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  1. #1
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    My Marge Lite/616 Fabrications Wheel Build

    I just got my wheels laced on my Marge Lite rims with 616 Fabrications Hubs build. I used Sapim CX-Ray spokes and alloy Nipples (for now) to see how they would turn out. If I can figure out how to post pictures, I will post some. Here is how they turned out:

    Front wheel - 1000 grams
    Rear Wheel 1240 grams

    I could have gone lighter with the XTR freehub body option they have - but I went with the Ultegra level option. I didn't think the weight were bad considering the rims are roughly 700 grams each. The 616 Fabrications hubs are pretty cool. It is pretty cool that they are a local company (for me). In fact I met John at the machine shop to get a rear axle from him right off the lathe. They are a cool group of guys, making some very cool hubs and bikes! In fact many of you might remember Nukeproof bikes from the 90's - John owned Nukeproof - cool that he is back making bikes and hubs again.

  2. #2
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    really interesting hubs!


    Fat | Six 1 Six Bicycle Fabrication

  3. #3
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    Nice. Is front hub front or rear disc spacing? Why Centerlock? Just keepin' with the Shimano theme?

  4. #4
    How much does it weigh?
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    Cool hubs, I'd buy them if they didn't use Centerlock and Shimano Freehub... both of those things makes me not want them on my bike.

    Rather my tank ass Hadley hubs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Nice. Is front hub front or rear disc spacing? Why Centerlock? Just keepin' with the Shimano theme?
    I think it helps reducing the weight...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    Cool hubs, I'd buy them if they didn't use Centerlock and Shimano Freehub... both of those things makes me not want them on my bike.

    Rather my tank ass Hadley hubs.
    How can you not like Center Lock? Have you ever tried it? It's so sweet. But yeah, Shimano freehubs really suck, I'll give you that.

    Still, those hubs look amazing.

  7. #7
    aka bOb
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    Very cool hubs, but why wouldn't they make the flange diameters on the front hub the same. I hate buying different length spokes for a build!!

  8. #8
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    Agree on the Centerlock and Shimano freehub being deal killers. Too bad- just imagine what they could do with some Hopes!

  9. #9
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    What's wrong with Center Lock?!

  10. #10
    Sup
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    the formula center lock rotors are really nice looking
    I don't like the look of the flange diameter
    everyone is a critic though

    good luck with your new wheels

    Sj
    I am slow therefore I am

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by careboy View Post
    Just keepin' with the Shimano theme?
    Shimano freehub, Centerlock...You know, Shimano!

    @Atom: Kinda hard to get excited about a brake rotor mounting standard (if you can call Centerlock a "standard"). I prefer the wider variety of choices available with ISO. Never tried Centerlock, but never had any trouble with bolt-ons either.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Very cool hubs, but why wouldn't they make the flange diameters on the front hub the same. I hate buying different length spokes for a build!!
    They may have made them different for that very reason.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Why Centerlock?
    You can run 6-bolt or CL on a CL hub.

    Can only run 6-b on a 6-b hub.

  14. #14
    Living the thug life.
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    Is it me or do the axles look really thin? More options equals better I say.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

    My blog.

  15. #15
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You can run 6-bolt or CL on a CL hub.

    Can only run 6-b on a 6-b hub.
    But those centerlock rotors wouldn't exist without the centerlock format.... Which brings us back to the question of, why centerlock?

  16. #16
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    Centerlock is a better design. Automatically concentric, stronger, less apt to loosen itself, and, if it does loosen, only one thread to potentially loosen itself instead of six. And, when that one thread loosens itself, you know it right away. Six bolt rotors can have a few bolts loose and go unnoticed, right up to the point that the mounting ears tear off the hub shell (a friend just did that to an American Classic hub).
    I don't own any, mostly because I already have so many six bolt rotors, hubs, and wheelsets laying around. I have installed a lot of them, I've always thought they were a good idea.

  17. #17
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    I prefer Centerlock - apart from the difficulty of removing it with an on-bike toolkit.

    Which rules it out for any bike you're going to go bush on - can't replace spokes in extremis.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  18. #18
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    Another Centerlock hater, sorry.

    Simply solving a problem that doesn't exist, at least that I see. If I had issues, or my riding pals did, or I heard of them even (on a regular basis) I'd think they were onto something. Sure, loose bolts now and then, but that's like, one guy, every couple years.

    Of course, this is coming from a guy that loves Dual Control levers mated to his Rapid Rise RD so don't pay me too much attention, just grousin' over here in the corner....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  19. #19
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I prefer Centerlock - apart from the difficulty of removing it with an on-bike toolkit.

    Which rules it out for any bike you're going to go bush on - can't replace spokes in extremis.
    Well, same goes for cassette side spokes too.

    Back in the olden days, I used to carry a Pamir, but it's long lost I bought a Stein, but it's nowhere near as hardy. I've never owned center locks, but is it safe to assume these "mini" tools will also work for removal?

    http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-029/index.html
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  20. #20
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    its a pity centrelock didnt take off a bit more...its *so* much less fiddle than 6 wee bolts....

    as for the cassette use a DT hub and the whole thing pulls off :-)~ no tools needed...

  21. #21
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    its a pity centrelock didnt take off a bit more...its *so* much less fiddle than 6 wee bolts....

    as for the cassette use a DT hub and the whole thing pulls off :-)~ no tools needed...
    If only DT made a 170, I'd buy it.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  22. #22
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    OP, can you post a pic of yours? I've heard they've changed slightly from the pic igonzo posted. I'm mostly wondering about the endcaps.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  23. #23
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    hmmm yeah, id forgotten the dt were 165mm or something?

    maybe they'll take pity on the fatbike market and do something now that 170 sems to becoming the de facto standard?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post

    - Automatically concentric,
    Is the mm or so of eccentricity possible with ISO really an issue? I don't recall ever seeing a setup that had issues due to the rotor not being perfectly centered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post

    - stronger,
    To what end? Aren't they also heavier? What does that strength actually do for performance, and could an ISO rotor not achieve the same strength by increasing material(weight) in the right places?


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post

    - less apt to loosen itself,
    I've never had one loosen on me. Only way I could see that happening is if A: the bolts weren't tightened enough to begin with. B: the rider swapped rotors more than once without reapplying loctite to the bolts.

    Only advantages I could see would really be the hub being lighter if you didn't want to run a disc brake on that wheel, and they're quicker to remove/install, with the right tools.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    If only DT made a 170, I'd buy it.
    Hope does now.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You can run 6-bolt or CL on a CL hub.

    Can only run 6-b on a 6-b hub.

    End of the debate.

    Also, even if shimano's freehub bodies are not the most easy to overhaul, they are widely available and cheap.

    I sent an email to 616 fab concerning the skewer system. Anybody have additional infos?

  27. #27
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    One thought on adapting CL to run a 6-bolt: avoid the Problem Solvers adapter. It wobbles. If you got it to turn true, you are a liar. Spend the extra $$ on a Shimano adapter.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  28. #28
    How much does it weigh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Hope does now.
    What!?!

    Link?

  29. #29
    giddy up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    What!?!

    Link?
    Yessir. Hope will be making 170mm hubs......they should be available within a month or two. QBP will be carrying them(which means that basically any bike shop can order them).

    B
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  30. #30
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey View Post
    Yessir. Hope will be making 170mm hubs......they should be available within a month or two. QBP will be carrying them(which means that basically any bike shop can order them).

    B
    A few minutes after I read MCS's thread, I called Hope and the conversation with a nice lady with a British accent went something like this:
    Me: Hi, I heard a rumor that you're coming out with a 170mm wide rear hub?
    Her: No, we make I believe a 150mm hub
    Me: Oh, OK.
    Her: Let me ask...Oh there is a 170 coming out in a month!
    Me: Cool! Is it going to use the same freehub as your other hubs?
    Her: It should, hang on...yeah, it should.
    Her: It's called the Mukluk.
    Me: Oh? So you guys make the hub for Salsa?
    Her: No, it's coming out in a month.
    Me: You do know that Salsa makes a snow bike called the Mukluk, and they even have hubs that may be called the Mukluk also.
    Her: They do? Really?
    Me/Her: Laughing.
    Me: Yes, really. Check out their site.
    Her: Well, thank you for that news. I better tell somebody!
    Me: Good luck ma'am and thanks for your help!

    She was a nice elder woman, so I'm not gonna harsh her. I once took a tour at the Cannondale factory in Pennsylvania, and when we were getting into our car in the parking lot, an elder woman was trying to stuff a new road bike into her car. That conversation:

    Us: Do you need help?
    Her: I just bought this bike and I can't get it into the car.
    Us (noticing both wheels were on and she was trying to stuff it into the trunk): Do you want to try taking off the front wheel first?
    Her: What are you talking about?
    Me: That lever on the front hub...it's a quick release. You can flip it and easily remove your wheel.
    Her: You can? I've been working here for 5+ years and nobody's ever told me that! I just put the stickers on the bikes!

    Last edited by Drevil; 02-02-2012 at 02:41 PM.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach View Post
    Is the mm or so of eccentricity possible with ISO really an issue? I don't recall ever seeing a setup that had issues due to the rotor not being perfectly centered.

    To what end? Aren't they also heavier? What does that strength actually do for performance, and could an ISO rotor not achieve the same strength by increasing material(weight) in the right places?

    I've never had one loosen on me. Only way I could see that happening is if A: the bolts weren't tightened enough to begin with. B: the rider swapped rotors more than once without reapplying loctite to the bolts.

    Only advantages I could see would really be the hub being lighter if you didn't want to run a disc brake on that wheel, and they're quicker to remove/install, with the right tools.
    Concentricity: probably not much of a deal in most cases. Just a benefit of the design.

    Weight: The rotors are heavier, but the hub shell can lose material because the flanges don't have to be as high (since the ISO rotor mount is gone). An XT Centerlock rear hub/rotor combo weighs around 70 grams less than an XT six bolt rear hub/rotor combo.

    Rotor bolts: I have had them loosen, and I tighten mine with a torque wrench in a cross pattern. Not a regular occurrence, but it happens.

    As I said, I don't own any, but I like the design. Not trying to convert anybody, but you did ask, "Why Centerlock", so I gave some reasons.

  32. #32
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    Is Hope making a 135mm front hub to go with it?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Well, same goes for cassette side spokes too.

    Back in the olden days, I used to carry a Pamir, but it's long lost I bought a Stein, but it's nowhere near as hardy. I've never owned center locks, but is it safe to assume these "mini" tools will also work for removal?

    http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-029/index.html
    I had a pamir in my tool box with a bunch of vintage parts. Some little thieves liberated it one day, I assume looking for something of value and upon opening it and finding a bunch of old tools, cantilever pads and brakes, and 1110bcd chainrings probably dumped it in a garbage can somewhere. It was a great tool and i even used it occasionally when my poorly maintained bike gave up on a trail. Great tool! That and the Delta (now DT Swiss) spokey tool were great additions to any 1980-90's mountain biker. Still have my spokey and use it on all my wheel builds.
    Try this: HTFU

  34. #34
    This place needs an enema
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    You talked to Gwen. Charming, isn't she?

    She worked for them waaaaaay back when, left for a number of years, and has only been back for a few weeks. So she kinda gets a hall pass on this...

  35. #35
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    Yeah, I think Gwen was a little confused.

    We helped Hope with the specifications for the hub to fit our Mukluk frames, so maybe that was the issue. I am also currently riding the first set out, and production sets will be on display at Frostbike.

    They are the same specs (except for flange width/diameter) as our Salsa Mukluk hubs, and are positioned higher-end than our two offerings.

    Enjoy.
    Steel is Real: www.advocatecycles.com
    Tires for real rides: www.terrenetires.com

  36. #36
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Yep ordered a silver one from Hope USA when I spoke with them yesterday about another hubset I needed. I'm now, in line.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  37. #37
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon View Post
    Yeah, I think Gwen was a little confused.

    We helped Hope with the specifications for the hub to fit our Mukluk frames, so maybe that was the issue. I am also currently riding the first set out, and production sets will be on display at Frostbike.

    They are the same specs (except for flange width/diameter) as our Salsa Mukluk hubs, and are positioned higher-end than our two offerings.

    Enjoy.
    Ha! So she was right and didn't even know it

    I wonder how it'll compare to the Hadley I have down in the basement. Lighter? Pawl-ier? Can't wait to check 'em out.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  38. #38
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    So, yeah. There is a lot of new dealers but who really have the hubs in stock ???

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by igonzo128 View Post
    So, yeah. There is a lot of new dealers but who really have the hubs in stock ???
    I am. Several sets of red or silver, XTR or Ultegra, on the shelf right now.

    99% sure The Path in Orange County is too.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I am. Several sets of red or silver, XTR or Ultegra, on the shelf right now.

    99% sure The Path in Orange County is too.
    Do you sell online? I live in Canada and their is not dealer here.

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