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  1. #1
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    Pugsley alternatives (scared of frame cracking)

    I have a (2010?) snowblind white Pug that was purchased used. I absolutely love this bike. However, I'm afraid of the possible impending frame crack on the seatpost. It's fine right now (no sign of any cracking), but since this problem seems like it will happen eventually, I'm thinking perhaps I should sell this bike now while it is still fine. Since I bought it used, I probably can't just contact Surly and count on them to replace it if it cracks I'd imagine.

    I have tried riding the first gen and current gen Mukluks, and they are just not the bike for me, at least how they are set up "out of the box", the geometry feels all wrong, and they ride harsher. Whenever I ride one, it's kind of fun for a bit riding a bike that's noticeably lighter than mine, but soon I can't wait to trade off again and get back on my pug.

    I have ridden the current 9zero7s, and I could probably live with one of those. It's definitely different than my Pugsley, but perhaps with a little tweaking, could probably learn to really enjoy it. Mainly the HTA that throws me I think.

    I have not ridden a Fatback. I understand they make both aluminum and steel versions. Are they "Pugsley like"? Does anyone here with riding experience on both a Pugs and Fatback think they're pretty comparable to ride?

    I like the yellow on the new Pugs, but have they fixed this problem? Probably not. Perhaps the Moonlander isn't subject to this frame cracking issue? Hate to say it, but I'll probably be staying away from Surly this time around.

    Mukluks seem so available.. and a decent price for the Muk3. Could some stem/bar/seatpost changes make it less of an upright ride and more towards the pug perhaps? Or would I be fighting the frame geometry and never really getting along with the bike? If I got a 9zero7, would I just simply get more used to it with more seat time, and enjoy a weight reduction compared to the pug? Why are Fatbacks so rare to see out and about in MN? Hard to find? These are some of the questions going through my head.

    Figured I would see if you guys with more riding experience than me might have some input as far as what direction I should start looking or things I should consider. Thanks much.

  2. #2
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    Are cracked Pugs frames common? Is that why they now have a seatpost gusset triangle?

  3. #3
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    I put many thousands of km on my 2005 Pugsley without any sign of frame cracking, and I know several other people who have high mileage Pugsleys also without breaking them.
    If you are determined to replace your bike, maybe the new on-one is right for you. It is intended as a trail bike, so it is much more like the pugsley in its geometry.

  4. #4
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    Ride the hell out of your Pugs. Enjoy it. Ride without fear. Take a peak at the suspect area every time you lube the chain. If, and thats a rare if, something happens, get a free yellow (revised) frame from Surly. Easy, no-cost solution.
    Jason
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  5. #5
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    the white pug was my first "high-end" bike (relative to department store bikes)..

    Is the frame crack issue likewise common across other bikes in the same price range as the pug?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakedbabytoes View Post
    Are cracked Pugs frames common? Is that why they now have a seatpost gusset triangle?
    No, it's affecting the rear of the seat tube. See this thread:

    Pugsley frame failure

    That thread is not the only place with examples of cracking Pugsleys I have seen. Also, it only seems to be affecting the snowblind white Pugs so far.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    Ride the hell out of your Pugs. Enjoy it. Ride without fear. Take a peak at the suspect area every time you lube the chain. If, and thats a rare if, something happens, get a free yellow (revised) frame from Surly. Easy, no-cost solution.
    Oh, I have been watching it like a hawk. I would love to ride this bike until the end of time, but I bought it used. Surly isn't going to give me a free replacement if/when it cracks, I presume. Plus, I don't want to be constantly worried about a crack starting to appear, and constantly looking for it and such.

    Has the yellow frame really been revised, to address this problem?

  8. #8
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    Yes, the new red/yellow frames have a revised seatstay/seattube junction.
    Jason
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  9. #9
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    Hey;

    Don't worry about it. It's a steel frame. It won't fail suddenly. If it even does crack, it is a snap to weld it back up, reinforce it a little even, and carry on. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Now, if you're looking for excuses to get a new bike, well....
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  10. #10
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    Take it for what its worth but the bike is already two years old and not all the frames are failing. If you end up that concerned about it you should have the concern with all bikes because any frame could fail. If the frame fails Surly frames are relativly low cost and you already have all the parts to swap. Think about it this way you wil probably loose some on the resale might as well enjoy the bike and just buy a frame later on if you need to.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Don't worry about it. It's a steel frame. It won't fail suddenly. If it even does crack, it is a snap to weld it back up, reinforce it a little even, and carry on. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Now, if you're looking for excuses to get a new bike, well....
    I'd be in this camp too. Those cracks are appearing in a spot that has a low probability of catastrophic failure. I also think it's probably a pretty isolated QC issue that we're seeing because it's so unusual...

  12. #12
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    My vote is to ride the heck out of it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldbike View Post
    I put many thousands of km on my 2005 Pugsley without any sign of frame cracking, and I know several other people who have high mileage Pugsleys also without breaking them.
    If you are determined to replace your bike, maybe the new on-one is right for you. It is intended as a trail bike, so it is much more like the pugsley in its geometry.
    On-One geometry looks to be very far from Pugsley. That is if you take the Mukluk to be way different than the Pugs. Given that HTA, rake, and fork length are all different it could ride identically or be totally different. Bottom line with bikes is you really need to ride them to see how they ride. This is especially true if you are the kind of guy that worries about what 1/2 degree of HTA difference will do.

    As to the potential frame crack, as others have said, ride it til it cracks (which is very low probability) and then weld it up. This probably only works if you can stop worrying about it so maybe try riding it for the rest of this season. See if you can stop worying and if not sell it as the season heats up (cools off?) next fall.
    Latitude 61

  14. #14
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    If mine cracks, I'll just have a buddy weld it up.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  15. #15
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    Like others have already said. It won't fail suddenly, or catastrophically. Out of all the Pugs I've sold over the years, only one has "failed", and I found it, the owner never even knew.

    Look for lines in the paint around the welds, but know that you could do this once a year and likely still not get stranded.

    Steel is real. Since you aren't the original owner, yes, no warranty, but it's super easy to weld and get another several years out of.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  16. #16
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    Ride the balls off it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Like others have already said. It won't fail suddenly, or catastrophically. Out of all the Pugs I've sold over the years, only one has "failed", and I found it, the owner never even knew.

    Look for lines in the paint around the welds, but know that you could do this once a year and likely still not get stranded.

    Steel is real. Since you aren't the original owner, yes, no warranty, but it's super easy to weld and get another several years out of.....
    Big point there, OP .... Even if cracked at that location, it's still gonna be rideable for many miles.

    If it cracks ... It won't leave you stranded, unless you intentionally abuse it, AFTER realizing it has cracked.

  18. #18
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    If it were to crack any welding shop can fix it and make it stronger than new with very little weight gain. Have it sand blasted first, than fixed and they can see if there are any other problems at that point.Then you can have it power coated or painted to a custom color it's a winning problem.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    On-One geometry looks to be very far from Pugsley...
    Strangely, if you stick a Pug fork on the On-One frame the figures look very similar.

    You get:

    ..................Fatty*.......Pug
    HA.............70.15.....70.5
    BB drop......56mm.....55mm
    Trail............89mm....87mm
    Flop............28mm....27mm

    With the same fork on each frame there's not much variation, so the difference is largely down to the forks.

    Maybe we'll see Pug owners snapping up On-One forks to get the Fatty feeling, or Fatty owners getting Pug forks to recapture the Pug characteristics.




    *that's the Fatty geometry with a Pug fork fitted
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    If it were to crack any welding shop can fix it and make it stronger than new with very little weight gain. Have it sand blasted first, than fixed and they can see if there are any other problems at that point.Then you can have it power coated or painted to a custom color it's a winning problem.
    Bingo

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    If it were to crack any welding shop can fix it and make it stronger than new with very little weight gain. Have it sand blasted first, than fixed and they can see if there are any other problems at that point.Then you can have it power coated or painted to a custom color it's a winning problem.
    I'd take such a frame in a heartbeat, and do exactly as you said

    Easy repairs ... It's the real advantage of steel.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    That thread is not the only place with examples of cracking Pugsleys I have seen. Also, it only seems to be affecting the snowblind white Pugs so far.
    True, but it DOES seem like the other postings elsewhere are by the same people...posting the same pictures trying to be the squeaky wheels saying the engineering is bad, without having an engineering degree...

    g

  23. #23
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    And to the OP's question my Fatback and my Pugs don't really ride the same. Of coarse if you feel the need for a new bike sell it and buy something else you don't need our permission, heck I do it several times a year. That being said if you really like it I'm with the others, ride the hell out of it.
    And I love beer!!

  24. #24
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    It's a bicycle , Man..... Ride it !! Personally, I love my Pug's, and let me tell you, if it broke, I would weld it, and be on my way. Even as the original (warranted) owner, if it broke, I would weld it before sending it back. But dont overthink this. It's just a bicycle. Sounds like your losing sleep over something that may, or may not happen. It WONT leave you stranded. Hell, a crack in That area doesnt even require dissasembly. Ride your bicycle. Love your bicycle. and Keep your bicycle. It'll be ok man.......

  25. #25
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    Mine is cracked - Maybe

    Mine has a crack in the HAZ as shown below. I will ride it until I see rust stains. This will let me know it is truly a crack in the metal and not the paint. It currently bleeds back fluorescent penetrant but this could still just be a paint issue. If it progresses and Surly covers it - cool. If not, I will get it rewelded, locally annealed and painted/powder coated in a better and cooler color
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pugsley alternatives (scared of frame cracking)-pugsley-frame-crack-1.jpg  


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