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  1. #1
    Just A Mountain Biker.
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    Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Fat curious after a couple of test rides, torn between Fat & 29+. As far as fat, with all of the new tech coming out and it changing so fast, is a 2014 Pugsley still a good option? With things like hub spacing, tire width restrictions, rear wheel offset due to 135mm hub seeming to be evolving, I don't want to buy "old tech" and regret it. I know the bike is probably heavy (any weight info for a medium would be great), but this would be for a 2nd bike to jack around on when I am not on my VerHauen. So I don't need the latest and greatest everything, but I don't want ot regret my purchase. 2014 Krampus & Pugsley are on blowout at my LBS, so I'd like to make a decision fairly quickly.

    Riding in AZ, so more sand and desert singletrack than anything else. Would like to bikepack at some point. If I missed anything let me know.
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  2. #2
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    Pugsley will always be a safe bet- they're the cockroaches of the bike world (and I mean that in the best way)- drop an atom bomb on one and everything around it will melt or mutate into a recumbent, the pugs will ride away unscratched.

    Only thing I'd say about the pugs is, they are not worth full price. If you can get the price nearer to $1000 than $1700, go for it.

  3. #3
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    Pugsley was one of the first, and is undoubtedly one of the best, if not THE best fat bike that you can buy.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Fat curious after a couple of test rides, torn between Fat & 29+. As far as fat, with all of the new tech coming out and it changing so fast, is a 2014 Pugsley still a good option? With things like hub spacing, tire width restrictions, rear wheel offset due to 135mm hub seeming to be evolving, I don't want to buy "old tech" and regret it. I know the bike is probably heavy (any weight info for a medium would be great), but this would be for a 2nd bike to jack around on when I am not on my VerHauen. So I don't need the latest and greatest everything, but I don't want ot regret my purchase. 2014 Krampus & Pugsley are on blowout at my LBS, so I'd like to make a decision fairly quickly.

    Riding in AZ, so more sand and desert singletrack than anything else. Would like to bikepack at some point. If I missed anything let me know.
    There is no doubt that the Pugsley is "old tech". Whether or not you'll regret it is something I can't answer. I don't regret my Pugs.

    Based on your intended use the only real issue I see is that the Pugs can't take a tapered fork like the Bluto. If you are cool with running rigid or going with something obscure like a Lefty than you are fine.

    I've got a Pugs from back in 2008. It was a great bike back then and it's still a great bike. It's hanging on my wall at the moment as I don't live somewhere that's very fat friendly, but when I head to the beach next or have a trip planned to some place with snow I'll pull it down and it will rock and roll dependably like always.

    My GF's Pugs is getting transformed to a 29+ bikepacking rig this winter. If I didn't already own a Krampus I'd do the same with mine and use it more regularly.
    Safe riding,

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  5. #5
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    as has been said previously not worth retail, but like 1K

  6. #6
    rth009
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    Ive never ridden a Krampus, but if I was in AZ and wasn't planning on riding snow, Id go for the Krampus (assuming it fit me and I liked the way it rode in the LBS parking lot).

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    Ive never ridden a Krampus, but if I was in AZ and wasn't planning on riding snow, Id go for the Krampus (assuming it fit me and I liked the way it rode in the LBS parking lot).
    The thing with the Krampus is that *in my mind* it doesn't open up any new trail possibilities for me. It just become a bigger, heavier, longer version of my 29"er. I liked it in the parking lot, but came away from it kind of "meh". Didn't love it, didn't hate it, didn't feel the need to rush right out. Now the fat Farley I rode was a different story, I was blasting sand washes and had a permagrin the entire time. Enough to make me want to look into it more, but not go broke in the process.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    The thing with the Krampus is that *in my mind* it doesn't open up any new trail possibilities for me. It just become a bigger, heavier, longer version of my 29"er. I liked it in the parking lot, but came away from it kind of "meh". Didn't love it, didn't hate it, didn't feel the need to rush right out. Now the fat Farley I rode was a different story, I was blasting sand washes and had a permagrin the entire time. Enough to make me want to look into it more, but not go broke in the process.
    How fat of a tire do you run on your VerHauen? Is it rigid? If you are already riding 2.4s and rigid, you are probably right, that the Krampus wouldn't open much up. I was thinking the krampus might be good enough for desert sand and . . . Pugsley's are pigs. Krampus is far more sexy. Ive got a 29er hardtail with 2.4s and a Mukluk with Nate/Bud, so Ive got Krampus envy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    How fat of a tire do you run on your VerHauen? Is it rigid? If you are already riding 2.4s and rigid, you are probably right, that the Krampus wouldn't open much up. I was thinking the krampus might be good enough for desert sand and . . . Pugsley's are pigs. Krampus is far more sexy. Ive got a 29er hardtail with 2.4s and a Mukluk with Nate/Bud, so Ive got Krampus envy.
    I run a 2.35" on my front-suspended VerHauen. Truth is I could go rigid on it, just haven't felt compelled to spend $500 on a Whisky fork when the extra couple of pounds on my suspended fork doesn't bother me.

    I don't think the Krampus makes that much sense for what I want, which is something "different". I wasn't impressed in the sand as much as I thought I would be, and those extra big wheels/tires are harder to turn over in those soft conditions. With a FAT I think I am more apt to do some exploring, head out on some of the older moto desert trails and see what's off the beaten path. If I was looking for a gravel grinder or longer distance "comfort mileage" I would definitely go for the Krampus.

    But who knows, I could stumble into the shop and have a moment of weakness and end up with a Krampus anyways because I am schizophrenic like that...
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  10. #10
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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    The thing with the Krampus is that *in my mind* it doesn't open up any new trail possibilities for me. It just become a bigger, heavier, longer version of my 29"er. I liked it in the parking lot, but came away from it kind of "meh". Didn't love it, didn't hate it, didn't feel the need to rush right out. Now the fat Farley I rode was a different story, I was blasting sand washes and had a permagrin the entire time. Enough to make me want to look into it more, but not go broke in the process.
    This is very true. It's simply a different riding experience. At least that's how I feel about mine.
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  11. #11
    rth009
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post

    I don't think the Krampus makes that much sense for what I want, which is something "different". I wasn't impressed in the sand as much as I thought I would be, and those extra big wheels/tires are harder to turn over in those soft conditions. With a FAT I think I am more apt to do some exploring, head out on some of the older moto desert trails and see what's off the beaten path. If I was looking for a gravel grinder or longer distance "comfort mileage" I would definitely go for the Krampus.

    But who knows, I could stumble into the shop and have a moment of weakness and end up with a Krampus anyways because I am schizophrenic like that...
    Well that settles it, you definitely want/need a fat bike. But I'd keep saving though and get something better than a Pugs, especially now that we appear to have entered the golden age of fat bikes.

  12. #12
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    Pugs is what it is. Some actually LIKE the idiosyncracies of it, or the connection to the early days. I look forward to riding mine until I can no longer ride anything.
    For me the biggest draw is the fact that it's steel, and outdated technology; in my eyes a carbon bike with a scratched and a beat chainstay protector looks tragic. An aluminum bike in the same situation looks abused, but a steel bike with battle scars from end-to-end looks well-loved. Your opinion may be different.

    There will probably always be a market for the Pugsley, but it will evolve into a niche thing, and Surly may one day stop offering completes. But the fat market will remain, and there will be abundant $600 bikes. You'll be old and decrepit before 135 hubs and offset-drilled rims are hard to find.

    My advice? Compare the geometry with bikes you have loved, and dont spend too much time worrying about the weight if you're a recreational rider. Rent one and ride the heck our of it. Then decide.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Pugsley will always be a safe bet- they're the cockroaches of the bike world (and I mean that in the best way)- drop an atom bomb on one and everything around it will melt or mutate into a recumbent, the pugs will ride away unscratched.

    Only thing I'd say about the pugs is, they are not worth full price. If you can get the price nearer to $1000 than $1700, go for it.
    +1. If you can get it for close to $1k-1200 AND you really like your LBS, go for it. Otherwise, the X9 Boris or Lurch, from Bikesdirect.com is a better value.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    +1. If you can get it for close to $1k-1200 AND you really like your LBS, go for it. Otherwise, the X9 Boris or Lurch, from Bikesdirect.com is a better value.
    But not yet available ~ correct?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    But not yet available ~ correct?
    Mid august, iirc. They've been pretty good about delivering on time, too.

  16. #16
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    The pugs is a great bike for trails. My wife and I have had Mukluks for about 2 !/2 years now and She got a pugsley this spring. We built hers up from a frameset so it's a little different from what is available. The Pugs is more nimble handling than my first gen Mukluk. It has a very neutral feel when on dirt. The 3.8 tires on Marge Light rims are perfect for sand. We used to ride (10-15 years ago) in the Anza Borrego desert and could only dream of that kind of floatation. Now we live in the Utah Mountains and use our fat bikes in snow and occasionally dirt trails. I am waiting to build a RSD Mutant which is similar to a Krampus, I like the rolling of the 29+. I think you would be well served by either one. Ride both and choose your favorite.

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    Like a dumb-ass, I sold my first Pugs to pursue the next greatest thing- a light weight first-year Beargrease with all the bells and whistles, and quickly found how much I missed the Pugs, so I ended up getting another one. Along the way I had to get 2 additional one for my wife and daughter because they liked riding mine so much.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuxdiesel View Post
    I had to get 2 additional one for my wife and daughter because they liked riding mine so much.
    Is there room for any more family members? I'm respectful and appreciative...
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  19. #19
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    I have a beargrease carbon, and I still miss my pugs on a regular basis. The geo/feel of of the pugsley is dialed. I loved that bike and regret selling it.

    If you want a fatbike for fun, don't hesitate.

    Seems like the Ice Cream Truck is another great option too.

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    I just finished building my new Pugs. I picked it over other fat options for a few reasons:

    Steel
    Braze-ons galore (Touring, bikepacking, & commuting options and more options.)
    Steel
    Looks (Yes, I love the looks.)
    Steel
    Old tech (I'm a retrogrouch at heart. (My Pug will end up with cotton bar tape and shellac.) I was away from cycling for 25+ years, so a Pugsley and everything about it still seems radically new to me. It bugs me that a ten or so year old design would be obsolete.)
    Steel
    Durability (See the delightful cockroach analogy above.)
    Steel
    Beausage (See the comment above on how carbon and aluminum age, versus how steel ages.)
    Steel
    All rigid (I have no desire to ride a bike with squish, for various reasons that matter to me.)
    Steel
    Weight (Huh? Does anyone worry about weight?)
    Steel
    Handling (I can pop wheelies on it! What fun!)
    Steel

    In the end, get what you like. You're the one who will be riding what you get, not the rest of us. If you enjoy new tech for it's own sake, or new tech brings abilities that you value, then get something more "modern" than a Pugsley.

    Don't worry about what a bike is worth to other people. ($1,000 or $1,700?) Ask what it's worth to you.

    My $0.02.

    Happy trails.
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  21. #21
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    Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Well, the wife gave me the green light and expanded the budget a bit, so I am going to shop around a little more and make sure I am getting all the bang for my buck I can. I do consider the pugs as the front runner, I love the utility of it as spinymouse said, as well as the steel aspect. No matter how sexy I think the Fat Boy Expert is, I'm not sure it's worth it (to me) to go up that much in price. I want to keep this sub 2k, but get something I really like and won't want to sell in 2 months.
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  22. #22
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    You should be able to get a complete Pugs for around $1600, or you could venture into building one frame-up, which gets you exactly what you want. You can pick and chose what is important to you (I wanted offset fork, CC 40 headset and Hope hubs, everything else is less important to me) and still be pretty close to the MSRP.

  23. #23
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    You can probably get a much better frame with 170 or 190 spacing these days but buying a complete bike from one of the various large mfrs now making fat bikes and benefiting from economy of scale.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    I love my pugsley. I ride it year round and have for the nearly 3 years I have had it. It is old tech, but it is standard bike stuff, that any bike shop should have, in case you need it. On the other hand, since I got my krampus I have hardly touched my pugs, which makes me sad. The krampus suffers in the snow, it is not quite fat enough, but the krampus is like a Ferrari on anything but snow, when compared to the pugsley.
    I don't do drugs. I am drugs.

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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Pugsley is the go-to for those that value practicality, versatility, longevity, character, and fun over all.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridefat1981 View Post
    I love my pugsley. I ride it year round and have for the nearly 3 years I have had it. It is old tech, but it is standard bike stuff, that any bike shop should have, in case you need it. On the other hand, since I got my krampus I have hardly touched my pugs, which makes me sad. The krampus suffers in the snow, it is not quite fat enough, but the krampus is like a Ferrari on anything but snow, when compared to the pugsley.
    This is why a Pugsley with an extra set of 29+ wheels (KramPug) is such a great option. The Pugs was designed out of necessity, but the unplanned versatility is what makes it great.

  27. #27
    CS2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    You can probably get a much better frame with 170 or 190 spacing these days but buying a complete bike from one of the various large mfrs now making fat bikes and benefiting from economy of scale.
    What kind of frames are out there with the new spacing? I just saw a Pugsley at LBS. I was impressed. It just looked like it would fun. Do you really need hi tech to have fun?
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  28. #28
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    Definitely take a Pugs for a test ride. In short, I have a nice 907 and have had a blast the past couple of years on it but I have ridden a few pugs and every time I realize I should have bought a Pugs instead. Aluminum does ride different than steel and a rider can feel it even on a fat bike. Also, the use of 135mm hubs and other standard parts is a somewhat ignored feature of the Pugs (and Krampus for that matter). I do suspect that the original poster would be better off with the Pugs since it would take their riding in new directions as more of an explorer bike based on their desert location.

  29. #29
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    My single-speed Pugs will be my pit bike for CX this Fall. F-you, UCI

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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Quote Originally Posted by CS2 View Post
    Do you really need hi tech to have fun?
    Yes. Whenever I ride any one of my 4 steel bikes, I can't even enjoy myself over the sound of my bikes being old tech.

    That goes doubly for my Danish SCO Long John cargo bike. That design is over 100 years old, so as you can imagine, whenever I ride it I have a perpetual frown on my face from it being so low tech:

    My 1987 SCO Long John

  31. #31
    Big wheels keep on rollin
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    I'm in your same boat...nice 29er and wanting to try fat for desert rides and beach. I live at the beach in So Cal.
    I was thinking of 29+ but now I'm thinking of getting a 650B 35mm wheelset and the new WTB 2.8" 650B tire. It is designed to fit on any 29er that fits a 2.3" tire and give you 90% of the 29+ ride.
    So then, I'll probably get the fat bike, probably a Pugsley, as I like the steel/simplicity vibe and I have no need/want for snow riding.

    mike

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Yes. Whenever I ride any one of my 4 steel bikes, I can't even enjoy myself over the sound of my bikes being old tech.

    That goes doubly for my Danish SCO Long John cargo bike. That design is over 100 years old, so as you can imagine, whenever I ride it I have a perpetual frown on my face from it being so low tech:

    My 1987 SCO Long John
    That cargo bike is awesome!

    To the OP: Aside from the mystical properties of the frame material, I'm a big fan of the Pugs geometry. I sold my Pugs, but my Ti fatbike has almost the exact same geometry because it just feels right. I ride way more dirt than snow, if that matters.

  33. #33
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    I say get a Pugs! I am about the only one who doesn't care for the geo on the Pugs so that makes it like 10,000 to 1 in favor of

  34. #34
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    I love my pugs - I built mine for 1100 - with a good mix of parts.
    I have a set of p35s on my Vassago - which will be a 29er+ when I afford the knards!!
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  35. #35
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    Depends on the sort of riding that you do. The Pugsley's a great bike, but there are other bikes out there that handle differently. I've just got a Puffin and, for me and the riding that I do I much prefer the way it handles.
    If you need me I'll be at the bar

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I say get a Pugs! I am about the only one who doesn't care for the geo on the Pugs so that makes it like 10,000 to 1 in favor of
    You're not the only one. I couldn't stand the steep hta, the weight or the way the frame flexed. I think I'm the only one who doesn't think steel is a virtue in a frame. I'm much happier with my 9:Zero:7 and don't miss my Pugsley. At. All.

  37. #37
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    Yup H/A is to steep for me as well. I still use one to haul the Burley around but can't stand it.

  38. #38
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    Pugsley still a safe bet?-photo.jpg
    I spent some time on some more fats yesterday, really liking the Pugs the more I ride and read about it. I thought the offset thing would bother me (not sure why just thought it would look funny and create a mental block) but it's pretty cool. I was worried about a 100mm stem (looks funny after looking at a 70mm for so long on other bikes but on the picture I don't look too stretched out. Its just something to get used to.

    I've spent time over the past few days comparing specs, models, prices and this particular bike, with the closeout deal is hard to beat. I'm not patient enough to penny pinch a build from the ground up, and if I just went through and used Universal cycles for the discount and free shipping I come out relatively close to what a complete would cost me, but then I would have to build it. Waiting to hear back from a member here that has one for sale, supposedly barely ridden and like new, and that's a good option as well.

    I will make a decision and pull that trigger by tomorrow ~ any last minute advice or things I may have missed fire away!

    I really appreciate all the guidance I have received so far. Thanks guys!
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post

    I will make a decision and pull that trigger by tomorrow ~ any last minute advice or things I may have missed fire away!
    You don't pull the trigger......
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NnhuFAPUjj0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I spent some time on some more fats yesterday, really liking the Pugs the more I ride and read about it. I thought the offset thing would bother me (not sure why just thought it would look funny and create a mental block) but it's pretty cool. I was worried about a 100mm stem (looks funny after looking at a 70mm for so long on other bikes but on the picture I don't look too stretched out. Its just something to get used to.

    I've spent time over the past few days comparing specs, models, prices and this particular bike, with the closeout deal is hard to beat. I'm not patient enough to penny pinch a build from the ground up, and if I just went through and used Universal cycles for the discount and free shipping I come out relatively close to what a complete would cost me, but then I would have to build it. Waiting to hear back from a member here that has one for sale, supposedly barely ridden and like new, and that's a good option as well.

    I will make a decision and pull that trigger by tomorrow ~ any last minute advice or things I may have missed fire away!

    I really appreciate all the guidance I have received so far. Thanks guys!
    Make sure you get the right size. You can always swap out the stem and get a layback seatpost to to fine tune the fit, but only to a point.

  41. #41
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    Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Make sure you get the right size. You can always swap out the stem and get a layback seatpost to to fine tune the fit, but only to a point.
    Just curious, you think that doesn't fit by looking at the picture? I've always ridden a medium sized bike, or close to a 23.5 ETT and that bike has it. I'm only 5'8" and have no abnormal traits like long arms, long torso, etc. It seems to fit me fine, or feels like it does
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Just curious, you think that doesn't fit by looking at the picture? I've always ridden a medium sized bike, or close to a 23.5 ETT and that bike has it. I'm only 5'8" and have no abnormal traits like long arms, long torso, etc. It seems to fit me fine, or feels like it does
    You should be good, both me and my wife are 5'8" and a medium Pugs fit both of us great.

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    medium fer sure. better to buy complete, imo. keep it simple/easy. like that ^^^^^^blue pugs yer on.

    rog

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Just curious, you think that doesn't fit by looking at the picture? I've always ridden a medium sized bike, or close to a 23.5 ETT and that bike has it. I'm only 5'8" and have no abnormal traits like long arms, long torso, etc. It seems to fit me fine, or feels like it does
    I was gonna say it looks small, but I'm 5'8" and I rode a Small Pugs. I'm always on the border of Small/Medium. I went with the Small to gain some extra nard clearance.
    You should stick with a Medium, especially if you favor a shortish stem.

  45. #45
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    It's all mine!!

    Pugsley still a safe bet?-pugsley-mine-.jpg

    New bike day rules. So stoked to get this out on the trails tonight.

    Thanks everyone for the input, thoroughly happy with my purchase decision
    MTBR: Your dad's online mountain bike forum.



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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pugsley is mine!!.jpg 
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    New bike day rules. So stoked to get this out on the trails tonight.

    Thanks everyone for the input, thoroughly happy with my purchase decision
    Nice. Enjoy!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Yes. Whenever I ride any one of my 4 steel bikes, I can't even enjoy myself over the sound of my bikes being old tech.

    That goes doubly for my Danish SCO Long John cargo bike. That design is over 100 years old, so as you can imagine, whenever I ride it I have a perpetual frown on my face from it being so low tech:

    My 1987 SCO Long John
    I take as meaning you have as much fun on old school bikes as I do.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  48. #48
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    Congrats on your new bike!

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    You won't regret it! I've been beating the hell out of mine for 18 months now and still love it. I ride it more than my Covert 29er. Congrats ! The honeymoon will last as long as you want it to...

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    +1 to this post... Steep head angle and flexes like a wet noodle... Then the frame cracked :/ Went the 9:zero:7 route and haven't looked back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    You're not the only one. I couldn't stand the steep hta, the weight or the way the frame flexed. I think I'm the only one who doesn't think steel is a virtue in a frame. I'm much happier with my 9:Zero:7 and don't miss my Pugsley. At. All.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk3Rider View Post
    +1 to this post... Steep head angle and flexes like a wet noodle... Then the frame cracked :/ Went the 9:zero:7 route and haven't looked back.
    and don't get me started on the fork that bent or those stupid, straight single speed dropouts, either.

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    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife. Quit coming around here with your big goofy 6'8" 270 pound ass and stinkin' up the place
    Gigantic asshat
    Oh yeah, to the OP, great choice! I wish many happy miles

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    Oh boy, name calling! Aren't you special!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife.


    I'm a fan of the horizontal dropouts as well. Currently we have IGHs in our two Pugs. When my GF builds up some 29+ wheels she may go with a 1X derailleur. I like the versatility.

    I'm 180lbs out of the shower and have loaded my Pugs with more gear than I will ever tour with again to ride the CDN GDR. I had no issues with frame flex. It handled everything like a champ including high speed riding on rough sections.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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    Thanks everyone, I loved my shakedown ride last night, learned a lot but have a lot of questions (mostly related to tire pressure on hard pack) but I will search the forums and maybe start a new thread about it instead of hiding it in here.

    Totally happy with my purchase. Even if others don't like it :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Thanks everyone, I loved my shakedown ride last night, learned a lot but have a lot of questions (mostly related to tire pressure on hard pack) but I will search the forums and maybe start a new thread about it instead of hiding it in here.
    Coles Notes:

    - tires bouncing take air out
    - steering getting weird or pinch flatting add air in
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Congrats on the purchase! My Surly has added new elements of riding and has allowed me to get back some of the initial exploratory and fun elements of riding back (lost on the pursuit of hot nasty speed), not that the Surly won't get it's speed on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    I'm a fan of the horizontal dropouts as well. Currently we have IGHs in our two Pugs. When my GF builds up some 29+ wheels she may go with a 1X derailleur. I like the versatility.

    I'm 180lbs out of the shower and have loaded my Pugs with more gear than I will ever tour with again to ride the CDN GDR. I had no issues with frame flex. It handled everything like a champ including high speed riding on rough sections.
    I just picked up a pugs special ops. What racks do you have front and rear? Are the disk brake racks?

    I am trying to make a commuter/winter bike. I am going to build some alfine 11 rabbit hole wheel set with Big Apples. I already have the tires for my stump jumper and I love them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thessjeff View Post
    I just picked up a pugs special ops. What racks do you have front and rear? Are the disk brake racks?
    Surly Pugsley Rack Options | The Lazy Rando Blog...

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    I have already seen that blog. I was more interested in what brand he is using. Thanks though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife. Quit coming around here with your big goofy 6'8" 270 pound ass and stinkin' up the place
    Gigantic asshat
    Oh yeah, to the OP, great choice! I wish many happy miles
    Hey, I resemble that remark - 6'1" formerly 280 lbs asshat.

    Been riding my Pugs daily for a year and a half. Yes, I can get the rear triangle to flex, but so what? I love that danged bike. Most fun I've had with my clothes on in a long time. Pretty fun to ride naked on it, too. Bomb single track, ride pavement, dirt touring, gravel grinding, beach riding... I love it in all the places I get to ride it. Ergo, my assessment is that, yes, the Pugs is a safe bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife. Quit coming around here with your big goofy 6'8" 270 pound ass and stinkin' up the place
    Gigantic asshat
    Oh yeah, to the OP, great choice! I wish many happy miles
    Thanks for saying what we all wanted to say, but didn't.

    One of my favorite things about the Pugsley is the compliant ride.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockphi View Post
    . Yes, I can get the rear triangle to flex, but so what?
    Well, for one, it can allow/force the rear axle to shift in those horizontal drops.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Track ends have been around forever on all kinds of bikes. You just have to use your big boy muscles and tighten up the rear wheel proper.

  65. #65
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    More than happy to Ultra!
    I almost felt under attack personally as I hold my Surly's close to the heart

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    I'm a fan of the horizontal dropouts as well. Currently we have IGHs in our two Pugs. When my GF builds up some 29+ wheels she may go with a 1X derailleur. I like the versatility.

    I'm 180lbs out of the shower and have loaded my Pugs with more gear than I will ever tour with again to ride the CDN GDR. I had no issues with frame flex. It handled everything like a champ including high speed riding on rough sections.
    I put my rohloff on the wife's bike, she loves it
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-image.jpg

    That looks like some gorgeous country you have there Vik!

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    I don't get all the hate, you'll love your Pug, I've thrashed the hell out of mine for eight years. Is the HT angle steep? - bike feels super-relaxed to me. I descend faster than most of my friends on cross-country hard-tails and keep-up on the rolling stuff no problem. Climbing is tougher with the extra weight but I don't get dropped or anything, even on a single-speed.
    Those 100mm rims / 5 inch tyre steeds look awesome and I'm sure they're the go on snow but that's overkill for trail-riding and beaches. I ride a ton of sand on four inch tyres and 65mm rims with few traction problems, only big dunes get the better of me and you can still ride DOWN them. Enjoy your blue pug, looks awesome.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/13520566683" title="Back Alley by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/13520566683_07964b89ba_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Back Alley"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14384788520" title="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price. by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2899/14384788520_d350442c83_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price."></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14024610618" title="Spot Antoine #1 by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5564/14024610618_3d3e3446a8_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Spot Antoine #1"></a>

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    While the head angle on the Pugs is relatively compared to some other bikes, I find the wide tires act almost like a steering damper and take away the "twitchy-ness" associated with steep head angles and skinny ~2" wide tires.

    Going back to the original question, I love my Pugsley and believe it is still relevant. I would like to see Surly upgrade it to a 44mm headtube like they did with the Karate Monkey. You can always run a 1.125" fork in a 44mm headtube if you want but you can't run a tapered fork in a Surly 1.125" headtube. But I hope they don't go to the MDS dropouts as they add to the chainstay length (if you're running the bike geared).

  69. #69
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    You guys do realize that you're not your bikes, right? my critique of the Pugsley came from actually owning one and riding the piss out of it for 9 months and 1200 miles. I liked it enough that my 29er collected dust, but at least for the 22" frame, the geometry had noticeable shortcomings, not to mention build quality and reliability issues- most noteworthy, cracked welds and a bent fork, all fixed under warranty, but nonetheless, disappointing. I found the bike to be lacking, I'm not saying anything against you personally, unless you don't like beer.

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    head angle doesn't matter if you know how to ride a bike.

    rog

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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    You guys do realize that you're not your bikes, right? my critique of the Pugsley came from actually owning one and riding the piss out of it for 9 months and 1200 miles. I liked it enough that my 29er collected dust, but at least for the 22" frame, the geometry had noticeable shortcomings, not to mention build quality and reliability issues- most noteworthy, cracked welds and a bent fork, all fixed under warranty, but nonetheless, disappointing. I found the bike to be lacking, I'm not saying anything against you personally, unless you don't like beer.
    The problem people have with your Surly bashing isn't objective criticism, it's that your "negatives" are actually positives to most people. I continue to ride my Pugsley by choice because of the geometry and versatility (dropouts). Know that only a very small percentage of the population has your body type. I ride an XL. The top tube is plenty long enough for me and 99% of other posters. If my pugs had the top tube you wanted, then I wouldn't like it. The head tube angle is not steep at all for a rigid bike. I find the frame flex takes a lot of the edge off of riding a rigid bike. Surly put out some defective frames and forks a couple years back, but have since fixed the problem and warrantied the defective items.

    I ride mine plenty hard, and she never complains.

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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusburger View Post
    I don't get all the hate, you'll love your Pug, I've thrashed the hell out of mine for eight years. Is the HT angle steep? - bike feels super-relaxed to me. I descend faster than most of my friends on cross-country hard-tails and keep-up on the rolling stuff no problem. Climbing is tougher with the extra weight but I don't get dropped or anything, even on a single-speed.
    Those 100mm rims / 5 inch tyre steeds look awesome and I'm sure they're the go on snow but that's overkill for trail-riding and beaches. I ride a ton of sand on four inch tyres and 65mm rims with few traction problems, only big dunes get the better of me and you can still ride DOWN them. Enjoy your blue pug, looks awesome.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/13520566683" title="Back Alley by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/13520566683_07964b89ba_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Back Alley"></a>
    Love that OG purple Pugsley!

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    I tried an 18 inch and it felt small...and I'm 6 foot 33 inch inseam. I don't understand how you 6 foot guys are riding an 18 inch

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Love that OG purple Pugsley!
    +1 - yes very nice
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusburger View Post
    I don't get all the hate, you'll love your Pug, I've thrashed the hell out of mine for eight years. Is the HT angle steep? - bike feels super-relaxed to me. I descend faster than most of my friends on cross-country hard-tails and keep-up on the rolling stuff no problem. Climbing is tougher with the extra weight but I don't get dropped or anything, even on a single-speed.
    Those 100mm rims / 5 inch tyre steeds look awesome and I'm sure they're the go on snow but that's overkill for trail-riding and beaches. I ride a ton of sand on four inch tyres and 65mm rims with few traction problems, only big dunes get the better of me and you can still ride DOWN them. Enjoy your blue pug, looks awesome.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/13520566683" title="Back Alley by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/13520566683_07964b89ba_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Back Alley"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14384788520" title="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price. by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2899/14384788520_d350442c83_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price."></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14024610618" title="Spot Antoine #1 by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5564/14024610618_3d3e3446a8_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Spot Antoine #1"></a>
    Ya that last pic was absolutely epic man.

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    Nobody's gettin my Pugs I tell ya....nobody (!)


    ....btw it used to be Purple

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    I love my blue 2014 pugsley. what an awesome bike. I will explain more when i find my first post on here asking about the fat boy or the pugs. ultimately the pugs is just amazing.

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    I bought my first black op 22" 2012 pugsly in feb 2013; I put 9 k miles on it so far. Love the hell out of it. Almost all the miles are single track or free riding rivers and beaches. My poor ti 29er just gathers dust. I have worn a few components out and upgraded when they did, but the frame, fork and bars have remained original. I've jumped into ponds off 8' high ramps, rode slick rock, frutia, most trails in kansas missouri, flown it to the bahamas and rode beaches. All I can say it it is an awesome bike. I hope you and your blue pug have them same fun and memories!

  79. #79
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    A little thread resurrection here...

    I've been thinking about giving fat bikes a try but don't want to make a big investment to find out. Now I have a chance to locally buy a 2013 Pugs, all stock in almost new condition for $850 so I'm getting more serious about it. Does that seem like a good deal? If I decide I don't like it would I be able to get most of my money out of it?

    I found this thread while searching specifically to see if there was any reason not to buy a Pugs. I know there are lots of new options with new tech so I wondered if the Pugs was too primitive compared to what has evolved since. From reading all this it sounds like the Pugs is for me. The main reason I'm so attracted to the Pugs is the steel frame. Every time I ride my Karate Monkey I'm reminded how nice steel is to ride. Secondly, I like the versatility. I'd be riding in AZ just trying to broaden my horizons for exploration and fun.

    My biggest concern is that it might be a bit small for me. I'm 6'3" with normal proportions (34.5" actual inseam) and ride a large Karate Monkey comfortably with a 90mm stem. The large Pugs I'm looking at has a 0.6" shorter ETT and a 110mm stem. With the stock setback seatpost I can get the same cockpit dimensions I get with my KM but with no more adjustment left. I've been able to test ride it around the guys neighborhood and it seems ok. It would be nice to have that extra .6" ETT but I really don't need the extra seat tube length or increased stand over height. If I'm right on the L/XL border is there any practical reason to choose one over the other?

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    You should be riding an XL in the pugs or karate monkey. Large too small.

  81. #81
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    Sizing all depends on what you like in a bike. For snow riding, if you are on the fence, I would choose smaller. Since you are in AZ the snow riding doesn't count for anything.

    At that price, I would buy it, ride it, and see if you like the whole fatbike thing. After a bit you will know that you either love fatbikes and want something better/larger or you will not care for the fatbike much and go back to the regular bikes. Or the Large may be just fine, and you'll keep it.

    Either way you will not lose much, if anything, on resale. IMO a Pugs will always be worth $850.

    Good luck!

  82. #82
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    Thanks for the info/opinions. I'm definitely comfortable on my L KM but the Pugs is just a wee bit smaller and may ultimately not work out but I may just go ahead and give it a try as 69tr6r says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinymouse View Post
    I just finished building my new Pugs. I picked it over other fat options for a few reasons:

    Steel
    Braze-ons galore (Touring, bikepacking, & commuting options and more options.)
    Steel
    Looks (Yes, I love the looks.)
    Steel
    Old tech (I'm a retrogrouch at heart. (My Pug will end up with cotton bar tape and shellac.) I was away from cycling for 25+ years, so a Pugsley and everything about it still seems radically new to me. It bugs me that a ten or so year old design would be obsolete.)
    Steel
    Durability (See the delightful cockroach analogy above.)
    Steel
    Beausage (See the comment above on how carbon and aluminum age, versus how steel ages.)
    Steel
    All rigid (I have no desire to ride a bike with squish, for various reasons that matter to me.)
    Steel
    Weight (Huh? Does anyone worry about weight?)
    Steel
    Handling (I can pop wheelies on it! What fun!)
    Steel

    In the end, get what you like. You're the one who will be riding what you get, not the rest of us. If you enjoy new tech for it's own sake, or new tech brings abilities that you value, then get something more "modern" than a Pugsley.

    Don't worry about what a bike is worth to other people. ($1,000 or $1,700?) Ask what it's worth to you.

    My $0.02.

    Happy trails.
    --

    This is so brilliant. I have the Charge Cooker Maxi, tange cromoly steel frame and fork, similar (if not identical) geo to the Surly with offset stays, 135mm rear etc - it goes like the clappers and ploughs through everything. The steel reminds me of my old Kona Explosif with Project Two's - that lovely 'ding' and twang versus the 'thud' of alu, and the steel will never go dead like alu. With upgraded bar, pedals and tyres it cost around 1500 Canadian and I have never had so much fun on a bike. OP congrats on your purchase and welcome to the real steel deal..

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69tr6r View Post
    Since you are in AZ the snow riding doesn't count for anything.
    Except for riding on snow in Arizona.

    Pugsley still a safe bet?-purge_020.jpgPugsley still a safe bet?-purge_008.jpg

    Would be great to have in Flagstaff. You can bet the trails here stay icy and snowy for a little while.
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-gedc0193s.jpg
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    I stand corrected.

    Edit - Twowheelchris, are you riding any snow in AZ?
    Last edited by 69tr6r; 03-23-2015 at 07:19 AM.

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    This year where I live (Prescott) I would have had 1 day of semi decent snow riding and I would have stayed inside anyway even if I had a fat bike. That's one reason why I live in AZ. If the weather is bad I can wait a day or drive an hour or two and have better conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Pugsley will always be a safe bet- they're the cockroaches of the bike world (and I mean that in the best way)- drop an atom bomb on one and everything around it will melt or mutate into a recumbent, the pugs will ride away unscratched.

    Only thing I'd say about the pugs is, they are not worth full price. If you can get the price nearer to $1000 than $1700, go for it.
    This says it all. With the right knowledge, the pugsley works with almost any MTB part from the last 25 years. Especially if you found a first gen with canti tabs.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Pugsley will always be a safe bet- they're the cockroaches of the bike world (and I mean that in the best way)- drop an atom bomb on one and everything around it will melt or mutate into a recumbent, the pugs will ride away unscratched.

    Only thing I'd say about the pugs is, they are not worth full price. If you can get the price nearer to $1000 than $1700, go for it.
    I'd agree but the Wednesday is pricing around a simlar price range and it's a tank of improvement in geometry, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    +1. If you can get it for close to $1k-1200 AND you really like your LBS, go for it. Otherwise, the X9 Boris or Lurch, from Bikesdirect.com is a better value.
    -1. The Boris doesn't compare in components and frame durability and craftsmanship even to puggies several years before. I have a Boris and would have taken a used in great condition pugs over my brand new boris any day. Too many problems, BDirect costumer service blows and new isn't always better. +1 to Pugs. +5 for Surly Wednesday

    FELL TO THE OLD NEWS THREAD TRAP! HAHAHA!
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  89. #89
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    I must say that there is something special about a Surly. They ride super nice. If you are a weight-weenie then there are other options but I love my Moonlander and how it rides. With my upgrades my Moonlander is a respectable weight, probably 32-33 lbs or so, but I love the bike. Can't bring myself to sell it yet. Will keep on it another couple of years for sure.

  90. #90
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    7 years old this Halloween and this Pugs ain`t going anywhere

    15th Sept; 002 by Bruce, on Flickr
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  91. #91
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    Read this: Simpson Desert Bike Challenge

    The races don't come much tougher.

    The Pug is as relevant today as when it was introduced.

    What has happened in the meantime is that more riders are buying fatbikes to ride in trail parks with their carefully groomed surfaces (and that's perfectly ok) but that means they want geometry more tuned to that style of riding. This is what the manufacturers call "modern trail geometry".

    If you want a bike for the great outdoors, the original Pugs are hard to beat.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  92. #92
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    I was just out on my 2015 pugs last night. There is no snow on the ground but I went and watched a cross race (would have competed if I had worn clipless shoes) and it was a blast going through the dirt course that was slightly damp due to the rain/sleet we've been getting. It was also very comfortable for the total of 10 miles I put on it last night riding around the city to different destinations. Was very nimble for all the curb hopping and dropping I did and random dirt I hit along the way (gotta love Minneapolis).

    So yes I think the pug is still relevant now as it has ever been, that geo is perfect for me it is exactly what I wanted in a fat bike. The ONLY thing I wish they would change is make it a 44mm headtube, that is all. I do not plan to run a bluto, but I would not mind putting a tapered carbon fork on it for the summer.

    Mr. Krabs: Is it true, Squidward? Is it hilarious?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pink57 View Post
    ...The ONLY thing I wish they would change is make it a 44mm headtube, that is all. I do not plan to run a bluto, but I would not mind putting a tapered carbon fork on it for the summer.
    Not me. I'm glad mine has 1.125". Got a cheap King headset I'm going to install soon. Maybe I'll stock pile a couple for a lifetime supply. A/C length of most carbon forks isn't optimal anyway.

    This winter, I might give the Pug a make over with a Jones fork. Ti would be cool, but probably a steel truss fork.

  94. #94
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    The Sarma has a pug option that is 450 AC it is non tapered, I will be looking at this fork for the summer.
    Mr. Krabs: Is it true, Squidward? Is it hilarious?

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    I look down on Pugsley owners who run symmetrical forks.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    I look down on Pugsley owners who run symmetrical forks.
    I laugh at all the Pug owners who think front/rear swapability will actually come in handy one day and save them from bailing on an epic tour.

    I wouldn't have a problem with running either. Mine came with a sym fork, so I'm sticking with it. Rides nice with a Lou up front as well, with plenty of clearance.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I laugh at all the Pug owners who think front/rear swapability will actually come in handy one day and save them from bailing on an epic tour.

    I wouldn't have a problem with running either. Mine came with a sym fork, so I'm sticking with it. Rides nice with a Lou up front as well, with plenty of clearance.
    The swapable wheels have bailed me out and got me home twice
    Once with a siezed Alfine, then another time with a stripped free hub

    Also handy for single speeders
    Last edited by coastkid71; 11-06-2015 at 12:42 PM.
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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    That's not all they're for. I'm not particularly worried that my White Industries freewheel will fail on me, but I can turn my Pugsley into a fixed gear bicycle mid-ride whenever I want, which kicks ass.


  99. #99
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    Pugs can do it all

    My pugs was originally white:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_0822.jpg

    The frame was replaced under warranty with a black one, and I added a Salsa Enabler fork:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_0994.jpg

    I ran a Bud up front for 1 season:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_1436.jpg

    And I picked up a set of Rabbit Holes for summer:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_2265.jpg

    By far the funnest, most versatile bike I have ever owned!

  100. #100
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    Waffled whether or not to get a Pugs. Guess which way won:

    Ultralight bikepacking and gear lists... MaxTheCyclist.com

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