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  1. #1
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Origin 8 Crawler fat bike

    Origin 8 came up with a bit of a surprise with this "Crawler" fat bike. Details were scarce, since it only arrived in the U.S. a few days ago. Here's what I do know now....

    Aluminum frame, 135 X 135 frt/rear spacing, Nuvinci rear hub and some extended front hub with no-name. Fork was steel with dual rack mounts.

    They said it'll be sold as I saw it, and should be "pretty reasonable". No word on when, or on geometry, or even if they will offer it in different sizes.

    I rode it, and its quicker handling than a Mukluk, but it weighs at least well north of 40lbs. Lots to lug there! Rims were something I haven't seen before either and were at least 80mm wide.

    No hangar for a derailleur, this is SS or IGH only.

    It handled the rocks and scree great. I even ticked off a DH rider when I passed him on the demo loop I was on.

    More if I can find out.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Origin 8 Crawler fat bike-dscf8220.jpg  

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  2. #2
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    But will it fit the BFL on 100's?
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnitman View Post
    But will it fit the BFL on 100's?
    I think that's become the deciding factor for a lot of my frame choices now lol

  4. #4
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    GT what do you think the quicker handling is attributed to? Steeper head tube angle?
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  5. #5
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    The tyres don't appear to have a Surly logo.

    Blacked out, or a different tyre?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  6. #6
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    Wow SS or IGH only, interesting tack to take.

    Pretty sure those are the Chinese-made Weinmann rims. Which tires are they running?
    EDIT: Saw your other post on V-Rubber, thanks.
    Last edited by CLONG; 09-13-2011 at 02:54 AM.
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  7. #7
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    I've just checked out the origin 8 website there dosen't appear to be an email to contact them. I've been looking for a trail friendly fat bike for ages and quite like the offerings from sandman and on one, but they've all gone 170 at the rear so no Rohloff compatability. This could potentially be perfect, but so many questions.
    Frame and fork only ?
    F+F Weight?
    BB height?
    Geometery ?

    Is it another snow / sand bike or are they going the On One approach of a xc / trail set up?
    Exciting stuff, thanks for the post.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnitman View Post
    But will it fit the BFL on 100's?
    Quote Originally Posted by wieczorek24 View Post
    I think that's become the deciding factor for a lot of my frame choices now lol
    Now that I know my Fatback will fit BFL/100 - my deciding factor will be fitting NextGenerationFatties! You know, 6" or so?
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  9. #9
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Some answers: First- it will in no way work with the BFL on 100mm rims, and probably not on 80's. This bike appears to have been developed without foreknowledge of the BFL's existence. Clearances with the Vee Rubber Devast8er were tight as is.

    Handling was quicker due to a definite shorter wheel base than my Mukluk, and probably a steeper head angle. In fact, it reminds me a bunch of the Pugsley.

    Don't bother pestering Origin 8. As I understand, there is one guy that worked on the project that knows all the deets, and no one else here, (Almost everybody that works for Origin 8/J&B Importers is here), knows anything about the bike. I'll see if I can track him down inside the show Wednesday.
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  10. #10
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    It looks to have a very steep head tube..... Atleast 5 degrees more than the seat tube which is probably arround 73. I wonder how that'd work with super low pressure?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    The tyres don't appear to have a Surly logo.

    Blacked out, or a different tyre?
    Vb, these are the Vee Rubber tires.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    It looks to have a very steep head tube..... Atleast 5 degrees more than the seat tube which is probably arround 73. I wonder how that'd work with super low pressure?
    Nicely IMO.

    I'm running a 72º HA on a half fat and using a fork that is 35mm shorter than specified which steepens it even more.

    Bike steers well and feels nimble. Completely removes the flat tyre steering effect at low pressures. I'll probably lengthen the AC of the fork because that setup is a bit too quick when my reactions slow after several hours racing (but it's good for ordinary riding IMO).

    I haven't tried it in the snow yet though.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  13. #13
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    GT...can you snap some pics of the rear dropout system, or comment on them.
    -rhino

  14. #14
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    I've been lurking in this forum drooling over all the fat bikes. This looks like one that I'd be able to get my fat bike journey started on.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    135 X 135 frt/rear spacing.
    Is the rear offset at all?

  16. #16
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanseeds View Post
    GT...can you snap some pics of the rear dropout system, or comment on them.
    -rhino
    Yeah, I'll see if I can get some pics of that. It is a slotted drop out with two hardware store looking 13mm bolts on each side. Pretty crude, but effective!
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  17. #17
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    Is the rear offset at all?
    Non-offset frame in aluminum.
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  18. #18
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    No provision for a front der? I've thought a 3x1 with a close chainring tooth-count and a high quality front der could be a simple and dependable drivetrain alternative.
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  19. #19
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnitman View Post
    No provision for a front der? I've thought a 3x1 with a close chainring tooth-count and a high quality front der could be a simple and dependable drivetrain alternative.
    You would still need a RD-type tensioner. Simpler to do a 1x3.
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  20. #20
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    If you can have a non offset frame why are all other 135 rear end fat bikes offset. How do you get the straight chainline without an offset rear? Does it have a 100mm BB?
    Sorry if this is obvious to other people but I'm a little confused

  21. #21
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose2008 View Post
    If you can have a non offset frame why are all other 135 rear end fat bikes offset. How do you get the straight chainline without an offset rear? Does it have a 100mm BB?
    Sorry if this is obvious to other people but I'm a little confused
    Single chainring, single cog (internal geared hub). Might still use a 83mm BB.
    Last edited by shiggy; 09-14-2011 at 06:58 AM.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Non-offset frame in aluminum.
    So either they depend on a chainline that is out of alignment, or the NuVinci hub has its cog closer to the dropout than say an Alfine.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    So either they depend on a chainline that is out of alignment, or the NuVinci hub has its cog closer to the dropout than say an Alfine.
    The latter is definite, by a small amount. 49mm chain line on the N360. Source.

  24. #24
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    January availability according to J&B rep. We just ordered three for our shop! 18 and 20 inch sizes....


    Mikey
    Last edited by mikeyonthemadone; 09-17-2011 at 08:56 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyonthemadone View Post
    January availability according to J&B rep. We just ordered three for our shop! 18 and 20 inch sizes....


    Mikey
    What's the price on 'em?

  26. #26
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    I only have the wholesale prices, no retail yet....

  27. #27
    Caveman
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    saw this bike at the show, and yes the chainline takes a decent bend.

  28. #28
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    This would be a great street fighter with some jones bars and black floyds. Think g out loud.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyonthemadone View Post
    I only have the wholesale prices, no retail yet....
    Booth staff told me it would retail for around $1400.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanseeds View Post
    GT...can you snap some pics of the rear dropout system, or comment on them.
    -rhino
    Not the best shot but here you go:


  31. #31
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    Another view of it:


  32. #32
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    The fork leaves room to grow the front tire quite a bit fatter.


  33. #33
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    Nice Addition to the Stable

    Fat bike fix at a price I can afford. Saw it at the show, and looks like a better set-up than the Spider AT. Anybody know who the Southern California dealers are? I don't expect this to be just sitting on a shop floor anytime in the near future. Probably a special order?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre meux View Post
    Booth staff told me it would retail for around $1400.
    That's quite a bit higher than I would have expected.

  35. #35
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    If you want one, I suggest putting one on backorder at your dealer NOW. You won't get one otherwise.....


    Mikey

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMN View Post
    That's quite a bit higher than I would have expected.
    I thought so too, but Nuvinci isn't giving their stuff away either. However at $1400, it would be nice if they could figure out a belt-drive too

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMN View Post
    That's quite a bit higher than I would have expected.
    Exactly what I was thinking, I was guessing they were going to try to hit that $1000-1200 price point. $1400 is closing in on the rest.

  38. #38
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    I thought so too, but Nuvinci isn't giving their stuff away either. However at $1400, it would be nice if they could figure out a belt-drive too

    Yes, I agree. Center Track this bike and keep the price the same.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyonthemadone View Post
    If you want one, I suggest putting one on backorder at your dealer NOW. You won't get one otherwise.....
    Is that because Origin8 isn't making very many of them?

    I just don't see much demand for this bike if it's $1400. That's within $250 of a Pug or $100 of a Mukluk, right? Or are the prices on the Muk and Pug going up in 2012? The O8 is heavier, apparently has a poor chainline, no rear derailleur hanger, and it sounds like you might not be able to run a Big Fat Larry in the back.

    I'm not familiar with the Nuvinci, does it have the same range as a 2x9 drivetrain?

    I was hoping this would be the first $1000 fat bike.
    Last edited by FTMN; 09-18-2011 at 10:31 AM.

  40. #40
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMN View Post
    Is that because Origin8 isn't making very many of them?

    I just don't see much demand for this bike if it's $1400. That's within $250 of a Pug or $100 of a Mukluk, right? Or are the prices on the Muk and Pug going up in 2012?
    Muk 3's are about $1600, as I recall.


    The O8 is heavier, apparently has a poor chainline, no rear derailleur hanger, and it sounds like you might not be able to run a Big Fat Larry in the back.
    The fork will take that combo, but no way will the rear handle it.

    I'm not familiar with the Nuvinci, does it have the same range as a 2x9 drivetrain?

    I was hoping this would be the first $1000 fat bike.
    I don't think it has the low end, not at least as it was set up at the demo. The thing was, the Crawler was heavy and the gearing was slightly too high. The fix may be to go lower on the front chain ring tooth count, but IGH hubs don't cotton to really low torque, so who knows if the Nuvinci is up to that?

    I talked to Nuvinci a couple of years back, and they said the mtb use of a Nuvinci was okay. We'll see when these hit the trails how long the hub can last.

    Another thought: Those Vee Rubber tires were described to me as being "really heavy". I'm sure the rims are not that light either. So, we're talking a bigger wad of cash to mod this into something most here would put up with as a fat bike.

    I think for beginners and perhaps as a street bike or spare rig for some, this makes more sense. The Nuvinci is intriguing, and the frame looks nice, but with the other brands in fat biking just nailing it with the tire clearances, geometry, and price, this offering does seem a bit overpriced.

    I wish they'd consider a single speed version, which has more appeal for me, and should cost far less.
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  41. #41
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    My terse thoughts on having ridden a NuVinci'd Pugsley:

    - Curious, spooky smooth shifting.
    - I hear their durability rep is top notch. I never touched mine, it kept working. I geared it below torque minimum recommendation.
    - More expensive than Alfine 8, by a little. More range, by a little.
    - Heavier than an Alfine 8. Bunny hops feel different, but not more difficult.
    - You can change the shift direction with a small amount of mechanical knowledge.
    - One problem specific to mountain biking is when trying to mash a gear up a hill, I found over time that indexed shifting was actually favorable. I would definitely put this hub on a road bike though.
    - Fine tuning the shifting is easier than an Alfine because you can't miss a shift. It's impossible.

    I can see how they wouldn't be able to make $1,000 for MSRP.

  42. #42
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    Looks good from afar...but it is far from good

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    My terse thoughts on having ridden a NuVinci'd Pugsley:

    - Curious, spooky smooth shifting.
    - I hear their durability rep is top notch. I never touched mine, it kept working. I geared it below torque minimum recommendation.
    - More expensive than Alfine 8, by a little. More range, by a little.
    - Heavier than an Alfine 8. Bunny hops feel different, but not more difficult.
    - You can change the shift direction with a small amount of mechanical knowledge.
    - One problem specific to mountain biking is when trying to mash a gear up a hill, I found over time that indexed shifting was actually favorable. I would definitely put this hub on a road bike though.
    - Fine tuning the shifting is easier than an Alfine because you can't miss a shift. It's impossible.

    I can see how they wouldn't be able to make $1,000 for MSRP.
    The NuVinci is a constantly variable transmission. No steps in the ratio. The best way to use it is to constantly adjust the ratio to maintain the same pedaling cadence/effort. It can feel awkward if you treat it like a geared system.
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  44. #44
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    We just ordered three for our shop! 18 and 20 inch sizes
    No 16" size would drop it out of the running for me.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Muk 3's are about $1600, as I recall.

    The fix may be to go lower on the front chain ring tooth count, but IGH hubs don't cotton to really low torque, so who knows if the Nuvinci is up to that?

    I talked to Nuvinci a couple of years back, and they said the mtb use of a Nuvinci was okay. We'll see when these hit the trails how long the hub can last.
    Nuvinci is working on the hub for both e-bike and gas capability as well as us lowly muscle- powered types. They've put 5HP through it and had good results. I wouldn't worry about the durability. They have also really brought the weight down. If I remember correctly the original Nuvinci with a 26" Rhyno Lite was 10 pounds or so! Now the hub is much closer in weight to the Shimano IGHs.
    I am a co-owner of Schlick Cycles.

  46. #46
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by schmenzer View Post
    They have also really brought the weight down. If I remember correctly the original Nuvinci with a 26" Rhyno Lite was 10 pounds or so! Now the hub is much closer in weight to the Shimano IGHs.
    They have really brought the weight down?

    Well, that's still a boat anchor of a rear wheel on the Crawler. I'm guessing, of course, but the weight of the bike is well over 40lbs and very rearward biased.

    That said, I still thought there was potential there with the bike. Obviously the rims and tires are adding extra weight over more high end offerings, but the Nuvinci is a tankish hub no matter how you slice it.
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  47. #47
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    Yep thats some poundage but hey I used to ride around town on an extended wheelbased Dyno beach cruiser w/ Shimano 4 speed hub and total weight w/ basket 47.5 lbs!!! man was that thing fun comming down steep long streets......don't think I wanna off road at that weight though.

  48. #48
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    According to their site, the N360 is 2450 grams.

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    J&B Dropped the ball

    I really think Origin 8 missed an opportunity with this one. The IGH with Fatbikes is a niche within a niche as people say. So why bring a mediocre part spec with a high end IGH to the table?

    If this bike had a hanger and came stock as single speed, and retailed for $899 they would be taking names all day. Oh well. More money for QBP I suppose. (Which is a good thing! Go 45North, Whisky Parts and Surly! ...salsa too!)

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    couldn't disagree more!

    A der. hanger and centered wheel would make for few usable gears... so no that doesn't make sense at all.

    People are trying to use these things to go through terrain and sloppiness that normal bikes can't handle, most of the time that means gears are going to make their way on there.
    I'm not saying the nuvinci would've been my choice, but a ss wheel up front, an IGH in the back, regular width bb and no offset wheels... makes for as sealed a drivetrain as possible, you can probably use cranks/bb you already own, and an ss wheel that just gets swapped in if you want it.
    It makes loads of sense to have a bailout wheel that's identically built to your rear (which is the reason pugsley's front forks were originally offset the same as the frame. bailout wheel possibility)

    isn't fatback making a rear IGH adapter right now? we all agree that they know their ***** right? so yeah, IGH and fatbikes are definitely a logical combo.

    And yeah, they SHOULD sell them as ss bikes for under a grand, but more because there's a lot of IGH owners out there already but not that many swear by nuvincis.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

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