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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk3Rider View Post
    +1 to this post... Steep head angle and flexes like a wet noodle... Then the frame cracked :/ Went the 9:zero:7 route and haven't looked back.
    and don't get me started on the fork that bent or those stupid, straight single speed dropouts, either.
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  2. #52
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    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife. Quit coming around here with your big goofy 6'8" 270 pound ass and stinkin' up the place
    Gigantic asshat
    Oh yeah, to the OP, great choice! I wish many happy miles

  3. #53
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    Oh boy, name calling! Aren't you special!
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife.


    I'm a fan of the horizontal dropouts as well. Currently we have IGHs in our two Pugs. When my GF builds up some 29+ wheels she may go with a 1X derailleur. I like the versatility.

    I'm 180lbs out of the shower and have loaded my Pugs with more gear than I will ever tour with again to ride the CDN GDR. I had no issues with frame flex. It handled everything like a champ including high speed riding on rough sections.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  5. #55
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    Thanks everyone, I loved my shakedown ride last night, learned a lot but have a lot of questions (mostly related to tire pressure on hard pack) but I will search the forums and maybe start a new thread about it instead of hiding it in here.

    Totally happy with my purchase. Even if others don't like it :-)
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Thanks everyone, I loved my shakedown ride last night, learned a lot but have a lot of questions (mostly related to tire pressure on hard pack) but I will search the forums and maybe start a new thread about it instead of hiding it in here.
    Coles Notes:

    - tires bouncing take air out
    - steering getting weird or pinch flatting add air in
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  7. #57
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    Congrats on the purchase! My Surly has added new elements of riding and has allowed me to get back some of the initial exploratory and fun elements of riding back (lost on the pursuit of hot nasty speed), not that the Surly won't get it's speed on.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    I'm a fan of the horizontal dropouts as well. Currently we have IGHs in our two Pugs. When my GF builds up some 29+ wheels she may go with a 1X derailleur. I like the versatility.

    I'm 180lbs out of the shower and have loaded my Pugs with more gear than I will ever tour with again to ride the CDN GDR. I had no issues with frame flex. It handled everything like a champ including high speed riding on rough sections.
    I just picked up a pugs special ops. What racks do you have front and rear? Are the disk brake racks?

    I am trying to make a commuter/winter bike. I am going to build some alfine 11 rabbit hole wheel set with Big Apples. I already have the tires for my stump jumper and I love them.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by thessjeff View Post
    I just picked up a pugs special ops. What racks do you have front and rear? Are the disk brake racks?
    Surly Pugsley Rack Options | The Lazy Rando Blog...

  10. #60
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    I have already seen that blog. I was more interested in what brand he is using. Thanks though.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife. Quit coming around here with your big goofy 6'8" 270 pound ass and stinkin' up the place
    Gigantic asshat
    Oh yeah, to the OP, great choice! I wish many happy miles
    Hey, I resemble that remark - 6'1" formerly 280 lbs asshat.

    Been riding my Pugs daily for a year and a half. Yes, I can get the rear triangle to flex, but so what? I love that danged bike. Most fun I've had with my clothes on in a long time. Pretty fun to ride naked on it, too. Bomb single track, ride pavement, dirt touring, gravel grinding, beach riding... I love it in all the places I get to ride it. Ergo, my assessment is that, yes, the Pugs is a safe bet.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
    I happen to really like the the horizontal dropouts,one of the main reasons for me buying a pug, and 1x1, and a 1x1 for the wife. Quit coming around here with your big goofy 6'8" 270 pound ass and stinkin' up the place
    Gigantic asshat
    Oh yeah, to the OP, great choice! I wish many happy miles
    Thanks for saying what we all wanted to say, but didn't.

    One of my favorite things about the Pugsley is the compliant ride.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockphi View Post
    . Yes, I can get the rear triangle to flex, but so what?
    Well, for one, it can allow/force the rear axle to shift in those horizontal drops.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  14. #64
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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Track ends have been around forever on all kinds of bikes. You just have to use your big boy muscles and tighten up the rear wheel proper.

  15. #65
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    More than happy to Ultra!
    I almost felt under attack personally as I hold my Surly's close to the heart

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    I'm a fan of the horizontal dropouts as well. Currently we have IGHs in our two Pugs. When my GF builds up some 29+ wheels she may go with a 1X derailleur. I like the versatility.

    I'm 180lbs out of the shower and have loaded my Pugs with more gear than I will ever tour with again to ride the CDN GDR. I had no issues with frame flex. It handled everything like a champ including high speed riding on rough sections.
    I put my rohloff on the wife's bike, she loves it
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-image.jpg

    That looks like some gorgeous country you have there Vik!

  17. #67
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    I don't get all the hate, you'll love your Pug, I've thrashed the hell out of mine for eight years. Is the HT angle steep? - bike feels super-relaxed to me. I descend faster than most of my friends on cross-country hard-tails and keep-up on the rolling stuff no problem. Climbing is tougher with the extra weight but I don't get dropped or anything, even on a single-speed.
    Those 100mm rims / 5 inch tyre steeds look awesome and I'm sure they're the go on snow but that's overkill for trail-riding and beaches. I ride a ton of sand on four inch tyres and 65mm rims with few traction problems, only big dunes get the better of me and you can still ride DOWN them. Enjoy your blue pug, looks awesome.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/13520566683" title="Back Alley by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/13520566683_07964b89ba_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Back Alley"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14384788520" title="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price. by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2899/14384788520_d350442c83_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price."></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14024610618" title="Spot Antoine #1 by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5564/14024610618_3d3e3446a8_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Spot Antoine #1"></a>

  18. #68
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    While the head angle on the Pugs is relatively compared to some other bikes, I find the wide tires act almost like a steering damper and take away the "twitchy-ness" associated with steep head angles and skinny ~2" wide tires.

    Going back to the original question, I love my Pugsley and believe it is still relevant. I would like to see Surly upgrade it to a 44mm headtube like they did with the Karate Monkey. You can always run a 1.125" fork in a 44mm headtube if you want but you can't run a tapered fork in a Surly 1.125" headtube. But I hope they don't go to the MDS dropouts as they add to the chainstay length (if you're running the bike geared).

  19. #69
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    You guys do realize that you're not your bikes, right? my critique of the Pugsley came from actually owning one and riding the piss out of it for 9 months and 1200 miles. I liked it enough that my 29er collected dust, but at least for the 22" frame, the geometry had noticeable shortcomings, not to mention build quality and reliability issues- most noteworthy, cracked welds and a bent fork, all fixed under warranty, but nonetheless, disappointing. I found the bike to be lacking, I'm not saying anything against you personally, unless you don't like beer.
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  20. #70
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    head angle doesn't matter if you know how to ride a bike.

    rog

  21. #71
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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    You guys do realize that you're not your bikes, right? my critique of the Pugsley came from actually owning one and riding the piss out of it for 9 months and 1200 miles. I liked it enough that my 29er collected dust, but at least for the 22" frame, the geometry had noticeable shortcomings, not to mention build quality and reliability issues- most noteworthy, cracked welds and a bent fork, all fixed under warranty, but nonetheless, disappointing. I found the bike to be lacking, I'm not saying anything against you personally, unless you don't like beer.
    The problem people have with your Surly bashing isn't objective criticism, it's that your "negatives" are actually positives to most people. I continue to ride my Pugsley by choice because of the geometry and versatility (dropouts). Know that only a very small percentage of the population has your body type. I ride an XL. The top tube is plenty long enough for me and 99% of other posters. If my pugs had the top tube you wanted, then I wouldn't like it. The head tube angle is not steep at all for a rigid bike. I find the frame flex takes a lot of the edge off of riding a rigid bike. Surly put out some defective frames and forks a couple years back, but have since fixed the problem and warrantied the defective items.

    I ride mine plenty hard, and she never complains.

  22. #72
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    Re: Pugsley still a safe bet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusburger View Post
    I don't get all the hate, you'll love your Pug, I've thrashed the hell out of mine for eight years. Is the HT angle steep? - bike feels super-relaxed to me. I descend faster than most of my friends on cross-country hard-tails and keep-up on the rolling stuff no problem. Climbing is tougher with the extra weight but I don't get dropped or anything, even on a single-speed.
    Those 100mm rims / 5 inch tyre steeds look awesome and I'm sure they're the go on snow but that's overkill for trail-riding and beaches. I ride a ton of sand on four inch tyres and 65mm rims with few traction problems, only big dunes get the better of me and you can still ride DOWN them. Enjoy your blue pug, looks awesome.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/13520566683" title="Back Alley by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/13520566683_07964b89ba_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Back Alley"></a>
    Love that OG purple Pugsley!

  23. #73
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    I tried an 18 inch and it felt small...and I'm 6 foot 33 inch inseam. I don't understand how you 6 foot guys are riding an 18 inch

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Love that OG purple Pugsley!
    +1 - yes very nice
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusburger View Post
    I don't get all the hate, you'll love your Pug, I've thrashed the hell out of mine for eight years. Is the HT angle steep? - bike feels super-relaxed to me. I descend faster than most of my friends on cross-country hard-tails and keep-up on the rolling stuff no problem. Climbing is tougher with the extra weight but I don't get dropped or anything, even on a single-speed.
    Those 100mm rims / 5 inch tyre steeds look awesome and I'm sure they're the go on snow but that's overkill for trail-riding and beaches. I ride a ton of sand on four inch tyres and 65mm rims with few traction problems, only big dunes get the better of me and you can still ride DOWN them. Enjoy your blue pug, looks awesome.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/13520566683" title="Back Alley by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/13520566683_07964b89ba_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Back Alley"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14384788520" title="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price. by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2899/14384788520_d350442c83_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Peace and tranquility in the suburbs has its price."></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/79498713@N00/14024610618" title="Spot Antoine #1 by Antoine, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5564/14024610618_3d3e3446a8_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Spot Antoine #1"></a>
    Ya that last pic was absolutely epic man.

  26. #76
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    Nobody's gettin my Pugs I tell ya....nobody (!)


    ....btw it used to be Purple

  27. #77
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    I love my blue 2014 pugsley. what an awesome bike. I will explain more when i find my first post on here asking about the fat boy or the pugs. ultimately the pugs is just amazing.

  28. #78
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    I bought my first black op 22" 2012 pugsly in feb 2013; I put 9 k miles on it so far. Love the hell out of it. Almost all the miles are single track or free riding rivers and beaches. My poor ti 29er just gathers dust. I have worn a few components out and upgraded when they did, but the frame, fork and bars have remained original. I've jumped into ponds off 8' high ramps, rode slick rock, frutia, most trails in kansas missouri, flown it to the bahamas and rode beaches. All I can say it it is an awesome bike. I hope you and your blue pug have them same fun and memories!

  29. #79
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    A little thread resurrection here...

    I've been thinking about giving fat bikes a try but don't want to make a big investment to find out. Now I have a chance to locally buy a 2013 Pugs, all stock in almost new condition for $850 so I'm getting more serious about it. Does that seem like a good deal? If I decide I don't like it would I be able to get most of my money out of it?

    I found this thread while searching specifically to see if there was any reason not to buy a Pugs. I know there are lots of new options with new tech so I wondered if the Pugs was too primitive compared to what has evolved since. From reading all this it sounds like the Pugs is for me. The main reason I'm so attracted to the Pugs is the steel frame. Every time I ride my Karate Monkey I'm reminded how nice steel is to ride. Secondly, I like the versatility. I'd be riding in AZ just trying to broaden my horizons for exploration and fun.

    My biggest concern is that it might be a bit small for me. I'm 6'3" with normal proportions (34.5" actual inseam) and ride a large Karate Monkey comfortably with a 90mm stem. The large Pugs I'm looking at has a 0.6" shorter ETT and a 110mm stem. With the stock setback seatpost I can get the same cockpit dimensions I get with my KM but with no more adjustment left. I've been able to test ride it around the guys neighborhood and it seems ok. It would be nice to have that extra .6" ETT but I really don't need the extra seat tube length or increased stand over height. If I'm right on the L/XL border is there any practical reason to choose one over the other?

  30. #80
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    You should be riding an XL in the pugs or karate monkey. Large too small.

  31. #81
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    Sizing all depends on what you like in a bike. For snow riding, if you are on the fence, I would choose smaller. Since you are in AZ the snow riding doesn't count for anything.

    At that price, I would buy it, ride it, and see if you like the whole fatbike thing. After a bit you will know that you either love fatbikes and want something better/larger or you will not care for the fatbike much and go back to the regular bikes. Or the Large may be just fine, and you'll keep it.

    Either way you will not lose much, if anything, on resale. IMO a Pugs will always be worth $850.

    Good luck!

  32. #82
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    Thanks for the info/opinions. I'm definitely comfortable on my L KM but the Pugs is just a wee bit smaller and may ultimately not work out but I may just go ahead and give it a try as 69tr6r says.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinymouse View Post
    I just finished building my new Pugs. I picked it over other fat options for a few reasons:

    Steel
    Braze-ons galore (Touring, bikepacking, & commuting options and more options.)
    Steel
    Looks (Yes, I love the looks.)
    Steel
    Old tech (I'm a retrogrouch at heart. (My Pug will end up with cotton bar tape and shellac.) I was away from cycling for 25+ years, so a Pugsley and everything about it still seems radically new to me. It bugs me that a ten or so year old design would be obsolete.)
    Steel
    Durability (See the delightful cockroach analogy above.)
    Steel
    Beausage (See the comment above on how carbon and aluminum age, versus how steel ages.)
    Steel
    All rigid (I have no desire to ride a bike with squish, for various reasons that matter to me.)
    Steel
    Weight (Huh? Does anyone worry about weight?)
    Steel
    Handling (I can pop wheelies on it! What fun!)
    Steel

    In the end, get what you like. You're the one who will be riding what you get, not the rest of us. If you enjoy new tech for it's own sake, or new tech brings abilities that you value, then get something more "modern" than a Pugsley.

    Don't worry about what a bike is worth to other people. ($1,000 or $1,700?) Ask what it's worth to you.

    My $0.02.

    Happy trails.
    --

    This is so brilliant. I have the Charge Cooker Maxi, tange cromoly steel frame and fork, similar (if not identical) geo to the Surly with offset stays, 135mm rear etc - it goes like the clappers and ploughs through everything. The steel reminds me of my old Kona Explosif with Project Two's - that lovely 'ding' and twang versus the 'thud' of alu, and the steel will never go dead like alu. With upgraded bar, pedals and tyres it cost around 1500 Canadian and I have never had so much fun on a bike. OP congrats on your purchase and welcome to the real steel deal..

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69tr6r View Post
    Since you are in AZ the snow riding doesn't count for anything.
    Except for riding on snow in Arizona.

    Pugsley still a safe bet?-purge_020.jpgPugsley still a safe bet?-purge_008.jpg

    Would be great to have in Flagstaff. You can bet the trails here stay icy and snowy for a little while.
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-gedc0193s.jpg
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  35. #85
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    I stand corrected.

    Edit - Twowheelchris, are you riding any snow in AZ?
    Last edited by 69tr6r; 03-23-2015 at 07:19 AM.

  36. #86
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    This year where I live (Prescott) I would have had 1 day of semi decent snow riding and I would have stayed inside anyway even if I had a fat bike. That's one reason why I live in AZ. If the weather is bad I can wait a day or drive an hour or two and have better conditions.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Pugsley will always be a safe bet- they're the cockroaches of the bike world (and I mean that in the best way)- drop an atom bomb on one and everything around it will melt or mutate into a recumbent, the pugs will ride away unscratched.

    Only thing I'd say about the pugs is, they are not worth full price. If you can get the price nearer to $1000 than $1700, go for it.
    This says it all. With the right knowledge, the pugsley works with almost any MTB part from the last 25 years. Especially if you found a first gen with canti tabs.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Pugsley will always be a safe bet- they're the cockroaches of the bike world (and I mean that in the best way)- drop an atom bomb on one and everything around it will melt or mutate into a recumbent, the pugs will ride away unscratched.

    Only thing I'd say about the pugs is, they are not worth full price. If you can get the price nearer to $1000 than $1700, go for it.
    I'd agree but the Wednesday is pricing around a simlar price range and it's a tank of improvement in geometry, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    +1. If you can get it for close to $1k-1200 AND you really like your LBS, go for it. Otherwise, the X9 Boris or Lurch, from Bikesdirect.com is a better value.
    -1. The Boris doesn't compare in components and frame durability and craftsmanship even to puggies several years before. I have a Boris and would have taken a used in great condition pugs over my brand new boris any day. Too many problems, BDirect costumer service blows and new isn't always better. +1 to Pugs. +5 for Surly Wednesday

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  39. #89
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    I must say that there is something special about a Surly. They ride super nice. If you are a weight-weenie then there are other options but I love my Moonlander and how it rides. With my upgrades my Moonlander is a respectable weight, probably 32-33 lbs or so, but I love the bike. Can't bring myself to sell it yet. Will keep on it another couple of years for sure.

  40. #90
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    7 years old this Halloween and this Pugs ain`t going anywhere

    15th Sept; 002 by Bruce, on Flickr
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  41. #91
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    Read this: Simpson Desert Bike Challenge

    The races don't come much tougher.

    The Pug is as relevant today as when it was introduced.

    What has happened in the meantime is that more riders are buying fatbikes to ride in trail parks with their carefully groomed surfaces (and that's perfectly ok) but that means they want geometry more tuned to that style of riding. This is what the manufacturers call "modern trail geometry".

    If you want a bike for the great outdoors, the original Pugs are hard to beat.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  42. #92
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    I was just out on my 2015 pugs last night. There is no snow on the ground but I went and watched a cross race (would have competed if I had worn clipless shoes) and it was a blast going through the dirt course that was slightly damp due to the rain/sleet we've been getting. It was also very comfortable for the total of 10 miles I put on it last night riding around the city to different destinations. Was very nimble for all the curb hopping and dropping I did and random dirt I hit along the way (gotta love Minneapolis).

    So yes I think the pug is still relevant now as it has ever been, that geo is perfect for me it is exactly what I wanted in a fat bike. The ONLY thing I wish they would change is make it a 44mm headtube, that is all. I do not plan to run a bluto, but I would not mind putting a tapered carbon fork on it for the summer.

    Mr. Krabs: Is it true, Squidward? Is it hilarious?

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pink57 View Post
    ...The ONLY thing I wish they would change is make it a 44mm headtube, that is all. I do not plan to run a bluto, but I would not mind putting a tapered carbon fork on it for the summer.
    Not me. I'm glad mine has 1.125". Got a cheap King headset I'm going to install soon. Maybe I'll stock pile a couple for a lifetime supply. A/C length of most carbon forks isn't optimal anyway.

    This winter, I might give the Pug a make over with a Jones fork. Ti would be cool, but probably a steel truss fork.

  44. #94
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    The Sarma has a pug option that is 450 AC it is non tapered, I will be looking at this fork for the summer.
    Mr. Krabs: Is it true, Squidward? Is it hilarious?

  45. #95
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    I look down on Pugsley owners who run symmetrical forks.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    I look down on Pugsley owners who run symmetrical forks.
    I laugh at all the Pug owners who think front/rear swapability will actually come in handy one day and save them from bailing on an epic tour.

    I wouldn't have a problem with running either. Mine came with a sym fork, so I'm sticking with it. Rides nice with a Lou up front as well, with plenty of clearance.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I laugh at all the Pug owners who think front/rear swapability will actually come in handy one day and save them from bailing on an epic tour.

    I wouldn't have a problem with running either. Mine came with a sym fork, so I'm sticking with it. Rides nice with a Lou up front as well, with plenty of clearance.
    The swapable wheels have bailed me out and got me home twice
    Once with a siezed Alfine, then another time with a stripped free hub

    Also handy for single speeders
    Last edited by coastkid71; 11-06-2015 at 11:42 AM.
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  48. #98
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    That's not all they're for. I'm not particularly worried that my White Industries freewheel will fail on me, but I can turn my Pugsley into a fixed gear bicycle mid-ride whenever I want, which kicks ass.


  49. #99
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    Pugs can do it all

    My pugs was originally white:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_0822.jpg

    The frame was replaced under warranty with a black one, and I added a Salsa Enabler fork:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_0994.jpg

    I ran a Bud up front for 1 season:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_1436.jpg

    And I picked up a set of Rabbit Holes for summer:
    Pugsley still a safe bet?-img_2265.jpg

    By far the funnest, most versatile bike I have ever owned!

  50. #100
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    Waffled whether or not to get a Pugs. Guess which way won:

    Ultralight bikepacking and gear lists... MaxTheCyclist.com

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