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  1. #1
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    Stud Options for Dillinger 5 (unstudded)

    I have been searching and have not found answers to some of my questions.

    I have a set of unstudded Dillinger 5s on the way that I got a great deal on. I am now looking to buy allow-tungsten studs for them want to keep costs reasonable.

    What options are out there? As it stand, I am considering the following: 45nrth concave or XLs (althouht the XLs are too pricey); Terrene Triple Tractions; bikestud.com/9zero7/Chinese special (alloy-tungsten flat tip); Bontrager concave.

    Has anyone actually ridden both concave and flat tip studs in the same tire and can provide insights to compare? I am told that concave studs are much better.

    Has anyone tried the Bontrager concave studs in the Dillinger 5s? They look exactly like the 45nrth studs but are cheaper. I assume they would work fine in a Dillinger 5. The 225 pack seems like a great deal.

    I assume it will be better to run the full 258 studs per tire.

    I will be running these in variable conditions, when conditions warrant it (likely early season when awaiting more snow coverage; as well as late season when we have had multiple snow/thaw cycles).

    I appreciate any feedback.
    Cheers.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvautour View Post

    I assume it will be better to run the full 258 studs per tire.
    I'm going to jump right in here with a ever-so-slight thread hijack because I am going to be in the very same situation (studding up some unstudded D5s). I plan to use the 45NRTH Concave studs, but I am wondering more about pattern.

    For those who answer OP's (type of stud) question, could you also comment on pattern/# of studs used?

  3. #3
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    If you are going to stud them, then fully stud them. Saving a few $ could cost/hurt on an icy trail.

  4. #4
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    I have had the 45nrth tipped studs in a Dillinger 4 and I am now riding a Dillinger 5 with 45nrth concave studs. The concaved studs are way better so much better I pulled out the tipped studs in the 4s and replaced them with concave for my wife’s bike. And to answer to the other question no I would not skip any studs when doing a tire, with all the holes filled they are good but not great.

  5. #5
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    Another vote for max studs. They still spin out if you put the pedal down without your weight centered properly even with all the studs.

    It's kind of fun to put one leg down and pedal in place at stop lights though.

  6. #6
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    Whatever you do, do it quick. I'm finding out the hard way that there's a low stock of product if you have to order.
    Remember, nobody knows. So let's find out...

  7. #7
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    Is anyone running Bontrager concave studs in 45nrth tires? They seem identical to the 45nrth studs.

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    One hint, get the stud tool and put a drop of hand sanitizer on the back end before putting in the tire. After doing a whole v snowshoe, vowed never again. Ever.

  9. #9
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    I don't find the studded Dillinger as effective as I would like. I would get the Xl studs.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    I have had the 45nrth tipped studs in a Dillinger 4 and I am now riding a Dillinger 5 with 45nrth concave studs. The concaved studs are way better so much better I pulled out the tipped studs in the 4s and replaced them with concave for my wife’s bike. And to answer to the other question no I would not skip any studs when doing a tire, with all the holes filled they are good but not great.
    I am thinking of swapping some of my std studs for XLs. What did you use to remove the existing studs?

  11. #11
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    Stud tool takes them out the same way it installs them. Insert tool, bend the tool down at an angle and they should pop out.

    I'm going to pull many of mine and put a Dilligaf inspired spacer in to increase the protrusion of the stud from the lug.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  12. #12
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    ^^^Yup, just pulled all the studs from my D5's and installed them in the new Wrathchild's, a little water for lubricant helps with removal. They come out a lot easier than they go in, as mentioned above I'm not in a hurry to ever do it again!

    I looked into the Trek studs and was told by LBS that they will work in the 45nrth tires, unfortunately they couldn't get any until the new year.
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  13. #13
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    If you're riding pure ice -- like commuting on plowed streets -- then concave studs have a small advantage in traction.

    But if you're riding pure ice you'd be far, far, far better served by using a skinnier tire to exert more pressure on each stud.

    For most of us, riding hardpack snow with only occasional ice, any/every stud is going to work about the same.

  14. #14
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    I have not used the concave studs but have heard what mikesee has stated. I have used the pointy studs and they suck. They basically become round like a ballpoint pen. I took all those out and went with the standard flat tipped stud in my D5. I ran them that way all last year and they were great. I looked at the cost difference of the bikestud flats vs 45’s concave and based on feedback of negligible traction differences I save about $100 in stud costs and went flat.

    However I now have a set of D4s and I put Terrene triple whatever’s in the outside most lugs and flat tip in the rest. I am hoping the smaller footprint and sharper stud will result in better pure ice traction. MN gets lots of ice late season so studs are a must. The Terrene studs are significantly sharper and longer then the flat tip. I have not used them yet so can’t say how well they work.

    If I were to do another set of tires I would Look at either the terrene or flat tips as options. Not the concave.

  15. #15
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    Thanks to all for the feedback. I ended up finding a somewhat local shop that has the Bontrager aluminium-tungsten concave studs in stock, so I got them. Planning to run full studs in the Dillinger 5s. I will install the stud with spacers from the onset as suggested by Dilligaf. I am not looking forward to the chore, but the savings are worth it.

  16. #16
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    Stud the middle rows first. That way if your hand gets too tired you can still ride with working studs. You might even find the center rows are enough depending on how you ride. It is easy to go back and put more studs in. Might have to pick out some debrii from a few holes but that isn't usually a big deal.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    One hint, get the stud tool and put a drop of hand sanitizer on the back end before putting in the tire.
    The theory being the hand sanitizer lubricates but then evaporates. I like it! Did one Gnarwhal (216 studs) using drops of water. Thanks for the tip...
    Remember, nobody knows. So let's find out...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If you're riding pure ice -- like commuting on plowed streets -- then concave studs have a small advantage in traction.

    But if you're riding pure ice you'd be far, far, far better served by using a skinnier tire to exert more pressure on each stud.

    For most of us, riding hardpack snow with only occasional ice, any/every stud is going to work about the same.
    My experience is the same. Had two pair of IRC Mud Max tires that were factory studded back in the day. They stuck ice much better than my D5s with concave studs did. Interestingly they were front and rear specific tires the rear had center line studs and the front tires were on the sides. Tire width was 1.9 or 2.0? I de-studded my D5s and stay away from ice as much as is possible.

    urmb
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by urmb View Post
    I de-studded my D5s and stay away from ice as much as is possible.

    urmb

    Why de-stud? Is there any disadvantage (besides the minuscule weight penalty) to having studs when they are not needed?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gartenmeister View Post
    Why de-stud? Is there any disadvantage (besides the minuscule weight penalty) to having studs when they are not needed?
    Resistance from riding on paved roads is why. If I only rode on snow and ice I wouldn't have de-studded them. One of my favorite rides has a bout a mile climb on a road. The snow melts off the road in March, so we are climbing on pavement. Also, I do not like riding on rocks with studs. My fatty will see some rocks and dirt too. urmb
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  21. #21
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    I just ordered some 45nrth XL studs to upgrade some of the studs on my older D4's. I found them in stock at Eric's for $44/100pcs.

  22. #22
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    Excuse my crankiness but I'm cranky.

    I had a set of D5's warrantied because the studs seated into the pockets too far with low mileage. LBS and 45N must have agreed with me.

    The second set has 500 miles? I wanted more bite on ice so I got some 1/32 rubber gasket material and a stud tool. (Dilligaf)

    Tried a few at lunch. Uggh. First of all, puching out the spacers and installing them is going to take a lot of patience.

    Second, I'm not sure I'm even satisfied with 1/32 so now I have to order 1/16 to try.

    Thirdly. F'in studs should not be seated so far as to not even be able to catch a silk shirt. I should just return them and get my money back I'm so disgusted.

    If you are looking for aggressive ice bite 45N concave studs are not the answer. I commute and ride single track so I have to be careful so I don't slow my roll to much.

    Before spacer, you can see the stud has sunk in to the pocket so the shoulder is noticeably below the lug.

    Stud Options for Dillinger 5 (unstudded)-img_4301.jpg

    After the 1/32 spacer is installed.
    Stud Options for Dillinger 5 (unstudded)-img_4302.jpg
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  23. #23
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    I have studded Wrathchild tires and they grip like nothing I have ever experienced before! Rocks, roots and wood, whether dry wet or slimy, are an easy task for the tires to grab on to. I’m surprised that you are not inspired to slick to studded.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GspotRider View Post
    I have studded Wrathchild tires and they grip like nothing I have ever experienced before! Rocks, roots and wood, whether dry wet or slimy, are an easy task for the tires to grab on to. I’m surprised that you are not inspired to slick to studded.
    i just ordered a set! Sounds like what i am looking for plus they are tubeless ready. Never could get D5's to work reliably

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I just ordered some 45nrth XL studs to upgrade some of the studs on my older D4's. I found them in stock at Eric's for $44/100pcs.
    I always check Bikeman.com first, and usually the prices are a little better if you visit the store in person. They are great people as well.

    XL Studs, $40/100pcs.
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  26. #26
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    Jeff G. Can you show a photo of your gasket material spacer cutout?

  27. #27
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    Just used the factory studded Wrathchilds last weekend for the first time-being this was my first set of studded tires I was amazed at the traction and handling. On hardpack single track I was running 12 and 13 psi all day,can"t wait to try new pressures with new snow.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaker View Post
    Jeff G. Can you show a photo of your gasket material spacer cutout?
    I can but here is what I ordered. (from Evil Amazon)

    .031" 1/32" Neoprene Sheet All Purpose Rubber– 1/32in (.8mm) Thick – Perfect For Gaskets, Liners, Weather Stripping, Much More - Commercial Grade 60A+/-5 Medium Hardness

    Then I borrowed a three hole paper punch from work and it punches through the rubber pretty easily.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  29. #29
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    My XL studs arrived yesterday. I replaced 120 studs on my front and 80 on my back D4 with the XLs. No shims or spacers needed to have nice extension above the rubber.

    The pattern on the front alternated in the middle and every side stud on the outermost lugs.
    The back alternated in the middle and every other on the outermost lugs and then every 4th lug on the 2nd outermost row.

    I am excited to give it a test as it should be an improvement. All we need is some slippery stuff... Below shows the pattern

    Stud Options for Dillinger 5 (unstudded)-xl-pattern-200.jpg

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraboy69 View Post
    Just used the factory studded Wrathchilds last weekend for the first time-being this was my first set of studded tires I was amazed at the traction and handling. On hardpack single track I was running 12 and 13 psi all day,can"t wait to try new pressures with new snow.
    I have a theory, backed up by opinion and very little fact.

    Everyone says a skinny tire at high psi is what works best for glare ice and that studded fat bike tires effectiveness is minimized because you don't get enough solid base for the stud to stick into the ice. Makes sense really.

    I run my D5s at a higher PSI than most. Probably 8ish in snowy single track and 12ish commuting on ice. I've yearned for more stud grip when riding on ice, especially in the single track.

    We had rain then snow then 15 degrees Monday night. Put the D5s on the bike Tuesday and ran them down the street for about 8 miles, much of this on glare/rutted ice. Since I just mounted them I had them at 14 PSI. Stuck to the ice very well. Plenty for me.

    I think I'm loosing a lot of grip at 8 PSI in the single track.

    Which is why I'm adding the spacer. I want 14 PSI stiction with 8 PSI suppleness for the singletrack.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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    This is a really interesting discussion. I just got my D5s (based on input from this thread) but have yet to mount them up or stud them. We don't have any snow yet anyway.

    To stud or not to stud, that is the question. If they are only riding on snow, any downside? Will they add rolling resistance on something like groomed nordic trails?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    We had rain then snow then 15 degrees Monday night.
    Now wasn't that interesting weather? I had no issues with 26x3.8 Knards at 8psi until I got to the Hamline bridge over the RR tracks in St. Paul. But I do have my Gnarwhals ready with studs for riding by the river on Sat.
    Remember, nobody knows. So let's find out...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gartenmeister View Post
    This is a really interesting discussion. I just got my D5s (based on input from this thread) but have yet to mount them up or stud them. We don't have any snow yet anyway.

    To stud or not to stud, that is the question. If they are only riding on snow, any downside? Will they add rolling resistance on something like groomed nordic trails?
    I don't think there is any downside to studding except cost and/or riding on pavement. My last set of studded D5's probably had 1,000 miles of bare tar/snowy/icy commuting on them with zero noticeable wear but I'm sure it increases rolling resistance.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGliberal View Post
    Now wasn't that interesting weather? I had no issues with 26x3.8 Knards at 8psi until I got to the Hamline bridge over the RR tracks in St. Paul. But I do have my Gnarwhals ready with studs for riding by the river on Sat.
    45 degree temperature drop in 24 hours. Fairly normal Minnesota weather......
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    I have a theory, backed up by opinion and very little fact.

    Everyone says a skinny tire at high psi is what works best for glare ice and that studded fat bike tires effectiveness is minimized because you don't get enough solid base for the stud to stick into the ice. Makes sense really.

    I run my D5s at a higher PSI than most. Probably 8ish in snowy single track and 12ish commuting on ice. I've yearned for more stud grip when riding on ice, especially in the single track.

    We had rain then snow then 15 degrees Monday night. Put the D5s on the bike Tuesday and ran them down the street for about 8 miles, much of this on glare/rutted ice. Since I just mounted them I had them at 14 PSI. Stuck to the ice very well. Plenty for me.

    I think I'm loosing a lot of grip at 8 PSI in the single track.

    Which is why I'm adding the spacer. I want 14 PSI stiction with 8 PSI suppleness for the singletrack.
    Yes I was running on ice all day as we had a mild thaw then cold-XL wrathchilds were like Velcro. We seem to have the same outlook on psi/studs/tires.

  36. #36
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    I've been interested in maybe studding up my D5s, but I really don't see studs at all in SW CO. I have gone down on ice before, though and had some bruises and fluid on my knee cap to show for it.


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    I've been interested in maybe studding up my D5s, but I really don't see studs at all in SW CO. I have gone down on ice before, though and had some bruises and fluid on my knee cap to show for it.


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    As the saying goes"the most expensive studded tires are still cheaper than an ER visit...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    I have a theory, backed up by opinion and very little fact.

    Everyone says a skinny tire at high psi is what works best for glare ice and that studded fat bike tires effectiveness is minimized because you don't get enough solid base for the stud to stick into the ice. Makes sense really.

    I run my D5s at a higher PSI than most. Probably 8ish in snowy single track and 12ish commuting on ice. I've yearned for more stud grip when riding on ice, especially in the single track.

    We had rain then snow then 15 degrees Monday night. Put the D5s on the bike Tuesday and ran them down the street for about 8 miles, much of this on glare/rutted ice. Since I just mounted them I had them at 14 PSI. Stuck to the ice very well. Plenty for me.

    I think I'm loosing a lot of grip at 8 PSI in the single track.

    Which is why I'm adding the spacer. I want 14 PSI stiction with 8 PSI suppleness for the singletrack.
    Any ice off-camber and the D5 is sketchy, but that's for pretty much all fat studded tires. I ran my D4s in our ultra-icey conditions yesterday and wasn't impressed, in fact, every time I run those tires I"m less impressed, no matter the conditions. We were getting freezing rain so everything on the ground had a new layer of ice on it, like the roots, etc. I feel like having more tread-contact with the D5 gives you more traction in many conditions. It's a balance though, you have to run enough pressure that you get some bite, but not so much that you are not deforming the casing enough. When it's icy and I'm pedaling uphill, I'm still able to get the D4 to break and slip before the D5, again, most likely due to the tread contact and winter compound, just like our car tires.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gartenmeister View Post
    This is a really interesting discussion. I just got my D5s (based on input from this thread) but have yet to mount them up or stud them. We don't have any snow yet anyway.

    To stud or not to stud, that is the question. If they are only riding on snow, any downside? Will they add rolling resistance on something like groomed nordic trails?
    No downside, do it, don't even think about it. Been rocking this for years now, you also get traction on roots and any harder packed situations, with the studs. Absolutely worth it. Rolling resistance is (maybe contrary to what you'd think) not affected in any way that can be felt. It's not like running tubes, or significantly heavier tires, etc. The studs really don't do anything but bite into harder surfaces.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    I've been interested in maybe studding up my D5s, but I really don't see studs at all in SW CO. I have gone down on ice before, though and had some bruises and fluid on my knee cap to show for it.


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    If you ride on icy conditions occasionally and the bulk of your riding is not on dry pavement, then i think studs are a good choice regardless of what others in your area do.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gartenmeister View Post
    This is a really interesting discussion. I just got my D5s (based on input from this thread) but have yet to mount them up or stud them. We don't have any snow yet anyway.

    To stud or not to stud, that is the question. If they are only riding on snow, any downside? Will they add rolling resistance on something like groomed nordic trails?
    If riding on snow there is no significant change to rolling resistance.

    The only downside to studs is if you ride lots of dry pavement. They are loud and can actually reduce traction on dry pavement.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    If you ride on icy conditions occasionally and the bulk of your riding is not on dry pavement, then i think studs are a good choice regardless of what others in your area do.
    Noted. I don't ride my fatbike much outside of winter conditions. occasionally I'll ride it a couple of miles to work out of season just because I'm in the mood to, but I have a commuter and a hardtail so there's no real excuse to be wasting tread on those $$$$ tires on dry pavement.

    How difficult is it to clear the stud holes of dirt and debris without compressed air available? Will a handheld canister of compressed air get the job done?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    Noted. I don't ride my fatbike much outside of winter conditions. occasionally I'll ride it a couple of miles to work out of season just because I'm in the mood to, but I have a commuter and a hardtail so there's no real excuse to be wasting tread on those $$$$ tires on dry pavement.

    How difficult is it to clear the stud holes of dirt and debris without compressed air available? Will a handheld canister of compressed air get the job done?
    I bought my tires studded and just removed and replaced about 40% of the studs with the XL's, so I did not have a problem with debris in the holes. I would think a canister of air and a small dental type pick, awl or tiny screw driver would work to pop out any pebbles.

    I just got back from my first first ride with the 40% XL studs. They do bite better and I am happy I spent the time and $ to create a "hybrid" setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I bought my tires studded and just removed and replaced about 40% of the studs with the XL's, so I did not have a problem with debris in the holes. I would think a canister of air and a small dental type pick, awl or tiny screw driver would work to pop out any pebbles.

    I just got back from my first first ride with the 40% XL studs. They do bite better and I am happy I spent the time and $ to create a "hybrid" setup.
    Some riders in our Fatbike group are contemplating the same stud replacement you completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraboy69 View Post
    Some riders in our Fatbike group are contemplating the same stud replacement you completed.
    I am entering my third season on these tires, so spending ~$100 for 200 studs (including the tool & shipping) did not seem so bad. If i were studding up unstudded tires, using some, or all, XL studs would certainly be the way to go. I am surprised 45nrth does not use the XL exclusively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post

    I just got back from my first first ride with the 40% XL studs. They do bite better and I am happy I spent the time and $ to create a "hybrid" setup.
    Thanks for the info and feedback on the XL studs, I studded the Wrathchild's with the regular concave ones and have been debating whether or not to mix in some XL's. I wasn't sure if it was worth the expense but sounds like mixing some in will be money well spent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I am entering my third season on these tires, so spending ~$100 for 200 studs (including the tool & shipping) did not seem so bad. If i were studding up unstudded tires, using some, or all, XL studs would certainly be the way to go. I am surprised 45nrth does not use the XL exclusively.
    The major concern with most riders I have spoken to is the stud is not wearing only sitting low in the pocket hence the change to the XL stud. They still all like their D5's. I also read on this forum that a rider had 45NTH warranty a set for that reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    If i were studding up unstudded tires, using some, or all, XL studs would certainly be the way to go. I am surprised 45nrth does not use the XL exclusively.
    What is the pattern you are using for the 40% XL? Inner or outer rows? Or mixed in?

    And....is 45nrth still selling these XL studs? They do not show on QBP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gartenmeister View Post
    What is the pattern you are using for the 40% XL? Inner or outer rows? Or mixed in?

    And....is 45nrth still selling these XL studs? They do not show on QBP.
    He has a picture of the pattern above in post #29.
    Check Bikeman.com for the XL studs.
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    I think the problem that could occur for some users, is that XL studs could pop out at a higher rate than standard since there is more torque on the bigger and longer XL studs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gartenmeister View Post
    What is the pattern you are using for the 40% XL? Inner or outer rows? Or mixed in?

    And....is 45nrth still selling these XL studs? They do not show on QBP.
    The logic behind the pattern I used, and showed above, was to provide the more aggressive studs on the outside of the front wheel to better resist washout. In hindsight, I probably could have put them on the 2nd outermost lug as I don't really rail turns in icy conditions. The back tire logic was to try to best use the remainder of the 200 studs that I bought to help in forward propulsion with some aid in corning.

    I just got mine from Erics $44/100, but as others have said, Bikeman seems to have them in stock for $40/100

    If anyone is interested in 180 standard 45nrth carbide/aluminum studs (USED) I would be willing to part with them for $18 shipped (it would have to confirm shipping cost to Canada). I cannot see any wear on them. (SOLD)

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    After 75 miles or so on the hybrid XL/Standard 45 Nrth stud pattern I can say I am satisfied. What I noticed:

    -After a 34 mile ride that included some road miles, I did return to find 2 missing XL studs. I fully expect those were lost on a trail were I locked up the rear wheel descending over some snow covered rocks.
    -The tires are louder on pavement
    -The studs work really well on ice and hard packed snow. I rode it on an ice rink to test glare ice and traction was excellent. They dug in really well going up and down hard packed snow/ice on hills. It is a noticeable improvement.
    -Granted, I may only have 20 pavement miles on them, but there is no noticeable damage.
    -no noticeable change in rolling resistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    Noted. I don't ride my fatbike much outside of winter conditions. occasionally I'll ride it a couple of miles to work out of season just because I'm in the mood to, but I have a commuter and a hardtail so there's no real excuse to be wasting tread on those $$$$ tires on dry pavement.

    How difficult is it to clear the stud holes of dirt and debris without compressed air available? Will a handheld canister of compressed air get the job done?
    We've had powdery snow for quite sometime now, but looks like we are getting ice next week. I studded up my d5s today. For the rocks in the stud holes, the stud removal tool was the best. It seems the rocks are exactly the same size as the stud pocket. I used the hand sanitizer to lube up the tool, pop the rocks out and then installed a stud. I probably had 75% of the middle row packed with pebbles.

    How important is it to bed the studs in before riding on ice? I'm not sure I can find any pavement around here. Especially dry pavement.

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    On a somewhat related note, I bought a set of winter tires for my truck recently and had them studded up. I asked the guy if the tire maker sells stud replacement kits and he stated that (vehicle) tires cannot be restudded and that studable tires cannot be studded after driven on. Anyone care to postulate why this might be the case (other than to make you buy a new set)? It doesn't seem like studding a set of vehicle tires is any different than studding a pair of D5s.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaker View Post
    How important is it to bed the studs in before riding on ice? I'm not sure I can find any pavement around here. Especially dry pavement.
    Well, I've been on several rides. I haven't lost one stud. I have been impressed with the amount of traction that the studded tires offer over the non-studded tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I am surprised 45nrth does not use the XL exclusively.
    Lots of people, and I mean lots, are ripping these out left and right this winter, especially on wrathchilds. I've never lost a stud in the D5s in over 5 years and I've lost one in the D4s in 1.5, but the XLs seem a bit too far for stud retention.
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    [QUOTE=101;13487859]On a somewhat related note, I bought a set of winter tires for my truck recently and had them studded up. I asked the guy if the tire maker sells stud replacement kits and he stated that (vehicle) tires cannot be restudded and that studable tires cannot be studded after driven on. Anyone care to postulate why this might be the case (other than to make you buy a new set)? It doesn't seem like studding a set of vehicle tires is any different than studding a pair of D5s.

    I sold studded and non studded truck/passenger tires for years out of my shop.The reason is that once you drive on the studable tires before studding is the holes fill with stones etc. and the labour would be too cost effective to clean the holes for studs.

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    [QUOTE=cobraboy69;13500122]
    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    On a somewhat related note, I bought a set of winter tires for my truck recently and had them studded up. I asked the guy if the tire maker sells stud replacement kits and he stated that (vehicle) tires cannot be restudded and that studable tires cannot be studded after driven on. Anyone care to postulate why this might be the case (other than to make you buy a new set)? It doesn't seem like studding a set of vehicle tires is any different than studding a pair of D5s.

    I sold studded and non studded truck/passenger tires for years out of my shop.The reason is that once you drive on the studable tires before studding is the holes fill with stones etc. and the labour would be too cost effective to clean the holes for studs.
    So, if I were motivated enough to blow the holes out, I could restud myself? Or, would the differential in wear between the studs and the rubber be too significant by that point? Supposedly, modern studs wear at about the same rate as the soft rubber winter tires that host them, but I am consistently told that 10,000 miles is about the shelf life of studs.

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    ^^Sure if the tires are not too old and worn(old tires=hard tires and worn tires=no depth for studs). Hard to put mileage number on studded tires as too many variables (weight, snow verses ice verses tar etc. etc.) Just use common sense.

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    Dillinger 5: do studs come out easily & if so does hole tear so can't re-stud?

    I'm thinking about replacing Bud & Lou in their 6th season (snow use only) as I've lost ~1.5 mm of kno&L, or, get Dillinger 5's...

    Question: before fat bikes I'd go through a pair of Nokian's with 400 studs every couple years as the studs easily ripped out on rocks - our snow level varies all winter long and sometimes rocks (in NH. the "Granite State") are unavoidable - when the Nokian studs ripped out the holes tore enough that I couldn't even re-stud them.

    Do Dillinger studs come out easily and when they do, are the holes also damaged so can't be restudded?

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    ^^^ I have never lost a standard stud in 3 winters using my Dillingers. I switched some studs to XL studs and did lose 2 XLs on a rocky ride. The holes were not damaged and I was able to put replacement studs back in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rshalit View Post
    I'm thinking about replacing Bud & Lou in their 6th season (snow use only) as I've lost ~1.5 mm of kno&L, or, get Dillinger 5's...
    With the siping worn off the lugs, Bud & Lou could be a good candidate for studding.
    I am going to try my hand at studding a Lou this weekend...link below.

    DYI Stud Pockets (so you can avoid using those expensive screw in studs)
    Last edited by FatBike&SlenderWoman; 02-09-2018 at 04:15 PM.

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