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Thread: "Sando's"

  1. #1
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    "Sando's"

    Here's some pic's of Endo's and Larry's that I've trimmed the tread on to improve performance on sand. "Performance" in this case meaning reduced resistance/drag, improved floatation, less "signature"... There is a trade off- less traction. There are certain instances when I'll miss the traction, but they are few in soft (or hard) sand. "Touching" the sand as light as possible and disturbing it as little as possible keeps you on top and moving. Traction may help you move forward, but creates drag as you build momentum. Trimming helps cancel the drag and "frees" them up to carry momentum easier. On a longer sand ride, they make a noticeable difference.

    I've left the edge tread for cornering grip as well as the first row of lugs on each side of the Larry's. On the Endo's, I left every other "paddle" or "cross rib" on the rear tire for forward traction. By removing every other paddle, I've doubled the areas of continuous lug-less casing that is touching the sand uninterrupted and helping keeping the bike afloat.












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    Makes sense if you don't need full traction all the time. Let us know how it goes over time.

    Al
    It seemed like a good idea!...... at the time......

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    or just go and buy other peoples worn out tires

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    Quote Originally Posted by flobukki View Post
    or just go and buy other peoples worn out tires
    I think a worn out vee 8 would be awesome for what the OP is after.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    I'm working on the same concept Ward, but I'd doing it by just riding my Endos until I have worn the center tread away!

    Sand is very grippy anyways. Other than sharp turns we don't need no stinking tread!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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    Right on Vik! The effect is like waxing your skis. I had the Ft. tire finished for the NW FBer's ride a couple weekends ago... I didn't take time to document it though it might show up in the vid or folk's pic's somewhere, but the track your leaving behind tells the story. Riding along side of my buddy w/ the Moonlander and Bud/Lou, the difference is HUGE! I'm leaving barely a mark and his looked like a roto-tiller came through. My track will be gone when a breeze comes through and his may be there for a while. When it was time to lay down some miles, I could settle into a cadence & carry some momentum, and he would eventually back off the throttle and fall back in a lower gear to keep 'em turning- wet or dry sand. By the same token, on Sunday we went out and played around at slow speed, trials riding around and he was able to hold a line along the top of the steep "fore dune" where my tires would slip around. All that said, we had just about every type of tire on the ride, including V-8's, and everybody did fine and had a blast. Basically, I've just "waxed 'em up" for covering ground on the sand.

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    Thanks for the show of your efforts Ward; good pics.

    You mention a loss of traction, one idea that I have, (have not done anything) is to use a split tube coated with a very course sandpaper like surface, and slip that over an existing tire. My thinking (if it would stay in place) is that traction would be increased due to the increased surface area. It would be fast rolling and not disturb the sand below the tire much. If it does increase the traction, maybe center or side ribs would not be as important for steering or side hill control?

    Not a snow person myself, but have heard that truck drivers who drive in snow, if the snow is sticking to the tires, you then have the best traction available.

    Anyone notice this effect when fat biking in the snow? If so, then that is what my idea is about...only with sand.

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    I don't see myself going much further than trimming tread... except to trim some BFL's or ? when I get a set-up that will take the bigger rubber. With these, I can still air up & ride a pavement section, which is often part of a beach ride.

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    Took some searching to find Ward's old thread on how to modify Endo & BFL tires for sand riding so thought I'd bump it back up.

    Planning to do the same thing for a set of Kenda Juggernaut Sport 4.5".

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    Interesting stuff. This is the first time I've seen this thread. Thanks for bringing it back up, CraigH, and thanks for posting the original thread, Ward.
    I'm not sure if I have the time and patience to trim tires. I'm not ever going to trim my Halo Nanuks (I like 'em just fine as they are) or my Fat B Nimbles (not really a beach tire, anyway), and I'm not sure if 27tpi Larrys are worth the bother (due to their weight, and also due to their heavier sidewall creating more rolling resistance at lower tire pressures, as it bulges).
    But its interesting. One of my buddies is rolling a Spyder tire on his rear, and a 27tpi Larry up front. He also has a couple of old Endos in his shed. I should mention this thread to him. Right now, he has a tendency to avoid beach riding due to the resistance of the chronically softer sand up near his section of beach (eroding from a huge berm of dredge spoils from the inner harbor...that sand has a slight muckiness to it when wet, which makes it stickier.
    He has more time than money right now...which begs these questions, to Ward: How long did it take you to trim those tires, and how many razor knife blades were sacrificed?

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    Any multi-tool with a sharpened scraper blade cuts tread like buttah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigH View Post
    Took some searching to find Ward's old thread on how to modify Endo & BFL tires for sand riding so thought I'd bump it back up.

    Planning to do the same thing for a set of Kenda Juggernaut Sport 4.5".
    Man find some old cheap endos or larrys. They are everywhere. We'll lots in Alaska anyways. I can't imagine hacking up a new tire. Do you not like the kenda on single track type trails or do you just mainly ride beach sand? I do both. I need to build a second wheel set so I can throw on endos when I want. I am thinking of trying a Larry and knard or FBN out back on my rig for summer use. Should have better rolling on the road and still enough to take on single track.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tundratrader View Post
    Man find some old cheap endos or larrys. They are everywhere. We'll lots in Alaska anyways. I can't imagine hacking up a new tire. Do you not like the kenda on single track type trails or do you just mainly ride beach sand? I do both. I need to build a second wheel set so I can throw on endos when I want. I am thinking of trying a Larry and knard or FBN out back on my rig for summer use. Should have better rolling on the road and still enough to take on single track.
    I'm in Metro Vancouver and fat bikes, and bike extension fat bike tires are still rare. The only used tires I see listed for sale are the universally hated Missions.

    My wife and I bought Minnesota 3.0s in Dec., they came with 4.7" Bulldozer tires that I want to keep in good shape for winter riding.

    For spring, summer and fall riding I bought 2 set of 4.0" Floater tires which we've been riding.

    I bought 2 sets of the Kenda Juggernaut 4.5" tires to use for beach & sand riding after trying the 4.7" Bulldozers.

    The wire bead Juggernauts are surprisingly cheap for a fat bike tire, and for size I'd say they are about the same width at the 4.7" Bulldozer.

    I don't mind changing tires when we are doing a trip to ride beach or sand.

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    Thanks for the tip.

    I have the tool, not sure about the blade. Will have to check, or I could always buy one.

    Did you use any lube on the blade?
    Was thinking of using dish soap on the razor blades Ward mentioned.

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    I did not use lube, but I could see that it might help for tougher jobs like the Endo cutting above. Would require a constant drip for the tool. One could also grind the teeth off of an old blade to make the scraper blade. Seems to me even the dreaded Mission tires could be usable with enough careful cutting. Those six pound Walmart tires I was messing with are hopeless.

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    I used the type of blade shown here. It took a LONG time. Someone afterwards suggested using diesel oil as a cutting lube. Which I would try if doing this again. Or borrow a hot knife from one of my moto buddies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlutonicPlague View Post
    Interesting stuff. This is the first time I've seen this thread. Thanks for bringing it back up, CraigH, and thanks for posting the original thread, Ward.
    I'm not sure if I have the time and patience to trim tires. I'm not ever going to trim my Halo Nanuks (I like 'em just fine as they are) or my Fat B Nimbles (not really a beach tire, anyway), and I'm not sure if 27tpi Larrys are worth the bother (due to their weight, and also due to their heavier sidewall creating more rolling resistance at lower tire pressures, as it bulges).
    But its interesting. One of my buddies is rolling a Spyder tire on his rear, and a 27tpi Larry up front. He also has a couple of old Endos in his shed. I should mention this thread to him. Right now, he has a tendency to avoid beach riding due to the resistance of the chronically softer sand up near his section of beach (eroding from a huge berm of dredge spoils from the inner harbor...that sand has a slight muckiness to it when wet, which makes it stickier.
    He has more time than money right now...which begs these questions, to Ward: How long did it take you to trim those tires, and how many razor knife blades were sacrificed?
    I didn't lube the blade w/ anything... that might work though. Took me a couple afternoons to trim two sets of tires (one set Endo's, one set Larry's). Several of my beach riding partners doing this... mainly with BFL's on the newer, fatter bikes. It's a "trade off" thing... trading some grip for floatation and ease of pedaling. I had a friend, who was riding sand w/ Bud & Lou on a Moonie, who got on my old Fatback w/ the trimmed 4" Endo's said "wow, it's so easy to pedal".

    Sooo many tires out there now it would hard to quantify & judge which tires work best for sand riding or for trimming for sand. And for playing around or riding short distances, some might like the grip of the big lugged tires. No question though, on a long beach ride (the beach's we ride out here anyway), less tread= less work... and more potential miles, faster speeds, better float, etc.

    And pedaling Bud/Lou on the beach is like operating a self propelled roto tiller... it's just allot of work!

  18. #18
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    Diesel works wonders with a sharp knife.

    I used to dip my knife in it before starting out on my Friday night tyre slashing fun*. Quick slash and the job's done.






    *Making fenders for my boat.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

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