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  1. #1
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    Good job! Salsa Bucksaw - DB Inline shock, ShockWiz tuning

    Haven’t seen much related to using Cane Creek’s DB Inline shock on the Bucksaw, so I thought I’d share our experience (actually Mrs levity’s).

    We really liked how the twin tube DB Inline shock performed on “non-fat” bikes we’d owned - much smoother and more planted than standard single piston shocks. The DB Inline also allows for easy fine tuning with 4-way external adjustment of high and low speed compression (HSC and LSC) and rebound (HSR and LSR) damping. How would it do on the Bucksaw?

    Details: Mrs levity’s 2016 carbon Bucksaw is set up with a 100mm Bluto fork and she’s running 26x4 Jumbo Jim liteskin tires on 60mm inner width rims, usually at ~9psi. She’s a light rider (110 lb) so the shock was set to 96 psi to give 13mm sag (30%). No spacers were used in the air can to make the travel more progressive because the split-pivot linkage on the Bucksaw gives a more-or-less constant leverage ratio from 10-100% travel. The neutral factory settings that the shock came with were actually pretty close. Small changes were made in the HSC and LSC settings to make it a bit plusher, HSR was opened some for a bit more pop, and LSR was closed some for a little more pedaling platform. The result was great! The bike rode much better than it did with the OEM Monarch RT3 or with the DebonAir can upgrade she’d tried.




    About this time a buddy who works at a LBS got a Quarq ShockWiz and offered it to us so we could see how a seat-of-the-pants analysis compares to the Wiz’s more accurate pressure sensor. After a 2hr ride over a wide variety of terrain the Wiz gave a score of 88 (out of 100) based on the “Balanced” Tuning Option and recommended further softening of HSC and LSC. She decided to first try just reducing HSC damping another half turn to see what that did on the next ride. The screenshots of the ShockWiz app below show this turned out to be perfect, giving a score of 100 with 100% confidence!

    Final settings, turns/clicks from full open
    (the original neutral factory settings are given in parentheses):
    HSC 0.5 turn (2)
    LSC 6 clicks (7)
    HSR 1.5 turns (2)
    LSR 12 clicks (10)








    The suspension indeed seems dialed in for her riding. The bike is significantly smoother than it was with the Monarch or DebonAir, giving more travel while providing more control. Downhill speeds have increased, and technical climbs have become easier.

    The nice thing is that the settings on the DB Inline can easily be changed to tune the shock for different riding styles (ShockWiz calls these options Efficient, Balanced, Playful or Aggressive, and suggests adjustments to make for each). Not sure how the settings she used will work for heavier riders. The shock air pressure will of course have to be increased to get the proper sag, and spacers may be necessary to make travel resistance more progressive.

  2. #2
    All fat, all the time.
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    That's pretty cool. Wonder if you could"rent" a shockwiz ....

  3. #3
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    That's pretty cool. Wonder if you could"rent" a shockwiz ....
    I think that's the concept that some shops are applying to the thing. They aren't going to sell many with the pricetag on them, but if the shop buys one or two, and rents them out for a significantly smaller fee, they'll get a lot more mileage out of them. I'm trying to convince the owner of the shop where I work to do exactly that.

  4. #4
    All fat, all the time.
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    Yeah, I'd gladly rent one for $50/week. Likely would never pay $399 to own one.

  5. #5
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    levity, any feedback on the ShockWiz tuning the Bluto?
    Good? Marginal improvements?

  6. #6
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    hey bme107,

    I didn’t get to try the Wiz on the Bluto, but I did use it on the Fox fork on my Pivot 429 Trail. The Wiz didn’t recommend any changes to my tuning. Forks are easier to dial in because unlike rear travel linkages the suspension leverage ratio doesn’t change with travel. The rear suspension leverage on the Bucksaw is fairly linear thru travel so it’s pretty easy to tune as well.

    I did end up getting a Bucksaw of my own (!), and I’ve had a couple of rides to play with the suspension tuning.

    For the DB Inline shock I ended up with similar settings to those mrs levity used (see above) despite being 50 lb. heavier than her (of course, I set the sag using higher air pressure). My current settings are air pressure 123 lb. for 14mm (32%sag), HSC 0.5t, LSC 9c, HSR 3t, LSR 12c (turns or clicks from full open).

    For the Bluto RCT3 fork I tried 100, 110 and 120mm air shafts, and favor the latter. I’m using 85psi in the air side with just one spacer - I’m 160 lb. and found two tokens made travel too progressive. I ride with the HSC switch in the open position unless I’m on pavement and also have the LSC dial fully open (counterclockwise) to make it as supple a possible. I have the rebound dial opened just 2 clicks from fully closed - doesn’t seem to pack up with the fat tires giving enough bounce but I may need to play with this more. Mrs levity has the rebound open 8 clicks as she’s only running 60psi. Set up like this the Bluto is OK, but on bigger hits its not as nice as the 130mm travel Fox 34 FIT4 Factory fork on my Pivot. This is probably due to the extra travel of the Fox (and perhaps rear travel as well) but may also reflect some internal valving differences. I suppose I should try to borrow the Wiz again, but I'm not sure there’s much to be gained unless my current rebound setting is too slow.

    It would be interesting to hear what settings others are using with the Bluto on a Bucksaw.

  7. #7
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    I think I need this Shockwiz. If it saves a lot of time and is easy and gives idiot-proof best performance tuning I'd gladly fork over the cash. Then loan it out to friends or even rent it out on Spinlister.
    Edit: Only one was left on Amazon $399 free shipping so I panic-impulse bought it. Will report back.

  8. #8
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudeist View Post
    I think I need this Shockwiz. If it saves a lot of time and is easy and gives idiot-proof best performance tuning I'd gladly fork over the cash. Then loan it out to friends or even rent it out on Spinlister.
    Edit: Only one was left on Amazon $399 free shipping so I panic-impulse bought it. Will report back.
    I've been pretty tempted to buy one. Oh so tempted. There's a prospect of 2 more mtb's added to the stable this year, and I'm just feeling that something like this will be pretty useful to get suspension setups dialed on 4 bikes with air shocks and wildly different setups.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by levity View Post
    It would be interesting to hear what settings others are using with the Bluto on a Bucksaw.
    Thanks. Not that my set up is good, thus inquiring about the Wiz, but I only have 1/2 the info off the top of my head. I'll count the clicks and get back to the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I've been pretty tempted to buy one. Oh so tempted. ...... I'm just feeling that something like this will be pretty useful to get suspension setups dialed on 4 bikes with air shocks and wildly different setups.
    That's exactly it. I'm not a professional and assume I can fiddle with the settings all day and never maximize any one bike. They may all have inherently different suspension feels as well.

    Not to mention setting up my son's Fuel EX for him.

  10. #10
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    Bought a shockwiz should be here Wednesday. I will do review once I get it and try it.
    Camber Expert Carbon EVO Salsa Carbon Bucksaw

  11. #11
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    So finally I got the chance to use the ShockWiz. Lets start with me:

    6'3
    210 loaded out
    tire pressure 8lbs front, 9lbs rear
    Initial Bluto setup, No spacers, 115 lbs air, rebound at 0 clicks (slow), low speed 0 clicks

    1st ride results, forgot to do a screen capture, reduce air pressure, add spacers, make high speed compression softer, rebound was good, low speed compression good, remove bottom out resistance.
    1st ride changes: added 2 spacers, dropped air to 75 lbs
    Bike feel after changes: definitely a more active suspension, still 2 hard I could really feel it in the rock gardens, in turns especially berms could feel the bike load the suspension in the turns and feel it releasing on the exits really good feel.

    After 2nd ride results:
    Salsa Bucksaw - DB Inline shock, ShockWiz tuning-shockwiz1.jpg

    Changes:
    added 1 more spacer and dropped the air down to 66 lbs

    I have not ridden since the above change. Hopefully I will get to ride today.

    Thoughts on the shockwiz:

    It works as advertised. The changes it suggested made a noticeable difference in the Fork. The shockwiz is pretty straight forward however with anything it takes a moment to get used to it. Do you need a shockwiz? No. Is it a great learning tool? Absolutely!!! I have been riding for just over 3 years so suspension tuning is not something I am very knowledgeable about. I generally set sag and ride. However with the shockwiz I started to understand how the changes I made effected the feel of the bike.

    My main takeaways so far are:
    My shock was setup way wrong (lack of knowledge aka user error). The shockwiz will give you baseline setting and get you pretty close to how you want the bike to perform (within a click or 2). However the end result will always be rider preference. Should you buy one? Probably not . (Yes if your a gadget guy). Should you rent one. Absolutely.
    Camber Expert Carbon EVO Salsa Carbon Bucksaw

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladConnery View Post
    So finally I got the chance to use the ShockWiz. Lets start with me:

    6'3
    210 loaded out
    tire pressure 8lbs front, 9lbs rear
    Initial Bluto setup, No spacers, 115 lbs air, rebound at 0 clicks (slow), low speed 0 clicks

    1st ride results, forgot to do a screen capture, reduce air pressure, add spacers, make high speed compression softer, rebound was good, low speed compression good, remove bottom out resistance.
    1st ride changes: added 2 spacers, dropped air to 75 lbs
    Bike feel after changes: definitely a more active suspension, still 2 hard I could really feel it in the rock gardens, in turns especially berms could feel the bike load the suspension in the turns and feel it releasing on the exits really good feel.

    After 2nd ride results:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ShockWiz1.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	36.7 KB 
ID:	1139477

    Changes:
    added 1 more spacer and dropped the air down to 66 lbs

    I have not ridden since the above change. Hopefully I will get to ride today.

    Thoughts on the shockwiz:

    It works as advertised. The changes it suggested made a noticeable difference in the Fork. The shockwiz is pretty straight forward however with anything it takes a moment to get used to it. Do you need a shockwiz? No. Is it a great learning tool? Absolutely!!! I have been riding for just over 3 years so suspension tuning is not something I am very knowledgeable about. I generally set sag and ride. However with the shockwiz I started to understand how the changes I made effected the feel of the bike.

    My main takeaways so far are:
    My shock was setup way wrong (lack of knowledge aka user error). The shockwiz will give you baseline setting and get you pretty close to how you want the bike to perform (within a click or 2). However the end result will always be rider preference. Should you buy one? Probably not . (Yes if your a gadget guy). Should you rent one. Absolutely.
    Well, for the money of a shockwiz, you could get custom tuned suspension, although renting the wiz sounds like a good idea for many people.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Well, for the money of a shockwiz, you could get custom tuned suspension, although renting the wiz sounds like a good idea for many people.
    ^^Very true.

    The only problem with that is you need to know what you want or prefer in a custom tuned suspension. Otherwise it's a custom suspension for someone else or someone elses idea of what custom should be. I would rent a shockwiz first and understands what you like and don't like first. Then have a custom suspension done up.

  14. #14
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    Hey Vlad,

    Good to hear that the Wiz helped you set up your fork. Is yours the RCT3 model? Are you using the 100mm travel air shaft?

    I'm “shocked” by the low air pressure (66 psi) you settled on. My riding weight is about 40 lb. less than you, and I run 85 psi to get ~22% sag. Did the Shockwiz calibration procedure go as expected? It’s surprising that it asked you to remove air when you were at 75 psi. Have you rechecked your sag with the HSC and LSC open?

    If you do increase the air pressure you may also find that two spacers are sufficient.

    Assuming that you were riding with the HSC switch fully open I’m also surprised that it asked you to make it softer.

    I’d suggest repeating the Shockwiz calibration procedure and making note of the compression ratio it reports. Then ride again and see what it reports.


    Here’s a link to the “Shockwiz Zendesk” that may help with tuning:

    https://shockwiz.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...suspension-has

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the report Levity. I see Jenson has these on sale for $200. Seems like a steal to me but I'm not familiar with the shock. Did you need any special pieces to mount this to your Bucksaw?

  16. #16
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    BeRad,

    Mounting the DB Inline shock on the Bucksaw is straight forward, took me about 20 min. The Cane Creek DB Inline uses the same diameter mounting pins as Fox and Rockshox, so you can just push them out of the Monarch and into the DB Inline.

    Pin fit in the eyelet bushings is snug. I used two sockets, a deep one large enough for the pin to push into and one just a bit smaller than the pin to push it out. I tapped it out and in with a mallet using a wood dowel to prevent burring or any other damage. I also found that it helped to oil the pins before pushing them out, before back into the bushings, and again before pushing them back into the bike frame.

    Before mounting the DB Inline you might also remove the bottom clip on the shock and lower the air can to check for spacers (there should be none). Put some grease on the o-rings when you push the can back up and then it will be easier to remove if you need to add spacers later with it on the bike.

    Be sure to check full shock travel with no air to make sure everything is smooth and there is no interference anywhere. It also helps to mark how far the o-ring goes at full travel (43-44mm) so you can see at a glance how much travel you've used.

    Then have fun!

  17. #17
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    Thank you! 😀

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeRad View Post
    Thanks for the report Levity. I see Jenson has these on sale for $200. Seems like a steal to me but I'm not familiar with the shock. Did you need any special pieces to mount this to your Bucksaw?
    Saw that as well and impulse purchased since it has been on my long term list for the Bucksaw.

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