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  1. #1
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    Salsa expansion. Blackborow

    Salsa seems to be expanding in many directions. They have as many Fat Bikes as regular bikes, maybe more. The one that caught my eye is the new Blackborow seen here.

    It has room for 5" tires 132mm BB shell, 76mm chainline and alternator dropouts making for a very adaptable bike.

    They even have a dinglespeed version.

    There are a few things I would do a little different but overall it looks like a nice bike.

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-2015_blackborow_ds_profile.jpg

    What do you think?
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76

  2. #2
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    Call me a cynic but subtle as its inserted in the middle is an entire paragraph on the offset 132mm bb. Sounds a lot more like a distraction to get people's mind away from an ever expanding Q-factor.

    Then its said to be mated to the OD Moonie crank-- which is only for up to 100mm bb (unless there are new longer options now) .. Am I missing something?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoo View Post
    Salsa seems to be expanding in many directions. They have as many Fat Bikes as regular bikes, maybe more. The one that caught my eye is the new Blackborow seen here.

    It has room for 5" tires 132mm BB shell, 76mm chainline and alternator dropouts making for a very adaptable bike.

    They even have a dinglespeed version.

    There are a few things I would do a little different but overall it looks like a nice bike.


    What do you think?

    Too bad about the non-standard bottom bracket. Otherwise, it looks awesome! Well done, Salsa!
    --Peace

  4. #4
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    Then its said to be mated to the OD Moonie crank-- which is only for up to 100mm bb (unless there are new longer options now) .. Am I missing something?
    I haven't put a tape on them, but do recall, the Moonie crank makes use of two cone shaped, fairly thick spacers, one on each side. Might well be at least 32 mm of space added, if those were removed.

    That said, wider *standards* every year be it headset/steerer, BB, rear end, etc, will only serve to discourage manufacturers from jumping on board, and confuse the ever loving hell out of consumers and retailers alike.....

    Standards just aren't standard anymore.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  5. #5
    MaverickMotoMedia.com
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    I'm not crazy about the extra Qfactor, but the 22" frame is promising.
    Maverick Moto Media Motorcycles, Mountain Biking & Social Media Mgt
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  6. #6
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    I rode it yesterday. Didn't like it. The front end is wandery at low speeds and its a slug going uphill. Maybe I just don't like Bud and Lou...

  7. #7
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    Yea I understand what your saying. There is a bit of confusion even amongst Surly and Salsa. Surly list a crank for the Ice Cream Truck but they list it for a 100mm BB, I believe that is the crank you would need. I think it is a typo of sorts. I think the bike is a great alternative to the Moonlander, I think it is ugly but it should do what it is intended quite well.

    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    Call me a cynic but subtle as its inserted in the middle is an entire paragraph on the offset 132mm bb. Sounds a lot more like a distraction to get people's mind away from an ever expanding Q-factor.

    Then its said to be mated to the OD Moonie crank-- which is only for up to 100mm bb (unless there are new longer options now) .. Am I missing something?
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76

  8. #8
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    wouldn't the BB shell difference be made up because it is Pressfit and not external cup? Seems the spindle length would end up being about the same if you move the bearings inboard.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    wouldn't the BB shell difference be made up because it is Pressfit and not external cup? Seems the spindle length would end up being about the same if you move the bearings inboard.
    Yes!

    So, a wider BB shell doesn´t necessarily mean a wider Q-factor.

  10. #10
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    My understanding is a 120mm press fit is the same as a 100mm external cup. On the Blackborow and the Ice Cream Truck they are using a press fit 132mm with offset so I believe it to have a longer spindle.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    wouldn't the BB shell difference be made up because it is Pressfit and not external cup? Seems the spindle length would end up being about the same if you move the bearings inboard.
    Correct. A wider shell does not necessarily mean wider Q. But in this case it may have a wider Q, the way they mount the rings can minimize the increase but I am guessing it is at least a few mm's wider than a Moonlander. Maybe someone at Saddle Drive could measure the Q factor and chime in.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlowinFlo View Post
    Yes!

    So, a wider BB shell doesn´t necessarily mean a wider Q-factor.
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76

  11. #11
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    76mm is more in line with the wackadoo mongoose dolomite. 69-70mm is optimal for a 190 hub running 1x?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    Call me a cynic but subtle as its inserted in the middle is an entire paragraph on the offset 132mm bb. Sounds a lot more like a distraction to get people's mind away from an ever expanding Q-factor.
    nope, no wider Q-factor. It's just the bearings are inside the frame now.
    Last edited by Hand/of/Midas; 07-22-2014 at 12:28 PM.

  13. #13
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    BD the disruptor of the industry.. forcing premium brands to "innovate" to justify the price.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoo View Post
    My understanding is a 120mm press fit is the same as a 100mm external cup. On the Blackborow and the Ice Cream Truck they are using a press fit 132mm with offset so I believe it to have a longer spindle.



    Correct. A wider shell does not necessarily mean wider Q. But in this case it may have a wider Q, the way they mount the rings can minimize the increase but I am guessing it is at least a few mm's wider than a Moonlander. Maybe someone at Saddle Drive could measure the Q factor and chime in.
    I thought 120mm bottom brackets were introduced in conjunction with 190mm rear rub spacing. A 20mm longer spindle is needed with 190mm as compared to 170mm rear spacing. One way to do that is to use a 120mm instead of 100mm bottom bracket.

    For crank systems where the spindle is separate from the bottom bracket, when a 100mm shell is used with 190mm rear spacing, 10mm of spacers are used on each side between the bearing and crank. For this type of crankset, it is critical to get the proper spindle length. One is intended for 170mm spaced frames and the other for 190mm.

    Or perhaps I'm imagining things. But that makes sense to me.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogman View Post
    BD the disruptor of the industry.. forcing premium brands to "innovate" to justify the price.
    And I thought I only came up with stupid things like this to say, congrats welcome to my level.
    And I love beer!!

  16. #16
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    gimme some rep pts then plz!

  17. #17
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    Big tires + thru axle + longer wheelbase + alternator. Does that spell trouble with lateral forces?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartski View Post
    Big tires + thru axle + longer wheelbase + alternator. Does that spell trouble with lateral forces?
    Yeah trouble with a capital T, now what the h#ll are you talking about?
    And I love beer!!

  19. #19
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    Rip down a hill and whip around a corner. Or slide into a skid. Would the longer wheelbase, tires that stick the ground while the body, gear and bike are going the other way, and rear bits that are screwed into the frame....is something going to fail?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartski View Post
    Rip down a hill and whip around a corner. Or slide into a skid. Would the longer wheelbase, tires that stick the ground while the body, gear and bike are going the other way, and rear bits that are screwed into the frame....is something going to fail?
    You either are drunk or have no idea what you are talking about. Please step away from the interweb now and continue on with your life or whatever you call it
    And I love beer!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartski View Post
    Rip down a hill and whip around a corner. Or slide into a skid. Would the longer wheelbase, tires that stick the ground while the body, gear and bike are going the other way, and rear bits that are screwed into the frame....is something going to fail?
    Name:  histare.gif
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    Say what???

  22. #22
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    Maybe he's never seen pro downhillers and what they do to bikes.

  23. #23
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    The Blackborrow looks pretty awesome - except for the funky BB. You can only use the Surly OD cranks, right?

  24. #24
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    Interesting how many models get super hyped and others fly under the radar. The Surly ICT seems to be all the rage, and the with Salsa , this model seems to be overshadowed by the carbon beargease and the new full sus offering.
    Sorry to resurect, but didnt want to create a new thread. Just surprised that I havent seen more buzz about this plus size offering.
    - MOOTS Mooto X
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    - Cannondale SL4 29

  25. #25
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    Interesting how many models get super hyped and others fly under the radar. The Surly ICT seems to be all the rage, and the with Salsa , this model seems to be overshadowed by the carbon beargease and the new full sus offering.
    Sorry to resurect, but didnt want to create a new thread. Just surprised that I havent seen more buzz about this plus size offering.
    You probably will start seeing more about this bike here soon. They are due to hit bike shops, (geared ones, anyway), by the end of this month. The Dinglespeed version isn't coming until sometime in December.

    I've seen a few Facebook posts of QBP employees. Salsa employees, and a couple select dealers that are out riding some pre-production samples. I have a Blackborow DS on order, so I am maybe a bit more on the lookout for info than others, but there is a bit of excitement about this bike out there if you look hard enough.

    This bike and the aluminum Beargrease are the "sleepers" in Salsa's line up, in my opinion.
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