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  1. #1
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    Pugsley rear wheel slipping when I brake - will a Tuggnut fix the problem?

    I recently built up a Pugsley (Necromancer frame) and often, when I use the rear brake, the rear wheel slips and gets pulled to the non-drive side, hitting the non-drive chainstay. The rear QR is clamped down pretty damn tight, but it still pulls if I brake too hard. I had this same issue with my Karate Monkey and fixed it with a Tuggnut. Have any other Pugsley owners encountered this problem? Did a Tuggnut do the trick?
    Surly Pugsley, Salsa El Mariachi, Salsa Vaya

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  2. #2
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    The first thing to do is remove the paint from the dropouts, so your hub locknuts and skewer acorn nuts come into contact with bare metal.

    Also make sure you have a good skewer. Some boutique models don't really clamp that hard even if the lever is hard to close. Further info: Bicycle Quick-release Skewers

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulmt View Post
    I had this same issue with my Karate Monkey and fixed it with a Tuggnut. Have any other Pugsley owners encountered this problem? Did a Tuggnut do the trick?
    A Tugnut stops the wheel from moving forward the disc brake is trying to pull the wheel backwards which is why the tire hits the non-driveside chainstay. If it was moving forward the tire would hit the driveside chainstay.

    Like Saul says get a skewer with high clamping force.

    You can also add something to the area that would add more friction - grippy paint on finishes.

    The Tugnut would help on the driveside because the chain is trying to pull that side of the axle forward.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  4. #4
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    Saul - Thanks for the info. I'm using an exposed cam Salsa QR which I guess would fall into Sheldon's boutique category. Do you think a Shimano XT or XTR enclosed cam QR would have some stronger clamping power?

    Vik - Thank you for helping to clarify the Tugnut. Hope you and Sharon are doing well . We had beers with you in Victoria on our bike tour last summer. I have added the Pug to my quiver, though am still figuring the ins and outs of it's full capabilities.
    Surly Pugsley, Salsa El Mariachi, Salsa Vaya

    Part time bag/pogie maker:
    http://wanderlust-gear.com

  5. #5
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    yes both xt & xtr are great skewers.

  6. #6
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    I used to have Hope skewers - not a shabby brand by any means, just like Salsa - but the clamping force was insufficient. I'd even feel flex when cornering hard!

    I have a Shimano XT skewer on my Moonlander in the rear and haven't had a single slip.

    Do consider removing the paint as well. Leaving the paint on the friction surfaces of dropouts is a lack of finishing the bike and a common cause of slipping. Of course if changing the skewer eliminates the problem, removing the paint would be "belt and suspenders".

    In any case it seems you'll get this sorted easily with little (if any) cash involved. And no need for superfluous parts, I threw my Tuggnut in the parts bin after realizing it's not really necessary. There are other ways to open a bottle.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulmt View Post

    Vik - Thank you for helping to clarify the Tugnut. Hope you and Sharon are doing well . We had beers with you in Victoria on our bike tour last summer. I have added the Pug to my quiver, though am still figuring the ins and outs of it's full capabilities.
    We are both well. Thanks for asking. Glad you got a Pugs. Just try it for as many bike missions as come to mind. It's surprisingly versatile.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  8. #8
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    I used a pair of Redline BMX tugs with the Surly QR adapters and a tandem skewer on my Pugs. It was way better than the Surly Tuggnuts, lighter, and easier to adjust (uses an Allen wrench, not the thumbscrews). I've had two Tuggnuts with galled threads, so they are worthless now.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all the great recommendations.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    We are both well. Thanks for asking. Glad you got a Pugs. Just try it for as many bike missions as come to mind. It's surprisingly versatile.
    It's been getting a bit more spring riding here and there. I'm planning on using it for a 3-day bikepack to a fire lookout I've got planned for next month which will be my lady's first proper bikepacking trip (with her new tiny purple Troll).
    Surly Pugsley, Salsa El Mariachi, Salsa Vaya

    Part time bag/pogie maker:
    http://wanderlust-gear.com

  10. #10
    Location: SouthPole of MN
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  11. #11
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    I will second the Shimano XT skewer have that on a stock Surly Marge Lite rim on my Necro build, torque it down as hard as I could - no slip. In fact I have a Burly hitch adapter on my skewer I pull my kids in our trailer with this setup, no slip! That's a test.

  12. #12
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Paulmt, one more thing to look at. Make sure the axle is centered in the hub. If too much axle is protruding through one side of the dropout it could cause the wheel to slip even with a XT skewer.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    What about using Monkeynuts?
    Like Tugnuts Monkeynuts prevent the wheel from moving forward. For a geared Pugsley the wheel is probably already all the way forward and the problem is the wheel sliding backwards under braking forces.

    A QR with more clamping force or conversion to bolt on axle is the correct solution.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBBaron View Post
    Like Tugnuts Monkeynuts prevent the wheel from moving forward. For a geared Pugsley the wheel is probably already all the way forward and the problem is the wheel sliding backwards under braking forces.

    A QR with more clamping force or conversion to bolt on axle is the correct solution.
    To be fair to Paulmt, the actual correct solution would be for surly to simply use a set of vertical dropouts for the pugsley and then sell a special edition with the ridiculous track dropouts for the rare singlespeeders who want to ride a pugsley.

    I can count the number of singlespeed and internally geared puglesys I've ever seen on the fingers of one hand.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    To be fair to Paulmt, the actual correct solution would be for surly to simply use a set of vertical dropouts for the pugsley and then sell a special edition with the ridiculous track dropouts for the rare singlespeeders who want to ride a pugsley.

    I can count the number of singlespeed and internally geared puglesys I've ever seen on the fingers of one hand.
    Yea, inorder to make a "do anything" frame sometimes the solutions are going to cause problems. Like the need for extra strong QR and difficulty in clearing disc brakes and fenders with the Surly "track dropouts".

    On the other hand I did run my Pugsley SS for quite some time but now run 1x9. And with an offset frame and fork, the redundant drive kind of requires some kind of chain tensioning mechanism.

    Craig

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    To be fair to Paulmt, the actual correct solution would be for surly to simply use a set of vertical dropouts for the pugsley and then sell a special edition with the ridiculous track dropouts for the rare singlespeeders who want to ride a pugsley.

    I can count the number of singlespeed and internally geared puglesys I've ever seen on the fingers of one hand.

    True, although the option to single speed as a self rescue upon catastrophic rear mech failure is nice and fits with the pugsley's intended go anywhere purpose.

  17. #17
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    I see lots of people using Surly's horizontal dropouts for SS/FG and IGHs, but I like IGHs so I pay attention to that sort of thing. I also see a ton of people running derailleurs on Pugs without any issues.

    The Surly dropouts give you a ton of versatility at low cost so when you want to try an IGH or SS after your stock drivetrain wears out you can. Or you can go the other way if you started with a SS bike and want gears for a tour for example. If that flexibility comes at the price of using a QR with reasonable clamping force that seems pretty reasonable.

    Not to mention that there are a load of fat bikes available without horizontal dropouts for those who can't deal with the challenges of Surly's setup.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  18. #18
    Mr.Green
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    If everything else fails...

    If everything else fails, using a ’Fire Eye ASP Chain Tugs-10 mm’ ‘Non Drive Side’
    Pugsley rear wheel slipping when I brake - will a Tuggnut fix the problem?-002.jpg
    Pugsley rear wheel slipping when I brake - will a Tuggnut fix the problem?-003.jpg
    drilling two ‘pilot holes’ (a bit difficult ),
    Pugsley rear wheel slipping when I brake - will a Tuggnut fix the problem?-001.jpg
    could be the solution
    Mr.Green

  19. #19
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    In the meantime some of us just stripped the paint, switched to a strong skewer and haven't had an issue since.

  20. #20
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    Hi, im running my Moonlander SS and couldn't torque down the xt skewer tight enough. At first it would slip under power, a tugnut fixed that. Then, it started slipping under braking, swapped qr for bolt on axle which fixed that. No problems now.

  21. #21
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    I take it you never removed the paint, which would most likely have saved you the cost of a tuggnut and bolt-on conversion, and allowed you to retain QR.

    For me the eye-opening experience was having my wheel slip under power even though the rear wheel was attached with 15 mm nuts. (Another bike entirely: fixed bike polo / trick / commuting bulldozer.) I also bought a Tuggnut, but after removing the paint from the dropouts it proved to be superfluous.

  22. #22
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    Anyone ever use the Halo hex key skewer? I'm considering it.
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  23. #23
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    I've been using the stock XT skewer and it has been just fine. I am using BB7 brakes with 140mm rotors and I haven't had my wheel slip. I have been tossing the idea around of switching my XT rear hub axle out for a solid bolt-on style just for security and to run it SS whenever I feel like it. If I was having slipping issues and I had a Shimano hub I would make it a solid axle and bolt it down!
    My motorcycle runs on infant blood

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Thomsen View Post
    If everything else fails, using a ’Fire Eye ASP Chain Tugs-10 mm’ ‘Non Drive Side’
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    drilling two ‘pilot holes’ (a bit difficult ),
    Click image for larger version. 

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    could be the solution
    Er, how do ya get the wheel out? Do you have to remove those two tiny screws on each side? If so, this really seems like a method of last resort.

  25. #25
    Mr.Green
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    Quote Originally Posted by empire_builder View Post
    Er, how do ya get the wheel out? Do you have to remove those two tiny screws on each side? If so, this really seems like a method of last resort.
    No, they (those two tiny screws) only act as a ‘guide’…there’s no thread in the frame. But drilling the frame requires quite a small tolerance.
    Mr.Green

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