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  1. #1
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    Paint or Powder on fatbike rims.

    Ive just got myself another set of Marge Lites and im going to get them powdered before building them up.

    Anyone got any pro's of cons on getting them powdercoated over painted ?

    Was just going to drop them down to the local powdercoater and get him to powder some day glow colour straight over the black ano finish.

    Also has anyone successfully removed and reinstalled the decals or is there somewhere I can get replacements.
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  2. #2
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    Attachment 803079
    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Ive just got myself another set of Marge Lites and im going to get them powdered before building them up.

    Anyone got any pro's of cons on getting them powdercoated over painted ?

    Was just going to drop them down to the local powdercoater and get him to powder some day glow colour straight over the black ano finish.

    Also has anyone successfully removed and reinstalled the decals or is there somewhere I can get replacements.
    me gots the answers OZZY. Yes by all means powder as i had my ML's done in orange with great success. Paint will not hold up to tire lever use very well along with other abuse they may get. Have them blasted then coated and if your inclined to have a clear coat they can do that as well.
    I also had replica rim decals made to replace the OEM's from a local signage co.
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    Nice one phatty... will take them down to the powdercoaters tomorrow morning and get them blinged up
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    Nvphatty...Was it required to have the rims blasted before the powder coating...or was that something you had done to keep the black from showing through when they got dinged?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    Nvphatty...Was it required to have the rims blasted before the powder coating...or was that something you had done to keep the black from showing through when they got dinged?
    Required?? maybe, maybe not. A lill history for me goes way back to 1988 when i began having motorcycle parts blasted - PC'd and have never not had any part blasted be it with garnett, plastic, glass etc as it gives the powder an etched surface with the best possible adhesion factor, i.e. bare metal. Could one choose to forgo the blasting phase?? yes. I cannot quantify the durability factor between them just to be clear.
    In current day powder coating the possibilities are near endless of what can be done, i.e. ceramics for exhaust systems, coatings for plastic, base coat top coat type finishes etc.
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    Theres no way my powdercoater will strip the ano off..... i can hear him now "She'll be right mate"

    Ive got a glass bead blaster and a sand blaster in work so can strip them if needed then just give him the raw rims.
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    Paint or Powder on fatbike rims.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Theres no way my powdercoater will strip the ano off..... i can hear him now "She'll be right mate"

    Ive got a glass bead blaster and a sand blaster in work so can strip them if needed then just give him the raw rims.
    The rims should be blasted just before they go into the powdercoat booth. You want to minimize the oxidation and handling (skin oil, dirt) for best results.
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  8. #8
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    Ive been stripping and powdercoating old school BMX frames, forks, bars and various other items for over 10 years now. The chemical clean before powdering cleans the parts not the beadblast.
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    I had an early anodized 9zero7 frame powder coated and the shop I use for all my powdercoating said it was necessary to remove the anodizing before the powdercoat process.

    They have been a reliable vendor for my aircraft parts, so I did not question them. Like Ozzy's local guy........this shop does makes sure it is right!! I trust them. Advanced Powder Coating in Big Lake, Alaska!!

    Also, painting over anodizing.........I have found it difficult to get a good outcome until a two-part epoxy primer "super koropon" was used to get ahold of the anodizing.........other base coats, the "DP"-series fisheyed badly and would not "stick" to the anodizing.

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    Another vote for powder. The rims on my krampus are holding up well to the rocky trails around home.

    There is an easy way to remove anodising. Go to your hardware store and get some caustic soda crystals. Mix it up with hot water in a bucket (obviously large enough to fit in a section of wheel). Have a second bucket ready or a hose pipe to rinse the rim after dipping. It usually takes around 90 seconds to strip a rim.

    Pretty obvious, but wear some gloves, old clothes and some goggles when doing this. Do it outside as the gases given off are pretty bad too.

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  11. #11
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    easier way to remove the ano: Easy Off Oven Cleaner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post

    Also has anyone successfully removed and reinstalled the decals or is there somewhere I can get replacements.
    I removed my decals using a hair dryer to loosen the adhesive. They peeled of nicely. Just use some adhesive on the backside when you reapply them so they stick better.

    I found Easy Off oven cleaner works best on Ano. The active ingredient that removes ano is Sodium Hydroxide, so anything with that will remove the ano. Just be careful. Products like Lye will eat through aluminum real fast. Easy Off is pretty weak though and it will take spraying it a few times to get everything off.

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    See if your PC person can have them alodined, before the PC.
    If near saltwater, you'll appreciate the extra step.

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    Anyone got a price tag on getting this done? I want to do mine. Especially since I'm considering a Carver fork and will just build a new symmetrical wheel so I can swap back later if I'm inclined/backup. And I want to PC the new wheel before building.
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    Your powder coater should have his ovens set at about 450 deg. F. The temp required to anneal aluminum depending on it's grade is between 650 and 775 deg F. I had to option to powder coat my wheels but declined. The temps (if the guy runs his ovens on the high side) are just too close. I wouldn't recommend a single wall bicycle wheel - maybe something more 'beefy'. I've done dozens of motorcycle wheels... Just my $.02

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    Chopsmitty, that kinda the reason I asked about wet paint... the singlewall construction.

    Wet paint is more flexible due to the thinner makeup of it where powder is much thicker and less susceptible to flex. I had a good idea that people were getting them powdered so just wanted to get any pos/neg feedback. The rims are pretty stiff so will be fine.
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    Alright, removed the decals successfully so they can be transplanted. Took the rims down to my powdercoaters.... he scraped the rims on the inside with a knife and his decision was that he would do a 3-stage prep and clean on them then powder straight over the top of the ano finish. I have 100% faith in this guy as he's worked magic on every item ive taken to him over the years and theres been some dodgey rusted old school BMX parts.

    One set of marge lites in "Ken Block Green" coming soon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Paint or Powder on fatbike rims.-kbw.jpg  

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    Everything I've read about PC states that the temp is around 400 or a bit less, and that the average cook time is about 15 minutes max.

    You might slightly compromise your rims during a PC job, but based on knowledge of the annealing process ... PC temp and time isn't worth worrying about.

    775 degrees for a few hours ... But don't take my word on it

    Heat Treatment of Aluminum Alloys

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  19. #19
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    Its only 180 degC (350f), so it doesn't affect the metal in any way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochunk View Post
    Anyone got a price tag on getting this done? .
    $40 for the pair, if he had recommended blasting he would have been a little bit more, maybe an extra $10-20.
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  21. #21
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    I paid 70 to blast & PC, had them back the next day. Not a dang thing to worry about single wall rims in duh oven.
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    You probably won't have any trouble... My comments were based on years of experience. I built this bike for a magazine and the World Championship (AMD)

    The rear frame section moved over .400" during the powder coating process. When I questioned the shop that did the work, I discovered that they run their ovens in the 500 range and my frame was shot three times after being preheated. Total time in the oven was estimated to be about an hour. I've just been super careful ever since. Heat moves metal and all my hours building alum gas tanks has shown me that it doesn't take much heat to start to soften up the sheet.

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    I think I was quoted $75 per Marge Lite, including blast and powder. Custom order 2 step color was charged at cost for material ($35 I think). 2nd step/bake ended up being on the house. Warranty on chipping, cracking and peeling.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopsmitty View Post
    You probably won't have any trouble... My comments were based on years of experience.
    as are mine thank you...............ack my eyes ache now.
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    I checked into the "...anodizing must be removed..." statement yesterday.

    Apparently, this is no longer a necessity.

    Also, they said the initial heat is only 15 minutes, but the full heat is about an hour.

    Also, bare aluminum that is too thin to survive bead-blasting gets scuffed with Scotchbrite and acid-etched before powder.

    I, too, move metal with heat! I am totally with '-SMitty' about not wanting my efforts ruined by another vendor down the line who is sloppy........ala, too hot of an oven!

    BikeAbuser, do you have direct experience using Alodine conversion coating under powder? I am very interested in your results. Thanks!

    PS. The LBS had told me that Surly's fatrim line, (ML, CS, RD) are powdercoated. Is it true?

    PPS. One of the local Alaskan fatbiker pioneers has been doing polish jobs on rims and stuff for many years. As to weight savings after removing pc and polishing a set of ClownShoes, I was surprised how much weight was saved. Maybe he or others would chime in.

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    PPS, These Surly rims have a welded joint. They are not saying what, if any, heat treating is done after.

    My guess, formed from metal fab experience, is that there is absolutely zero issue with powdercoating these rims at the 450 degree Fahrenheit temps.

    Just for you folks who might not know........(simplified and summarized......."dumbed-down"...)............. heat followed by 'quench' (dipping in a cooling liquid) of most aluminum alloys results in a softening/annealing of the material. BUT... heat followed by quench of high-strength steel results in a HARDENING of the material......

    ...just some fun facts (simplified)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopsmitty View Post
    You probably won't have any trouble... My comments were based on years of experience. I built this bike for a magazine and the World Championship (AMD)
    The rear frame section moved over .400" during the powder coating process. When I questioned the shop that did the work, I discovered that they run their ovens in the 500 range and my frame was shot three times after being preheated. Total time in the oven was estimated to be about an hour. I've just been super careful ever since. Heat moves metal and all my hours building alum gas tanks has shown me that it doesn't take much heat to start to soften up the sheet.


    Nice work bro!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6roller View Post
    PS. The LBS had told me that Surly's fatrim line, (ML, CS, RD) are powdercoated. Is it true?
    Definately black anodised on the Marge lites.
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6roller View Post
    BikeAbuser, do you have direct experience using Alodine conversion coating under powder? I am very interested in your results. Thanks!
    Nope !!!
    But years ago I Alodined many parts while in the Navy, and they then got Zinc Chromated, and (depending on location) a finish coat of paint.

    I mentioned this because I have read that some companies use this method with PC as an additional barrier in saltwater intended applications (sorry no link).

    I also looked into the durability of a Poly-Paint like IMRON vs PC, and found many claims that PC is more durable, but no actual testing to verify the claims.

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    About to adopt a beargrease, would love to make those blue rims yellow. Anyone know if they're powdercoated?
    Last edited by ticketchecker; 05-29-2013 at 07:51 PM.

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    Hi Ozzy, can I ask where you are getting the rims powder coated? I have asked here on the Goldie and was quoted a LOT more than your quote.

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    I have a couple of places that do stuff for me, I have seriously had dozens of items done (maybe in the 100's) over the past 10 years. Depends on the item with which one I use but lately ive been using this place called HWH which isn't far from my place... the guy there is very knowledgeable in what way surfaces are going to react to powders and what prep he needs to do to get the best result.
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  33. #33
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    ..sorry, I should have said that these Surly rims are AVAILABLE powder coated.

    One LBS has a nice display of a bunch of different colors of RD's in the window. I was told they are PC.

    ..as far as durability, it depends. Some polyurethane topcoats are flexible and very durable. Usually, though, PowderCoat takes heavy abuse well.....but not heat. When I need to weld a powdercoated item, I burn it off with a torch, then wire brush it. Pretty easy!

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    Cheers for the info ozzy

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    I quickly paint my rims with rustoleum "Appliance enamel" with the plans of getting them powdercoated during the summer, but so far two things had happen, first I keep riding my fatbike during the summer and even more important the quick rattlecan job still holding really well so I think I'm just going to leave them alone.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    I quickly paint my rims with rustoleum "Appliance enamel" with the plans of getting them powdercoated during the summer, but so far two things had happen, first I keep riding my fatbike during the summer and even more important the quick rattlecan job still holding really well so I think I'm just going to leave them alone.
    given the process it takes from your position me thinks i would let them be as long as it holds up.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    I quickly paint my rims with rustoleum "Appliance enamel" with the plans of getting them powdercoated during the summer, but so far two things had happen, first I keep riding my fatbike during the summer and even more important the quick rattlecan job still holding really well so I think I'm just going to leave them alone.
    I thought about doing the same thing. I got some on hand because I was considering doing my cranks and brake levers and such. I only ever did a test on a cheap frame pump I have around. Other than me getting ham-fisted and laying on too thick of coats, it's been fairly tough.

    What's your process to ensure good results? I still am likely to PC a new rim if I get one, but I probably will still paint the other bits to be on the cheap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochunk View Post

    What's your process to ensure good results?
    Well the parts need to be very clean, then a good primer and finally a light coat of paint if they are to thick they tend to be to brittle and crack/come undone..

  39. #39
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    It's after lunchtime already Ozzy...finished building them up yet?
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  40. #40
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    They are not done yet Stevo.... though he said there was a possibility by COB Friday.

    Just finished a set of China Carbon light-bicycle 29er's though, they came up nice.

    I should hit them up to do a fat-rim
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    Thanks. I felt the jab

    lemme know how that comes out for you.

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    Well ive been slack, busy at work and doing a lot of riding lately which means not so much building bikes and net surfing.... which is good.

    Finished these last week but only getting around to loading the pictures up.

    These were a straight swap from 47mm Trialtech rims, taped the marge Lite to it and swapped 1 spoke at a time, the spokes fitted perfectly though I cant remember the exact size as I bought from a LBS but 262mm rings a bell, all I had to do was reprep the threads and replace about 10-12 nipples as they looked a bit wrenched.

    Turned out well for a $40 powder coat then finished by super gluing the decals back on.

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    Looking good, Oz !

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    Pretty sharp OZ. being able to remove & replace the decals worked out well.
    plus+, plus+ = win:

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    Cheers fellow fattys. I just need to work out what rimstrips and turn them tubeless.
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