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  1. #201
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    Gottaloveit! Everything revolving keeps evolving! I can hardly wait for my new Rabbit Holes to get here. I liked the early reviews I read on the 29+ Bombolonis. If Chupacabras had been as easily obtainable, I might have gotten those. Tires wear out, and by next year, there should be a bunch of new interesting choices. I'm curious about the new Vee 29" Bulldozer. Supposed to be 3.25" wide! That's almost as wide as a 26" FBN on a Marge Lite, which measures about 3.35" (+/- .02" depending on the pressure).
    Talk about bridging the gap!

  2. #202
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    My LBS here on the coast was able to order me a new SS Pugsley, even though he's not an Intergalactic Surly dealer. The proprietor called QBP and they had 4 of them in the Salt Lake City warehouse. I had him order one (size L) yesterday. This will be Pugs #2 for me. I'm going to try to keep the new sparkly "purple duck" as light as I can achieve at a reasonable cost.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlutonicPlague View Post
    Gottaloveit! Everything revolving keeps evolving! I can hardly wait for my new Rabbit Holes to get here. I liked the early reviews I read on the 29+ Bombolonis. If Chupacabras had been as easily obtainable, I might have gotten those. Tires wear out, and by next year, there should be a bunch of new interesting choices. I'm curious about the new Vee 29" Bulldozer. Supposed to be 3.25" wide! That's almost as wide as a 26" FBN on a Marge Lite, which measures about 3.35" (+/- .02" depending on the pressure).
    Talk about bridging the gap!
    Mike C had stock in Chupas when I needed some. He was fast and easy to deal with. Decent price.

    Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Mike C snip.... He was fast and easy to deal with..snip

    Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels
    Not if you live in Alaska.
    ptarmigan hardcore

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    Not if you live in Alaska.
    He doesn't like Alaskans?

    If it's just the shipping issue I feel no pity for you as I am from the land that can't get cheap stuff....Canada.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  6. #206
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    Thanks, Vik. Good info. I have been trying to buy my bike stuff at my LBS whenever possible. In spite of relatively low volume sales (compared to other areas with more population), the proprietor does his best to keep his prices competitive. LaVogue Bicycles in Hoquiam, WA is 100% brick-and-mortar (actual historic brick building), and is the only full-service bike shop in the Twin Harbors on the WA coast. I do my best to help keep it going!
    They are Giant and Trek dealers. I thought that I saw a 26 x 4 Bomboloni on a bike there last week. Was I dreaming? Did I imagine it? Whatever it was that I saw, it looked impressive.
    I have 38mm X 700c Vittoria Randonneur Touring tires on my SS road bike, and I love em! They are an older tread design, and I picked em up cheap on The Clymb about 2 or 3years ago.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    He doesn't like Alaskans?

    If it's just the shipping issue I feel no pity for you as I am from the land that can't get cheap stuff....Canada.
    Easy to deal with part. Just my $.02 whatevs many seem to like him.
    ptarmigan hardcore

  8. #208
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    Picked up my new rabbit hole wheelset last weekend. Also tried the Fat B Nimble 29x3.0. No monkey nuts needed, enough clearance at the seattube with the FBN. I guess I own a krampug now.

    Before:




    After:









  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickevers View Post

    Nice!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickevers View Post
    Picked up my new rabbit hole wheelset last weekend. Also tried the Fat B Nimble 29x3.0. No monkey nuts needed, enough clearance at the seattube with the FBN. I guess I own a krampug now.

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    Nice looking rig!

  11. #211
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    ^^Yes, thats a clean lookin' machine!

    My krampug wheels and assorted parts arrived here before the weekend (had other goings on... had to ignore the new bike parts), except for the Alfine hub's Small Parts Kit, which is being shipped today (and maybe arrive tomorrow afternoon). Rain due here tomorrow, so I am going to finish mowing my lawn and doing yard clean up this afternoon. I'll rubber up the Rabbit Holes this evening, and be ready to put 'em on my Pugsley as soon as I get the Alfine cassette installed on my hub.
    I'd better get outside and whip off that couple of remaining hours of lawn/yard care, so that I can go for a ride later.

  12. #212
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    Very nice!

    My KramPug is going on a diet next month.

    I need to rebuild the front wheel symmetrically with a 100 mm hub, install 29er carbon fork, carbon bars, carbon stem, and carbon seatpost.

    I thought of going with 1x10 drive train, but why spend the money when a 1x9 drive train with a 12-36 cassette should suffice? Then, I will call it good enough.

  13. #213
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    Can someone give me information about 100 mm pugsley's fork?

  14. #214
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    Has anybody done a 27.5+ wheel on one of these KramPugs? Any reason why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.

    Benefits might include retaining BB height closer to stock, no or little increase in stand over height. Thoughts? Examples?

  15. #215
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    @native29er,
    The Pugs rear wheel is laced offset, don't know if there are and 27.5 rims that can handle offset lacing and still get good spoke tension.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by efuss View Post
    @native29er,
    The Pugs rear wheel is laced offset, don't know if there are and 27.5 rims that can handle offset lacing and still get good spoke tension.
    Hmm. Well, with this input, I went pouring through the information on Sheldon Brown regarding wheel building. I'm not finding any information regarding offset lacing. What does that refer to anyways? Link? Explanation?

    Anybody else want to weigh in on the 27.5 proposition? Or have an example of a Krampug 27.5+ build?

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by native29er View Post
    Hmm. Well, with this input, I went pouring through the information on Sheldon Brown regarding wheel building. I'm not finding any information regarding offset lacing. What does that refer to anyways? Link? Explanation?

    Anybody else want to weigh in on the 27.5 proposition? Or have an example of a Krampug 27.5+ build?
    The rear end of the Pugs is offset 17.5mm to the right side of the bike. So the wheel has to be moved the same distance to the left to stay centered on the frame/rider.

    If you use a rim like the Rabbit Hole 29+ that has spoke holes offset to one side you avoid having to use spoke tensions that are very different which allows you to build a stronger wheel.



    ^^^ centered spokes holes on 17.5mm offset bike



    ^^^ centered spoke holes on non-offset bike



    ^^^ 7mm offset spokes on 17.5mm offset bike

    These are just calcs I had done in the past. You can input the specific parts you are contemplating using and get results that speak to your plans.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  18. #218
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    Cool Vik, that's an exceptionally sweet software! (I went into medicine and found out late in life that I should have been an engineer!) What is this software and where can I find it? I'm going to go down this rabbit hole (pun intended) and see where it leads me.

    Also, having mastered the Floyd Rose trem and tuning a few hundred guitars in my day, I feel like I might be uniquely suited to give some wheel building a shot!

    So, if I am to understand this correctly, offset is just another word for dishing? Isn't dishing the norm for rear hubs anyways? Or are we talking about a significant dish that might be difficult to keep appropriately centered over the hub? I can see that having asymmetrical hub flanges might play a role in this as well.

    Vik, as a wheel builder yourself do you see any apparent evidence why this shouldn't be possible?

    Also, does the Pugsley frame bow at the top of the seat stays/fork to allow extra width there as opposed to lower on the seatstay/fork? That would be a real deal breaker!

  19. #219
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    No, offset isn't the same as dishing.


  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by native29er View Post
    Cool Vik, that's an exceptionally sweet software! (I went into medicine and found out late in life that I should have been an engineer!) What is this software and where can I find it? I'm going to go down this rabbit hole (pun intended) and see where it leads me.

    Also, having mastered the Floyd Rose trem and tuning a few hundred guitars in my day, I feel like I might be uniquely suited to give some wheel building a shot!

    So, if I am to understand this correctly, offset is just another word for dishing? Isn't dishing the norm for rear hubs anyways? Or are we talking about a significant dish that might be difficult to keep appropriately centered over the hub? I can see that having asymmetrical hub flanges might play a role in this as well.

    Vik, as a wheel builder yourself do you see any apparent evidence why this shouldn't be possible?

    Also, does the Pugsley frame bow at the top of the seat stays/fork to allow extra width there as opposed to lower on the seatstay/fork? That would be a real deal breaker!
    Freespoke

    ^^ Free software

    A non-offset wheel is still dished so they are two separate descriptors that are not synonymous.

    Look at the spoke tension balance in the diagrams I posted to see why using a rim with centered spoke holes on a Pugs is not desirable.

    It is certainly possible to build a wheel with a large difference in spoke tension on each side. Whether or not you'll be happy with the result is the question.

    I've built 1 set of wheels myself. I have had many sets built to my specs by expert wheel builders. If it was my bike I would not spend the $$ for a custom wheelset on a Pugs unless the rim had offset spoke holes. I also wouldn't go the 27+ route I prefer the taller 29+ wheel.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by native29er View Post

    So, if I am to understand this correctly, offset is just another word for dishing? Isn't dishing the norm for rear hubs anyways? Or are we talking about a significant dish that might be difficult to keep appropriately centered over the hub? I can see that having asymmetrical hub flanges might play a role in this as well.
    Not quite. You are missing something fundamental about the Pugsley, and as far as I know, no other production bike. Just the Pugsley.

    Literally, the entire hub is laced on the right-hand side of the wheel. The Surly rim (I have Marge Lites) has two rows of spoke holes, so 64 spoke holes total.

    With a Pugsley offset wheel, you only use the spokes on one side of the rim. Your spoke tension is even (not dished any differently than a normal disc wheel) and your rim is level and everything, it just has about an inch hanging over the side. This sticks the cassette body waaaaay out to the drive-side, so your chain doesn't hit.

    See below:



    When you lace a symmetrical wheel, like for a Surly Moonlander, you alternate spoke holes on either side of the wheel, like the rim closest to the camera here. This is my front wheel, which on the new Pugsleys is symmetrical due to a Moonlander front fork:




    This solution is elegant in its unnerving complexity. Because of the offset, Surly doesn't need a 170mm hub or wider in the back. They can use traditional 135mm hubs. This accounts for the "offset" bend in the chainstays/seatstays of a Pugsley. Looks like the bike is shimmying to the right.

    The alternative, a super-wide hub, didn't exist when the Pugsley was first designed around 2008(?). Today, the symmetrical hubs are a slightly neater solution, but many people (like me!) love the use of a 135mm hub, for two reasons:

    One, they are widely available. The rim is the only thing different on an offset wheel, so any standard 135mm rear hub works, from Shimano XT to Hope Pro 2.

    Second, if you spring for the Pugsley offset fork, which used to be a standard on the bike, you can build a second offset rear wheel and stick it in your fork. That lets you run two rear wheels on the same bike, swappable at will. If your freehub freezes, you can have a fixed gear hub in the front waiting for its time to shine. Great "Oh Shit!" option for long-distance tourists.



    To lace a Surly properly, they make a special spoke wrench that helps account for the 17.5mm offset. I don't build wheels or know how to use it, but I bought one out of fear that the part would go extinct before my bike did:

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  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdilthey View Post
    To lace a Surly properly, they make a special spoke wrench that helps account for the 17.5mm offset. I don't build wheels or know how to use it, but I bought one out of fear that the part would go extinct before my bike did:

    ^^^ that isn't a spoke wrench. It's a spacer you use to center the wheel in your truing stand.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    ^^^ that isn't a spoke wrench. It's a spacer you use to center the wheel in your truing stand.
    Shows how much I know! Thanks for the info!

    Edit: The ramifications of this are bigger than I immediately realized. I do understand the basics of truing a wheel, so I should actually carry this little doo-hickey with me while touring so I can pop into a local bike shop and true up a wheel in their truing stand, if need be. Much more useful than I immediately realized.

    Thanks!
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  24. #224
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    I heard the WTB asym i35 would workout.. I'm lookin in to it...

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    Max! Hey, it's Andy (Reefteck), frequent reader and comment-er on your blog.

    Vik, Max, you guys, this has been enormously helpful and educational! The software, the pictures, all of this really drove home all the ideas behind this 29+ deal. I trust this will be helpful to others as well.

    Although this notion started off as a mere curiosity, I think I've managed to elicit some great input from you guys here and some good ideas and benefits for the 29+.

    I'm looking to secure a Pugsley frameset in the next few months. One topic that I haven't seen addressed, is how these 29+ conversions effect the stand over height? I'm nominally suited for a medium Pugsley (18" frame), should I be considering a small? What do we know with that regard?

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimbean mcgee View Post
    I heard the WTB asym i35 would workout.. I'm lookin in to it...
    I have a few hundred miles on an asym rear/mulefut front (courtesy of mikesee). Original plan was for a mulefut rear with a second set of spoke holes drilled in it, but that didn't work out. So far so good. I like that it will let me run a largeish 29er tire in the rear if I want something lighter. I don't like that it doesn't have cutouts for an orange rimstrip

    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCuse View Post
    I have a few hundred miles on an asym rear/mulefut front (courtesy of mikesee). Original plan was for a mulefut rear with a second set of spoke holes drilled in it, but that didn't work out. So far so good. I like that it will let me run a largeish 29er tire in the rear if I want something lighter. I don't like that it doesn't have cutouts for an orange rimstrip

    Nice. Looks good.thanks

  28. #228
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    Can you run 3" tires on that wheel AlexCuse?

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by native29er View Post
    Max! Hey, it's Andy (Reefteck), frequent reader and comment-er on your blog.

    Vik, Max, you guys, this has been enormously helpful and educational! The software, the pictures, all of this really drove home all the ideas behind this 29+ deal. I trust this will be helpful to others as well.

    Although this notion started off as a mere curiosity, I think I've managed to elicit some great input from you guys here and some good ideas and benefits for the 29+.

    I'm looking to secure a Pugsley frameset in the next few months. One topic that I haven't seen addressed, is how these 29+ conversions effect the stand over height? I'm nominally suited for a medium Pugsley (18" frame), should I be considering a small? What do we know with that regard?
    What's going on, dude!

    I would trust the WTB Asym i35 with a 3 inch tire. It'll still balloon more than a rabbit hole, but I don't think it's any risk. I'm using a 3" tire on an Easton Arc 30 and that's almost too small, but it's fine.

    I would avoid the WTB Asym i29, that seems a bit too narrow. Wider is better.

    As for standover, it's gonna get higher. No experience there, but my general experience tells me it likely wouldn't be too much higher than the standover on my CX bike, and I can still bail on that okay without losing my future kids. Some people care about traffic lights and rest stops for standover, I don't. I don't care what the top tube is doing.
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  30. #230
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    @native29er, I have two Pugsleys, both are size L.

    One is setup on 65mm Marge Lite rims with 4" (actually, closer to 3 9/16") Halo Nanuk tires set at 6#F and 7.5# R.
    My other Pugs is a SS that I converted to a 29+ KramPugs on Rabbit Holes, shod with 3" Bombolonis, pumped to 10.5#F and`12#R.
    A quick measuring of each bike's top tube from the floor, taken with a wooden yardstick held vertically in front of the BB, shows a difference of approximately 3/4" in height. (29+ RHs taller, of course). This may vary from other similar comparisons, due to differences in tire casing size, inflation, etc.
    But 3/4" taller is a good general ballpark number.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlutonicPlague View Post
    @native29er, I have two Pugsleys, both are size L.

    One is setup on 65mm Marge Lite rims with 4" (actually, closer to 3 9/16") Halo Nanuk tires set at 6#F and 7.5# R.
    My other Pugs is a SS that I converted to a 29+ KramPugs on Rabbit Holes, shod with 3" Bombolonis, pumped to 10.5#F and`12#R.
    A quick measuring of each bike's top tube from the floor, taken with a wooden yardstick held vertically in front of the BB, shows a difference of approximately 3/4" in height. (29+ RHs taller, of course). This may vary from other similar comparisons, due to differences in tire casing size, inflation, etc.
    But 3/4" taller is a good general ballpark number.
    Wow, well there ya go!

    That's less than I imagined. I had figured 26" rim on 4" rubber (assuming the tires are about as tall as they are wide) = 30" so therefore a 29" rim + 3" rubber = 32" (32-30=2" change in standover). As you've said here, that's not the case at all! But of course, I guess the "29er" is actually closer to 28" diameter anyways isn't it?

    Thanks for including tire pressures as well, that can make a BIG difference. On my Blackborow, idk about height, but the difference between 15psi and 10psi was nearly 5mm on the chainstay clearance! I'm sure it had an effect on the standover as well!
    Last edited by native29er; 01-23-2016 at 10:39 AM. Reason: spelling :/

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by native29er View Post
    Can you run 3" tires on that wheel AlexCuse?
    Yes, thats a chupacabra on there and it rounds out some but rides pretty well. No noticeable squirm unless pressure gets way low (10 psi or so).
    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  33. #233
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    Anyone built a 29er Rabbit Hole with Alfine yet? Was messing around with Freespoke last night and with the 17.5mm offset it was quoting 100% / 60% spoke tension. Will that ratio build a strong enough wheel??

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssexBoyUK View Post
    Anyone built a 29er Rabbit Hole with Alfine yet? Was messing around with Freespoke last night and with the 17.5mm offset it was quoting 100% / 60% spoke tension. Will that ratio build a strong enough wheel??
    That's not great spoke tension. I wouldn't do it myself.

    That combo of offset rim and IGH and Pugs doesn't play super well together.

    If you were light and a graceful rider it could work. If you were a cylde and hammered your bike I'd definitely skip it.
    Safe riding,

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  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That's not great spoke tension. I wouldn't do it myself.

    That combo of offset rim and IGH and Pugs doesn't play super well together.

    If you were light and a graceful rider it could work. If you were a cylde and hammered your bike I'd definitely skip it.
    I wasn't too taken with it either. Probably go 1x9 or 10 instead.
    I'm a graceful rider (obviously!) but not too light. Also thinking about riding with luggage as well so would want something that wouldn't give me mild paranoia every time I went out!

    Cheers

    Chris

  36. #236
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    Been enjoying riding the KramPug on the coast over the last few weeks as a month long experiment to see how good 29+ is for coastal riding, this includes sandy singletrack, low tide exposed greasy rocks as well as hard sand and dunes.

    Been doing this as so many folk ask if they really need a 4" or 5" fat if they only visit the coast a few times a year, i usually tell em a 29+ bike like a Krampus/ECR etc will be fine but if then can afford it get a fatbike that can take 29+ and enjoy both!

    This winter the coast has been very firm under foot/tyre,i think due to all the wet weather we have experianced here in the UK, anyway the 29" concept has coped well with only the real soft dunes causing leg burn, and less traction so not as good or easy as 4" tyres, but way nicer to ride to and from the coast on the road and trails

    I usually ride them at 12 psi on my gauge and lowered them a few times down to 9 and 10 psi to try through the dunes. At the lower pressures there is a big improvement (as expected) on soft sand and more grip on loose shells and rocks but the Chronicles that are split tube ghetto tubless feel a bit squirmy on the side walls at the lowered pressures when cornering on firmer ground,

    Getting rebuilt is my old original Pug that can also take my 29+ wheels

    Still not sure if i will keep the Krampus and ECR now long term now i have a this new framed Pugsley with the nice looking new offset fork,
    As i have always shouted about you get two bikes in one with loads of mud clearance and being a fatbike with 100mm BB you can use a wider framebag
    They both may get split and sold so i can keep an Alfine 29+ wheel set and Jones loop bars for the old Pugs
    I also may see about building a Wednesday as a 5" tyre dune surfer to replace my missed Moonlander,
    Pugs will still my favourite anyhows!


    bikes, Jan 2016 005 by Bruce, on Flickr

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    Works componants oval 32t ring works fine with front mech on my 3x9 with bashring instead of outer too
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    And a perfect trail bike...


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    Definitly my favourite bike of all time!
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  37. #237
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    Has anyone with a Kampugs ridden a Jones +? Everyone that has the Jones seems to give the bike great praise, just wonder if there is much difference in ride quality when compared with the Pugs conversion.

    Thanks

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by native29er View Post
    Wow, well there ya go!

    That's less than I imagined. I had figured 26" rim on 4" rubber (assuming the tires are about as tall as they are wide) = 30" so therefore a 29" rim + 3" rubber = 32" (32-30=2" change in standover). As you've said here, that's not the case at all! But of course, I guess the "29er" is actually closer to 28" diameter anyways isn't it?

    Thanks for including tire pressures as well, that can make a BIG difference. On my Blackborow, idk about height, but the difference between 15psi and 10psi was nearly 5mm on the chainstay clearance! I'm sure it had an effect on the standover as well!
    A 26" x 4" tire is close to 29" diameter or a little less depending on tire brand. Not sure what a 29x3 tire diameter is but I think it's less than 31". One thing to remember, when you are figuring out the standover height difference between two different diameter wheels, the final amount is only half of the difference between the two diameters, not the full difference.

    If one wheel is 29" and the other is 31", that's a 2" difference in diameter, which will give you a 1" difference in standover height, not 2". That's because the tire is not 2" taller on one side of the wheel, it's 1" taller all the way around the wheel and only one end of the wheel is on the ground. The top of the wheel being 1" higher doesn't effect standover height.

  39. #239
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    Anyone looking for a front wheel. I have a rabbit hole, surly (100mm) hub,knard and traxfatty....built for my ss that causes too much toe overlap (non-pugs frame).
    I should have built 27 or 27+

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  41. #241
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    Mr Pink, that is a beautiful ride. I love it!

  42. #242
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    I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the Krampug. I love my Pugsley, and would love to have a faster rolling tire for exploring.

    So, my question: Does anyone NOT like their Krampug's handling?
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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdilthey View Post
    I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the Krampug. I love my Pugsley, and would love to have a faster rolling tire for exploring.

    So, my question: Does anyone NOT like their Krampug's handling?
    Me too. I'm also interested in Knards vs. FBN vs. Maxxis Chronicles in the Krampug application. I'm leaning toward the Maxxis vs. the other two, based on what I've read so far. I have 4.0 Knards and FBN's. I really like the Knards for dry trail and pavement but I don't like them in any sort of mud.

  44. #244
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    I can answer on FBN and Chronicles.

    The FBN is a faster tire than my Chronicles, but the Chronicles I think are a better all around tire especially when setting up tubeless. The FBN has a weak sidewall compared to my Chronicles. I would also take a close look at Vittoria and their 29+ tires, I hear really good things about this tire and was very tempted but overall I mainly use Maxxis and Panaracer tires on all of my bikes.

    This bike is slower than my 29er SS which weighs about 20lbs compared to my Krampug which I imagine weighs about 30lbs as a SS maybe a little less. I am currently looking at a Sarma fork as soon as the 450 is available which I was told is about 2 months from now to lighten it up even more.

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  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdilthey View Post

    So, my question: Does anyone NOT like their Krampug's handling?
    If you already love the pugsley I don't see any reason you wouldn't love it with the 3" tires. It definitely rides a little taller but I like it - we have a lot of rocks out here and the extra cm or so is welcome when trying to pedal through them. I can see how the handling wouldn't be for everyone, but I really like it - my other bike is a karate monkey and its great in twisty stuff, but not incredibly stable through chunky terrain. The krampug setup feels a lot more stable through anything - not as stable as it feels with the fat wheels on but you can make up for that with extra speed. Grip with the chupacabras is better than I expected - doesn't feel like I'm losing much over the 26x4 knards I was running before (and actually like I gain a good bit in muddy or slick conditions), but the decrease in rotating mass is pretty huge. I was running the knards with tubes so its probably at least a pound a wheel - definitely enough to notice when climbing.

    The fact that its not a suspension corrected geometry is a plus for me but YMMV on that one - it just kinda feels right to me. I guess YMMV on all of them, but the others seem at least remotely quantifiable.
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  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCuse View Post
    If you already love the pugsley I don't see any reason you wouldn't love it with the 3" tires. It definitely rides a little taller but I like it - we have a lot of rocks out here and the extra cm or so is welcome when trying to pedal through them. I can see how the handling wouldn't be for everyone, but I really like it - my other bike is a karate monkey and its great in twisty stuff, but not incredibly stable through chunky terrain. The krampug setup feels a lot more stable through anything - not as stable as it feels with the fat wheels on but you can make up for that with extra speed. Grip with the chupacabras is better than I expected - doesn't feel like I'm losing much over the 26x4 knards I was running before (and actually like I gain a good bit in muddy or slick conditions), but the decrease in rotating mass is pretty huge. I was running the knards with tubes so its probably at least a pound a wheel - definitely enough to notice when climbing.

    The fact that its not a suspension corrected geometry is a plus for me but YMMV on that one - it just kinda feels right to me. I guess YMMV on all of them, but the others seem at least remotely quantifiable.
    Thank you. Thank you! This was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I love the geometry of the Pugsley, and I love the stable handling and "touring bike" feel. I don't want or need suspension or suspension correction, and I like riding over the rough-rooty and rocky areas where I live.

    I like the Pugs so much, I was primarily worried about the 29+ wheels/tires changing things. If the handling and steering quality is mostly similar, with an inch more BB height, I think that sounds pretty alright to me!
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  47. #247
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    Well, it's done. Just sold my 29er and dropped an absurd about of money for a 29+ wheelset. Decided it was better to go big or go home, so my tires are Maxxis Chronicle 120TPI's. Front wheel is the QBP Rabbit Hole x Surly Hub, and the rear wheel will be a handbuilt offset DT Swiss 350 x Rabbit Hole. Let's roll.
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  48. #248
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    I'm sure the KramPug option is great, with the roll-over factor and all that. I went the cheaper way and just installed 26x3" Knards on my 65mm rims. Tires have a nice round profile and the Pugs is suddenly a much faster creature. It does lower the BB a bit, leading to a few more pedal strokes when going through rocky bits. But it's not a big issue. Surly told me that several of their folks have gone that route. And for general riding and off-road touring it's great (except the 120psi - a bit thin..). More 26+ options will appear later this year, including from a leading manufactor.

  49. #249
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    Just finished setting up my Pugsley in full ECR mode...

    I committed bigtime. I sold my 29er, and funded a pair of 29+ wheels, a dropper post, and new handlebars for the Pugsley.



    Front wheel is the QBP-built 135mm Surly Ultra New hub laced to a Rabbit Hole. The rear hub is a DT Swiss 350 cassette hub laced to another Rabbit, with spacers and a 25T Endless cog, and an 18T Chris King cog for a dinglespeed setup with a huge range. Front chainrings are 24T and 31T.



    Also upgraded to Thomson Titanium bars and a GravityDropper Turbo LP seatpost, for 4" of drop. Loving both- the ride quality is outstanding between the cockpit and wheels. This Pugsley really moves now!



    I was surprised to find the following about the Krampug setup:

    1. I didn't notice any real difference in handling between the 26 Fat and 29+ wheelsets. This was a big question mark when I was having the wheels made, and I am very happy with the result. Handling is completely preserved, despite the larger diameter.

    2. I wasn't bothered much by the increase in standover height with the dropper seatpost. Small benefit!

    3. The bike is much faster, but the fat wheels are not spoiled for me. I can absolutely feel a difference in traction, absorption, flotation... I think both wheels will see about equal use.


    I really think the Krampug would have gotten a different nickname if the ECR was out when the Rabbit Holes launched. The bike really feels like a 29+ touring rig. I am very, very excited to take this bike out touring this summer, including on a big 30-day tour in Iceland with my girlfriend. It will see a lot of miles over the next three months.

    Full post on my new setup here: Max, The Cyclist
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  50. #250
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    I suggested PugslECR a few months back but nobody went for it. Makes a lot of sense.

    Have you ridden an ECR?

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdilthey View Post
    Well, it's done. Just sold my 29er and dropped an absurd about of money for a 29+ wheelset. Decided it was better to go big or go home, so my tires are Maxxis Chronicle 120TPI's. Front wheel is the QBP Rabbit Hole x Surly Hub, and the rear wheel will be a handbuilt offset DT Swiss 350 x Rabbit Hole. Let's roll.
    I have slighly the same build, only difference is I built the front wheel with the same hub and wheel just different spokes. I am using the 350 out back on the RH as a SS. Major changes I made was installed the rws thru bolt end caps and the 54t star ratchet upgrade, I would say the hub is about as loud and as smooth as my I9 SS hub.
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  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pink57 View Post
    I have slighly the same build, only difference is I built the front wheel with the same hub and wheel just different spokes. I am using the 350 out back on the RH as a SS. Major changes I made was installed the rws thru bolt end caps and the 54t star ratchet upgrade, I would say the hub is about as loud and as smooth as my I9 SS hub.
    Sorry, can you explain this? What are the rws thru bolt end caps, and how do they work with the QR dropout on the Pugsley?

    Thanks! Sounds intriguing- I'm totally interested.
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  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdilthey View Post
    Sorry, can you explain this? What are the rws thru bolt end caps, and how do they work with the QR dropout on the Pugsley?

    Thanks! Sounds intriguing- I'm totally interested.
    RWS:

    https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Overview?cat=RWS

    I have a set of standard MTB skewers to replace my QR skewers. They make a whole ton of axle options depending on what hubs and dropouts you are using. I'm guessing they have end caps that can swap into their hubs ALA king depending on what you need.

  54. #254
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    I get it. That's awesome! Easy upgrade.
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  55. #255
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    After several months of mulling over 'which off road bike?' and trying to decide over Pug or ECR I had a sudden rush of blood at the weekend and ordered a Pug frame. Also managed to pick up a bargain set of Rabbit Holes of fleabay together with an Echo rear fixed hub for the front wheel.
    So I will be joining the Krampug club very soon!! once I get the rest of the build together. Already have a spare Alfine kicking around the back of the shed which I'm going to use together with a selection of stems, bars and other bits and pieces.
    Will be going for the Mr Pink colour scheme of green frame and blue rim tape. Updates to follow.......

  56. #256
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    Morning All
    Just thinking about tyres and general consensus seems to be Chupacabra or Chronicles. Probably will go for Chronicles which CoastKid seems to like for general UK conditions.
    Can someone tell me the real world difference between the 60 psi and 120 psi. Would like to know what I'm getting for the £20+ difference in price.

    Cheers

    Chris

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssexBoyUK View Post
    Morning All
    Just thinking about tyres and general consensus seems to be Chupacabra or Chronicles. Probably will go for Chronicles which CoastKid seems to like for general UK conditions.
    Can someone tell me the real world difference between the 60 psi and 120 psi. Would like to know what I'm getting for the £20+ difference in price.

    Cheers

    Chris
    120 TPI is a lighter and more supple casing. Rolls faster, feels nicer. The 60TPI might be a little tougher, but I always found punctures to be a bit "on-off." You either get a nail/thorn busting through any TPI, or you don't get a puncture with either tire type.

    I have the Chronicles and I like them a lot.
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  58. #258
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    Great cycle yesterday on the KramPug with my friend riding my Krampus,
    big hills hard climbs and great descents and a cold war ROC bunker explore too

    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  59. #259
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    Anybody have any numbers regarding weight savings with a rabbit hole 29+ setup from a Marge Lite setup? I currently have a Pug SS running tubeless with FBNs on Marge Lites. I'm right at 30 lbs now. I'm using the bike for mixed commuting and dry trail duty. Reducing a bit of rotating mass would probably knock me off the fence.

  60. #260
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    No numbers, but I recall that the rims weigh about the same. Spokes for the 29+ probably weigh a little more than the shorter spokes for 26, and the rest depends on the relative weight of the tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chinman View Post
    Anybody have any numbers regarding weight savings with a rabbit hole 29+ setup from a Marge Lite setup? I currently have a Pug SS running tubeless with FBNs on Marge Lites. I'm right at 30 lbs now. I'm using the bike for mixed commuting and dry trail duty. Reducing a bit of rotating mass would probably knock me off the fence.

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chinman View Post
    Anybody have any numbers regarding weight savings with a rabbit hole 29+ setup from a Marge Lite setup? I currently have a Pug SS running tubeless with FBNs on Marge Lites. I'm right at 30 lbs now. I'm using the bike for mixed commuting and dry trail duty. Reducing a bit of rotating mass would probably knock me off the fence.
    From Surly's website:

    RH Rim = 699g
    Knard 29+ = 980g [120tpi]

    Marge Lite = 690g
    Knard 3.8" = 1256g [120tpi]

    I'd say spokes and hub are a wash. So running the same model tires difference for each wheel is ~270g. Plug your FBN tire weight and prefered 29+ tire in to get the difference for that combo.
    Safe riding,

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  62. #262
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    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  63. #263
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    Yeah, what vikb said ^^^. I temporarily got unlazy and removed my front 29+ RH with a Bomboloni, and grabbed my front Marge Lite with a mounted Knard 120tpi (this came stock on my Pugsly SS), and then weighed myself on a new digital bathroom scale. Then, I weighed myself again holding each wheel. I did that three times each.
    I have the same Surly hub on each, and same gage spokes, but I have tubes in my wheels.
    I don't have the weight for the tubes, but I'll bet that the 29+ tube is lighter than the 26" fat tube.
    The Marge Lite/Knard weighed 7.5 lbs.
    The Rabbit Hole/Bombo weighed 6.5lbs.
    This scale is probably not as precise as some other digital scales, but since I used the same scale, that probably cancels out any precision errors.

  64. #264
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    Sold the ECR frame set and with the money bought a Snowblind white Pugsley frame set, another Alfine 8 spd IGH, Marge Lite fat rims,
    Powder coated egg yellow/orange.
    After off setting the rear Rabbit hole wheel and sharing the front when from my other 2 x9 geared option now have a Alfine 8 spd/ Jones 710mm Loop bar KramPug bike for camping/big days out, waiting on spokes to arrive to lace up a 4" Fat wheel option for the bike too

    Surly KramPug build; Pt 2 of 2 042 by Bruce, on Flickr
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  65. #265
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    Great color!

    I'm always looking for that perfect shade between orange and yellow and I think you've found it.

    Happen to know the RAL number by chance?

    More pics too...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  66. #266
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    Love that colour Coastkid. How many Pugs do you have now? 4?

    Can you tell me what size chainring you reckon you could fit with Alfine chain line? I have a 110bcd crank I'm hoping to use when I get round to putting mine together but smallest chain ring I can get is 34t.

  67. #267
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    Hey EssexBoyUK, I am now running a 30t chainring and 20t cog on my Krampugs (switched from 30t/22t), and I really like the slightly higher gearing. In particular, I like the higher top end, and the low gear doesn't at all feel too high, and I'm just an old geezer with a funky heart and bird legs.
    You might want to try 34t/23t, since thats a wee tad lower than my 30t/20t. You might think that it feels right.

    Chainline shouldn't be a problem, what with the skinny 29+ x 3" tires in a Pugsley frame. You can always try flipping the cog on the Alfine.
    Last edited by PlutonicPlague; 07-02-2016 at 12:33 PM.

  68. #268
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    Wore out my chupacabras and replaced with dirt wizards. Did a 50 mile ride through various game lands over the weekend. I think I put them on just in time cause there were several miles of this:



    I already got one hole in the sidewall. It was long after trail had disappeared, and I noticed it after clearing a rock garden I really had no business attempting. Sealed up OK with a plug.



    Despite the tissue paper sidewalls these are probably my favorite tires ever. I may try the 60 tpi version next time but depends how many more plugs I have to use. First time I rode the chupas I had to put in a plug within about 3 miles, and they held up fine for hundreds of miles after that. /crosses fingers
    Last edited by AlexCuse; 07-19-2016 at 02:10 PM.
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  69. #269
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    Unexpected issue: I spent $$$ building up a DT 350 rear wheel for the 26" set, and now I don't ever want to take the 29" set off my bike... My fat wheels are gathering dust...
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  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdilthey View Post
    Unexpected issue: I spent $$$ building up a DT 350 rear wheel for the 26" set, and now I don't ever want to take the 29" set off my bike... My fat wheels are gathering dust...
    Winter is coming.
    But I just ruined it for the 16-17 season. Just bought new tele skis and boots. Apologies in advance. You might never use your fatties again.

  71. #271
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    I need some motivation from happy Krampug owners. I picked up a used Pugsley last week. I already have a Wednesday that I really love, so my thought was to convert the Pugsley to a Krampug with the QBP wheels. I'm having second thoughts, though. The wheels alone will cost more than I paid for the Pugs and by the time I'm done, I'll be looking at a total outlay of $1300 or so. Would I be better off putting that towards a Krampus? I guess it depends on what I intend to do with the bike. Having the Wednesday, I don't see ever going back to the 26" fat wheels on the Pugsley. I think the "expedition" oriented geometry of the Pugsley with the 29+ wheels is a good thing for me. The 100mm wide BB is a negative on paper, at least. Any other thoughts?

    TL,DR: If I am never going to run the Pugsley as a fatbike, is there any advantage of a Krampug over a real Krampus?

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post

    TL,DR: If I am never going to run the Pugsley as a fatbike, is there any advantage of a Krampug over a real Krampus?
    I faced the same choice. I decided to sell the Pugs and get a Krampus. I wanted the Krampus geo, narrower q-factor and ability to run a modern suspension fork.

    If I had a need/desire for a fatbike I might have kept it or bought a ICT/Wed and got two wheel sets for it.

    3yrs later I don't regret my choice. The Krampus is a great bike for my needs.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    I need some motivation from happy Krampug owners. I picked up a used Pugsley last week. I already have a Wednesday that I really love, so my thought was to convert the Pugsley to a Krampug with the QBP wheels. I'm having second thoughts, though. The wheels alone will cost more than I paid for the Pugs and by the time I'm done, I'll be looking at a total outlay of $1300 or so. Would I be better off putting that towards a Krampus? I guess it depends on what I intend to do with the bike. Having the Wednesday, I don't see every going back to the 26" fat wheels on the Pugsley. I think the "expedition" oriented geometry of the Pugsley with the 29+ wheels is a good thing for me. The 100mm wide BB is a negative on paper, at least. Any other thoughts?

    TL,DR: If I am never going to run the Pugsley as a fatbike, is there any advantage of a Krampug over a real Krampus?
    Interesting question. I'm battling with CoastKid for the title of world's happiest Krampug owner, but I think it's gonna end in a tie.

    The main draw of the Krampug is that you have what equates to two bikes for the price of one and a half. The one bike, two wheelsets thing works great for me because my Pugs is my only fatbike, and my only 29+ bike (mostly used that way for bikepacking).

    In your case, since you seem happy with your Wednesday, I don't think you'll need the Pugsley to run fat. That's totally cool, the Wednesday is an awesome bike.

    As for the 29+ conversion, I actually recommend against it for you! Just sell that frame and buy a Krampus. The Pugsley's 29+ is interesting, but not better than the Krampus if it's dedicated only to 29+. The high BB is kind of cool, but the geo of the Krampus is very fun and I think you'll really enjoy it.

    From a cost-effectiveness perspective, the Krampus/Wednesday combo makes a lot more sense to me than buying all the components for a Pugsley at $1300+++ just to use it as a Krampus/ECR. That Krampug will never, ever disappoint you... but it's not any better than a real Krampus, which is a better buy for you.

    Of course, if you were feeling very rowdy, you could go all in like I did and sell your Wednesday and use the Pugs as your only bike. If you think that might appeal to you, consider it - it's made me very happy that way. I have a strong feeling that's not gonna be the best path for you.
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  74. #274
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    Thanks for the quick responses! Max- I figured you'd argue for the Krampug. Thanks for the honest opinion.

    The Wednesday is staying. I love that bike. The thing that would make the most sense would be to get a set of 29+ wheels for that bike. However, I like it the way it's set up and don't want to mess with it. I have a Bluto on it, which really jacks the BB up. It's OK with the 26 fat wheels, but I am hesitant to go 29+. 27.5+ would probably be ideal.

    I may wait and see what the changes for the new Krampus will be. One thing that the Pugs has going for it is the 72 degree seat tube. I like slack seat tubes. Very few bikes have less than 73 deg STA. The old Krampus is 72.5. If they steepen that, it's off the table for me.

  75. #275
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    My girlfriend Kelley is looking at getting a Wednesday this christmas. I'm glad to hear you like yours so much. We were thinking about building 29+ wheels for it, but given what you're saying about the BB, maybe we'll just keep her Ogre as a touring bike and keep the Wednesday fat.
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  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdilthey View Post
    My girlfriend Kelley is looking at getting a Wednesday this christmas. I'm glad to hear you like yours so much. We were thinking about building 29+ wheels for it, but given what you're saying about the BB, maybe we'll just keep her Ogre as a touring bike and keep the Wednesday fat.
    The BB height is only a concern because I put a longer fork on it. With the stock fork, 29+ would have no issues.

  77. #277
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    I love my new Wednesday and the 100mm Q factor thing does not bother me at all, so much so i sold my Krampus as the Wednesday rides as wicked as the Krampus apart for a bit more drag from the 4" wheels. I plan to add a 27.5 HAlo wheel set and Bluto fork to it soon,

    Rolling daily now with my old Pugsley in KramPug mode, Alfine 8spd IGH and Jones loop bars, frame bag, makes it a do it all bike that has replaced my 29ers, i really love the bike!. high BB and IGH make it ideal for summer overgrown trails and riding harvested wheat and Barley fields here in SE Scotland

    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  78. #278
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    I really like the higher BB on the krampug setup as well. I run shorter cranks to try and offset the wide q-factor, between that and the height increase it feels like I can pedal through anything. I think I like the pugsley geometry better for the kind of riding I do as well - on paper it looks a lot like I'd imagine a 29er with minimal suspension correction. As always, YMMV. The offset rear wheel definitely adds a layer of hassle to the equation.

    I have gotten pretty attached to the 3" tires though, and I'm thinking about possibly replacing my singlespeed KM with a krampus or the new jabberwocky.
    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCuse View Post
    I really like the higher BB on the krampug setup as well. I run shorter cranks to try and offset the wide q-factor, between that and the height increase it feels like I can pedal through anything. I think I like the pugsley geometry better for the kind of riding I do as well - on paper it looks a lot like I'd imagine a 29er with minimal suspension correction. As always, YMMV. The offset rear wheel definitely adds a layer of hassle to the equation.

    I have gotten pretty attached to the 3" tires though, and I'm thinking about possibly replacing my singlespeed KM with a krampus or the new jabberwocky.
    See, this is the kind of thinking that got me going on this project.

    I think I have enough miles on my old Mukluk and the Wednesday to prove that the 100mm BB is not a problem in real life.

    I like the idea of the Krampug as a touring/expedition/JustRidingAround bike. I love the shredliness of the Wednesday, and I'm sure the Krampus is better than the Krampug in that department, but for touring? I don't know.

    With Surly's lack of being able to supply parts lately, and the winds of change going to 170/190/150 fatbike hub spacing, I'm thinking I need to pick up the 135/offset Rabbit hole wheels while they're available now, if I'm going to do this.

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    I love the shredliness of the Wednesday, and I'm sure the Krampus is better than the Krampug in that department, but for touring? I don't know.
    It really depends on what you consider "touring". As much as possible I'd prefer to tour singletrack and get shreddy. Sometimes dirt roads tours happen though.

    I'd pick a bike based on what you do most and use the bike you would prefer to ride for that mission. Then I would worry about adding the camping gear.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  81. #281
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    There's a 3rd option: 26x3" Knards, setting you back less than 200 bucks. I have them on my Pugsley that is built up for dirt touring, but I use it for trail riding as well. I also love the geo of the Pugsley - the long top tubes on the Krampus and Wednesday are not my thing.

    The 26x3 Knards will not give you the famed roll-over effect of the 29x3 options, but they will provide you with a much faster and lively Pugs - and great for most dirt touring in my experience (except the most technical). You will have to live with a lower BB, but that's not a big issue for my kind of touring. A shorter crank will diminish some of the issues with a lower BB and also be kinder to your knees....

    Unfortunately, the 26x3 Knards are only available in 120 TPI and paper thin side walls.

  82. #282
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    Think i am the only rider sticking up Harvest cycling online! poss because of Scotlands open access laws (Scotland the free and all that....)

    29th August; Harvest 007 by Bruce, on Flickr

    29th August; Harvest 023 by Bruce, on Flickr

    The KramPug has for 4 summers now proved a great harvest cycling rig!, Improved further this season with the Alfine 8 spd IGH, it`s running a 23t hub sprocket and 32t front its low enough for farm fields on hills and down them also, while no issues with straw jamming mechs

    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    It really depends on what you consider "touring". As much as possible I'd prefer to tour singletrack and get shreddy. Sometimes dirt roads tours happen though.

    I'd pick a bike based on what you do most and use the bike you would prefer to ride for that mission. Then I would worry about adding the camping gear.
    I'm going to agree with Vik on this one. I also agree that having a bike that is fun and lively makes for a lot more fun on tour. A lightly loaded Krampus would be a sick bikepacking rig, and Vik's blog is absolute proof of this.


    I pack light when I'm domestic, but if I tour overseas (like my 30-day Iceland trip), I pack a little bit more equipment and I often carry some extra tools/spares, and I am also sometimes pack-mule for my girlfriend so she can enjoy her ride as much as possible. In Iceland, I had about 30lbs of gear, approx. twice my normal load. The spare 29er tire, extra camping gas canister, WolfTooth Aluminum BB wrench (I swear, it's light!), and several tubes/patch kits/etc. accounted for most of the extra weight, but water and food storage did a number too.

    Long story short, I was VERY happy to have a high BB because it compensated my handling over rough terrain. That's to say, on a Krampus with 15lbs of gear, it's easy to move the bike around with a little body english. You can negotiate rough terrain better. The fully loaded Pugsley didn't like to move with all that weight, so thanks to the high BB, I could kind of "monster truck" my way over obstacles and compensate for a lack of skill and energy to make the heavy bike sing.

    It worked well, for awful F-roads. I was glad my BB was higher.
    Ultralight bikepacking and gear lists... MaxTheCyclist.com

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Think i am the only rider sticking up Harvest cycling online! poss because of Scotlands open access laws (Scotland the free and all that....)

    29th August; Harvest 007 by Bruce, on Flickr

    29th August; Harvest 023 by Bruce, on Flickr

    The KramPug has for 4 summers now proved a great harvest cycling rig!, Improved further this season with the Alfine 8 spd IGH, it`s running a 23t hub sprocket and 32t front its low enough for farm fields on hills and down them also, while no issues with straw jamming mechs

    Makes me want to come to Scotland for some krampugging...
    Ultralight bikepacking and gear lists... MaxTheCyclist.com

  85. #285
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    Quick question before I dig into it. Does anyone know if a stock Krampus rear wheel can be relaced to a Pugsley offset using all the same spokes? My guess is no, but maybe half of the spokes can be used?

    I see a lot of stock Krampus wheels for sale and I want to turn my Pugsley into a Krampugs, but I want to know how much it's going to cost me before I dive in.

    Thanks!

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69tr6r View Post
    Quick question before I dig into it. Does anyone know if a stock Krampus rear wheel can be relaced to a Pugsley offset using all the same spokes? My guess is no, but maybe half of the spokes can be used?

    I see a lot of stock Krampus wheels for sale and I want to turn my Pugsley into a Krampugs, but I want to know how much it's going to cost me before I dive in.

    Thanks!
    You can use a spoke calculator to find out for sure, but if I had to guess, I would say definitely not. But I am also not keen on reusing spokes or rims anyways, since lacing them up applies all kinds of mechanical stress. Start fresh.

  87. #287
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    Yes you can do it ok, i did it to a stock Krampus wheel with Shimano hub, also had a RH and Hope Pro 2 i moved from inline to offset for a Pug, then back to inline for a KM!
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Yes you can do it ok, i did it to a stock Krampus wheel with Shimano hub, also had a RH and Hope Pro 2 i moved from inline to offset for a Pug, then back to inline for a KM!
    Awesome, thanks!

  89. #289
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    Any idea if the Duro Crux 29x3.25 on Rabbit Hole rims will fit a Krampug?

  90. #290
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    Another quick (hopefully!) question: I'm messing around with Freespoke for a rear wheel build. If I use a Rabbit Hole rim and lace all the spokes to the same side, then I only need to account for a 10.5mm offset to get the required 17.5mm offset, right?

    SURLY KramPug thread...-spokes.jpg

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    Another quick (hopefully!) question: I'm messing around with Freespoke for a rear wheel build. If I use a Rabbit Hole rim and lace all the spokes to the same side, then I only need to account for a 10.5mm offset to get the required 17.5mm offset, right?
    No, you're doing it wrong. The spoke bed offset should be -5/5mm, and the hub offset remains the same at 17.5mm.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    No, you're doing it wrong. The spoke bed offset should be -5/5mm, and the hub offset remains the same at 17.5mm.
    Where do you get the -5/5 offset? The dimensions I've seen show the rim's spoke holes are 7mm off center. In any case, your method is cleaner, but gives the same result (assuming the spoke hole offset is correct).

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    Where do you get the -5/5 offset? The dimensions I've seen show the rim's spoke holes are 7mm off center. In any case, your method is cleaner, but gives the same result (assuming the spoke hole offset is correct).
    I had 5mm in my head. My bad. Yeah, inputting the spoke hole offset just means less chance of error to me. Good luck. I am going to be building my own set for the Pug sometime soon.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I had 5mm in my head. My bad. Yeah, inputting the spoke hole offset just means less chance of error to me. Good luck. I am going to be building my own set for the Pug sometime soon.
    Thanks. I think that both our methods arrive at the same spoke lengths proves it's correct.

  95. #295
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    Pugsley offset fork with straight legs?

    Can anybody comment on the 135 Pugsley fork, offset with straight legs? its QBP #FK0030. It says in the description "Offset forks have a straight blade that creates a 17.5mm offset which matches the Pugsley frame; this allows front/rear wheel interchangeability", but the photo is rather suspect looking. I imagine it is a stock photo and not 100% accurate, but I also cannot find info on it through surly's website.

    I will probably email the almighty beards as well to get feedback.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rides Bikes View Post
    Can anybody comment on the 135 Pugsley fork, offset with straight legs? its QBP #FK0030. It says in the description "Offset forks have a straight blade that creates a 17.5mm offset which matches the Pugsley frame; this allows front/rear wheel interchangeability", but the photo is rather suspect looking. I imagine it is a stock photo and not 100% accurate, but I also cannot find info on it through surly's website.

    I will probably email the almighty beards as well to get feedback.
    This page shows the offset:

    http://surlybikes.com/parts/forks/pugsley_fork

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    Right, but that is the bent leg with the offset. To the best of your knowledge has/does Surly make a fork with the offset AND a straight leg allowing for 2 rear wheels to be run on the bike?

  98. #298
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    Here is the new ltd offset fork, only 3 came to the UK, uses a standard front brake mount on a rear hub, looks almost like a symetrical fork and nicer than the old offset fork.
    24th Dec; Pugsley Frame swap 007 by Bruce, on Flickr

    29th May; Yellowcraig beachride 015 by Bruce, on Flickr

    24th Dec; Pugsley Frame swap 035 by Bruce, on Flickr



    Surly should have used this on all Pugsleys to allow revesrable wheels, be sp usefull for single speeders
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rides Bikes View Post
    Right, but that is the bent leg with the offset. To the best of your knowledge has/does Surly make a fork with the offset AND a straight leg allowing for 2 rear wheels to be run on the bike?
    Sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking. Coast kid knows what he's talking about.

  100. #300
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    @coastkid--- Thanks for the photo! G @ Surly got back to me as well with a link to the updated information. Still able to use standard rear hub, and no weird spacing issues with the disc brake? Both 4" and 29+" wheels work fine? What do you guess the max size tire would be to squeeze in the front? I've found that for what I realistically would do (snow commuting primarily) I don't need more than a 4"

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