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  1. #51
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    So there must be a liitle "edge" inside the rim to hold the tire safely? I zoomed the rabbithole drawing in the surly 2014 catalogue - and there are edges - look at the attached picture!

    So the rabbithole is more tubeless safely than the dually?Name:  rabbithole.png
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  2. #52
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    Reps aside, I have two Velocity P35 running tubeless on an off road unicycle, one with a Knard 29, the other with a Hans Dampf Super G.

    At 200# I am no lightweight, and I put waaaaay more sideload and compressive load on my tires than any two wheeler, yet other than the occassional burp, they are steady performers.

    I agree that a good tubeless rim will have a shelf, shelfhook, and lip hook so the tire bead locks into place, BUT even that will not prevent a tire from pushing out of the hook with sufficient side loading.

    You guys are being overly critical, kinda OCD really, maybe you need to cut back on the caffeine??? The worst flats I have had were blow outs from tubes splitting and a tire bead blowing off the rim (bad tire).

    There are no guarantees in life, all you can do is base your decisions on what you observe. I am far more worried about crashing into a tree than I am about a tire blowing off a rim.

  3. #53
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    A little side by side comparison.

    Name:  Dually-profile-web_1.png
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  4. #54
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    Just took delivery of a Dually 29 this week! Just waiting on a WTB Laserdisc Lite hub to show up and I'll have it laced up.

    I'm still up in the air about which tire to try first. I really want to get my hands on the new Dirt Wizard 29x2.7 from Surly, but there is no news when that will be available. I have an older Ardent 2.4 I could throw on.

    Currently I'm using a Niner carbon fork, but may grab a Karate Monkey fork if there is not enough clearance. I'll post pics once the wheel is done.

  5. #55
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    I wouldn't hold your breathe on the DW. It will come when it comes. Could be next March.

    What bike is the dually going on?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  6. #56
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    I have to admit I have a bit of fat bike envy, so I plan to give my SIR9 a chubby front. It's currently set up rigid with an Ardent 2.4 on Arch in the front which I really like, but I thought a wider rim and lower PSI might make it a little more compliant.

  7. #57
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    Any ride reports yet guys? Also how well they set up tubeless with Knards?
    The LPG

  8. #58
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    bead lock and angled spoke holes, aka, WTB TCS would make me warm and fuzzy.
    otherwise the occasional burp , on a front wheel, will cost me a collar bone , especially the rock gardens I ride. sure it's gonna be fine for most, but that does not mean it's correct. maybe ride the dually in rear in rabbit-hole in front , for my fuzzy collarbone feeling ?!

  9. #59
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    When oh when oh when? Got my knards in today, Krampus tomorrow, just waiting on the Duallys so I can get them built up!

  10. #60
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    Lots of talk in this thread about tubeless use with this rim. Would be nice to see some pics from anyone who has gotten hands on these rims. A good shot of the seating area and thougths would be appreciated.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  11. #61
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    I will happily oblige as soon as I get them in my grimy little hands!

  12. #62
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    You guys realized that SnowCat rims are 44mm wide and have been available for like 20 years, right?
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  13. #63
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    Would nipple washers help building up P35s ?
    I have a pair, but not sure what size rear tire will work tubeless...a 2.4 would be too big I'm sure. I got some Vee Rubber Speed R 29 x 2.40 I want to use...hoping they'll work tube less and fit inside a 2011 Recon Silver fork.but from what i'm reading...it might be too big up front as well.
    ...any suggestions?
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  14. #64
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    Crossing my fingers these will be offered in the same swanky anodized flavors as the Blunt 35.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
    Crossing my fingers these will be offered in the same swanky anodized flavors as the Blunt 35.
    That would be cool, but I bet it'll take a few years and a few more 29+ bikes to get to that point.
    Mountain bikers who don't road ride have no legs...
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  16. #66
    beer *****es n' bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
    Crossing my fingers these will be offered in the same swanky anodized flavors as the Blunt 35.
    Right now we're doing Black and Polished primarily, and a few special request Mill finish (no finish). Down the road we're going to look more at color options.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  17. #67
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    I have heard that 45mm and up tires will fit, and I have mainly heard talk about the 29er(622ISO), but it also comes in 26"(559), so would that mean it can use any 26" tire wider than 45mm, including Bud and Lou 4.8". I don't think it would be dangerous, but that is well over the common 2:1 recommendation(120mm tire, 39mm rim[iso width]).

    the inside width is very close to a 47mm trials rim, so up to 4.0" labeled tires should work, as they are commonly used on the trials rims.

    just to put my 2 cents in on tubeless ready rims, noting that I have not that much experience with tubeless bicycle tires, I don't think the dually, or P35, or even the new version rim in the left side of the picture look particularly well suited to running low pressures while tubeless. They may be great at allowing the tire to inflate easily, but don't look very adept at holding it to the sidewall with anything other than air pressure, or a bit of friction from a tight fitting tire bead, which cannot be counted on with bicycle tires.

    I do have some experience with tubeless tires for 4 wheeled vehicles running fairly low pressures(10-20psi), which of course have much higher side loads being vertical when turning, and a bump, lip in the extrusion or protrusion behind the bead seat is critical in keeping the tires from burping at lower pressures. Of course, sometimes bead locks that clamp the tires to the rim with a metal ring and bolts are used, not only to keep the tires from slipping under engine or brake torque, but to keep them from loosing air. That would definitely be too heavy, and negate any tubeless benefits on a bicycle though.

    As far as my experience with bicycle tires and rims, the Surly rim I have(Marge lite) has a nice bead lip, and I may try tubeless on it, But the OnOne rims and the Neon trials rims look like they are better off just sticking to tubes, even though they do have a bead shelf. If I were to get some Duallies, I would probably give it a shot, if the tires fit pretty tight, but I would be leery of running less than 12psi or so, which is about what I'm limited to even with tubes on the OnOne rims.

    But, overall, I really like the Dually, just wish they could have gone a little farther with the tubeless idea and put some bead nips, or whatever you want to call the ridge behind the tire bead on the bead shelf. Even if running higher pressures, it is good to have the security in case you are loosing air somewhere else, then hit a rock or something at a bad angle.

    I really like the profile of the Spank Stiffy rim. It is a little bit heavier of an extrusion to be bulletproof for downhill, etc. With that profile and thinner extrusion in a wider(50mm) width would be a great trail wheel for fat bikes that get hammered hard. I contacted them once sometime late last year or early this year to see if they were interested in maybe doing a 50-65mm for fat bikes, and they said no, but things may change.

  18. #68
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    Not disagreeing with anyone here, more of a question... is anyone planning on running pressures that low, 10-12psi? I don't think of these as much as fat tire rims as 29+ (maybe cause I plan on using these on my Krampus). On my SS with Flows and 2.3" tires, I run around 28psi. I am 6'5" at 220 lbs, and was thinking I could drop to low to mid 20s psi.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    Not disagreeing with anyone here, more of a question... is anyone planning on running pressures that low, 10-12psi? I don't think of these as much as fat tire rims as 29+ (maybe cause I plan on using these on my Krampus). On my SS with Flows and 2.3" tires, I run around 28psi. I am 6'5" at 220 lbs, and was thinking I could drop to low to mid 20s psi.
    I'm 175lbs and usually riding with 40lbs of clothes, gear, food. I'm not great about measuring pressure, but I figure I'm around 20 psi +/-2 psi. I'd be pinch flatting every 5mins at 10 psi.
    Safe riding,

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  20. #70
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    I'm usually around 230-240lbs plus riding gear and run my rear at 17-18 and front at 14-15 with Rabbit Holes. I suspect I might need a little more if I switch to the Dually's. I'm also running a suspension fork.
    The LPG

  21. #71
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    Thanks y'all, that helps a bit. As you can see by my post count, I am no pro at this!

  22. #72
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    I have heard that 45mm and up tires will fit, and I have mainly heard talk about the 29er(622ISO), but it also comes in 26"(559), so would that mean it can use any 26" tire wider than 45mm, including Bud and Lou 4.8". I don't think it would be dangerous, but that is well over the common 2:1 recommendation(120mm tire, 39mm rim[iso width]).
    It will fit, but IME I would never ride a 45mm tire on a 50mm rim. 52-54mm (~2.2") is as narrow as I would go.

    Using a tire about the same width as the rim can result in the tire feeling harsh and dead. Poor ride. Poor handling. Also increases the chance of pinch flats and sidewall damage.

    I have tried the Big Fat Larry 4.5 on a 45mm rim, too. Had it peel off twice. Once on the trail. Once in the shop, just sitting there overnight.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    It will fit, but IME I would never ride a 45mm tire on a 50mm rim. 52-54mm (~2.2") is as narrow as I would go.

    Using a tire about the same width as the rim can result in the tire feeling harsh and dead. Poor ride. Poor handling. Also increases the chance of pinch flats and sidewall damage.

    I have tried the Big Fat Larry 4.5 on a 45mm rim, too. Had it peel off twice. Once on the trail. Once in the shop, just sitting there overnight.
    the BFLs aren't much wider than a clown shoe are they? Isn't it pretty close to 1:1?
    and, aren't some people putting 3.8-4.0 tires on 100mm rims. that would be a tire narrower than the rim. I wouldn't do it.

    I have heard people on here argue that using a wider rim, close to or even wider than the tire will make it ride better and less likely to pinch flat due to greater air volume. I disagreed.

  24. #74
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    I find the Larry/Endos I've got on my Pugs on 82mm rims don't have a great shape for dirt riding. They were better on 65mm rims. I suspect the sand flotation would be better though, but I haven't had the opportunity to verify that yet.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  25. #75
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    I had an old trashed 26" wheel (24mm I think) I mounted my beat up old huskerduda on it for laughs - the profile looks awesome, makes me wanna ride on it.
    Should take a pic or it's just make believe right! Puts the knardsONrabbits to shame.

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