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  1. #1
    wounded knee
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    Pugsley frame failure

    I know I seen a thread on this a while back I have searched in vain and found nothing.
    About 2 weeks ago I had a frame failure on my 2010 Surly Pugsley, behind the seat stay right where the failures were on the 2012 if I remember correctly.



    My local shop Valley Cycles was nice enough to take care of all the Warranty paperwork and headaches that go along with it for me.

    They got the ok to send it back but no call tag, and when they asked for one there was no reply? So I'm going to have to foot the bill for shipping which acording to them is not the norm.

    Anyone else that went through this how long did it take to get the new frame?
    Did you pay shipping?
    I know I'm going to have to pay the shop for switching all the parts over, honestly I just want my favorite bike back in time for Winter.
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  2. #2
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    I was looking for that old thread too, no idea what happened to it. Surly should take care of the shipping, they are usually really good with warranty issues. Have your LBS call them again tomorrow for a call tag. Your LBS will have to pack the frame to send back to Surly on their own dime, so I'd recommend dropping off a 12 pack of beer shortly before closing
    Jason
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  3. #3
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    Iíve had several frames from small builders and big manufactures break over the years and warrantied many customer frames. Iíd say itís about 50/ 50 when it comes to manufacturers paying for the return shipping. Itís always worth having your shop ask, but jeeze, youíve got a few seasons of riding on this thing, $35 to get a new frame is a pretty sweet deal if you ask me. As long as it is warranty, and they have a frame in your size in stock, I bet youíll have a
    shiny new frame by the end of the week.

  4. #4
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    LBS took in my damaged frame (7 months of riding on mine before I noticed the cracks) and received a warranty frame from Surly. There was some arm wrestling over who was to pay for shipping to an fro but between them but I was not involved in that. Also said bike shop was under new ownership after I purchased my Pugsley, so the frame/parts swap was on my dime albeit discounted. I like Surly and the bike shop so I paid the bill and went for a ride! No harm, no foul.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoreskillz View Post
    LBS took in my damaged frame (7 months of riding on mine before I noticed the cracks) and received a warranty frame from Surly. There was some arm wrestling over who was to pay for shipping to an fro but between them but I was not involved in that. Also said bike shop was under new ownership after I purchased my Pugsley, so the frame/parts swap was on my dime albeit discounted. I like Surly and the bike shop so I paid the bill and went for a ride! No harm, no foul.
    this seems reasonable

  6. #6
    wounded knee
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    Honestly I don'y mind paying the freight out $56.00, and the changeover of parts from my LBS, I also have them regreasing all the bearings, running all new cables, ect.
    I have had 2 and a half years of riding my favorite mountain bike, I just hope to hear something next week about when I'll see the new frame.
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  7. #7
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    ^Cheers for positive news

  8. #8
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    Sorry to hear that...are u getting the yellow or red frame

    or do they have white frames still in stock?
    Your pugs was the bike that convinced me that I had to get a fat bike. Rode it briefly at the moon over a year ago. Surprised to see the frame crack, that bike seemed like a tank!!!!

  9. #9
    wounded knee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Honeybadger View Post
    or do they have white frames still in stock?
    Your pugs was the bike that convinced me that I had to get a fat bike. Rode it briefly at the moon over a year ago. Surprised to see the frame crack, that bike seemed like a tank!!!!
    I wish they had the white, from what I hear I'm getting a Yellow frame, would of rathered the Red, maybe it's time for a change though, can't wait to get it back.
    I'm allways happy to let people ride it, love hearing them say WOW I thought it would be slow and cumbersome, and see the reaction on their faces.
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  10. #10
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    THere are more than a handful of unique reports of the OP's type of failure on the Amazing Surly Pugsley Facebook page... not good..

  11. #11
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    Local guy had this happen on 3 white frames in a fairly short amount of time. The first one after a year or so, and the others a few months afterwards for each. His yellow one is holding up good so far. The design of the rear seat stay is different on the new yellow frame. He's not riding it super hard, sand rides and single track with no hucking off of big drops or anything.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfuller View Post
    Local guy had this happen on 3 white frames in a fairly short amount of time...
    Is the frame is on the small side for him and he's using a longer seatpost to make up for it? (ie insertion depth insufficient). Or is he using a stiff seatpost?

    This is happening often enough that Surly need to reinforce that area to make it foolproof.

    This sort of problem plagues manufacturers of well-used folding bikes which tend to use long seatposts (although most don't get ridden far enough for this to become evident)
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  13. #13
    wounded knee
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    The good news is my replacement frame should be here by Friday, the bad news is it might be a White one, I don't understand why they would still be shipping these frames out for replacement ones when they know there is a problem with them, I'm going to be inspecting it every ride.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogman View Post
    THere are more than a handful of unique reports of the OP's type of failure on the Amazing Surly Pugsley Facebook page... not good..
    Yeah I saw that. Also a lot of assumptions being made there about what the cause is that are pretty far fetched.

  15. #15
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    if they changed the design on the yellow and red frames, safe to say the Necro pug has the same design as the white? and potentially same issue?

  16. #16
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    I can't visualize how the forces work. Could someone explain how the curved piece as opposed to the straight piece makes the frame crack?

  17. #17
    middle ring single track
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    Pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by kuan View Post
    I can't visualize how the forces work. Could someone explain how the curved piece as opposed to the straight piece makes the frame crack?
    I'm not sure exactly what part you're referring to but all other things being equal a curved piece is more flexible than a straight one. Often used by designers to give a frame "compliance" (makes it ride softer)

    If you're talking about the strut between the seatstays (curved on my Pugs) a curved one will allow more flexing where the seatstays join the seat tube (where those cracks are) than a straight one.

    Designs need to be flexible, the trick is spreading the flexibility around so a single area is not overloaded. (beyond the material's fatigue limit) A straight strut might just move the cracking failures to another area.

    I wonder if the cracked frames are being ridden hard? (jumps, wheelies, hammered?)
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  18. #18
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    Ah I see. Makes perfect sense now. It's too flexy and the welds take the brunt of it, not the tubing. Thanks.

  19. #19
    middle ring single track
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    Haz...?

    It is worthwhile to note that it is not the weld bead itself that is cracked; it's in the seat tube immediately adjacent to the weld---this is a typical weld failure in the "Heat Affected Zone". This could be the result of poor weld technique, wrong materials or skipping possible post-welding heat treatment (normalizing); not necessarily poor geometry/design.

    My "Curry Squirt" Pugs (no cracks thus far) has much smaller weld beads in the area shown in the OP photo; this may be of some significance. I also noticed that on the red frame (still has a curved brace) pictured on the Surly site the tubes are now spaced further apart so the joints are more on the side of the seat tube.
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider6 View Post
    The good news is my replacement frame should be here by Friday, the bad news is it might be a White one, I don't understand why they would still be shipping these frames out for replacement ones when they know there is a problem with them, I'm going to be inspecting it every ride.
    I was just communicating with Surly about this problem and I think form a manufacturing point of view there is very few bikes that are failing in this model (white) to send out a different model.

    Most of the white ones (like mine) are fine and good bikes. I know of others that have this model and their bikes are OK. So it is just an anomaly. A pain that it has happen to some, like yourself and it did cause me to check my bike and contact Surly. The good news is that Surly is such a great company to deal with and that they take good care of there customer.

    I hope all goes well with your new frame and I will be watching mine more closely.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    It is worthwhile to note that it is not the weld bead itself that is cracked; it's in the seat tube immediately adjacent to the weld---this is a typical weld failure in the "Heat Affected Zone". This could be the result of poor weld technique, wrong materials or skipping possible post-welding heat treatment (normalizing); not necessarily poor geometry/design.

    My "Curry Squirt" Pugs (no cracks thus far) has much smaller weld beads in the area shown in the OP photo; this may be of some significance. I also noticed that on the red frame (still has a curved brace) pictured on the Surly site the tubes are now spaced further apart so the joints are more on the side of the seat tube.
    ^^^
    Yep.

    Failure in the HAZ.

  22. #22
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    Lots of activities on the the amazing surly pugsley facebook page regarding the frame failure.. Pop corn time!

    Hpefully this wont degrade white pugs' resale value.. I have fatter bikes within my view

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    It is worthwhile to note that it is not the weld bead itself that is cracked; it's in the seat tube immediately adjacent to the weld---this is a typical weld failure in the "Heat Affected Zone". This could be the result of poor weld technique, wrong materials or skipping possible post-welding heat treatment (normalizing); not necessarily poor geometry/design.

    My "Curry Squirt" Pugs (no cracks thus far) has much smaller weld beads in the area shown in the OP photo; this may be of some significance. I also noticed that on the red frame (still has a curved brace) pictured on the Surly site the tubes are now spaced further apart so the joints are more on the side of the seat tube.
    Bingo! My first gen Pug has no problems and most likely never will and it's curved. It's absolutely absurd to claim that is the issue when its just a QC issue with the welds. Lots of claims being made by non metallurgists and people who have never TIG welded 4130. I'm sure Surly will straighten it out and people should be going to them and/or their LBS about it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogman View Post
    Lots of activities on the the amazing surly pugsley facebook page regarding the frame failure.. Pop corn time!

    Hpefully this wont degrade white pugs' resale value.. I have fatter bikes within my view
    Mostly one persons crusade from what I can see, and he's barking up the wrong tree.

  25. #25
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    I've recently bought a used Pugs frame which had a similar crack and then had it repaired. So if out of warranty it's still fixable. Now awaiting powder coat and build up.

    Pugsley frame failure-img_3600.jpg

    Pugsley frame failure-img_3603.jpg

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