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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by applen View Post
    Well, it's a little embarassing to keep replying to myself... but I hope this information will prove useful one day..



    I did lose pressure, after 2 days. Front was flat. I pumped it back up and it was leaking air slowly at first but did a trail ride on monday and after 40min I was probably below 2psi & had to pull off the trail and put in a tube

    The next day the rear was low I aired it back up and a day later it had lost about half the pressure. I aired it up again and it seems to be holding air now... we'll see.

    In the meantime I've fixed the front: my tape job was the problem. Sealant was weeping through the overlap in the pegasus tape. The trick here is getting out as many of the air bubles as you can in the over-lap: I think it was fine initially but eventually the airbbles started to bleed together and formed a big enough gap/path that the wheel would no longer seal. I think that's why it took a couple days to show itself. I did remember to weight the front tire this time and am updated the above post accordingly.

    Hopefully it all holds this time. The difference in ride quality is so great that I am committed to staying tubless, so I'll keep trying till it works and keep ya'll updated.
    What may help is going with 8-12 inches of overlap on the tape. 12 is overkill, I'm sure, but I did not have my pegasus tape leak.

  2. #202
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    tubez

  3. #203
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    Split tubez

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Split tubez
    weigh 2x as much as pegasus tape ;-)

  5. #205
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    Split tube was so easy to get done. Weight isn't a top priority for me, ease of install and no pinch flats and I'm good

  6. #206
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    touche Jisch, would love it if tape was just set-it-and-forget-it...

    my front is still leaking a bit after my second attempt: had about 1/2 oz pool of stans on the ground this morning. but it might be slowly plugging itself up...? am going to give it a few more days before i consider it 'working'

  7. #207
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    With that much sealant leaking you should be able to see where it's coming from, if it's coming from the bead seat, perhaps it will seal, but if it's coming from the rim cutouts, then it's getting under the tape and probably will not seal.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by applen View Post
    touche Jisch, would love it if tape was just set-it-and-forget-it...

    my front is still leaking a bit after my second attempt: had about 1/2 oz pool of stans on the ground this morning. but it might be slowly plugging itself up...? am going to give it a few more days before i consider it 'working'
    As much as Jisch has good luck with split tube, and quite frankly it works with a slight weight penalty, I have had just as good of luck with taping. I have been using my various types of tape job tubeless wheels for over 4 years without one failure. This varies from MTB to Fat wheels. The set up is key and maybe I have been lucky. Now with your issue of the front leaking, if it is the tape that's not sealed, I don't think it will seal AND last. Once tape starts to come undone, it's lost it's integrity. That's where set up and prep matters most. Once there is latex on the rim, it takes a lot to clean it appropriately to get a good seal.

    Good luck to you either way. They have 24" tubes that work well for the split tube method that may help save weight.

  9. #209
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    Ordered all the stuff to go split tube on mine as well, and will be doing so after LBS surgery since they have to build a hub into the rim and I don't want to re-do it...so I'll be reporting back.

    That said, I'm going to be rolling the SE and will have the 60TPI wire bead version, so maybe it'll do me a solid. If it's gonna be heavier...

  10. #210
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    i think the tape is going to be fine, it's just a question of how much overlap i'm willing to go for. and yes, i'm pretty sure it's a tape over-lap leak again, but a much smaller one this time. tire is holding air just fine today.

    i initially wanted to go split-tube but i couldn't find a wide enough 24" or 20" presta tube that actually went out over the rim bead (much less covered the drilled holes), without a pretty big weight penalty... roughly equivalent to just over 2x wraps of pegasus tape... so i'll keep trying to find that balance (i've currently only got 7-9" of overlap).

    i wouldn't say i care about weight... but i DO care about rotational weight that is so far from the hub:

    right now going tubeless saves over 3 N*m or 2.2 ft*lbs of startup (and stopping) torque. and that makes a huge difference in feel.

  11. #211
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    Are there not some kind of very light 24x2.3" tubes? Cause all I have left to buy is the tubes, but if not maybe I'll get that race tape once I check out the hole situation later when the bike arrives...

  12. #212
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    The q tube weight penalty is so minor that it doesn't make sense to stay away from this method. My ML'r has been flawless for three years and now my DT Swiss BR2250's on my Pivot.



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    just got a pair of those to run as tubes. pretty light.

  14. #214
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    Maybe my LBS has them cheaper :P

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    they should be cheaper.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Maybe my LBS has them cheaper :P
    You can also get the 24"-2.3-3.0 specialized tubes. I've used them with good results. They weight in the 230-240gr range.

    Took a lot of figuring to get a tubeless method lighter than them, once you include the sealant. With shrink wrap/Stans I've been able to get below the weight of the tiny tubes, and have the benefits of puncture prevention and better traction. That being said, come winter, I'll probably switch back to tubes for ease of changing tires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    You can also get the 24"-2.3-3.0 specialized tubes. I've used them with good results. They weight in the 230-240gr range.

    Took a lot of figuring to get a tubeless method lighter than them, once you include the sealant. With shrink wrap/Stans I've been able to get below the weight of the tiny tubes, and have the benefits of puncture prevention and better traction. That being said, come winter, I'll probably switch back to tubes for ease of changing tires.
    the q-tubes are 188 grams so a fair bit lighter than the spesh ones. add 2oz of stans to each and yer still doing well and that'll take care of most punctures from thorns and such.

    i've never had issues with traction on any surface with my worn out 3.8 knards at 8psi so tubless hasn't been a consideration there.

  18. #218
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    ^^Got the specialized tubes too and haven't looked back since. I've had a puncture on each tube once, but patched them and haven't had any issues since. BTW, one of the punctures was a... DRY WALL SCREW and this was on a mountain trail not any where near civilization...

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    the q-tubes are 188 grams so a fair bit lighter than the spesh ones. add 2oz of stans to each and yer still doing well and that'll take care of most punctures from thorns and such.

    i've never had issues with traction on any surface with my worn out 3.8 knards at 8psi so tubless hasn't been a consideration there.
    Yeah- that is a decent savings. I've thought of trying them, but seen a few tales of ripped valve stems and seam failures, especially when using on the bigger 4.6"+ tires. How do they hold up when deflated and inflated for multiple tire changes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Yeah- that is a decent savings. I've thought of trying them, but seen a few tales of ripped valve stems and seam failures, especially when using on the bigger 4.6"+ tires. How do they hold up when deflated and inflated for multiple tire changes?
    been using q-lites and regular 26x2.4-2.75 with no issues with 3.8's on 65's. got the 24's for the additional weight savings more recently but will report back once i get more time with them.

  21. #221
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    Name:  ziptape.jpg
Views: 343
Size:  15.3 KB

    I have searched and watched, but no one seems to be using Zip System flashing tape. I picked up some while getting other supplies at my local lumber yard. It is thin and stretchy, but sticks very well. I used one wrap, overlapping about 6 inches, set it with the tube, pulled out the tube from one side, and filled with 8oz. Orange Seal. It's now going on 5 months without any leaks. The stuff is light and amazing.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmboarder View Post
    Name:  ziptape.jpg
Views: 343
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    I have searched and watched, but no one seems to be using Zip System flashing tape. I picked up some while getting other supplies at my local lumber yard. It is thin and stretchy, but sticks very well. I used one wrap, overlapping about 6 inches, set it with the tube, pulled out the tube from one side, and filled with 8oz. Orange Seal. It's now going on 5 months without any leaks. The stuff is light and amazing.
    Go on...

    Like it's wide enough to get up the sidewall and cover the holes? Or did you do the holes separately?

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by applen View Post
    i think the tape is going to be fine, it's just a question of how much overlap i'm willing to go for. and yes, i'm pretty sure it's a tape over-lap leak again, but a much smaller one this time. tire is holding air just fine today.

    i initially wanted to go split-tube but i couldn't find a wide enough 24" or 20" presta tube that actually went out over the rim bead (much less covered the drilled holes), without a pretty big weight penalty... roughly equivalent to just over 2x wraps of pegasus tape... so i'll keep trying to find that balance (i've currently only got 7-9" of overlap).

    i wouldn't say i care about weight... but i DO care about rotational weight that is so far from the hub:

    right now going tubeless saves over 3 N*m or 2.2 ft*lbs of startup (and stopping) torque. and that makes a huge difference in feel.
    I do it for rotational weight loss and and the flat protection. I am a weight weenie at heart.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Go on...

    Like it's wide enough to get up the sidewall and cover the holes? Or did you do the holes separately?
    It's the perfect width for stock Fatboy wheels. Covered in one swipe.

  25. #225
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    Just one size? Looks like Lowes might have it:

    Shop Panel Tape at Lowes.com

    But 25 bucks is pretty rough, and its not actually in stock near me...

  26. #226
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    Came back looking for split tube information as I've failed twice with going tubeless on my rear Fatboy rim. Both attempts have been with 3m transparent duct tape. Strange thing is the first attempt on the front wheel is holding fine but the rear has failed with both attempts. I have enough tape I'm going to make on more attempt but if that also fails I'll probably go split tube.

    Can someone direct me to a 20" or 24" tube that will work on my rim and has a removable valve core??

  27. #227
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    I use schrader valved tubes specifically because of the removable core. I'll get the exact part number later and post it. I moved the rim strip so that the valve hole comes out through one of the triangular holes rather than the real valve hole - I didn't want to drill out the rim as there's not much room.

  28. #228
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    I was looking for Presta's with the removable core but couldn't find any. I'm assuming they don't make one in a 20 or 24?

  29. #229
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    I've had success with 2.8in Gorilla tape. Split the roll for the sides, full width down the middle. Before taping, I filled the vent holes with clear RTV. Put a bead around the valve, then cranked it down. With the CGs didn't need to use a tube, they set right up using a compressor. Small leaks in a few spots that sealed right up after giving the wheel a good bounce or two. A spray bottle with really soapy water helps find those pin hole leaks.
    Specialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_20150504_144834799-1-.jpg

  30. #230
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    24 x 2.4-2.75 q tube prestas have removable cores and retail for 8-10 bucks each.

    easy peasy stanz fill ups.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    24 x 2.4-2.75 q tube prestas have removable cores and retail for 8-10 bucks each.

    easy peasy stanz fill ups.
    Perfect. Thanks.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Just one size? Looks like Lowes might have it:

    Shop Panel Tape at Lowes.com

    But 25 bucks is pretty rough, and its not actually in stock near me...
    That looks like the one, it comes in 3.75" or 6". Yep, it's $25, but it's 90ft long and works so well. You can do 10-12 wheels per roll, which makes it $3ish per (plus the valve stem).

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by applen View Post
    my front is still leaking a bit after my second attempt: had about 1/2 oz pool of stans on the ground this morning. but it might be slowly plugging itself up...? am going to give it a few more days before i consider it 'working'
    it did come through the rim cutouts... so it likely was coming through my tape job again. but...

    it's been a couple days and not loosing pressure since a 2hr ride on monday night. Hopefully it stays that way.Specialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-imag2540.jpg

    update: haven't lost any pressure in a week and have actually been airing down a little bit. I've put close to 100 miles on the bike in this past week including a 5hr ride on Saturday... NO ISSUES!!! I'm putting these tires down as SEALED!
    Last edited by applen; 06-08-2015 at 02:24 PM. Reason: update: more data

  34. #234
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    Alright so I got the Fatboy SE and have about 15 miles on it now...dying to go tubeless in part to get this thing under 30lbs. So apparently the compilation of options is:

    • Q-tubes 24x2.4-2.75 - ghetto tubeless, reliable
    • Spesh tubes 24x2.3-3.0 (a little heavier) - ghetto tubeless, reliable
    • Pegasus tape (4") - seems fairly good but not perfect, 2-3 data points
    • Zip Systems tape - seems good but almost nobody uses it, one data point
    • Gorilla tape - seems to suck 50/50 with lots of data
    • Tyvek tape - seems to suck 50/50 with not much data


    So, before I spend a bunch of money trying a bunch of crap that doesn't work (already have some Tyvek tape to return):

    Is there any risk or downside to going ghetto tubeless? Can I bomb down rocks, roots, whatever I'm currently doing on the boat anchor tubes without worrying the tire is going to slip off or anything? Seems weird, but I'm open to the idea, just want to be safe. I tend to ride as fast as I possibly can. P sure I have the wire-bead GCs, too.

    The whole point is for me to to be able to ride just as fast/aggressively/confidently, with lighter tires, at lower pressures so I can stop bouncing, and carry less shit in my pack. Light Q-tubes the way to go still?

  35. #235
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    I have been riding my Fatboy aggressively on tubeless for over a year (didn't I just type this?). As far as I have found, there are no downsides to split tube tubeless (I think we should start calling it this instead of ghetto tubeless - bad marketing).

    You still need to carry a tube, nothing is perfect and you could slice your sidewall to the point where Stans won't seal it. In my time on tubeless I've had to put a tube in once (not on a Fatboy) when I sliced a sidewall and my sealant was dry.

    I tried the light tube thing for a month and had 3 pinch flats. I ride on very rocky trails, and maybe I'm clumsier than other riders (I don't think I am), but I can't deal with that many flats.

  36. #236
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    Seriously, all that tape, foam, hassle isn't worth it. Unless you have a tubeless specific rim, just go split tube. The ONLY downside is IF you plan on changing out the tire, it will be very tricky or you need to buy a new tube.

    24 x 2.7" is what I use (Presta Valve).

    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...5&category=597

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Seriously, all that tape, foam, hassle isn't worth it. Unless you have a tubeless specific rim, just go split tube. The ONLY downside is IF you plan on changing out the tire, it will be very tricky or you need to buy a new tube.

    24 x 2.7" is what I use (Presta Valve).

    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...5&category=597
    Tape is pretty easy, especially if you aren't stingy with the overlap like I was (that's what killed my first attempt). 2 full wraps of the Pegasus tape (which would have completely eliminated the issues I was seeing) is still lighter than all the tubes I weighed... just barely. Plus you can re-use it when you swap tires.. and you don't have to trim the excess (if you don't care about re-use) because tape stays in place when you mount / dis-mount tires.

    But yeah, split tube is pretty easy too!

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Seriously, all that tape, foam, hassle isn't worth it. Unless you have a tubeless specific rim, just go split tube. The ONLY downside is IF you plan on changing out the tire, it will be very tricky or you need to buy a new tube.

    24 x 2.7" is what I use (Presta Valve).

    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...5&category=597
    I've swapped tires four or five times with split tube, it's not that hard even with the tube cut close, I have less than a 1/4" sticking out of mine.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I tried to do tubeless with tape on the front of my Fatboy. I didn't cover those holes individually instead I ran two strips of tape around the rim, with the tape going almost all the way to the edge of the rim.

    I could never get the tire to hold air for more than an hour or so. I looked at it a week later (much riding in between with the tube back in) and found that the tape did not adhere to anything in there - rimstrip or rim. The tape had pulled back from the edge exposing those holes, which is where I was losing air. It was really easy to pull the tape off, which is not good - it wasn't stuck to anything.

    I am not sure if I got a bad roll of tape or there is something on the rim that makes the tape not stick. I did it inside at room temp, so it wasn't a cold thing. I ended up going split tube with the front (which worked great and is probably about the same weight as two layers of tape). I'm going to take your lead here and try the back tire with tape again, but this time I'll wipe the entire rim with alcohol, maybe there's something on the rim.

    I'll be interested to hear your longer term review, and if the tape stays in place.

    The rim has a good bead pocket and I expect that it should hold the bead in place better than some rims - no need for foam or anything else to create a ridge.

    could be something as simple as the manufacturing oil on the rim. Did you take some rubbing alcohol and clean the area before sticking tape?

  40. #240
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    Yes, I did.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Alright so I got the Fatboy SE and have about 15 miles on it now...dying to go tubeless in part to get this thing under 30lbs. So apparently the compilation of options is:

    • Q-tubes 24x2.4-2.75 - ghetto tubeless, reliable
    • Spesh tubes 24x2.3-3.0 (a little heavier) - ghetto tubeless, reliable
    • Pegasus tape (4") - seems fairly good but not perfect, 2-3 data points
    • Zip Systems tape - seems good but almost nobody uses it, one data point
    • Gorilla tape - seems to suck 50/50 with lots of data
    • Tyvek tape - seems to suck 50/50 with not much data


    So, before I spend a bunch of money trying a bunch of crap that doesn't work (already have some Tyvek tape to return):

    Is there any risk or downside to going ghetto tubeless? Can I bomb down rocks, roots, whatever I'm currently doing on the boat anchor tubes without worrying the tire is going to slip off or anything? Seems weird, but I'm open to the idea, just want to be safe. I tend to ride as fast as I possibly can. P sure I have the wire-bead GCs, too.

    The whole point is for me to to be able to ride just as fast/aggressively/confidently, with lighter tires, at lower pressures so I can stop bouncing, and carry less shit in my pack. Light Q-tubes the way to go still?
    I think the key to reliable sealing is completely sealing the tire to the tape/tube/wrap. The fewer seams the less areas for possible leaks.

    If you are looking for the lightest weight, shrink wrap is the way to go. I'm not sure if it reuseable though, although the roll I bought was $8 for 1000ft so I can do quite a few rims. http://www.menards.com/main/home-dec...p-2046722.html

    Using a duct tape rim strip, 10 wraps of shrink, Stans valves, and 4oz of Stans I was able to shave 70-100 gr from the S tubes.
    '17 Cutthroat
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  42. #242
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    I'm gonna change out my rim strip to a different color and when I do, I'll make a video with the Zip tape.

  43. #243
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    I pulled off one of the tires that has been mounted with Zip tape since January without a leak. You can see how it kind of stretches and forms to the wheel and it's wide enough to not need an overlap. The tape is fairly thin, so it acts like the stretch wrap, but is thick enough to be strong. You can also see a tape joint where it hasn't lifted at all. I used Orange Seal on this particular setup, but I'm not sure if it makes a difference.

    Specialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_4590.jpgSpecialized Fat Boy:  How I went tubless-img_4591.jpg

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    That's a really attractive option, but I pulled my tire off last night (got a damn flat already w/ tube) and my extra holes are near the outer edge like some have reported

  45. #245
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    I posted a new thread, but I though it would be helpful here

    Spez Fatboy SL tubeless success (for now)- Mtbr.com
    What Hill?

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    That's a really attractive option, but I pulled my tire off last night (got a damn flat already w/ tube) and my extra holes are near the outer edge like some have reported
    The Zip tape covers bead to bead. It would cover the little holes.

  47. #247
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    So it's basically a Zip vs Pegasus dilemma at this point! 30 bucks and slow shipping either way. Almost pulled the trigger on the Pegasus stuff this morning but got busy at work :|

    Seems the Zip might be less weight?

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Seems the Zip might be less weight?
    based on...?

    Peasus goes edge-to-edge plus a few milimeters... I never did anything with all those holes drilled in the SL rims

  49. #249
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    Well my Scotch transparent duct tape attempt on the rear has failed after probably 5 attempts. The craziest thing though is that the front is still holding fine but the rear just won't seal up. I made one last attempt and thought I had it but it eventually failed before I even rode it.

    I came back to this thread looking for tube info for split tube and almost got hooked into the Zip tape but the more I thought about it I'm done with the tape idea. I'm looking for the best deal on the 24 X 2.7 Q tubes and pulling the trigger.

  50. #250
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    I spent way too much time and money trying to make other things work. Split tube just works, I don't fully understand the reluctance to use it. I guess some tape set ups are lighter, but i see some with so many layers of tape it just can't be lighter.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I spent way too much time and money trying to make other things work. Split tube just works, I don't fully understand the reluctance to use it. I guess some tape set ups are lighter, but i see some with so many layers of tape it just can't be lighter.
    The only reason I haven't ordered them is because you either have to choose from pain-in-the-ass tire replacement OR ugly flap leftovers....

    Also, are the presta 24" Q-tubes removable core?

  52. #252
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    I think I bought some prestas with a removable core, but now I just buy Schrader valved ones. Much easier to get Stans in and there is better air flow from the air compressor (with the core in or out) on a Schrader than on a presta.

    I don't agree on the pain in the ass tire replacement vs ugly flaps thing. I'll have to take a picture of my wheel, but you can barely see the tube. I just swapped from Nate's to FBNs, no problems at all. I mean you have to make sure the tube is centered, but really that's not a big deal at all. All you really need to do is get the tube to go up the side of the rim so it will get pinched by the bead, you don't need to have anything hanging out to get that to happen. With a 24" tube on a 26" rim, it's pretty tight, so it's not like it's moving around a lot or anything.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Also, are the presta 24" Q-tubes removable core?
    Every presta q-tube I've ever gotten has had a removable valve core... but I haven't gotten their 24" x __

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by applen View Post
    Every presta q-tube I've ever gotten has had a removable valve core... but I haven't gotten their 24" x __
    The Q-tubes are listed as having removable cores

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I think I bought some prestas with a removable core, but now I just buy Schrader valved ones. Much easier to get Stans in and there is better air flow from the air compressor (with the core in or out) on a Schrader than on a presta.

    I don't agree on the pain in the ass tire replacement vs ugly flaps thing. I'll have to take a picture of my wheel, but you can barely see the tube. I just swapped from Nate's to FBNs, no problems at all. I mean you have to make sure the tube is centered, but really that's not a big deal at all. All you really need to do is get the tube to go up the side of the rim so it will get pinched by the bead, you don't need to have anything hanging out to get that to happen. With a 24" tube on a 26" rim, it's pretty tight, so it's not like it's moving around a lot or anything.
    Ah, glad to hear. So you trimmed and its still good eh?

    I wonder if a few spot applications of 2 sided tape or well-chosen adhesive would help with that too...

  56. #256
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    I've never felt the need, but I guess it couldn't hurt as long as you don't interfere with the tire/tube interface. With Stans those two get bonded together (lightly).

  57. #257
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    I understand how it'd be strange having to order the tape. My local Lowes had a huge display of the Zip tape right by the checkout, so it's easy to see in person.

    For the record, I have used various tapes with differing results. I absolutely could not get my Marge Lites to seal and gave up. However, I never tried Zip with them. I mainly like the tubeless for flat prevention, but the weight savings is nice. I haven't tried the split tube, but if there was any flap hanging out of the tire, my ocd woould go through the roof.

  58. #258
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    I'll take a picture of my FBNs tomorrow, no flap.

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    Looked at about every LBS in town for the big 24" tubes and the best I could find was 24" x 2.125 with schrader valve. Nobody seemed too stoked about ordering them so I guess it's time to hit Jenson!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Looked at about every LBS in town for the big 24" tubes and the best I could find was 24" x 2.125 with schrader valve. Nobody seemed too stoked about ordering them so I guess it's time to hit Jenson!
    ya like it's really difficult to add a coupla tubes to a qbp order (rollseyes) more $hitty bike shop stories.....

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    ya like it's really difficult to add a coupla tubes to a qbp order (rollseyes) more $hitty bike shop stories.....
    Ehh I really liked the one where I bought my bike but it's not near my house at all (closer to work, but in the opposite direction of my house!)

    I just got the bug to look after work today....

  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I'll take a picture of my FBNs tomorrow, no flap.
    . I tried to get my FBNs mounted split tube on my Fatboy SE rims. The bead was too loose and I couldn't get the bead to seat. What's the trick, Jisch? Did you have to put foam down under the tube?
    Last edited by Chinman; 06-15-2015 at 06:59 PM.

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    Well I ended up ordering some Pegasus tape.

    I don't even have a good reason, kind of just flipped a coin in my head between it and split tube, then saw that it would have shipped faster and cost a little less. Plus I already have the valves so might as well try it.

    So you might see me in here *****ing and cutting tubes in a week or so!

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chinman View Post
    . I tried to get my FBNs mounted split tube on my Fatboy SE rims. The bead was to loose and I couldn't get the bead to seat. What's the trick, Jisch? Did you have to put foam down under the tube?
    I just realized that this is the Fatboy tubeless thread - I have FBNs mounted on Marge Lites on my Bucksaw. I had both the Ground Controls and some On One Floaters tubeless on my Fatboy though (GCs on there now).

    The challenge I had with the FBNs on my Bucksaw was that the tires had pretty severe kinks in the beads from where they were connected to the shipping card. It's probably best to run them with tubes for a bit before trying to go tubeless. Two other tricks - put some dishwashing soap on the beads, this not only allows the bead to slip more easily, but it also can create that first bead/rim seal allowing for the air to do it's job. Also you can put a ratchet strap around the tire with it just tight enough to push the beads in a bit (not so tight that it kinks the bead).

    The Fatboy rim was really easy to get tires to go tubeless on, but you have to get the beads to touch the bead shelf, left to their own devices the beads want to sit in the flat part of the rim and too much air escapes for it to start sealing. It also helps to pull the sidewalls out toward the edge all the way around.

    There is no doubt that going tubeless takes some patience, but the airing up process is the same whether you use tape or split tube. I've had some tires air up on the first shot and some take 4 or 5 attempts.

  65. #265
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    Here is the bead on my Bucksaw where you can see how closely I cut my liners (maybe you CAN'T see?). I have swapped tires 2x using these same liners without any problems at all.


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    The dealer I bought my bike from says they do tubeless for $20 per wheel with Gorilla tape plus the cost of Stan's.

    They are not willing to go split tube which is what I want.

    Should I have them do tape on my SE instead?

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    Have they had documented success with the FatBoy?

    It's apparently just a different ballgame from most.

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    To me (as anyone would guess) that's crazy. If I'm a bike shop I would only do the thing with the smallest chance of failure, which is split tube. Obviously people get tape to work and plenty of people have it last with no problems, but split tube definitely has a higher chance of success long term. I guess using a split tube is using something in a way not intended by the manufacturer and therefore could be a risk to the bike shop? I'd be curious why they won't do split tube.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    To me (as anyone would guess) that's crazy. If I'm a bike shop I would only do the thing with the smallest chance of failure, which is split tube. Obviously people get tape to work and plenty of people have it last with no problems, but split tube definitely has a higher chance of success long term. I guess using a split tube is using something in a way not intended by the manufacturer and therefore could be a risk to the bike shop? I'd be curious why they won't do split tube.
    if the tape method works well for the shop as a service, then maybe they just don't wanna do it any other way, or don't like doing it that way. there's things that i certainly don't do, not cuz i can't, just cuz i'm not interested or don't find it worth my while.

    like trimming climbing skins. i sell a ton of skins, but when asked if i'll trim them to fit, i just won't do it. too busy doing other things like mounting skis and such.

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwheelies View Post
    The dealer I bought my bike from says they do tubeless for $20 per wheel with Gorilla tape plus the cost of Stan's.

    They are not willing to go split tube which is what I want.

    Should I have them do tape on my SE instead?
    do they give you any kind of warranty or gurantee for their work? if so, I say go for it... if not don't bother.

    also, this is the type of thing where its worth it to know exactly what your dealing with when you have an issue in the middle of nowhere. doing it yourself isn't that hard but... $20 sounds good if it actually ends up being set it and forget it!

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    Ended up having to try a third time for my back tire. I got a 10 or so mile ride in with the previous rear tubeless but woke up to a flat the next day. Further inspection implicated that my seam was shoddy.

    So this time I did the seam as best I could, then put a 6-7" strip of tape centered over the seam and really rolled it all flat and smooth, so hopefully it'll add that extra layer of reinforcement that keeps it rock solid?

    Did 4 miles today on pavement with it and it felt awesome, so I'll hit the trails on it tomo.

  72. #272
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    Shrink wrap had been working great.... Until I went to pull my son around on the weehoo the other day and he said "daddy look at the red bubbles!" I looked and my duct tape had bubbled out over an inch in one section. Disassembly revealed that the air had somehow worked its way through ten layers of shrink wrap and had the layers expand all the way into the tire. Front tire has been holding for months now, but I haven't been able to get a rear to work reliably for more than a month. Back to tubes in the back again, maybe I'll try Pegasus tape next.
    '17 Cutthroat
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon
    '15 Fatboy Expert

  73. #273
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    My SE is now tubeless. The local shop does the conversions. Gorilla tape, Stan's valves and sealant and off we go. Have done a parking lot test and it rolls much lighter, spins up quicker.

    Need to test for air holding now.

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    A$$holes did nothing with the seams of the rims. Both rims leak. I have seen this reported with all SE tubeless conversions. Bead of epoxy. Is that so tough?

    The bike was also in for the first service. I left the bike dirty to see what they did when picking up. Nothing but the flat tire conversion.

  75. #275
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    I've yet to see a bike shop clean a bike as part of the service. All I've ever seen a shop do is adjust the brakes, derailleurs & cables unless you tell them to check for something else.

    I honestly don't see why you're bothering with the gorilla tape method. It's not any lighter than the split tube method and it's more prone to leaking. If it's because you'd rather the shop does the work and they only do the gorilla tape method, consider doing it yourself instead. It really isn't difficult to do; the hardest part is pumping up the tires the first time to seat the bead, but it can be done with a floor pump (that's how I did it).

    I went the split tube method the first day with my Fatboy (not the SE model). Only difference between with the wheels between the SE and non SE model is the bearings. The rims are the same. My rims have the holes near the edge too. I've put about 100 miles on the bike since July 11th when I picked up the bike and did the conversion. Not a single leak and I've ridden the bike pretty hard.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwheelies View Post
    A$$holes did nothing with the seams of the rims. Both rims leak. I have seen this reported with all SE tubeless conversions. Bead of epoxy. Is that so tough?

    The bike was also in for the first service. I left the bike dirty to see what they did when picking up. Nothing but the flat tire conversion.
    that's a bad shop right there.

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash_N_Carry View Post
    I've yet to see a bike shop clean a bike as part of the service. All I've ever seen a shop do is adjust the brakes, derailleurs & cables unless you tell them to check for something else.

    I honestly don't see why you're bothering with the gorilla tape method. It's not any lighter than the split tube method and it's more prone to leaking. If it's because you'd rather the shop does the work and they only do the gorilla tape method, consider doing it yourself instead. It really isn't difficult to do; the hardest part is pumping up the tires the first time to seat the bead, but it can be done with a floor pump (that's how I did it).

    I went the split tube method the first day with my Fatboy (not the SE model). Only difference between with the wheels between the SE and non SE model is the bearings. The rims are the same. My rims have the holes near the edge too. I've put about 100 miles on the bike since July 11th when I picked up the bike and did the conversion. Not a single leak and I've ridden the bike pretty hard.
    The shop did not lube anything, no adjusting the brakes. Not sure about derailleurs because it shifted OK when I brought it in.

    Didn't want them to clean it. Wanted to see if they actually touched anything/lubed, etc.

  78. #278
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    How do you know for sure they didn't adjust the brakes or not? Unless you painted over the adjustment barrel and the screws to see their original position it's going to be very hard to tell at a glance if it was touched, dirty or not.

    No disrespect meant here, but I think you're upset that the tubeless conversion didn't hold up and you're trying to find fault with other things that really may not be at fault. Just go back to them and ask them to do it again, just this time using the split tube method. If they charge you for the second attempt then I'd start complaining.

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  79. #279
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    been working at and running shops for 20+ years and have never tuned a bike without a thorough wipe down/cleaning. doesn't take long, it's a caring touch, and it is a great way to see if there's any hidden damage below the dirt an grime. no matter what the repair the bikes go out cleaner than they came in. it's just proper form and brings a smile to the customers face every time.

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash_N_Carry View Post
    How do you know for sure they didn't adjust the brakes or not? Unless you painted over the adjustment barrel and the screws to see their original position it's going to be very hard to tell at a glance if it was touched, dirty or not.

    No disrespect meant here, but I think you're upset that the tubeless conversion didn't hold up and you're trying to find fault with other things that really may not be at fault. Just go back to them and ask them to do it again, just this time using the split tube method. If they charge you for the second attempt then I'd start complaining.

    Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
    As someone who is a former motorcycle tech, used motorcycle appraiser, and all around nut job with regards to details, the brakes were in the exact position as I had left them from the last ride(rear brake pull half way to lever and front brake pull at 1/3 travel).

    Did I find fault when I bought the bike new and they left QR skewers loose and did not adjust the brakes at all which could have left them warped after the first ride due to the nonmoving brake pads being too far from the rotor?

    I called the shop and told them about the seam leaks at both rims and they said to bring it by to get fixed.

    Also, the brakes were screaming like a banshee just as they were after my last ride before bringing it in.

    Edit: before mechanical experience is brought up with regards to doing the work myself; if I had the time I would be all over it!

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwheelies View Post
    A$$holes did nothing with the seams of the rims. Both rims leak. I have seen this reported with all SE tubeless conversions. Bead of epoxy. Is that so tough?

    The bike was also in for the first service. I left the bike dirty to see what they did when picking up. Nothing but the flat tire conversion.
    Pegasus tape has you covered on the seams!

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwheelies View Post
    Did I find fault when I bought the bike new and they left QR skewers loose and did not adjust the brakes at all which could have left them warped after the first ride due to the nonmoving brake pads being too far from the rotor?

    I called the shop and told them about the seam leaks at both rims and they said to bring it by to get fixed.
    Well that's changes things! :P I could see how a wipe-down could not have happened but making sure the skewers are on right and adjusting the brakes on a new bike to make sure they work is supposed to be standard operating procedure.

    Full disclosure here: I *DO NOT* work for a bike shop. I'm a computer service tech IRL, a photographer, and I wrench my own car and bicycles; mainly because I'm anal retentive. That and I just don't trust anyone to take the time to do it right. There's quite literally only ONE bike mechanic that I trust and it's my friend that works at the LBS up the street from me (where I bought my Fatboy from).

    "Fun" story for you here. He is the one that assembled my Fatboy. When I picked up the bike the place was slammed; he was running around like a nut trying to keep up with the bikes he had to fix. He had forgotten to take the dork disc off the rear wheel so I had to wait for him to get a moment to take the rear cassette off. When he got to it he checked the brakes (keep in mind that the Fatboy has hydraulic Tektro's, not mechanical Tektro's that the SE model comes with). Although he had set up the bike he had forgotten to check the disc and caliper alignment until then (and he had to adjust the caliper). He finishes up and I ride the bike home since I'm literally just down the street from the place.

    I get home and start doing the split tube conversion on it. Everything goes great until I put the rear wheel back on. For some reason I can't shift the rear derailleur into the three smallest cogs in the back now. Turns out there's some junk on the ferule that goes into the rear shifter, causing it to not seat properly. I clean it out and everything is good with the world again. Should he have caught that? Yup! I figure that his mind is a jumble with all the repairs that have been coming into the shop so I won't give him crap for it.

    Earlier today I had to use the granny gear to get up a really steep incline (cut me some slack; I'm gettin' old) and I noticed that if I was in the largest gear in the rear and in the granny gear, I couldn't shift the rear into any other gears until I up-shifted out of the granny gear first.

    What was the cause of it? There was zero tension on the B screw on the rear derailleur. Took me about 20 seconds to adjust it but that's not the point. It's not the end of the world but I *AM* going to give him crap for that one! He should have checked the shifting on the bike before OK'ing it, especially since he likes to say that he's an expert on bike shifting.

    Moral of the story: crap does and will happen. People can and will miss crap too. If you want something done right you're also pretty much going to have to do it yourself too. :/

    Don't even get me going on my car... I won't even let someone else do basic stuff like oil changes. The one time (and I mean that literally.. the ONE TIME) I let someone else change the oil on it, the essobie used AN IMPACT WRENCH to put the drain plug back on and torqued the filter on so tight that I had to pierce the thing with a long screwdriver to get it off. :/

    Also, the brakes were screaming like a banshee just as they were after my last ride before bringing it in.
    That's Tektro for ya. :/ You're in good company; mine wail when they're wet and make ringing sounds when I go over 15mph. The hydro Tektro's on my Rockhopper did the same thing too. They can clean the rotors and pads but chances are it's just going to happen again. :/ I was going to try some Swisstop organic pads to see if it fixes the problem, but my buddy and the other guys at the shop are in unanimous agreement that the only real fix is to get some Shimano brakes. :/

  83. #283
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    Crash, I'm not going to quote the bible lengthed post but you are in good company. My motorcycle choice was based on my being able to do valve adjustments and being fuel injected to not have to screw with carbs. I don't let a shop touch it! The bike, they quoted such a low price for tubeless that I couldn't resist. My time is extremely limited(hear me again, Rog?) with an 11 month old and my own business as well as working for another company while building my pipeline of work.

    Just need to find a good mechanic that can do what you pay for and get it right the first time.

    Speaking of tubeless, some carbon rims are looking good!

    This tapr ordeal has me worried. The shop swears up and down about gorilla tape. You figure a bead of epoxy on every seam would be a no brainer required less tape. Also epoxy the gweep holes. I am all for less tape.

    To be honest, I should have just done the split tube myself but I already paid and they are standing behind their service.

    If the second go around does not work then I will order those tubes!

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    They probably didn't epoxy it because of the drying time, how permanent it is, and depending on the epoxy, how it performs in different temps.

    Ok who am I kidding. They just didn't think about sealing the holes.

    For a while I was contemplating going a different route than the split tube method and I was going to seal the entire rim with resin coated carbon fiber fabric along with sealing the holes along the bead with Sugru:

    https://sugru.com/

    I decided against that in the end but I'd pick the Sugru over standard epoxy to seal the holes with the tape method. One small packet should be enough to seal the holes on both rims with plenty to spare. It's flexible, sticks to pretty much anything, will seal against air and liquid leaks, and if you ever need to, you can remove it.

    Only real downside is that you'd have to let it dry for at least 24 hours before wrapping the wheel.

  85. #285
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    Oh yeah, you can pick up the stuff at Target. It's $12 for a three pack. It's in the same aisle where the duct tape is in.

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    I went XT brakes since I couldnt stand the Tektros. Best money I've spent on the bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    I went XT brakes since I couldnt stand the Tektros. Best money I've spent on the bike.
    I don't mind the function of the stock brakes. I should pull the pads and hit them with a quick sanding.

  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwheelies View Post
    I don't mind the function of the stock brakes. I should pull the pads and hit them with a quick sanding.
    Overall I've been really happy with the hydraulic tektro brakes that came on my fatboy except for one thing:

    The front brake making a ringing noise whenever I go faster than 15 mph.

    I finally fixed the problem though. All it required was a spring from a retractable ball point pen, wire cutters, and needle noise pliers. I cut a spring and inserted it into the caliper so it helps the pads disengage from the rotor. If you look carefully at the pic you can see where I put the spring. I'm sure someone will say that it's not safe ourt whatnot, but it's mounted on the pad retaining bolt, and it doesn't interfere with the caliper when you squeeze the brake lever either.

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  89. #289
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    ^^^thats a clever solution. The mechanical Tektros did the same thing on my FB SE Drove me nuts. I've moved on to Shimano XT, but the wifey still has the Tektros. I'll give this a try! Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by crash_n_carry View Post
    overall i've been really happy with the hydraulic tektro brakes that came on my fatboy except for one thing:

    The front brake making a ringing noise whenever i go faster than 15 mph.

    I finally fixed the problem though. All it required was a spring from a retractable ball point pen, wire cutters, and needle noise pliers. I cut a spring and inserted it into the caliper so it helps the pads disengage from the rotor. If you look carefully at the pic you can see where i put the spring. I'm sure someone will say that it's not safe ourt whatnot, but it's mounted on the pad retaining bolt, and it doesn't interfere with the caliper when you squeeze the brake lever either.

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    So that's where that noise is coming from. I have been trying to figure it out since I got my bike. Thank you for posting this!!!

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    It's the pad not fully retracting when you let go of the brake lever. On my own bike, if I spun the front wheel after hitting the brake, you could hear the pads ever so slightly touching the rotor. If I moved the pads by moving the locking tab (the part at the top that sticks out of the rotor) and then tried again, the noise went away.

    It's a combination of the rotor being slightly warped and the pad return spring not being stiff enough.

    Just an FYI to all of you though; this trick may or may not work for you. You'll have to look at your setup and see if this is what's causing the problem. It's cheap and quick to do so it's not going to break the bank to try it though.

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    Third time is a charm. Went to pick up the bike last night and still wept from the seam. The tech at the shop said he will hit it with silicone and try again. Hope it holds this time. Really missing rare riding time lately.

  94. #294
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    toobez keep you on teh trail. no miss precious ride time

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    toobez keep you on teh trail. no miss precious ride time
    I am coming to that opinion. The tube never lost any air.

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    toobez keep you on teh trail. no miss precious ride time
    Quote Originally Posted by bwheelies View Post
    I am coming to that opinion. The tube never lost any air.
    Or Pegasus tape :P

    It's basically a tape split tube. Really split tube would be easier unless you change tires a lot.

  97. #297
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    I should just have this as my signature - split tube FTW, it's so easy and works.

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I should just have this as my signature - split tube FTW, it's so easy and works.
    and if i evah go the toobless route, split tooby i go

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    toobez keep you on teh trail. no miss precious ride time
    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I should just have this as my signature - split tube FTW, it's so easy and works.
    The only reason I didn't do it that way was because I got frustrated trying to get ahold of the right tubes :P

    I guess it would've been just as easy to order them myself as the pegasus tape, but I did it at 3AM and just kind of went with it. No regrets I suppose.

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    I should really start a new thread on this, but I decided to try and refine the fix for the noisy tektro brakes I put up earlier.

    The spring definitely worked for me but I figured out an easier fix than that. Truth is, cutting the spring to fit isn't a pain but compressing it and squeezing it in while you thread the caliper pad bolt in can be a bit of a *****. Here's an easier fix.

    Go to autozone and pick up a pack of the stuff in the attached pic (brake caliper lubricant). It's right at the check out counter.





    The instructions say that there's enough to do one axle on a car. For our use there's enough to do over twenty bikes.

    Take the wheel off and then take the brake pads out of the caliper.

    Slightly bend the pad return spring outwards near the back. Don't over do it; if in doubt, under do it.

    Apply about a half peas worth of the brake caliper lubricant/squeal reducer to the back of each brake pad. Don't use too much. Spread out a nice thin coat on the back of each pad. Don't worry about getting it on the tabs (it's not needed there).

    Put the pads and return spring back into the caliper. Apply a small amount to the pad retaining bolt and reassemble. For good measure, apply a small amount to the area between the spring and bolt after you reassemble the caliper, then wipe off any excess near the bottom of the pads (where the rotor enters into the caliper).

    Enjoy the silence.

    While it doesn't get rid of any squealing the brake may have, I immediately noticed that the pads in my caliper retract fully now without having to add a second spring to the mix. The infernal rotor "ringing" is completely gone now too since my pads aren't touching the rotor until I pull the brake lever.

    Of course, your mileage may vary.

    Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

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