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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by drolic View Post
    This was called a circumcision earlier in thread. Why are we not talking about that? Or has this new term (that im now going to use as often as possible) already made the rounds?
    Call it whatever you want to. It's just making a nice clean rim/tire interface.

  2. #77
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    Gcappy FTW, I went out to grab the bike for a ride this morning and it was completely flat. Ugh. I pulled the tire apart and the Stans had once again worked its way under one of the narrow strips on the side.

    I cut a tube, laid it in, washed it off with soapy water and pumped it up with the floor pump (wife was still sleeping so I couldn't use the air compressor). It aired up like I had a tube in there. Trimmed the fat and went for a ride.

    In a 2 hour ride, no loss of air I didn't even have a single bubble of Stans around the rim.

    I didn't have time to drill out the hole where the stem comes through, so I just repositioned the rim strip so it pokes through a cutout. It looks stupid, but I don't _think_ there is any harm in leaving it like that - worst case some damage to the stem on the tube I guess. There's not a lot of room for drilling, so I am not all that psyched to drill it anyway.

    So maybe some others got Gorilla tape to work, good on you, but for me split tube is the way to go, its 100% waterproof, zero chance of the tape getting undermined by the Stans. If I could span the entire rim with a single piece of tape, maybe it would work.
    Big Strings, Big Wheels, The Jisch Blog

  3. #78
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    If I read that right you only had a schrader tube?

  4. #79
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    Yeah, I used a tube that is schrader. I don't have a presta one on hand right now, this was one of the reasons I wanted gorilla tape to work so badly, I had everything in stock to make that work.

    For split tube I think schrader is easier as you can pull the valve core and refill stans easily. I find the removable core presta tubes to be a bit of a struggle to get the core out and get the stans in, its only a slight difference though.
    Big Strings, Big Wheels, The Jisch Blog

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Gcappy FTW, I went out to grab the bike for a ride this morning and it was completely flat. Ugh. I pulled the tire apart and the Stans had once again worked its way under one of the narrow strips on the side.

    I cut a tube, laid it in, washed it off with soapy water and pumped it up with the floor pump (wife was still sleeping so I couldn't use the air compressor). It aired up like I had a tube in there. Trimmed the fat and went for a ride.

    In a 2 hour ride, no loss of air I didn't even have a single bubble of Stans around the rim.

    I didn't have time to drill out the hole where the stem comes through, so I just repositioned the rim strip so it pokes through a cutout. It looks stupid, but I don't _think_ there is any harm in leaving it like that - worst case some damage to the stem on the tube I guess. There's not a lot of room for drilling, so I am not all that psyched to drill it anyway.

    So maybe some others got Gorilla tape to work, good on you, but for me split tube is the way to go, its 100% waterproof, zero chance of the tape getting undermined by the Stans. If I could span the entire rim with a single piece of tape, maybe it would work.
    Sorry Jisch. Following your story it was almost inevitable you would come back! It's fun to try different things and some people have had luck with tape and foam but I want simple and sure that where split tube comes in. Weight loss is nice but is a small concern for me. My primary concern is no flats followed by better ride.
    I will say that I am going to give my other idea one try. If it works it will be the bomb. If not it's right back to the split tube forever!
    What is it you ask:
    4" wide stretchy plastic used to secure things to pallets like shrink wrap. A couple wraps around a Clownshoe with this stuff will probably not register on the scale. That and a Stan's presta valve with removable core and that should do it. It will be a couple weeks before I get to it but I will let you know. Split tubes are at the ready!

  6. #81
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    Mostly I do tubeless for flat free riding, but there is a significant weight savings with a split tube over that heavy tube that came in the bike, and I'm not so sure that there is much of a weight difference between the tape and a split tube. I don't have a scale to measure.
    Big Strings, Big Wheels, The Jisch Blog

  7. #82
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    Jisch, I believe you're right, it would be very close with the tape that I used. The tape weighs 120-130 grams. I am gonna be building a LB fat rim wheelset soon and the tape used on that set will be even lighter. I am estimating about 60 grams less. Between the rim and tape there will be a significant difference in wheels.

  8. #83
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    Ever since I got my Fatboy in early February, I had been thinking of going tubeless. However, after reading all the problems reported here I think I'll stick with tubes. One change I did make was to replace the stock Specialized tubes at 610g each with Surly ones at 381g each. Saved over a pound total and I can still use the Spec's as spares (or give them to unsuspecting friends).

  9. #84
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    Split tubeless works great on these rims and tires, Gorilla tape not so much.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
    Big Strings, Big Wheels, The Jisch Blog

  10. #85
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    Re: Specialized Fat Boy: How I went tubless

    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Mostly I do tubeless for flat free riding, but there is a significant weight savings with a split tube over that heavy tube that came in the bike, and I'm not so sure that there is much of a weight difference between the tape and a split tube.
    But what about compared to just running a lightweight q-tube? And if you want flat protection put some stans in it?

    I'm still failing to see the point in doing all this work to go tubeless.

  11. #86
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    I have run light tubes before, and got two pinch flats in three rides - this was summer rides where there were a lot of rocks and roots, but I didn't feel comfortable with the light tubes.

    I know I posted a lot here that probably makes it seem like a pain - and the Gorilla tape was painful! The split tube was NO problem at all, both front and rear tires aired up and stayed aired up easily. The rear tire aired up with a floor pump and it was really like there was a tube in there - that's how easy it was to do.
    Big Strings, Big Wheels, The Jisch Blog

  12. #87
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    I'm with Matto on this, too much effort and hassle to go tubeless. I've got a bunch of good rides with lighter tubes and no issues so far, granted they have been winter rides so I probably haven't hit sharp edged objects as hard as I will in the near future but pinch flats are part of the game with mt biking. Until you find that "just right" pressure they will happen. I have had some encounters with sharp objects and wondered "will this be the flat?" and it hasn't happened yet.

  13. #88
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    I get that not everyone wants to do tubeless, it takes a bit of messing about to make it work sometimes. I've done many other bikes split tube over the years so I'm comfortable with what it takes and confident when it works. To me the chance of an issue is no worse than the chance of getting a pinch flat with a tube.

    The Specialized Ground Control tires and Fatboy rims are probably the easiest tire/rim set I've ever done split tube (once I got over my pig headed-ness about doing it with tape).
    Big Strings, Big Wheels, The Jisch Blog

  14. #89
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    Specialized Fat Boy: How I went tubless

    Any pics of how to do it with a split tube?

  15. #90
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    I didn't take pics, but its pretty easy:

    Get a 24"x 2.3 tube, cut the tube lengthwise starting at the valve (cut it down the middle so both sides are equal). Lay it over the rim with the valve stem in the hole, as I said above I got a schrader valved tube, so I repositioned the rim tape so the hole is in one of the cutouts, but you can also drill the hole so a schrader will fit, I think).

    Take a wet rag with a small blob of dishwashing soap and wipe the tube, this removes the powder, provides a little lubrication to help start the filling process. Put the tire on as you would a normal tire.

    If you're a gambler (like me) put 4-6oz of Stans in the tire at this point. If you're the cautious type, you might want to try airing it up first to make sure everything will work before you commit to the Stans. You can also put a little Stans on the bead, if the soap isn't staying in place or is drying out before you get the tire started.

    Make sure the bead on the tire is sitting as far out on the rim as you can get it on both sides, it doesn't need to be all the way out, but at least get it so its resting towards the outside so there are no large gaps where air can escape.

    If you are using a schrader valved tube, remove the valve core, it just makes for better air flow for airing up. I used a compressor for my first one and the floor pump for the second one. It should air up like there's a tube in there. If not you can take a ratchet strap and go around the tire, tighten it down just a little, this will force the beads out a bit. I didn't need to do that for either tire, but it can help. Sometimes I've had to work the bead out by hand a bit as I tried to add air to get that bead up against the ridge so it will start taking air.

    As you air up the beads should migrate out toward the rim until they fall into the bead groove in the rim. One of my tires made a popping sound as the bead got in place (done with an air compressor), the other (done with a floor pump) moved out slowly so it didn't make that sound.

    If you didn't put Stans fluid in before, add it through the valve stem, replace the valve and you're good to go. There may be some small bubbles that come out through the rim/bead interface, that should stop as the Stans seals it up over a period of an hour or so. My first tire had some bubbles, my second one did not. Shake the tire and roll it around to get the fluid where it needs to be to seal up any leaks.

    I keep adding air during the Stans cure time, keeping the tire at 15-20PSI. I let it sit overnight before airing down to riding pressure.

    Take a pair of scissors and trip off the excess tube that's hanging out over the rim. If you're a gambler (like me) you can trim it very close. By trimming it close you are reducing the chance that you'll be able to re-use that tube if you have to re-do things down the road - its hard to get it in exactly the right place if its trimmed close.

    Hope that helps!
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  16. #91
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    Specialized Fat Boy: How I went tubless

    Great write up, thank you Jisch!

  17. #92
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    bpd131- would you mind elaborating on the leading edge tape you used? Seems like you had no problems. Is it the 11mm black tape from pegasus? You say it hangs over the rim and you trim it- do you trim it so it's still going up the wall of the rim (the bead lock)? Or just into the corner below the wall of the rim?

    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Hey guys,

    I posted this elsewhere, but I used a 4" wide leading tape from Pegasus Auto website. Someone else posted it on one of the tubeless fat bike threads, so I tried it. I've done 4 Fatboy wheels and they all hold air perfectly. And I am only using one layer of this stuff, it's pretty thick. The tape hangs over the rim and you trim it to get to internal corners which covers the holes. I put a tube in it overnite, in a warm environment, to make sure it was adhered well. No issues. And I am running some low pressures.

    Jisch, I know you ride Case MTN, so you probably live close to me, I think I have enough to do at least one and probably two wheels if you want to try it. You can replace it at a later time, as I should be all set for at least this season.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    bpd131- would you mind elaborating on the leading edge tape you used? Seems like you had no problems. Is it the 11mm black tape from pegasus? You say it hangs over the rim and you trim it- do you trim it so it's still going up the wall of the rim (the bead lock)? Or just into the corner below the wall of the rim?
    Sure I used this tape: Part number 3323-4 Black Leading Edge Tape, 4 inch x 100 feet, 11 mil Thickness from www.PegasusAutoRacing.com. It is NOT 11mm wide, it is 11mils thick and it is 4 inches wide.
    I trimmed it close to the top of the bead and because it was stretched on initial taping, the edge popped in to BSD and rode up the edge (bead lock area) a little. I believe how up the edge is irrelevant as long as it is beyond the BSD.


    The theory is not that much different than using a tube, except for the separate stem, which doesn't matter, as long as the tube has a removable core for future sealant charging. This tape is thick and heavy. 110-130 grams for the rim. I am not sure what a split tube weighs.

  19. #94
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    Specialized Fat Boy: How I went tubless

    Just curious, but by the time you use all that tape, is it really that much lighter than a lightweight split tube?

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhunter View Post
    Just curious, but by the time you use all that tape, is it really that much lighter than a lightweight split tube?
    I agree that it may not be much lighter, if at all, but I guess it depends on the tube you split and use. The tubes in my Fatboy were 670 grams or so. Jisch I think used a 24" tube that was much lighter. I saved just over a pound per wheel.

  21. #96
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    ^Sweet- thanks. Ordered that tape and will try the setup when it arrives. I previously had Rolling Darryls, one set up with split-tube, one set up with Gorilla tape, both worked great in all conditions, but the Gorilla Tape always had a slow leak.

    FWIW, one reason (for me) to use something other than a split tube is the re-use factor. It can be tricky to get a split tube set up more than once after trimming the excess off.

    bpd131- not to be dense, but when you say you ran it up to the top of the bead, you mean to the top of the wall of the rim? You say like a tube, but you mean like a split-tube, correct?
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  22. #97
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    You can trim a split tube with enough extra to allow for re-use, both the split tubes on my bike right now are on their second spin.
    Big Strings, Big Wheels, The Jisch Blog

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    ^Sweet- thanks. Ordered that tape and will try the setup when it arrives. I previously had Rolling Darryls, one set up with split-tube, one set up with Gorilla tape, both worked great in all conditions, but the Gorilla Tape always had a slow leak.

    FWIW, one reason (for me) to use something other than a split tube is the re-use factor. It can be tricky to get a split tube set up more than once after trimming the excess off.

    bpd131- not to be dense, but when you say you ran it up to the top of the bead, you mean to the top of the wall of the rim? You say like a tube, but you mean like a split-tube, correct?
    Yes, that is what I meant.. Good luck

  24. #99
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    Leading Edge Tape is the bomb

    Wow- bpd131- thanks for the tip on the tape. Easiest tubeless setup I've ever done on a fatty (and I've done a few). I highly recommend this stuff to anyone looking to go tubeless- on any fat wheel set.

    Part number 3323-4 Black Leading Edge Tape, 4 inch x 100 feet, 11 mil Thickness from www.PegasusAutoRacing.com.

    I pulled the tape around tightly and pressing into place as best as possible while turning the wheel, overlapped about 10" over the valve hole, and cut. I pressed it into the corner of the bead with a tire lever, then trimmed it using a utility knife to about 1/2 up the rim wall. Inserted valve stem and removed core and the rear seated right up without any coaxing (using a compressor). On the front, I had to put a tube in to get the tire to seat- left it for 30 minutes and popped one side, removed the tube and inserted the valve stem, removed core and it seated right up. I put in about 60ml of Orange's new cold weather sealant (it's not cold here any more, but I didn't want to end up mixing sealants next winter), a few spots around the bead bubbled and sealed right up. Left them overnight at @ 20psi and rode them this morning at around 6-8psi. Absolutely awesome.

    Using the Leading Edge Tape, I dropped nearly 1lb off of each wheel (from 7lbs 7oz to 6lbs 9oz), and my Medium Fatboy Comp, with CB Egg Beaters, AND a Command Post dropper comes in at 29lbs 6oz.

    Word.

    Specialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_6300.jpg

    Specialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_6301.jpgSpecialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_6304.jpgSpecialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_6328.jpgSpecialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_6329.jpgSpecialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_6339.jpg
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Wow- bpd131- thanks for the tip on the tape. Easiest tubeless setup I've ever done on a fatty (and I've done a few). I highly recommend this stuff to anyone looking to go tubeless- on any fat wheel set.

    Part number 3323-4 Black Leading Edge Tape, 4 inch x 100 feet, 11 mil Thickness from www.PegasusAutoRacing.com.

    I pulled the tape around tightly and pressing into place as best as possible while turning the wheel, overlapped about 10" over the valve hole, and cut. I pressed it into the corner of the bead with a tire lever, then trimmed it using a utility knife to about 1/2 up the rim wall. Inserted valve stem and removed core and the rear seated right up without any coaxing (using a compressor). On the front, I had to put a tube in to get the tire to seat- left it for 30 minutes and popped one side, removed the tube and inserted the valve stem, removed core and it seated right up. I put in about 60ml of Orange's new cold weather sealant (it's not cold here any more, but I didn't want to end up mixing sealants next winter), a few spots around the bead bubbled and sealed right up. Left them overnight at @ 20psi and rode them this morning at around 6-8psi. Absolutely awesome.

    Using the Leading Edge Tape, I dropped nearly 1lb off of each wheel (from 7lbs 7oz to 6lbs 9oz), and my Medium Fatboy Comp, with CB Egg Beaters, AND a Command Post dropper comes in at 29lbs 6oz.

    Word.

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    Nice job with pics. I never seem to find the time for that, or even weighing everything every time. Glad I could help.

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