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  1. #201
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    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-p2050003.jpg

    Occasional Spring/Summer/Fall riding? I plan on being that guy. I think this is the best handling, most capable Salsa fat bike yet. If you are a bigger guy, the 4.8's will suit you fine, and as stated- the handling is really lively, yet at slow speeds, there is a stability that is also much appreciated.

    My plan is to get a Bluto for Summer riding and I may add a rear derailleur and gears to the rear wheel, but I will definitely be pulling this rig out on occasion for rides all year long. I'm especially looking forward to a trip to the Franklin Mountains in El Paso for some rock crawling adventures this Spring.
    Riden' an Smilin'
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  2. #202
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    Last edited by frozenmonkey; 02-06-2015 at 10:40 PM. Reason: +5 IPAs

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    If there's a 5" bike that is good for summer riding, the blackborow is it, very nimble compared to the other 5" bikes I've ridden (907, borealis, moonlander)
    Ditto^^^

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by LewisQC View Post
    Hi Blackborow owners! Any recent opinion/rider input/review about the Blackborow?

    I've been able to find availability for a XL Blackborow 1 with my lbs. Since it would be mainly a winter bike (Intense Spider Comp for summer riding) and I'm 200 pounds gear-up, I was thinking 100mm rim and big tire is the way to go. After reading too much internet thread I'm doubting a bit about this decision… How this big tire/rim combo would work for the occasional spring/fall ride? I'm riding alone most of the time (don't have to keep up with fast friends!), technical rocky/rooty trail and more fund about clearing a technical "problem" than beating a PB on a flowy trail…

    Just want to be sure that I will be able to ride the bike for a while like this before getting a second wheel set (won't fit in the budget for this year…). What I like about the bike: 197mm/150mm spacing, Thru-axle, short CS, already on big rim/tire so I don't have to pay 300$ more for 4.8 tire, available with my lbs for service, rather buy a bike now cause with can$ going down prices should go up next year, fun factor (priority for this bike) seems high on every review have read…

    Thanks for any additional input, just getting cold feet a bit with that kind of money for a second mtb...
    Whatever you do, do not buy this bike. The playfulness will make you smile, which will wipe that worried look off your face. The small-but-growing Blackborow community here has your back and we cannot afford to let this happen, as we need more worry-warts.

    Despite the short chainstays and wonderfully slack front end, it's a horrible machine. I hate mine, as it gives me joy, and joy is not what I desire. Whatever you do, do not buy this bike!

    I hope this helps.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    Whatever you do, do not buy this bike. The playfulness will make you smile, which will wipe that worried look off your face. The small-but-growing Blackborow community here has your back and we cannot afford to let this happen, as we need more worry-warts.

    Despite the short chainstays and wonderfully slack front end, it's a horrible machine. I hate mine, as it gives me joy, and joy is not what I desire. Whatever you do, do not buy this bike!

    I hope this helps.
    AHAH! It certainly help a bit! Thanks guys! Nice pic Guitar Ted... I would really like to get a DS if I can find one

  6. #206
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    Took mine up to the John Muir trails in WI yesterday. The inner trails were in good shaped and this thing ripped on them. Brought a buddy and he rented a Farley 8, we switched a few times and I could not believe the difference. I had trouble holding a decent line and climbing with the smaller, less aggressive tires. If I was ever questioning going the 5" tire route I definatley know I made the right decision after yesterday. Lou/Lou and this bikes handling was a great combination in the conditions today and pretty much every time I've ridden.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2:01 View Post
    Say what you will, but IF the tires are the same size, that is physically impossible (pertaining to bicycle tires, which have a circular shape).
    I don't have a dog in this fight, and I imagine the difference in height is pretty small, but a narrower rim would make the tire taller. True, tires are roughly circular, but one side of the circle is determined by the rim width. So, if you run a skinnier rim, you effectively decrease the circumference of the whole shebang. But, since you still have the same amount of tire, that circumference lost (relative to a wider rim) has only one place to go. It tends to help to think of the extreme situation. If you put a Nate on a 200mm wide rim (if that existed), that tire would have to be spread flat as a pancake. Now decrease that rim width down to 20mm, and that tire has to balloon out. Make sense?

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    I don't have a dog in this fight, and I imagine the difference in height is pretty small, but a narrower rim would make the tire taller. True, tires are roughly circular, but one side of the circle is determined by the rim width. So, if you run a skinnier rim, you effectively decrease the circumference of the whole shebang. But, since you still have the same amount of tire, that circumference lost (relative to a wider rim) has only one place to go. It tends to help to think of the extreme situation. If you put a Nate on a 200mm wide rim (if that existed), that tire would have to be spread flat as a pancake. Now decrease that rim width down to 20mm, and that tire has to balloon out. Make sense?
    I was having a hard time of this conceptually, so I just ran the numbers. Assuming that a tire forms as a continuous arc from bead to bead, going from a rim width of 100mm to 65mm should (mathematically) cause the height to go from 93.6 to 93.8mm (assuming a bud or lou). This is a negligible difference and my guess is that this isn't actually quite correct, though it does calculate to very similar widths as have been measured in real life (based on the real tire widths thread and compiled pdf). This is a non-linear function, so it can't be solved thinking only of the extremes; I ultimately "solved" it using a guess and check method.

    Okay, I will end the geeking and get back to drooling

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    I don't have a dog in this fight, and I imagine the difference in height is pretty small, but a narrower rim would make the tire taller. True, tires are roughly circular, but one side of the circle is determined by the rim width. So, if you run a skinnier rim, you effectively decrease the circumference of the whole shebang. But, since you still have the same amount of tire, that circumference lost (relative to a wider rim) has only one place to go. It tends to help to think of the extreme situation. If you put a Nate on a 200mm wide rim (if that existed), that tire would have to be spread flat as a pancake. Now decrease that rim width down to 20mm, and that tire has to balloon out. Make sense?
    Yup

    rog

  10. #210
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    I should get my Blackborow 1 in one week... No DS available untill???? So I had to pay a little more to get the 1. Still 3 months of winter to come so plenty of time to ride it!

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    Nice. I ended up with a Bb1, swapped in a Cinch 1x. Wanted the DS too, but I know now I woulda geared it anyway so $wise it woulda been even, and this way I made out w some Thomson hardware I can use or flip. That DS colour though. Dope.

    Anybody running a bluto...some pics would be so swell.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by frozenmonkey View Post
    Nice. I ended up with a Bb1, swapped in a Cinch 1x. Wanted the DS too, but I know now I woulda geared it anyway so $wise it woulda been even, and this way I made out w some Thomson hardware I can use or flip. That DS colour though. Dope.

    Anybody running a bluto...some pics would be so swell.
    I'll ride the bike stock for now but eventually I want to go 1x (RF cinch or Next). I'll order some Q-tube before I decide if I go the tubeless route. If I use it a lot in summer, maybe a second set of wheels but right now I cannot see myself taking my Fatbike insteed of my beloved Intense Spider Comp...

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    I don't have a dog in this fight, and I imagine the difference in height is pretty small, but a narrower rim would make the tire taller. True, tires are roughly circular, but one side of the circle is determined by the rim width. So, if you run a skinnier rim, you effectively decrease the circumference of the whole shebang. But, since you still have the same amount of tire, that circumference lost (relative to a wider rim) has only one place to go. It tends to help to think of the extreme situation. If you put a Nate on a 200mm wide rim (if that existed), that tire would have to be spread flat as a pancake. Now decrease that rim width down to 20mm, and that tire has to balloon out. Make sense?
    Yes, what you are saying is true; however, it is only true if the rim width exceeds the width of the casing. Once the rim width < tire casing, the height decreases. Since work was slow, I had 5 min to spare for some personal craft time. Let me go the other side of the extreme. What you see below is are two strips of paper of the same length (8.5"). As you can see, the full circle, depicting a super narrow rim, is shorter than the semi-circle, or rim width = to casing width.

    But yes, real world height difference is not anything significant.

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-tiredem.jpg

  14. #214
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    That's not going to work the same way on a tire, unless the center tread line of the tire is going to magically become longer, and that can't happen. If you increase the radius of the tire, you increase the circumference, and tires don't stretch quite that much.

  15. #215
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    Hold the tire in your hand to see the difference. Push the beads together and the center threadline moves outwards (narrow rim). Pull the beads outwards and the center threadline moves inwards (wide rim).

    Our good friends over at 45NRTH have included overall diameter on 100/82/65 rims as a part of their tire geometry chart.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-tire-geometry_hires.jpg  

    Espen Wethe
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  16. #216
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    <sarcasm>oh noes, my bike is 4mm taller when I run a skinny rim!</sarcasm>

    Fat tire O.D. means next to nothing, BB height and trail numbers probably change by an inch or more when you sit on the bike due to low tire pressure, if you're running 20# of air in fat tires you can probably ignore this

    I'm willing to bet that even though the blackborow was designed around a 5" fat tire, a regular 29er tire will put the BB at the same height (with rider on the bike in both scenarios) due to the changes in tire pressure and compression of the tire from rider weight
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  17. #217
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    Yep, compressed height differences mean next to nothing at low pressures, but for bikes that have clearance issues due to circumference, it could mean the difference between rubbing and not rubbing (under the fork crown, for example)
    Espen Wethe
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  18. #218
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    Yeah, ultimately, who cares?! Back on topic, I love that forest service green on the DS. But a DS wouldn't work where I live. It would be rad if they do a geared bike that color.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    Yeah, ultimately, who cares?! Back on topic, I love that forest service green on the DS. But a DS wouldn't work where I live. It would be rad if they do a geared bike that color.
    The DS is ready for gears, I believe. Just need shifters, cassette and derailer, so it should be fairly easy to convert. May need a derailer hanger as well. I'd like to find a DS on closeout later this season and do this.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Yep, compressed height differences mean next to nothing at low pressures, but for bikes that have clearance issues due to circumference, it could mean the difference between rubbing and not rubbing (under the fork crown, for example)
    Agreed, but this is blackborow, blackborow don't care, it takes the big-uns


    Quote Originally Posted by 2:01 View Post
    The DS is ready for gears, I believe. Just need shifters, cassette and derailer, so it should be fairly easy to convert. May need a derailer hanger as well. I'd like to find a DS on closeout later this season and do this.
    this was covered a few pages back, I did mine, couldn't get a frameset in my size at the time so I bought the DS

    shifters, derailers, cable/housing, cassette, outer OD chainring (surly SS ring is too wide for 10 speed chain), inner ring if you don't want to run the 26, right side alternator dropout with derailer mounting hole, and the problem solvers front derailer mount for moonlander
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2:01 View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	TireDem.jpg 
Views:	144 
Size:	34.3 KB 
ID:	965476
    My Blackborow would totally own this. Talkin' serious smash.


    This thread needs more pics. Especially you DS doods! More pics until they see that Blackborow was born to rule them all !!! Ahahahahahaha!!!

    C'mon gimme some candy...

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    Agreed, but this is blackborow, blackborow don't care, it takes the big-uns




    this was covered a few pages back, I did mine, couldn't get a frameset in my size at the time so I bought the DS

    shifters, derailers, cable/housing, cassette, outer OD chainring (surly SS ring is too wide for 10 speed chain), inner ring if you don't want to run the 26, right side alternator dropout with derailer mounting hole, and the problem solvers front derailer mount for moonlander
    I totally know you could get the frame or a full DS and put gears on it, but that's a pricier way to do it.

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    Narrow rim=taller tire. I was fvcking right! Fvck off enginerds!

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    Lou on a 100, left. Nate on a 65, right. I put a level across the top of the big one and measured down to the top of the little one and it was just over an inch, so let's say 26mm. Half of that is your BB drop, so 13mm.

    Attachment 958694

    Attachment 958695

    I'm sure you'll want to argue with me, as you have the idea pretty well set in your mind that the tire/rim combos are the same height, so go crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Hold the tire in your hand to see the difference. Push the beads together and the center threadline moves outwards (narrow rim). Pull the beads outwards and the center threadline moves inwards (wide rim).

    Our good friends over at 45NRTH have included overall diameter on 100/82/65 rims as a part of their tire geometry chart.
    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    Narrow rim=taller tire. I was fvcking right! Fvck off enginerds!

    rog
    Well, there's photographic, real world evidence, or there's a manufacturer's chart....who you going to believe...

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    I totally know you could get the frame or a full DS and put gears on it, but that's a pricier way to do it.
    I'm into mine for less than a blackborow 1, running an almost identical build 2x10 X9, thomson stem and post, bike swaps and online sales are a wonderful thing
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  26. #226
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    Salsa expansion. Blackborow

    Quote Originally Posted by 2whl-hoop View Post
    Well, there's photographic, real world evidence, or there's a manufacturer's chart....who you going to believe...
    The chart. At these rim widths, the trend shown on the chart is mathematically expected. At 0 vs 100 mm rim widths, the opposite is expected. Several posters brought up the fact that this variation in diameter requires the tire to stretch. We are talking less than half a percent elongation, which I have no question is possible; think about the difference in width that 5 vs 20psi can make.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2whl-hoop View Post
    Well, there's photographic, real world evidence, or there's a manufacturer's chart....who you going to believe...
    that's not a proper comparison. 4.8 on a 100 vs 4.8 on a 65. 4.8 on 65 is taller. put that in yer pipe and smoke it!

    my 3.8 are taller on my 65's vs my 80's. way less pedal striking on my 65's

    rog

  28. #228
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    This tire argument has grown rather old. Back to Blackborow talk please.
    Been too cold for me too get out lately but a break in the weather this weekend I'm gonna check out some groomed singletrack in Rockford, Il. I've been itching to get back on the bike, couldn't be happier with purchase so far.

  29. #229
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    i wanna blackborrow ds, i really do. nearly 100 inches of new snow in less than 4 weeks on the maine coast has really harshed on our riding mellow tho. 2 more storms on the way.

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    that's not a proper comparison. 4.8 on a 100 vs 4.8 on a 65. 4.8 on 65 is taller. put that in yer pipe and smoke it!

    my 3.8 are taller on my 65's vs my 80's. way less pedal striking on my 65's

    rog
    Well, that's what you were originally comparing: 3.8s on 65s vs. 5s on 100s...starting around post 157 or so....

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2whl-hoop View Post
    Well, that's what you were originally comparing: 3.8s on 65s vs. 5s on 100s...starting around post 157 or so....
    rog is a new dad. he can' remember back 3 pages, much less 1 page...



    (been there, done that...)

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2whl-hoop View Post
    Well, there's photographic, real world evidence, or there's a manufacturer's chart....who you going to believe...
    It's not a rubber tire of various thicknesses on a metal rim. It's paper in a loop.

    Real vs. ideal.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    Lou on a 100, left. Nate on a 65, right. I put a level across the top of the big one and measured down to the top of the little one and it was just over an inch, so let's say 26mm. Half of that is your BB drop, so 13mm.

    Attachment 958694

    Attachment 958695

    I'm sure you'll want to argue with me, as you have the idea pretty well set in your mind that the tire/rim combos are the same height, so go crazy.
    quoted for reference for the numbers and the pictures. these are different tires on different rims. which is where this all started somewhere even before spovegas took the photos and measured.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmike View Post
    rog is a new dad. he can' remember back 3 pages, much less 1 page...



    (been there, done that...)
    HA! Don't mind me

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    HA! Don't mind me

    rog
    It gets better once they are older. Sort of....

    😴

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmike View Post
    It gets better once they are older. Sort of....

    Thanx. I think.















































    Lovin every minute of it!

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmike View Post
    It gets better once they are older. Sort of....
    bmike, I assume yer talkin' about the unshakeable feeling that a small merciless alien life form now rules your existence. Yea you get used to it. Beer and whiskey both help.

    Yea rog, dadlife. Wouldn't trade it. Congrats btw.

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    thank you

    amazing what each new day brings.

    if you'da asked me what i thought about having kids when i was in my 30's, i woulda said "never, no interest". 42 now and it's perfect. couldn't imagine life without her.

    if i don't get a ds this year i surely hope they continue with that color or offer one in pink next year. love pink bikes.

    rog

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    Availability for the DS has looked foggy from here all season. Woulda done it.

    If no leftovers, there'll be folks who bit on the dingle and the big rubber and are thinkin' naw not for me...best sell this snow-only-barely-ridden-lung-puffer asap and get that plastic number with the 182.63327mm rearend on weightless fourfourninetyeight slowmedowns on 86s...

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by frozenmonkey View Post
    Availability for the DS has looked foggy from here all season. Woulda done it.

    If no leftovers, there'll be folks who bit on the dingle and the big rubber and are thinkin' naw not for me...best sell this snow-only-barely-ridden-lung-puffer asap and get that plastic number with the 182.63327mm rearend on weightless fourfourninetyeight slowmedowns on 86s...
    ^^^Rad post fm, not sure about an actual lol, but it put a huge smile on my face.

    and rog, don't go getting all sentimental. It's out of character and confuses the hell out of us. But yeah, gotta agree that kids are amazing.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    ^^^Rad post fm, not sure about an actual lol, but it put a huge smile on my face.
    I'm as guilty as anybody around here for geeking out and lusting after the sh*t-ton of fatty tech that's landed in the last year or so...
    Last edited by frozenmonkey; 02-21-2015 at 12:03 AM. Reason: punkshuayshun

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    . . . and I'm as guilty as anyone for letting the lust rule me and dropping cash that I have no business dropping. But hey, you only go around once, so you gotta ride both your finances and your bike hard. Or at least that's my justification.

    They say you can't take it with you, and I'm making damn sure of that.

  43. #243
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    Finally...

    I have my Blackborow 1... Unfortunatly, I hurt my back and won't be able to ride it before a week or so... Anyway I'm outside town next week for work.

    This bike looks like a monster truck (XL)! Just shy of 35 pounds with pedals (bathroom scale). Hope to drop a pound with Q-tube and another one going 1x eventually

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3391.jpgSalsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3392.jpgSalsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3393.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Hold the tire in your hand to see the difference. Push the beads together and the center threadline moves outwards (narrow rim). Pull the beads outwards and the center threadline moves inwards (wide rim).

    Our good friends over at 45NRTH have included overall diameter on 100/82/65 rims as a part of their tire geometry chart.
    I'll just add this for food for thought, and will go away. This is from HED.


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    I've had my Blackborow for about a couple months and installed a Blackburn outpost fat bike rack and Outpost cargo cage.

    The rack is a universal fit, has tons of adjustments to make it fit just about anything. I find the fit to be kinda sloppy on this bike, if the frame allowed I could easily clear 8" tires with this rack... That is with the adjustments in their lowest setting height wise, and narrowest setting width wise. If the bike had the normal rack mounts, it would probably work/look better. I ordered the Salsa alternator rack hardware kit, and the seat post clamp with rack mount. With all bolts tightened it feels pretty solid.
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_20150227_183312.jpg
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_20150227_183415.jpg
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_20150227_183354.jpg


    The Outpost cargo cage, I had to drill a hole at the top of the cage to be able to utilize all three bolts on the fork. The sleeping bag I had strapped to it is about as much as the straps could handle.

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_20150227_183257.jpg
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_20150227_183826.jpg
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_20150227_183838.jpg

    Overall I love this bike! Waiting for wolftooth 28t chainring to become available for 1x10. Got some I9 hubs (blue) and nextie 65mm snow leopards ("process blue" w/white nextie decals) on order, should be here early-mid April

  46. #246
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    The process blue nexties with white decals are gonna look awesome. Still trying to decide what I want to get for my summer bikepacking wheelset. Rabbit holes with 29 x 3" knards kinda has my attention.

  47. #247
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    For those who are running a Lou/lou combo, how have you mount the front and rear tire? Mine came from my lbs front: propulsion, rear: cornering. I mounted them the other way around while switching my stock tubes for something lighter.

  48. #248
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    Looking for a carbon fork, any suggestions?

  49. #249
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    I think Borealis has a 150mm spaced carbon fork.
    Quote Originally Posted by mkoskinen View Post
    Looking for a carbon fork, any suggestions?

  50. #250
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    the only one i have seen are 135mm?

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkoskinen View Post
    Looking for a carbon fork, any suggestions?
    Does the Salsa front hub convert to 135mm? Or really 142mm? Then you would have a lot of options.

  52. #252
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    The salsa front conversion hub in 135mm converts to 142 thru axle and to 150mm thru axle to accommodate a bluto. However, if you convert the 135 to 150 you must then re-dish the front wheel.
    An actual salsa 150mm hub does not convert down to 142 or 135 due to wider hub shell. So on the blackborow the stock front hub is 150mm therefore for easiest conversion to a carbon fork you need a 150mm spaced carbon fork.
    Which i did just see that framedbikes offers one:
    Alaskan Carbon Fork | Framed Bikes


    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    Does the Salsa front hub convert to 135mm? Or really 142mm? Then you would have a lot of options.

  53. #253
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    There is no carbon fork option yet that will maintain the same geometry, I'll be waiting
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  54. #254
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    Not mine but seen this for sale
    Salsa Blackborow DingleSpeed Fatbike wider tires mukluk beargrease

    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    There is no carbon fork option yet that will maintain the same geometry, I'll be waiting

  55. #255
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    Ah crap, that's definitely my size.

  56. #256
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    Salsa Blackborow small review

    Hi Guys

    After two short ride and a longer one yesterday, I have to say that I love my new BB! I was afraid that the bike would feel too long (XL) but it feels somewhat compact. I think the stem is on the long side though (110mm!) and I feel some pressure on my palm after longer time on the bike. Maybe going for an 80mm would be enough and/or getting some rise bar would solve this little problem.

    Really glad about the quality build as well: confy saddle, crisp shifting with X9 RD, thompson stem and seatpost. Not too fond of the BB7 brake. There ok but I think I will get some XT brake eventually.

    I was surprise how well the bike is handling in thight corner/slow speed maneuver, even if I read it before in this thread!!

    After my longer ride yesterday, it became clear that I would go the 1x route eventually. I did 2500 feet up and down and was almost 90% on the 22. I'm not in good shape right now after almost 7 month without riding regularly (injury, bike failure and winter time). Probably with a RF turbine cinch or Next SL, a small chain ring (26 winter and 30 summer) and a 40T at the back.

    I got the pressure down to about 5 psi. I'm afraid to pinch flat with those Q-tube SL alone in the middle of the forest. I will try to set the tire tubeless soon.

    Here's a few pics of my last ride:
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3442.jpgSalsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3443.jpgSalsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3448.jpgSalsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3435.jpgSalsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3438.jpg

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by LewisQC View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice looking bike. I have an XL mukluk and I swapped the stem for an 80mm and a RF turbine 3/4" riser and the fit is great, it's an awesome handling trail bike. Puts pugs to shame and even my friend's Yampa feels terrible compared to the Muk... it's the slack head tube of course.

  58. #258
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    Blackborow Pr0n

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-20150324_175533.jpg
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-20150324_175537.jpg
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-20150324_184657.jpg
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  59. #259
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    TitanofChaos - i'm liking your BB but i'm loving the -

    "Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't"


  60. #260
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    I love the bike more and more... Can't wait to ride it on the dirt! Hopefully still some crust riding in the next days...

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3494.jpgSalsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_3504.jpg

  61. #261
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    Amazed how the bike handled on some fast single track today. Could throw it around and traction was crazy. Thinking of going with knard 4.8's to save my Lou's for winter.
    Last edited by edved37; 04-05-2015 at 04:54 AM.

  62. #262
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    Any of you know of a Medium Blackborow DS for sale at your local shop?

  63. #263
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    Pretty sure there's a medium Blackborrow DS at Saturday Cycles here in SLC, Utah. Saturday Cycles Salt Lake City Utah Surly Salsa Bianchi Brooks Masi Haro Civia Brompton

  64. #264
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    Anybody with a 170mm cranks want to trade for 175mm? Brand new.

  65. #265
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    Can someone with a DS measure the chainstay length with the stock gearing? Thanks.

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2:01 View Post
    Can someone with a DS measure the chainstay length with the stock gearing? Thanks.
    depends how many chain links it comes with, mine was maybe 1/4" back from the min length
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10ford View Post
    Pretty sure there's a medium Blackborrow DS at Saturday Cycles here in SLC, Utah. Saturday Cycles Salt Lake City Utah Surly Salsa Bianchi Brooks Masi Haro Civia Brompton
    Already sold. D'oh!

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Already sold. D'oh!
    Damn! I was in the shop Tuesday and it was still available.

  69. #269
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    Has anyone with a DS changed the rear gearing to 19/23? I'm looking to do this for two purposes:

    1) Better HI gearing for trails. I find that 26x22 is just too low, as some of the trails have some flats that would suck majorly in Lo, and yet, 30x18 is just a tad too high for the climbs. I rode a 3-mile section last week that had ~1,300ft climbing, and it was brutal. 30x19 should give me a gearing that is slightly under my skinny tired 29er SS (32x20).

    2) Shorten the chainstay. This is my main question. Can you fit a 19/23 rear cogs without lengthening the chain? The Alternator is fairly close to the min adjustment range already. I don't know how much further I can push it forward. I don't have neither a 19 or 23T to try this out.

    Thanks for any input.

  70. #270
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    I am having a problem with my front thru-axle. It seems there's always a litlle bit of play. I went to my LBS this morning, they told me it looks like the axle don't have enough tread. So when it's thighten to the max, there's still a small play between fork and hub. My axle is a Rock-Shox. They will check with QBP if they encoutered the same problem on other bike and how to fix it. They told me it's safe to ride the bike like this for now...

    Anobody had the same problem?
    2015 Salsa Blackborow 1
    2013 Intense Spider Comp
    2009 Spec Tricross Sport

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2:01 View Post
    Has anyone with a DS changed the rear gearing to 19/23? I'm looking to do this for two purposes:

    1) Better HI gearing for trails. I find that 26x22 is just too low, as some of the trails have some flats that would suck majorly in Lo, and yet, 30x18 is just a tad too high for the climbs. I rode a 3-mile section last week that had ~1,300ft climbing, and it was brutal. 30x19 should give me a gearing that is slightly under my skinny tired 29er SS (32x20).

    2) Shorten the chainstay. This is my main question. Can you fit a 19/23 rear cogs without lengthening the chain? The Alternator is fairly close to the min adjustment range already. I don't know how much further I can push it forward. I don't have neither a 19 or 23T to try this out.

    Thanks for any input.
    30x19 and 32x20 are about the same so long as wheel diameter is similar

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by LewisQC View Post
    I am having a problem with my front thru-axle. It seems there's always a litlle bit of play. I went to my LBS this morning, they told me it looks like the axle don't have enough tread. So when it's thighten to the max, there's still a small play between fork and hub. My axle is a Rock-Shox. They will check with QBP if they encoutered the same problem on other bike and how to fix it. They told me it's safe to ride the bike like this for now...

    Anobody had the same problem?
    Did you try adjusting the small bolt that is under the lever? If it is to loose, it won't clamp down enough when you flip it closed.

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    Did you try adjusting the small bolt that is under the lever? If it is to loose, it won't clamp down enough when you flip it closed.
    Yes, at first I thought it would solve the problem. I've tighten the bolt untill I was unable to close the clamp, then clic by clic untighten it to the point where I could just barely close the clamp... Tech guys at my LBS meesed with it for 20 minutes without sucess either...
    2015 Salsa Blackborow 1
    2013 Intense Spider Comp
    2009 Spec Tricross Sport

  74. #274
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    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-img_1301.jpg

    Got some 4.8 Knards. According to bathroom scale weighing bike before and after lost about 2 lbs, didn't expect that at all scale may not be that accurate.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    30x19 and 32x20 are about the same so long as wheel diameter is similar
    Thank you for reiterating what I've already stated in my post.



    Well, got the 19 and 23T ordered. Hopefully, they'll fit with the dropouts slammed all the way forward.

  76. #276
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    A little project.

    Single speed here we come.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-16983595409_9687b99ed0_z.jpg  


  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Single speed here we come.
    That's gonna be sweet!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Single speed here we come.
    Nice. Love that bike. It'll be good to you. Curious to see where yours will tip the scale.

    High, medium, or low zoot to fill out the rest?

  79. #279
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    Anybody use 4" tires on theirs? Looking for a summer set up. Might try some 3.8" Knards. Hopefully not a lot of pedal strikes.

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by frozenmonkey View Post
    Nice. Love that bike. It'll be good to you. Curious to see where yours will tip the scale.

    High, medium, or low zoot to fill out the rest?
    Shouldn't weigh in to bad but I am not spending any coin on it, just kinda my salty road commuter bike. I will have a dropper on it because I have one and don't really feel like spending the money on a different post. That and my kids will use it that way I don't ever have to fuss with moving the saddle up and down. I might get out the router on the rims and lighten them up a tad, it's free and they are kinda pigish.

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2:01 View Post
    Anybody use 4" tires on theirs? Looking for a summer set up. Might try some 3.8" Knards. Hopefully not a lot of pedal strikes.
    i would totally run 3.8 knards on marge lites on a blackborrow. year round.

    you'll love the knards. i've ridden mine hard for a year now in every condition and they are fantastic tires. had record snows this winter and it lasted till a week ago and the knards rolled crazy good in the snow.

    on dirt they're ridiculous

  82. #282
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    Purchased mine last week from the good people at Saturday Cycles. Fantastic service.

    After one ride, I knew I would need to tweak the gearing, so purchased a 19T cog to replace the 18T. Unfortunately, Surly doesn't make a 23T, so an Endless is on order. Also added a couple of bits to replace the stock parts. Thomson set back seat post is also on the way. Overall, it is a fun bike. I love the geometry. With the current 30x19 gearing, the chainstay is right at 17.37 inches. The bike feels much more nimble than other fat bikes I've ridden, and the 5" tires are amazing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-bb1.jpg  

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-bb2.jpg  

    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-bb3.jpg  


  83. #283
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    must have ^^^^^^^ that bike.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    must have ^^^^^^^ that bike.
    But it doesn't have the most awesome ever cooker geometry

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    But it doesn't have the most awesome ever cooker geometry
    Oh, i'll make due. It could be any geo with that "colour"




















































    Fvcking love that color!!!

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2:01 View Post
    Anybody use 4" tires on theirs? Looking for a summer set up. Might try some 3.8" Knards. Hopefully not a lot of pedal strikes.
    funny, I was just doing some math on this, blackborow has the same BB drop as the beargrease, I'm going to throw on my 3.8 knards and hit the trails if it stops freaking raining
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I might get out the router on the rims and lighten them up a tad, it's free and they are kinda pigish.
    Yes! Among other projects around the house I need to finish up a table so I can give this a go on an original Large Marge. Just need to build a top to inset the plate.
    Please add new details to the main thread.

  88. #288
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    Anyone ridden 29+ on their blackborow yet, I'm pretty close to going ahead with a wheel build just wanted to see if anyone has any feel for this

    I'm still hoping for a fat pike or fox fork yet too, dream on
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Single speed here we come.
    I notice you have (what appears to be) a Turbine Cinch crank.

    Can you tell me if you went with the 170mm or 190mm spindle? RaceFace is telling me the 170mm spindle will work with the DM ring flipped, and while chainline for that DOES seem perfect (and Q-factor unreal), I'm seeing reports that the arms just barely clear the stays (and so little that it'd be dangerous to run).

    Asking because I've got a Blackborow frameset on order to complement my Muk.

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathanpierce View Post
    I notice you have (what appears to be) a Turbine Cinch crank.

    Can you tell me if you went with the 170mm or 190mm spindle? RaceFace is telling me the 170mm spindle will work with the DM ring flipped, and while chainline for that DOES seem perfect (and Q-factor unreal), I'm seeing reports that the arms just barely clear the stays (and so little that it'd be dangerous to run).

    Asking because I've got a Blackborow frameset on order to complement my Muk.
    Hmmmm...I don't have a 170 spindle here so I took out all the spacers and put a 1.5mm spacer in and slammed the crank over to each side and here is what I have for clearance. Basically what a 170 would look like clearance wise. I really need to get my hands on a 170 spindle or at least get the measurement from the outer faces on a 170 where the bearings ride to be for certain if a 170 would work though.Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-17059382160_111525304d_c.jpg
    Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-17039505087_c7b78e5f4b_c.jpg

  91. #291
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Hmmmm...I don't have a 170 spindle here so I took out all the spacers and put a 1.5mm spacer in and slammed the crank over to each side and here is what I have for clearance. Basically what a 170 would look like clearance wise. I really need to get my hands on a 170 spindle or at least get the measurement from the outer faces on a 170 where the bearings ride to be for certain if a 170 would work though.Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Interesting. I don't suppose you could take some measurements with your 190mm set up properly? If we had those measurements, we could just subtract 10mm from each side to get a good idea of the 170mm clearance...

    EDIT: Forgot to THANK YOU for your time

  92. #292
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    I have 15mm on each side to the closest spot set up 190 so that would only give 5mm which is too tight. But what I don't understand is the 2 pics above are set up exactly how a 170 would be but there is a lot more than 5mm clearance. I'm missing something and just need to get a 170 spindle in my paws. I do have one but it's 2 hours away right now.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I have 15mm on each side to the closest spot set up 190 so that would only give 5mm which is too tight. But what I don't understand is the 2 pics above are set up exactly how a 170 would be but there is a lot more than 5mm clearance. I'm missing something and just need to get a 170 spindle in my paws. I do have one but it's 2 hours away right now.
    Yeah, I would think without the spacers would simulate the 170 as well. FWIW, the RF diagram shows a 20mm Q-factor difference between their 170 and 190 spindles, so I think it does use the 20mm difference in actual spindle length.

    I've got a 170 spindle on my Mukluk. Haven't received my Blackborow frame yet, but I'm thinking I'll try the 170 when I do. Only problem is, I don't have a bottom bracket for the Bb yet, and I think I'm going to wait to order one until RF makes one with a proper spindle sleeve.

    What bracket are you running?

    EDIT: I'm sure you've seen the RF fatbike dimensions PDF, but the 170mm spindle with a flipped DM chainring produces an ideal 75mm chainline while keeping the Q-factor down to 202mm.

  94. #294
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    Oh yeah I've seen the pdf. I have installed more of these cinch cranks than I care to think about. I have run a few 170's on 190 frames with the ring flipped. A 170 set up goes as follows, bearing, dust shield, and a 1.5mm spacer on each side and the 190 is the same except for a 11.5mm spacer in the place of the 1.5mm spacer. Set up like a 170 with it shoved over with the proper 1.5mm spacer and dust shield I have 7-8mm on the non drive side. Tap it over to the drive side with the direct ring flopped and the dust shield and 1.5mm shim I have 9mm of chainstay clearance. With the 190 spindle on the Blackborrow I am not running the 11.5mm mm spacer on each side but a bunch of 1.5mm spacers, maybe 4 on each side. I'm not totally convinced that the 170 spindle will be long enough yet even though my measurements show it should be. I know I am missing something but I should have a 170 spindle in my hands soon enough to try out.

    As far as bb I just installed one without the sleeve for test fitting for now. I will prolly just extend the one I have if rf doesn't come out with one.

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Oh yeah I've seen the pdf. I have installed more of these cinch cranks than I care to think about. I have run a few 170's on 190 frames with the ring flipped. A 170 set up goes as follows, bearing, dust shield, and a 1.5mm spacer on each side and the 190 is the same except for a 11.5mm spacer in the place of the 1.5mm spacer. Set up like a 170 with it shoved over with the proper 1.5mm spacer and dust shield I have 7-8mm on the non drive side. Tap it over to the drive side with the direct ring flopped and the dust shield and 1.5mm shim I have 9mm of chainstay clearance. With the 190 spindle on the Blackborrow I am not running the 11.5mm mm spacer on each side but a bunch of 1.5mm spacers, maybe 4 on each side. I'm not totally convinced that the 170 spindle will be long enough yet even though my measurements show it should be. I know I am missing something but I should have a 170 spindle in my hands soon enough to try out.

    As far as bb I just installed one without the sleeve for test fitting for now. I will prolly just extend the one I have if rf doesn't come out with one.
    Good info; you sound like you have 100% more knowledge than I on the subject! Do me a favor, and let me know your findings on the 170 spindle when you get it (and I'll do the same if I get mine before you). And yeah, I'm hearing/reading that people are just foregoing the sleeve, but I'd like to have the added protection if possible! What's your idea to extend one? Just get two, cut, measure, and fuse together somehow?

  96. #296
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    This is what I did with one many moons ago. Didn't look to see if there is room for such a thing in the Blackborrow yet. Just epoxy and a couple of hose clamps till it sets up.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Salsa expansion.    Blackborow-bb.jpg  


  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    This is what I did with one many moons ago. Didn't look to see if there is room for such a thing in the Blackborrow yet. Just epoxy and a couple of hose clamps till it sets up.
    Love it. Again, please let me know your experiences if you do it on the Bb.

  98. #298
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    My official stance after looking it all over and measuring the 170mm spindle will be about 10mm to short to work in the bottom bracket. A 100mm bsa bottom bracket comes out to about 121mm and is spot on for a 170 spindle the Blackborrow comes out to 132mm so even if one omits the 1.5mm shims it will still be 7-8mm to short.

  99. #299
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    How does the Q factor of the turbine compare to the Surly OD crank?
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  100. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    How does the Q factor of the turbine compare to the Surly OD crank?
    170mm Turbine is 202mm, 190mm Turbine is 222mm, and I believe OD is 212mm.

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