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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I see the difference you're referring to, and agree that (in theory at least) it does look to be much better.

    The bulk of my experience with your rims, tubeless, is with the P/Blunt 35. I've got several of these on the shelf right now in 26", 650b, and 29". Precisely zero of these have any sort of shelf--they all closely resemble the older, non-tubeless A23 you pictured.

    And there is no way that that rim is safe to run tubeless. Not now, not ever. Without a bead lock it simply can't prevent the bead from moving inward and expelling air. I'll freely admit that I've neither seen nor touched the Dually, so maybe it is different. From the pics you've shared it doesn't appear to be.

    Until I see rims coming through the normal distribution channels with a bead shelf, I stand by what I've said--your tubeless rims are not safe for tubeless.
    Are you saying that you don't have or never seen the tubeless design rims pictured above? If not, how can you be so flatulent?

  2. #27
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I see the difference you're referring to, and agree that (in theory at least) it does look to be much better.

    The bulk of my experience with your rims, tubeless, is with the P/Blunt 35. I've got several of these on the shelf right now in 26", 650b, and 29". Precisely zero of these have any sort of shelf--they all closely resemble the older, non-tubeless A23 you pictured.

    And there is no way that that rim is safe to run tubeless. Not now, not ever. Without a bead lock it simply can't prevent the bead from moving inward and expelling air. I'll freely admit that I've neither seen nor touched the Dually, so maybe it is different. From the pics you've shared it doesn't appear to be.

    Until I see rims coming through the normal distribution channels with a bead shelf, I stand by what I've said--your tubeless rims are not safe for tubeless.
    I agree with Mike. There is more to being a tubeless rim than just having the bead seat shelf, which is part of the standard ISO/ETRO rim spec. The others use the UB (US) rim profile which actually are intended for a tire bead shape not used for modern tires.

    For successful tubeless the bead seat shelf width, inner bead ridge, shelf to sidewall to hook shape, and bead seat diameter are critical.
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  3. #28
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    I cannot find them now - but I swear I saw a set of drilled single wall 700C snow rims on the Velocity web site... I posted a link on the Krampus thread - but it just goes to the Velocity site..
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  4. #29
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    I'm 1 for 2 for running tubeless on P35s. Racing Ralph 2.4s on my hardtail 29er have been bulletproof for an entire season. Big Apple 2.35s were way too loose to even try.

    Love the rims either way...

  5. #30
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    ...so then you're 1 for 1?

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumpus View Post
    ...so then you're 1 for 1?
    Hmmm... That's a brain teaser. One pair worked out of two attempts. I think 1 AND 1 would be the score, but 1 OF 2 seems like a legitimate tally system as well.

    Will review after copious caffeine ingestion.

  7. #32
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    What is a good "mid fat" tire and do you know what frames will accommodate this combination other than a fat bike frame?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weinerts View Post
    I cannot find them now - but I swear I saw a set of drilled single wall 700C snow rims on the Velocity web site... I posted a link on the Krampus thread - but it just goes to the Velocity site..
    I remember that. They were white and limited edition. I thought they were maybe a complete pre-built wheelset.
    Safe riding,

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    Are you saying that you don't have or never seen the tubeless design rims pictured above? If not, how can you be so flatulent?
    There's 2 people on the forum you should listen to regarding tyres, one is Shiggy, the other is mikesee.

    You don't have to agree with them, but they are speaking from considerable experience.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by changingleaf View Post
    What is a good "mid fat" tire and do you know what frames will accommodate this combination other than a fat bike frame?
    Pete -- the new Surly Instigator and the Krampus come to mind.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    Are you saying that you don't have or never seen the tubeless design rims pictured above? If not, how can you be so flatulent?
    How many wheels have you built? I'd like to look at your web site to get an idea of your experience, can you link it here?
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    How many wheels have you built? I'd like to look at your web site to get an idea of your experience, can you link it here?
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.
    Yeah, you might really do well to look around this forum a bit more and get an idea to whom you're referring before you go shooting your mouth off.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.
    Polite and direct: the person's opinion you are questioning is a professional wheel builder. He's seen their product, built with their product and ridden their product. New product design has been equated to old products (by manufacturer voice) which he has in his stock room. You do not have to agree with the opinion, but you can't question the credentials which have led to the informed opinion.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    There's 2 people on the forum you should listen to regarding tyres, one is Shiggy, the other is mikesee.

    You don't have to agree with them, but they are speaking from considerable experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by MauricioB View Post
    Yeah, you might really do well to look around this forum a bit more and get an idea to whom you're referring before you go shooting your mouth off.
    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    Polite and direct: the person's opinion you are questioning is a professional wheel builder. He's seen their product, built with their product and ridden their product. New product design has been equated to old products (by manufacturer voice) which he has in his stock room. You do not have to agree with the opinion, but you can't question the credentials which have led to the informed opinion.
    Funny thing is I neg repped him with the same flatulence comment he made about Mike and he neg repped me back for irrelevant person insult- LOL
    Last edited by TwoTone; 08-06-2013 at 12:22 PM.
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.
    The way I read it was that a very high percentage have difficulty making tubeless work. Fair comment.

    Bearing in mind that many of the old hands here use their fatbikes to go into very remote places, some conservatism regarding equipment is to be expected. It's one thing to have something on the bike fail at a trail park, and a completely different thing if it happens hundreds of miles from anywhere.

    If you just want to play at trail parks, then you don't need to listen to mikesee, but if you want to go far into the hinterland it's very much worth listening to him.

    So far on this forum we have managed to avoid the unpleasantness that blights other forums. It would be decent if you retracted that flatulent remark. (You don't have to agree with him)

    And as MauricioB suggests it's worth checking back posts of anyone you disagree with before posting antagonistic replies. In my opinion there's more depth of experience here in this forum in practical bike technicals than most of the other forums.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  17. #42
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    I'm excited for this. When will QBP have them? Or should we just call Velocity direct? Slightly less convenient, however.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    I'm excited for this. When will QBP have them? Or should we just call Velocity direct? Slightly less convenient, however.
    QBP is getting a good chunk of our first shipment, which we're expecting early fall, or *maybe* late summer (fingers crossed)... they'll have them about the same time we do.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    [...] In my opinion there's more depth of experience here in this forum in practical bike technicals than most of the other forums.
    Precisely because we have very little patience for uninformed, antagonistic mambling.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    If you just want to play at trail parks, then you don't need to listen to mikesee, but if you want to go far into the hinterland it's very much worth listening to him.
    If you are going downhill on a rocky trail at 30mph and have a front tubeless failure the consequences are pretty grim.

    My buddy who owns a LBS won't work with any "ghetto" tubeless setups after 2 riders were killed trail riding in his area due to tubeless failures.

    So I would be just as concerned about this issue if you are a day rider on your local trails.
    Safe riding,

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  21. #46
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    No ghetto tubeless for me. I'll wait for a proper setup.
    The LPG

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If you are going downhill on a rocky trail at 30mph and have a front tubeless failure the consequences are pretty grim.

    My buddy who owns a LBS won't work with any "ghetto" tubeless setups after 2 riders were killed trail riding in his area due to tubeless failures.

    So I would be just as concerned about this issue if you are a day rider on your local trails.
    Vik, I know that this thread is not the place...but I would be very interested to hear of some of the mishaps that are credited to tubeless failures.

    Most interested into the how and why of that conclusion. A tall wide tire with a sudden loss of air at speed...can't be good though. Are all disastrous reports occurring with speed?

    One way to find out.

    Care to lead off with a thread on that topic...can't say that there has been one?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post

    Care to lead off with a thread on that topic...can't say that there has been one?
    I don't know much more than I have posted. I personally haven't had a tubeless failure, but I'm pretty picky about what rims/tires I use and how they are setup.

    My friend who owns the LBS is in a position like Mike C and Shiggy where he sees more product than us regular folks plus and is plugged into the industry and local riding community well. He's given me a few bits of advice over the years and everything he has told me has been 100%.

    I'm not an expert of tubeless tires/rims....the point I wanted to make was just that everyone should be concerned about their tubeless setups and safety - not just the expedition types.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If you are going downhill on a rocky trail at 30mph and have a front tubeless failure the consequences are pretty grim...
    I hadn't thought of that aspect.

    Mainly because I'm never likely to be going downhill at 30mph.

    Chicken, I know.
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  25. #50
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    Will the Dually be produced in a 36h variety?

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