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  1. #1
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    Stan's seeping through sidewall

    I know this was posted before but I only have an iPhone and search failed. I don't seem to be loosing air pressure but the sidewalk is definitely wet. Tires are BFL, only a year only with not a lot of mileage. I do run them at 5psi. Could that be causing it?
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  2. #2
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    I take this is a new thing?

    Some leaking is expected, but it usually self-seals. But, seems this is reported with Stans more than others.

    Found this. Seems to explain why this turns up more with Stans:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    I would like to add to the discussion. I sometimes find that people do not use Stan's sealant properly. The sealant is a water based liquid with particles of latex in suspension which separate out fairly quickly. The instructions say to shake it up well and then dispense the sealant with the bottle upside down, holding a finger over the nozzle. If you do not get sufficient solid particles into the tire, it will not seal fully and you'll have the liquid part of the sealant sweating out. The solid particles are what block and seal holes/pores. ...
    Other comments in the thread deal with cause (variations on stretching from running at low PSI).

    The solution may be some fresh Stans well shaken (not stirred ) or you may end up having to: remove the tires, wash them out well and apply a thinned coat of rubber cement like is recommended with "pinhole" tires like Schwalbes?
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  3. #3
    Why so uptite?
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    I am wondering how worn those tires really are. I can see what I think is the threads in the casing. They might be too beat to hold up with Stans at this point.
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  4. #4
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    My tires will start to do that when the sealant gets to be a few months old. I just add some new sealant and it stops.
    I like turtles

  5. #5
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    The threads are starting to show, but I think that is more from the low pressure that I run and the sidewalls hitting stuff. I'll try some fresh Stan's, shaken real good and see what happens.
    Are people having better luck with another brand of sealant?


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  6. #6
    All fat, all the time.
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    It's not a problem, just wipe it off.
    My home brew sealant does this with older tires sometimes.

  7. #7
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    I have this happen on some of my tires. Same brand/model on same bike sometimes doesn't do it. My methodology for setting them up tubeless is the same and same batch of sealant.

    I can't explain why it's happening, but other than being a little messy it causes no problems and the affected tire hold air just fine. I rarely get flats so it's hard to say if the sealant is working perfectly normally or not. I haven't been motivated enough to stick a nail in a tire to see!

    It's only happened on rear tires so far, but my sample size is small so that may not be a long term trend.
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  8. #8
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    My Bontrager tires on my Fuel seemed to do it pretty early with Stans. I am currently running Continental tires and I don't see it. Not fat bike related, but seems like it may be a tire problem, not necessarily a sealant type problem or tire wear issue.
    Trek Fuel EX 8 29er.

  9. #9
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    I have a couple of Escalators that do that. They hold air fine so I will keep using them until they don't. I do take a spare tube with me just in case.

    I have the opposite problem with a Juggernaut on a HED rim. It loses significant air pressure overnight, is chock full of Stans that has been shaken like forever and yet shows zero weeping.
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  10. #10
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    Just wondering if you set the wheel on a bucket to get the solids to the sidewall of the tire. Shake real good and then set the wheel on its side for 30 mins or so. That usually takes care of it.

  11. #11
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    I was having that problem a bit last year. Wasn't a big deal, but it happened.

    On a trip this spring, I used some Bontrager sealant (had previously used Stans). The Bontrager stuff wept through the sidewalls, but in a very different manner. After that, though, the Stans did not weep through like the OP shows.

    I'd agree that the sealant formula definitely seems to affect the way it seeps through the sidewalls.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I have a couple of Escalators that do that. They hold air fine so I will keep using them until they don't. I do take a spare tube with me just in case.

    I have the opposite problem with a Juggernaut on a HED rim. It loses significant air pressure overnight, is chock full of Stans that has been shaken like forever and yet shows zero weeping.
    Early version Juggernauts with the ribbed beads or later version with smooth beads?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Early version Juggernauts with the ribbed beads or later version with smooth beads?
    The bead showing above the rim edge, which is a lot on a Hed rim, has a faint cross hatch, not ribbed like some other brands I've seen. I did get sealant to show when I poked the bead rim interface to get a better look.
    Latitude 61

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    The bead showing above the rim edge, which is a lot on a Hed rim, has a faint cross hatch, not ribbed like some other brands I've seen. I did get sealant to show when I poked the bead rim interface to get a better look.
    Definitely sounds like the improved version. I told them to get rid of the ribs after evaluating the proto/early production ones. The smooth bead (naturally) holds air much, much better and wastes less sealant.
    A thin layer of silicone fixes the issue on the early, ribbed ones.
    Espen Wethe
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  15. #15
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    I took the bike for a good 12 mile trail ride today and the tires were bone dry when I got back. All is good in BFL land.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecanoe View Post
    ..., I'll try some fresh Stan's, shaken real good and see what happens...
    Was this all it took?
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  17. #17
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    Since I just found this, I'll post here for those looking to seal their sidewalls.

    Rubber Cement thinner: products are N-Heptane based. At art supply stores.
    In the ping-pong world,
    rubber-cement:thinner
    • 1:2 is their "speed glue"
    • 1:1 is their "regular glue"

    Stan's seeping through sidewall-rubber-cement-thinner.jpg
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Since I just found this, I'll post here for those looking to seal their sidewalls.

    Rubber Cement thinner: products are N-Heptane based. At art supply stores.
    In the ping-pong world,
    rubber-cement:thinner
    My immediate reaction is that you should keep that stuff well away from your tyres!

    But hey, I'm willing to learn...

    Do you have a procedure in mind? Do you *know* that it works?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterg View Post
    ...Do you have a procedure in mind? Do you *know* that it works?
    Known standard procedure with some tires (like Schwalbes), when they're going to be used tubeless, is to seal the tire's "pin holes" by brushing the inside of the tire with thinned rubber cement.

    Rubber cement is the typical recommendation. Shoe Goo is the other one I've seen. The issue becomes what to dilute it with. Zylene or toluene are common recommendations for dilution, and acetone turns up some, even gasoline. But it turns out that N-Heptane is what is sold for the purpose, and should be available from most art supply stores, with the rubber cement cheaper from the hardware stores.

    • Like any tubeless use, the tires should be washed out well first, to remove any remaining release agents from manufacture, or talc off a tube, or anything else that may affect the rubber cement bond or latter react with sealant.
    • To further clean the rubber before application, in order of claimed preference, we've seen: toluene, then naphtha, then 99% alcohol, then Acetone.
      Note that naphtha is a known de-vulcanizer, for prepping rubber before glueup; it has a stronger affect on tire rubber than on tube rubber (butyl rubber, no idea on the latex tubes).
    • As with gluing rubber to something, scrubbing the rubber surface with a plastic scrub pad and the fluid of your choice (or availability) is recommended to abrade the surface for bonding without gouging it with too coarse sandpaper. Wet/dry sandpaper in the 360 to 600 range is also recommended.
    • A final wipe with a clean lint free rag with your fluid choice to remove the abrading debris.
    • Let fully dry.
    • Dilute a portion of rubber cement with your diluting fluid, so it can be applied thinly to provide a sealing coat.
    • Brush it on, let dry.
      (I don't recall specific recommendations on how thick to brush it, but typically with rubber cement the rule is to apply very thin coats, let dry, then recoat, until you have the thickness you need, which is said to be much less than most people think/apply; hence the need to dilute it for tubeless use, to ensure the coat is not too thick.)

    But, most people who've needed to seal the inside of a tire report success with skipping all prep steps except the washing & drying.

    They also report that it's a major pain if they have to uninstall a tire, clean out all the sealant, then apply the thinned rubber cement. Personally, I'd likely go for just the washing & drying on a new tire, but do the full prep for one that had been run with sealant.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  20. #20
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Known standard procedure with some tires (like Schwalbes), when they're going to be used tubeless, is to seal the tire's "pin holes" by brushing the inside of the tire with thinned rubber cement.
    Never seen this method before, and never heard of it.

    When it comes to sidewall pinholes like have been shown in this thread, I have always just let the sealant do its job and seal my tires. Never had any unusual pressure loss from it, so I just don't care if there are little bits of sealant showing on my sidewalls. I wipe the sidewalls with a rag periodically to prevent that weeping sealant from accumulating dirt, and that's about it.

  21. #21
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    I'm just going to wander though and add this.

    I've seen this phenomena in the last year, suddenly.

    So much so, and to such a degree, that I called Stans about it, and got an answer that if I'm being honest, was a f*cking brush off if ever there was one.

    "Did the formula change? Because I've been using your product for about as long as it's been made, and I'd never seen this till this year"

    What tire is it?

    "Schwalbe".

    Yeah, we've seen it with a few of those, not a big deal.

    "Okay, so I've also seen it on Surly tires, Conti tires etc, all recently, and I'm a shop, who's been putting this in every tire brand known, for a long time, never saw this till this year"

    Nope, nothings changed, we've just heard about it in a couple Schwalbes.

    "I have tires all over my shop with sweaty sidewalls now. This isn't my first rodeo".

    Yep, no idea, but no, the formula hasn't changed.




    I gave up at that point, I know when I'm being told to "go away and leave me alone".....

    I do hope there's an answer, because yes, this is new, and rampant, and related to Stans, directly, and unequivocally. It also destroyed my Schwalbe Ice Spikers, the sidewalls are a gooey freaking mess now, rubber is all broken down.

    Screw it Stans, I gave you a chance to work with me, now, I'm sharing.
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  22. #22
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    I have it happening on my 4.8 Knard but not on my 4.8 Bud and the two tires were put on the bike at the same time.
    I like turtles

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Never seen this method before, and never heard of it...
    Except for the part of naphtha being a de-vulcanizer, and scrubbing with plastic pad instead of sandpaper to ensure you don't damage the rubber, it's all from my notes from across mtbr in the past four years. I rarely have to go afar to find what I need, or to note what I haven't needed yet.

    What MendonCycleSmith has observed with Stans, that's just omg.
    Omg from a technical point of view, which unfortunately sounds like that is from more than just one bad batch, and OMG from a public relations point of view. Sounds like they know but want to avoid any liability. That's the type of surprise I'd expect to see from a DIY sealant formula, but not from an established product. Must be something in their mix that's acting as a de-vulcanizer over time?
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Known standard procedure with some tires...

    I'd heard of people scrubbing the insides of tyres and painting them with Stan's fluid, but that's a new one on me, too - thanks.

    Happily, I've never needed to go to those lengths (WTB, Maxxis, Schwalbe & Bontrager tyres)

  25. #25
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    I've (and have noticed others here as well) wondered how or even if aerosol plastidip would seal the porosity if sprayed on the inside of the tire...
    Howell, Michigan

  26. #26
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    I have used Orange sealant on tires that are not even tubeless ready and I have had any leaks.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I'm just going to wander though and add this.

    I've seen this phenomena in the last year, suddenly.

    So much so, and to such a degree, that I called Stans about it, and got an answer that if I'm being honest, was a f*cking brush off if ever there was one.

    "Did the formula change? Because I've been using your product for about as long as it's been made, and I'd never seen this till this year"

    What tire is it?

    "Schwalbe".

    Yeah, we've seen it with a few of those, not a big deal.

    "Okay, so I've also seen it on Surly tires, Conti tires etc, all recently, and I'm a shop, who's been putting this in every tire brand known, for a long time, never saw this till this year"

    Nope, nothings changed, we've just heard about it in a couple Schwalbes.

    "I have tires all over my shop with sweaty sidewalls now. This isn't my first rodeo".

    Yep, no idea, but no, the formula hasn't changed.




    I gave up at that point, I know when I'm being told to "go away and leave me alone".....

    I do hope there's an answer, because yes, this is new, and rampant, and related to Stans, directly, and unequivocally. It also destroyed my Schwalbe Ice Spikers, the sidewalls are a gooey freaking mess now, rubber is all broken down.

    Screw it Stans, I gave you a chance to work with me, now, I'm sharing.
    Have you changed brands of sealant and with what luck? I do have to say the Stan's has always been good until this last tire change. I wonder if they did change the formula. My Maxxis Ikon 29rs are ok though.


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  28. #28
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    Had seepage on Surly, Specialized, and WTB plus/fat tires.
    No seepage on Maxxis or Schwalbe.

    I used to think it was the sealant, but it's hapoened with more than one name brand.

    I used to think it was due to sidewall wear, but it happens with new tires.

    I even considered user error, but the only thing you can f up is not shaking the sealant up before inserting.

    Even tires that are well sealed to the rim and hold pressure for weeks have seapage.

    On a bright note, I don't get flats or lose pressure on rides.

  29. #29
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    Bontrager sealant in my opinion works better.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertdavid View Post
    Bontrager sealant in my opinion works better.
    That's because Keith personally harvests the tears of 13 year old, virgin unicorns, just after the harvest moon every Fall to make the stuff, or so Trek would have you believe.....

    TC, nope, never swapped. Too many customers on it, swapping over would be a huge hassle due to the ensuing rubber dildoes that'd create.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot_douglas View Post
    I've (and have noticed others here as well) wondered how or even if aerosol plastidip would seal the porosity if sprayed on the inside of the tire...
    plastidip is nowhere flexible enough when dry, it will just end up peeling off into chunks and upset the tire balance

  32. #32
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    fyi

    I used Stans 3oz inside weeping hodags, and after one month threw in orange seal 3 oz. that combo stopped all weeping and also these tires hold air long time. like real long time,

  33. #33
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    My Bonty Hodag is doing this currently, but my Bonty Barbegazi isn't. I've had it happen with several Bonty Jones ACX Gumbi tires in the past.

    I have a Mix of Stans and Slime Pro Sealant now, but previously was using only Stans.

    Have ran a slew of Maxxis tires tubeless and never seen it with them.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  34. #34
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    New formula is definitely different. It's been getting worse in my rear tire and I'm staring to wonder if it will degrade the rubber. That is Maxxis DHR 2



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  35. #35
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    I have seen this on tires that are not tubeless ready. My 120 tpi Knards weeped like a mofo. I have not seen it on any of the Spesh 2bliss ready tires that I run including Purgatory, Butcher, or Ground Control Fat. I think this is more of an issue with the tire casing rather than the formula changing. I set up some WTB slicks tubeless. Those things bubbled Stans like mad. I added another dose of sealant and rested the wheels on a bucket until it stopped. It eventually did.

  36. #36
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    I can tell you that tire is a modern maxxis Minion DHR 2 that is certainly tubeless ready. Never had an issue before my latest batch of Stan's.


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  37. #37
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    Ok, understood. I just got a new 32 oz bottle in this week. I'll definitely report back if I see it happening with the new batch.

  38. #38
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    Hmmm, I've used Stans in Hudu's, Vanhelgas and recently in 27x2.8 Chupas will no issues. Last week I mounted some used WTB 27x3 trail bosses and they're seeping throught the sidewalls like a mofo and losing pressure overnight. Same bottle of Stans used on Chupas and WTB's, well shaken.
    Ben, did the WTB's seep when you ran them?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    Hmmm, I've used Stans in Hudu's, Vanhelgas and recently in 27x2.8 Chupas will no issues. Last week I mounted some used WTB 27x3 trail bosses and they're seeping throught the sidewalls like a mofo and losing pressure overnight. Same bottle of Stans used on Chupas and WTB's, well shaken.
    Ben, did the WTB's seep when you ran them?
    Nope, WTB was fine as far as I remember, ran Stans.

    What rims are you using? Even if you have sealant seepage, it wouldn't cause air loss. You got leakage elsewhere, those tires are tight.

    To the OP and others, seepage is not the sealant, it's the tires, some seap more than others, more so as the tire gets worn. Temps also matter.

    Shake up your sealant before use.

    Use a water submersion to look for leaks.

  40. #40
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    Din't blame Stan's! I've had this seepage on almost every new tire I've mounted in the last few years, starting with WTB tubeless ready tires😳 Their explanation: tires are all now made in China and the quality control just ain't what it used to be. I get very little seepage from my current 45Nrth tires and Bontrager, probably just depends on which Chactory their produced in. Once mounted and seeped (?) they have not lost air. Be thankful that Stan's is sealing these otherwise crappy tires.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAM313 View Post
    Be thankful that Stan's is doing a job half as well as it used to, sealing these otherwise crappy tires.
    Fixed that for you! =

    Another Orange Seal convert. Apparently Stans isn't concerned about the experiences or issues, long time users are sharing with them about their product.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Fixed that for you! =

    Another Orange Seal convert. Apparently Stans isn't concerned about the experiences or issues, long time users are sharing with them about their product.

    It's worked for me, 3oz when mounting then 2oz every 6 months till the tire wears out. Never had a flat even with cactus spikes sticking outta my tire.

  43. #43
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    Me too, 15 years of customer/shop loyalty to it. Just wait till wherever you get it from, runs through their older inventory, and sells you a fresh bottle....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  44. #44
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    It was seeping out of my Fat tires bad. It wasn't so bad when this thread started but it progressively got worse. I just put new Bud and Lou on my bike for the winter and used Truckerco Tire Cream this time. Made in the USA, bottle comes with an injector and I like the consistency WAY better than Stan's. It's only been in there for a couple of weeks so too early to tell, but I have high hopes.
    I like turtles

  45. #45
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    None of my tires are seeping: Putgatory Grids, Maxxis Rekons, Maxxis Minions 29+ 60tpi, Maxxis Minions 26 x 4.8 120tpi.

    All are running Stans regular formula.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecanoe View Post
    I know this was posted before but I only have an iPhone and search failed. I don't seem to be loosing air pressure but the sidewalk is definitely wet. Tires are BFL, only a year only with not a lot of mileage. I do run them at 5psi. Could that be causing it?
    See how those leaks are evenly spaced?
    This is the due to the failure of the belt orientation in the tire. This is usually laid down at a 30-45 degree angle for a bias ply tire, which is what a bicycle tire is. The rubber has all but left the belts where they join and now you have the resulting leak.
    I have seen this exact leak in bias motorcycle tires that have been run low. And no amount of emergency slime would seal the leaks effectively.
    Some tires are much better than others at running low pressure.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by headwind View Post
    See how those leaks are evenly spaced?
    This is the due to the failure of the belt orientation in the tire. This is usually laid down at a 30-45 degree angle for a bias ply tire, which is what a bicycle tire is. The rubber has all but left the belts where they join and now you have the resulting leak.
    I have seen this exact leak in bias motorcycle tires that have been run low. And no amount of emergency slime would seal the leaks effectively.

    Some tires are much better than others at running low pressure.
    Remember those rubber bits you vacuumed out of the tire. I suspect they were from the inside of the tire and not the tube. That said I have a couple of tires that have looked like that for awhile but still hold air fine.
    Latitude 61

  48. #48
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    Sealant need some time to build up tire internal diameter, so its kinda normal to leak.
    Sometimes if the difference is too big other methods can be used to speed things up - like applying more tape layers or using foam underneath.
    Using just sealant and allow it to grow maybe is not the fastest or cleanest but lightest I guess.

    Personally after filling tire with sealant and air I stir wheel to distribute sealant and then start pushing bead with my fingers to allow sealant to fill the gap between rim and tire base, until there is no more hissings occur. And leave it overnight with higher then normal pressure. After that sealant leakage seems to reduce drastically during rides.

    Sent from my SM-G900F

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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Me too, 15 years of customer/shop loyalty to it. Just wait till wherever you get it from, runs through their older inventory, and sells you a fresh bottle....
    Is there some sort of production code or label change to recognize a new bottle? I've noticed an odd increase in Stan's seepage recently too. Interesting that others have as well. It's not enough to significantly effect tire pressure but the sidewalls are all sorts of wet.

    It's not the typical going for a ride where the tire casing gets a workout and the Stans is sloshing around inside doing it's thing. I'm seeing it days/weeks later while the bike is hanging on the wall with no use. Happening all over the casings not just the down-side where the sealant is pooling. Checking now I see it on 2 Nates, a Maxxis Mammoth, a Hodag, a Schwalbe Rock Razor and Nobby Nic all of which have hundreds if not thousands of miles on them. The only 2 that do not are a new Bud and new Minion FBF that have been set up 3 months and have maybe 50 miles on them.

    The worst a Hodag, is a TLR tire, hasn't been ridden in 6 weeks. The pressure may have dropped a touch but nothing alarming and I'd think nothing of just hopping on and riding. The tire looks as if I was giving it a nice soapy wash, walked away w/o rinsing it down and came back to find it. One sidewall is better than 75% wet and the other about 50% wet and foamy.

  50. #50
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    6 weeks on the wall in climate controlled basement. Stan's seeping through sidewall-imageuploadedbytapatalk1485009300.284814.jpgStan's seeping through sidewall-imageuploadedbytapatalk1485009315.467761.jpg

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