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  1. #51
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    i almost envision a fat trials bike!! especially with the "rock crawler" tag.

  2. #52
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    My intent was always for a all-round fat tire bike rather than a snow/sand specific model. Made my first notes about it last October and did a quick pitch for it in November when I was in the UK.

    I have an area near me with sand and lava/basalt rock. The rock outcroppings are just begging to be ridden. Should be a blast on fat tires @ 5 psi.

    Head tube is 44mm, for the size to fit the DT and use the Vertigo Cycles headset setup (supported by Cane Creek) to use straight or tapered steerer forks.

    The component buid spec is the same as the Salsa Mukluk. 170 rear, 135 front (w/rear disc spec), 100mm BB shell, and a similar A-C fork. You could easily mount a 29er sussy fork or long travel 26" fork and use a standard wheel. And Brant can spec a longer fork for his slacker frame angles.

    I also speced it with Swapouts, though I may have forgot to check caliper clearance with the SS version.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    I see that as well. An attempt at shorter chain stays, I presume.

    EDIT: I see further up now where Brant said the chain stays are 445mm/17.52". Not all that short after all! But then again, for soft stuff, short stays seem to not be wanted.

    I like Shiggy's suggestion that this is a "Rock Crawler", by the way.
    It is short for a fat tire frame that can still use a 3x9 drivetrain. I curved the ST mostly to keep a reasonable gap for snow and still use a front derailleur. If straight, there would be only about 1cm between tire and seat tube. Should be around 2cm as is.
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  4. #54
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    When can we buy one please.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey View Post
    I like the appearance of the toptube....but what I like even more than that is the possibility of greater framebag volume due to the wider "toptube".
    This is a low TT, so the total volume will likely be less than most current frames. I think under the twin TT will be great place to strap a spare inner tube.
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  6. #56
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    Awesome Shiggy!!!! Thanks for bringing this idea and design to us, I'll have one for sure.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    When can we buy one please.
    Yes, and how much?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    As long as there isn't any huge changes, I just found my next project! This is exactly what I was looking for and has just saved me a lot of time debating some things, thanks guys!!

    I'd be in favor of a slacker HT angle too.
    You aren't allowed to have a next project bike yet... Enjoy the B:S
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  9. #59
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    This frame kind of reminds me of the old "beer can" Cdale bikes back in the 80's.

    Also is there not going to be any rear brakes, I do not see any disc tabs or is it the angle of the picture? A coaster?

    Modular dropouts for SS or gears?
    Last edited by scottybinwv; 08-12-2011 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottybinwv View Post
    This frame kind of reminds me of the old "beer can" Cdale bikes back in the 80's.

    Also is there not going to be any rear brakes, I do not see any tabs? Or maybe a coaster?
    Memory can be a funny thing


    both from mombat.org
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  11. #61
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    more like this


  12. #62
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    At least I now understand Shiggy's reply to one of my posts about a month ago...

    Mixte frame, oh yes!
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    At least I now understand Shiggy's reply to one of my posts about a month ago...

    Mixte frame, oh yes!
    LOL!

    All it needs is a longer seat tube and "upper" seat stays!
    But why do that when we have long large diameter seat posts.
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  14. #64
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    Please tell me there is gonna be a version for the stubby-legged folks!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    My intent was always for a all-round fat tire bike rather than a snow/sand specific model. Made my first notes about it last October and did a quick pitch for it in November when I was in the UK.

    I have an area near me with sand and lava/basalt rock. The rock outcroppings are just begging to be ridden. Should be a blast on fat tires @ 5 psi.

    Head tube is 44mm, for the size to fit the DT and use the Vertigo Cycles headset setup (supported by Cane Creek) to use straight or tapered steerer forks.

    The component buid spec is the same as the Salsa Mukluk. 170 rear, 135 front (w/rear disc spec), 100mm BB shell, and a similar A-C fork. You could easily mount a 29er sussy fork or long travel 26" fork and use a standard wheel. And Brant can spec a longer fork for his slacker frame angles.

    I also speced it with Swapouts, though I may have forgot to check caliper clearance with the SS version.
    Awesome Shiggy! Maybe with a slight head tube angle massage by Brant this will be the bees knees for all-around fat biking. I am stoked to see how it all shakes out.
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  16. #66
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    Looking good and like the idea of a more all around fat bike.

    Looking forward to seeing what your build up choices are.

    Keep us posted with your progress; any plans for using any
    of the new tires comming up?

    Always great to see individualty of design.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Memory can be a funny thing

    both from mombat.org
    I should take pictures of mine and post some up. Just acquired four bikes from my fatherís storage space on Wednesdayó a 1982 Cannondale (same one as picturedó26" in front, 24" in rear), Trek T100 tandem cross bike (less than 5 miles on it), a 1979 Murray cruiser (made not in Taiwan but Tennessee), and a 1982 or 1983 DeFelice recumbent.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    1982 Cannondale (same one as picturedó26" in front, 24" in rear)
    Cannondale didn't make bikes at all until 1983, and didn't make mountain bikes until 1984. If your bike has the Weinmann/Shimano brake combination, it's an '84, as they switched to Suntour roller cams in '85.

  19. #69
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    couple newkie browns and some magners should help me with the wait...
    SO, ummm... that there flame front squishie fork'll fit riiiight?
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  20. #70
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    Are the drop outs vertical?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kypa View Post
    Are the drop outs vertical?
    Currently spec'ed with On One's "Swap Outs" which are modular, replaceable drop outs that come in single speed, track end style or vertical drop out style, if I recall correctly.

    Shiggy states earlier in this thread that the drop outs are the replaceable "Swap Out" style. This could change before final production.
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  22. #72
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    Looks like the bent ST could get your fanny weight back over the Rr. tire... kind of like shorter CS's do. Give me a little slacker HT and I'm in!!

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    Cannondale didn't make bikes at all until 1983, and didn't make mountain bikes until 1984. If your bike has the Weinmann/Shimano brake combination, it's an '84, as they switched to Suntour roller cams in '85.
    I stand corrected then. Many years and several beers later, I am just going from memory. I still need to have a thorough once-through with the bikeócleaning it up, adjusting things, etc., and then I will have a definitive answer which model year it is. So far I have the other three less exciting bikes cleaned up and in fine running order, hope to get to the Cannondale this week, and then Iíll have a picture of it to share.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    Looks like the bent ST could get your fanny weight back over the Rr. tire... kind of like shorter CS's do. Give me a little slacker HT and I'm in!!
    The effective STA at my saddle height is ~73 degrees or a bit steeper. Of course the higher you go the slacker the ESTA is.

    Ward, what is the HTA on your custom?
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  25. #75
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  26. #76
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    Shiggy / Brant how do you go about gauging the demand for these?

    (Did I read some place that there were only 200 Mukluks last year)

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    (Did I read some place that there were only 200 Mukluks last year)
    If that is true, look what it's already turning into after the first year ( 2 complete bike versions and a TI frame version for 2012).

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Shiggy / Brant how do you go about gauging the demand for these?

    (Did I read some place that there were only 200 Mukluks last year)
    I think you ride them to see if they work, and then you look at the places that have the terrain and weather they excel in. Thereís a BIG untapped market in Canada right now, for example. Iím a bit puzzled that no Canadian manufacturers have jumped into the market yet, but that may be because most of them are located in the lower mainland BC, which is the one place in Canada that doesnít get much snow and where there arenít that many beaches.

    Most of the regular bike riding public in Canada probably doesnít even know these bikes exist yet. Iíve ridden one, but only briefly and not in the snow. I know a small LBS owner here who has built and sold a couple on special order, to some ranchers I believe, and he says the owners are very happy, but they were expensive and heís not sure if there is enough demand to justify signing up to be a full Salsa dealer. The American manufacturers have either been trying to gouge Canadians, or they just havenít thought though how to ship their bikes to Canada, and as a result are doing it in a way that results in exorbitant shipping and duty costs. JensonUSA has figured it out. They can ship bikes to Canadians for typically under $150 duty and shipping included, but Surly wonít let them sell Pugsleys to Canadians.

    And so, alas, we wait. We wait for someone, anyone, to get serious about selling fat bikes to snowy Canada and us 35 million Canadians.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by BowHopper View Post

    Most of the regular bike riding public in Canada probably doesnít even know these bikes exist yet.
    Ding! Ding! Ding!

    It isn't just Canada either!

    I commuted on my Mukluk today, and I can't count the number of folks that were leaning out their car windows gawking at the thing. I bet more than a few of these folks will be mentioning my bike over beers in the next few days.

    The thing is that these are not just "snow bikes". Folks will have to be shown that they are "fun bikes". Then you'll start selling them anywhere.

    That's why Shiggy's suggestion for the naming of this On One offering is awesome. "Rock Crawler" will give folks a new idea about these bikes, and where and how they can be ridden. The Iceland thread is another awesome example of what I mean. Get these sorts of ideas into the Canadian's minds, (or here in the U.S.), and you'll see demand start to pick up.
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  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The effective STA at my saddle height is ~73 degrees or a bit steeper. Of course the higher you go the slacker the ESTA is.

    Ward, what is the HTA on your custom?
    70 degrees, just 1 degree less than yours. Front triangle is pretty long too for peddle (and toe-clip) clearence- and it was built w/ the Maverick fork in mind. If I was running it rigid in soft sand I think I'd like it to be 69. But, for sure, the 70 and the Mav have something to do with with it's all around capability's (high BB too!). Probably a little quicker single track/ dirt handling than the slacker angled FB's. On this one (the custom), in sand and snow, I do use a shorter stem & slide the seat back to make it handle more like the sand & snow specific bikes. You can change the feel of any bike quite a bit by changing the stem & seat position.
    One things for sure, your 71 degree proto is going to be quick handling... if the front end is long enough to keep you from going over the bars when hitting soft snow downhill & such and clears your toes in the switch backs... you might just have something there. Kind of glad you built it that way... it's going to answer some "what if" questions. Might end up being the best "Cross Country" FB yet.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Ding! Ding! Ding!

    It isn't just Canada either!

    I commuted on my Mukluk today, and I can't count the number of folks that were leaning out their car windows gawking at the thing. I bet more than a few of these folks will be mentioning my bike over beers in the next few days.

    The thing is that these are not just "snow bikes". Folks will have to be shown that they are "fun bikes". Then you'll start selling them anywhere.

    That's why Shiggy's suggestion for the naming of this On One offering is awesome. "Rock Crawler" will give folks a new idea about these bikes, and where and how they can be ridden. The Iceland thread is another awesome example of what I mean. Get these sorts of ideas into the Canadian's minds, (or here in the U.S.), and you'll see demand start to pick up.
    I agree, although calling them snow bikes in Canada isnít a bad thing. We get lots of snow here.
    Calgary snow pictures.

    Price is another important thing for the Canadian market, however. If we look online and see these bikes selling for $1500 in the US, often with free shipping, and then go down to our LBS and see them at $2100, most people are going to be left with a bad taste in their mouths, and they wonít buy. Itís not uncommon for American manufacturers to mark things up for the Canadian market, and we donít like it, so when it happens to this extent on a luxury item that most people donít really need, not many people are going to fork over the extra cash. For me personally I would be ok paying $1700 for the same bike, because there are some duty and shipping issues, but much more than that and I would start to feel gouged, and there is zero chance that I would pay $2100.

  32. #82
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    meh, fat or thin makes no difference.
    the size of your stones is what'll get you through the blizzard.

    my 2 cents?
    drive the market by bringing it here, don't wait for the market to come around.
    trust me, those who see it will understand it.
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  33. #83
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    Okay On-One selling a FB and hopefully the parts to make them work, puts FB's back onto the table to costly to import hope it's done in the standard VFM kinda way.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts View Post
    meh, fat or thin makes no difference.
    the size of your stones is what'll get you through the blizzard.

    my 2 cents?
    drive the market by bringing it here, don't wait for the market to come around.

    trust me, those who see it will understand it.
    I agree, and I'm kicking around ways to make that happen.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BowHopper View Post
    The American manufacturers have either been trying to gouge Canadians, or they just havenít thought though how to ship their bikes to Canada, and as a result are doing it in a way that results in exorbitant shipping and duty costs.

    And so, alas, we wait. We wait for someone, anyone, to get serious about selling fat bikes to snowy Canada and us 35 million Canadians.
    I think the bigger problem here is all the manufacturers that refuse to deal directly with Canadian shops - instead we have Norco/Lambert/OGC acting as middle man and taking their cut. But this topic's been beat to death, no sense getting into it here too.

    Surly is available to any Canadian shop with an NRG account - but again, middleman, SRP is $2100CDN for a complete Pugsley. To the best of my knowledge Salsa still doesn't have a Canadian distributor - so while their are shops willing to bring in Salsa product they aren't able to do it through the regular channels and not all shops are willing to take on that extra work.

    I ride a Fatback which I got directly from Speedway in Alaska - absolutely no problem getting it here - about $200CDN to ship to Central Ontario. And with how strong our dollar is compared to American right now it's a good time to jump - I know two other people who did just that and will be getting their Fatbacks in September.

    I'm right in the snowbelt of central Ontario - we get the big storms of Huron/Georgian Bay - and there's quite a strong fatbike community here. I started year's ago with pseudo-fats squeezing Gazzalodi's into whatever they'd fit - then the Pugsley came along and I suddenly had some people to ride with - now we have a core group of fat bikers and last year our local shop took notice stocking 3 Pugsley's (they still have a 2011 20" complete if you're looking)

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Pedachenko View Post
    I think the bigger problem here is all the manufacturers that refuse to deal directly with Canadian shops - instead we have Norco/Lambert/OGC acting as middle man and taking their cut. But this topic's been beat to death, no sense getting into it here too.

    Surly is available to any Canadian shop with an NRG account - but again, middleman, SRP is $2100CDN for a complete Pugsley. To the best of my knowledge Salsa still doesn't have a Canadian distributor - so while their are shops willing to bring in Salsa product they aren't able to do it through the regular channels and not all shops are willing to take on that extra work.

    I ride a Fatback which I got directly from Speedway in Alaska - absolutely no problem getting it here - about $200CDN to ship to Central Ontario. And with how strong our dollar is compared to American right now it's a good time to jump - I know two other people who did just that and will be getting their Fatbacks in September.

    I'm right in the snowbelt of central Ontario - we get the big storms of Huron/Georgian Bay - and there's quite a strong fatbike community here. I started year's ago with pseudo-fats squeezing Gazzalodi's into whatever they'd fit - then the Pugsley came along and I suddenly had some people to ride with - now we have a core group of fat bikers and last year our local shop took notice stocking 3 Pugsley's (they still have a 2011 20" complete if you're looking)
    Good post. Thanks. Iím interested in more information on what it cost you to bring in your Fatback, shipping and duty, and how you did it. I talked to them and they told me that they donít sell all that many to Canada, and it could cost as much as $500 all in.

  37. #87
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    I'll have to buy one as soon as it is available. Hopefully they will also offer it as a complete built. Fatbike-parts are hard to find (and mucho expensive) in Europe...

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Shiggy / Brant how do you go about gauging the demand for these?

    (Did I read some place that there were only 200 Mukluks last year)
    1. I design a bike I want to ride.

    2. I looked at what production bikes are out there now and did not try to duplicate them.

    3. We build some frames. If they sell out, we order more. If not...

    4. See #1.
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  39. #89
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    those could be the best design rules ive ever seen
    Josh

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    1. I design a bike I want to ride.

    2. I looked at what production bikes are out there now and did not try to duplicate them.

    3. We build some frames. If they sell out, we order more. If not...

    4. See #1.
    Looks like you guys are at Stage #3 now. I'd likely buy into this one.

    So, will there be a pink one on offer. (Just kidding, kind of!)
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  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Looks like you guys are at Stage #3 now. I'd likely buy into this one.

    So, will there be a pink one on offer. (Just kidding, kind of!)
    GT, I have s color and name in mind but will likely be overruled

    ---- post mangled by autospell on my phone -----
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  42. #92
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    By the beards of Zeus!
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  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    GT, I have s color and name in mind but will likely be overruled

    ---- post mangled by autospell on my phone -----
    Really? Man, I hope you are wrong about being over ruled.
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  44. #94
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    Shiggy/Brant - please put this thing out there! I want to sell my WRX and ride this to work year round. You could save me a ton of money and let me turn myself into a competitive racer instead of a weekend warrior. PLEASE help me justify parting with the car!

  45. #95
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    So kewl. Bring it to market and my current 29er would go up for sale in a heartbeat.

  46. #96
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    Will On One bring also 170 mm rear hub to market ?

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127 View Post
    Will On One bring also 170 mm rear hub to market ?
    It would seem foolish not to.

  48. #98
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    Okey, Folks at On One. When your Fat frame and suitable rear hub hit to the market,
    you will have at least one customer from Finland. Well, I am sure, that you will have some buyers from Finland, if the price is right. Like normal On One frame prices.
    Last edited by 127; 08-23-2011 at 09:57 AM.

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    ...hmm, any plans on adding an rear(and/or front)-rack option?

    might be secondary for some people, but i'd like to see that option if possible.

    i think this would further increase the year-round usefulness.

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    Brant, count me in for a fat frame or complete to Holland. Thanks Shiggy/Brant. It is time for some real fatbikes in Europe. In the meantime I am trying to get the Wildfire bike here on Mtbr shipped to my country.
    Ridin ridin ridin..... raw ti!

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