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  1. #201
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    Interesting to hear about Nashbar. It makes sense considering their offerings in other areas (29er, 650b, fixie, etc.) It's good to have competition and broaden the range of available products to fit all price points.

  2. #202
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    Dunno where BDs regular bikes are assembled, but the fatbikes are assembled at Ideal China, which is a very modern, top notch bike factory. They make/have made bikes for pretty much any major brand in the business. The factory is partly owned by Fuji bikes and make pretty much all the Fuji models.
    They build a lot of our mid end MTBs as well as hybrids and entry/mid road bikes. Our higher end bikes are assembled at the Axman factory in Taiwan (Axman builds the Surly and Salsa bikes as well). The reason why we build the high end models in Taiwan is that it turns out less expensive, since most of the high end parts are made in Taiwan, saving shipping cost to mainland China. I would have no problems having Ideal assemble our top of the line models, though, including the new 13.8lb XX1 equipped 650b model.
    In fact, we have had more quality issues with assembly quality and frame quality on the bikes coming out of the high end Axman factory than has been the case with frames and assembly out of Ideal. We have QA agents in both places.
    Since Ideal basically repainted and rebadged (as well as some spec change) our bikes and sold to BD, we probably should be ticked off, but having a US based company use our bikes boosts our image over here (Norway).
    A while back, we let our other fatbike supplier essentially rebadge one of our Mk2 prototypes to use as the Norco Bigfoot prototype that they showed this summer.
    They changed some stuff for production, but it has a lot in common with our Mk2 Mammut/BigBob.
    We have allowed Ideal to use our base model Mk3 spec available to other companies, as long as they don't sell to European brands, or brands shipping to Europe. However, our upcoming 25lb (or less) $2400ish bike/spec is off limits. Too much time/money put into developing custom stuff and spec solutions for that one.
    Espen Wethe
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    Pretty sure Mongoose will be making some changes

    this pic got leaked a few weeks back and few noticed. This is a 20"er. I'll bet they're hard at work on the 26er too

    20" 7spds, disc brakes' look for it in January
    Lets get the kids out too and it wont break the bank
    nice thread guys...
    Attachment 833659
    ...
    taken from this thread
    ...

  4. #204
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    If these bikes sold sold fast and are obviously your design why dont you ship to other parts of the world? Its pretty clear theyd sell. Id be pretty pissed if someone took my product and made money off it . No hate or anything honest question.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhmeathead View Post
    If these bikes sold sold fast and are obviously your design why dont you ship to other parts of the world? Its pretty clear theyd sell. Id be pretty pissed if someone took my product and made money off it . No hate or anything honest question.
    Good questions. On the copy part: it seems that the assembly factory is the one to blame, but as mentioned, for that specific model, and the small number of bikes, it is not a big deal, actually got us some valuable PR over here.
    We are not set up for export, unfortunately. The brands Diamant and Nakamura are owned by the biggest sporting goods company in Norway, and the bikes (annual production of around 100,000 bikes (120 different models)) are sold through our approx. 300 franchise stores, Intersport and G-Sport, and we can only sell to our own stores.
    With the new fatbikes, we are seeing some interest from abroad, and some customers from nearby countries like Sweden and Germany make the trip to buy bikes.
    We recently received our Mk2 bikes, and the 800 bikes sold out pretty much right away. Not bad in a country of not much more than 4 million.
    Last edited by Espen W; 09-22-2013 at 05:49 AM.
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    On the copy part: it seems that the assembly factory is the one to blame, but as mentioned, for that specific model, and the small number of bikes, it is not a big deal, actually got us some valuable PR over here.
    It's nice to read that bikes direct didn't just steal your design. Wouldn't want that implied every time I ride. I'm also, glad you received some valuable PR for the Norwegian brand.

    So, I guess, it was a win-win situation for both.

    Thanks for a stunning design.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Good questions. On the copy part: it seems that the assembly factory is the one to blame, but as mentioned, for that specific model, and the small number of bikes, it is not a big deal, actually got us some valuable PR over here.
    First, Espen thanks for your input to this thread (and others). I've learned something about the production side of bikes.

    It certainly seems to me like your design is being ripped off. The factory wouldn't make those frames if they didn't have a buyer so in that sense BikesDirect is at least partly to blame. But, in another post you said you have QC agents at the factory - is it possible that these bikes (frames) are ones that did not pass your QC controls? That seems more like BD / Bike Island's business model.

    I don't know how valuable the PR is if you're not in a position to take advantage of it by selling bikes here. If I were you, I'd be looking for a big US distributor/retailer. One order from a place like Performance could double your annual sales.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_guy View Post
    First, Espen thanks for your input to this thread (and others). I've learned something about the production side of bikes.

    It certainly seems to me like your design is being ripped off. The factory wouldn't make those frames if they didn't have a buyer so in that sense BikesDirect is at least partly to blame. But, in another post you said you have QC agents at the factory - is it possible that these bikes (frames) are ones that did not pass your QC controls? That seems more like BD / Bike Island's business model.

    I don't know how valuable the PR is if you're not in a position to take advantage of it by selling bikes here. If I were you, I'd be looking for a big US distributor/retailer. One order from a place like Performance could double your annual sales.
    I'm not going to get too in to this. I just love a good forum. Any one can say what ever they want. Even if the designer himself tells everyone he received valuable PR. Some one else will imply he didn't'

    Too funny. :-)

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo-Rider View Post
    I'm not going to get too in to this. I just love a good forum. Any one can say what ever they want. Even if the designer himself tells everyone he received valuable PR. Some one else will imply he didn't'

    Too funny. :-)
    Guess I misunderstood what Espen meant by "here" in his statement. Apologies for my US-centric assumption.

  10. #210
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    Yup, we received good PR here in Norway. Over here, it is often assumed that all MTB innovation happens in the US, so this has actually suprised quite a few folks and generated quite a bit of attention for our bikes. We see extensive copying done by our Norwegian competitors, but first time by a US based company, so that was actually pretty fun.

    Of course, having an established brand like Norco use much of our spec (we allowed our common supplier to do that) is even better PR.

    We'll see what the future brings in terms of distribution abroad. Fatbikes definitely have changed quite a few things.
    Espen Wethe
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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Over here, it is often assumed that all MTB innovation happens in the US, so this has actually suprised quite a few folks and generated quite a bit of attention for our bikes.
    Help me out here. What exactly is "innovative" about this bike?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    Help me out here. What exactly is "innovative" about this bike?
    Mk2 isn't very innovative technology wise, that is why we don't have any big issues with Ideal/BD using that frame/fork/most of the spec, even though our Mk1/Mk2 bikes were among the first to use non-Surly parts: Weinmann rims, Samox cranks, Vee-Rubber tires, etc. We did develop the various rims with Weinmann, they are now being used by Norco, Felt, Kona, and a bunch of others.

    Ours was the first affordable (non mailorder) fatbike (over here in Europe), with customers being able to purchase it at less than half the price of a standard Pugsley.
    As a result, the fatbike market here exploded, going from 50 bikes a year to us selling over 1000pcs already, in a population of 4 million. Basically sold out now, two weeks after the Mk2 bikes arrived. As a result, a bunch of other Norwegian brands have jumped on the bandwagon, with some being basically carbon copies of our models.

    Techwise, the upcoming Mk3 is a lot more interesting:

    New 1290g alloy frame (size 17'') even though production will likely see the 190mm version (approx 1490g)
    Custom 650g alloy fork (fully CEN approved) with space for 5'' on 103mm rims
    Custom PF30 crankset with easily adjustable chainline for clearing big tires.
    Custom sub 350g 190mm rear hub
    Custom alloy 103mm rims @ 850g
    Custom 19g grips that insulate extremely well, so perfect for winter use.
    New sub 220g 135mm front hub
    In addition, we designed the new Vee Rubber Snowshoe 4.7'' studable (300 studs) tire with Vee Tire.

    Weight is in the 25lb range on 103mm rims front and rear and space for Bud/Lou and price will be sub $2400. Might drop down to 23lbs if we can get the 80mm version of Stan's rim in time for production.
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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie View Post
    I received this confirmation email this morning:


    "Hi, Thank you for pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike.

    These bikes are being ordered at a rate that has shocked us; and they are sure to sell out before they land. We feel you will be extremely happy with this bike and look forward to your direct feedback on it. Please send your comments to Chris at bd4salesteam@aol.com or post on mtbr.com.

    Your new Fat Bike is built by the same factory that builds bikes for Kestrel, Fuji, Specialized, and dozens of other quality brands [including Motobecane]. Even though the price we are selling the FB4 models at is rather low; we feel certain you will find itís construction is equal in quality to that of any $2000 Fat Bike.

    Bikesdirect has not decided how broad to go in the Fat Bike market. We are considering bikes down to $399 and bikes up to $2500 Ti versions. Your purchase and input will be valuable in our decision making process. "


    Thanks again


    Be Safe and Have Fun
    Order Processing Team at Bikes Direct
    You must have gotten the special treatment. I ordered 2 of these bikes and I just got a generic thank you and shipment information email. They didn't elaborate at all about fat bikes.

  14. #214
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    For reference, here is the info I got after my orders:
    Hi, Thank you for pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike.

    These bikes are being ordered at a rate that has shocked us; and they are sure to sell out before they land. We feel you will be extremely happy with this bike and look forward to your direct feedback on it. Please send your comments to Chris at bd4salesteam@aol.com or post on mtbr.com.

    Your new Fat Bike is built by the same factory that builds bikes for Kestrel, Fuji, Specialized, and dozens of other quality brands [including Motobecane]. Even though the price we are selling the FB4 models at is rather low; we feel certain you will find itís construction is equal in quality to that of any $2000 Fat Bike.

    Bikesdirect has not decided how broad to go in the Fat Bike market. We are considering bikes down to $399 and bikes up to $2500 Ti versions. Your purchase and input will be valuable in our decision making process.


    Thanks again

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    ...

    Techwise, the upcoming Mk3 is a lot more interesting:

    New 1290g alloy frame (size 17'') even though production will likely see the 190mm version (approx 1490g)
    Custom 650g alloy fork (fully CEN approved) with space for 5'' on 103mm rims
    Custom PF30 crankset with easily adjustable chainline for clearing big tires.
    Custom sub 350g 190mm rear hub
    Custom alloy 103mm rims @ 850g
    Custom 19g grips that insulate extremely well, so perfect for winter use.
    New sub 220g 135mm front hub
    In addition, we designed the new Vee Rubber Snowshoe 4.7'' studable (300 studs) tire with Vee Tire.

    Weight is in the 25lb range on 103mm rims front and rear and space for Bud/Lou and price will be sub $2400. Might drop down to 23lbs if we can get the 80mm version of Stan's rim in time for production.
    Espen:

    Please think about finding a way to get these in the hands of MTBR readers worldwide. I volunteer to be the first to get pictures of a Diamant MK3 being ridden on the North Shore and around Whistler - that could get you some good street cred over there Of course, I'd need to find a rider with skills to be in the pictures - shouldn't be too hard around here.

    I've wondered if the best way to get both weight and price down together was to integrate a custom lightweight frame, fork, crankset, hubs and tubeless rims. Kudos to Diamant/Nakamura for trying.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    For reference, here is the info I got after my orders:
    That is funny that there is a difference in the order confirmation email. I went back through and checked both my orders and neither have this information. But I do have a tracking number that is good on October 8th so that is what matters.

  17. #217
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    Just ordered a 19" pro (the other two models were sold out in that size). No tracking number yet, but it still says Oct 8-15 shipping.


    Quote Originally Posted by Venturewest View Post
    That is funny that there is a difference in the order confirmation email. I went back through and checked both my orders and neither have this information. But I do have a tracking number that is good on October 8th so that is what matters.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    $399 fat bike? Wow.
    Where is this one?!? the cheapest i see is $699.
    I wonder if I could mount a Rohloff on 0ne of these... Would that count as situational irony? Probably just counts as stupidity.
    Boy, are my parents gonna be pissed.

  19. #219
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    There is not one available for $399 right now. See my previous post with the BD email information. It is a price point they are considering if they like the way the 3 current models sell.

    Based on the near sellout after only one week, I suspect more of the existing models and the other price points they mention are very likely to happen.

    Quite a lot still rests on how well the actual bikes are received/reviewed. Will be interesting to see what happens.

  20. #220
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    I would have already ordered on of these if they had them in the 21 inch frame. I want a fat bike. I wander if the largre size is coming or should i just order on the the new specialized fatboys?

  21. #221
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    Nothing but smalls left in any of the models... Curse you "sleep on it" thought!
    Boy, are my parents gonna be pissed.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    There is not one available for $399 right now. See my previous post with the BD email information. It is a price point they are considering if they like the way the 3 current models sell.

    Based on the near sellout after only one week, I suspect more of the existing models and the other price points they mention are very likely to happen.

    Quite a lot still rests on how well the actual bikes are received/reviewed. Will be interesting to see what happens.
    Thanks Chader. I missed that nuance as I was skimming along late at night. I think you are right, and we may see these other price points. Perhaps they will make a Ti version in there as well. They offer their 29er in Ti, so it's not beyond possibility. I would have a hard time sleeping on that one! Anyone else interested? (They may be watching )
    Boy, are my parents gonna be pissed.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Chaos View Post
    Nothing but smalls left in any of the models... Curse you "sleep on it" thought!
    YES! Professor Chaos is in the house!!!

    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  24. #224
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    How bad would it be for someone 5'10"ish to ride the small? My opportunity to finally purchase a new bike is with in the next 2 weeks and who knows when they will get the larger sizes back in. Measured my current bike yesterday and it is 16.5. How much of a difference does 1.5" make?

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by arock View Post
    How bad would it be for someone 5'10"ish to ride the small? My opportunity to finally purchase a new bike is with in the next 2 weeks and who knows when they will get the larger sizes back in. Measured my current bike yesterday and it is 16.5. How much of a difference does 1.5" make?
    Can't see it. 5'10 should be medium or maybe even large. I ride with two people that are 5'10... One rides 17.5 and the other 19. DO NOT make the mistake of buying a bike that doesn't fit. Trust me...there will be plenty if opportunities to get a deal on a fat bike , and they will likely get even cheaper.
    1.5 inches may not sound like a lot, but the entire bike will be smaller. Just offering my opinion, but wait...
    - MOOTS Mooto X
    - Salsa Fargo
    - Niner RLT9

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Chaos View Post
    Thanks Chader. I missed that nuance as I was skimming along late at night. I think you are right, and we may see these other price points. Perhaps they will make a Ti version in there as well. They offer their 29er in Ti, so it's not beyond possibility. I would have a hard time sleeping on that one! Anyone else interested? (They may be watching )
    FWIW, I'm not sure if a Ti offset frame would work well. One of the big advantages of Ti is its compliance, and I think that having non-symmetrical chain/seatstays would make for an oddly noodly ride. Not hardly an expert, however, so YMMV.
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  27. #227
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    15'' is rideable for you.
    We specified a fairly long TT so that riders could pic a frame with good standover clearance.
    They have an effective TT length of 588mm (23.15'') in that size.
    Reach is 594.1mm.
    Dunno if they use a 400mm post as we did. We used 80mm stem length for the 15'', not sure of BD did the same. Ask them, I'm sure they have all the info. Maybe.
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  28. #228
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    Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but decided against it, no deal is good if the bike dosen't fit.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    Can't see it. 5'10 should be medium or maybe even large. I ride with two people that are 5'10... One rides 17.5 and the other 19. DO NOT make the mistake of buying a bike that doesn't fit. Trust me...there will be plenty if opportunities to get a deal on a fat bike , and they will likely get even cheaper.
    1.5 inches may not sound like a lot, but the entire bike will be smaller. Just offering my opinion, but wait...
    Disregard frame size numbers. Measure the effective top tube length of what you are riding and go from there.
    The wheel is a extension of the foot

  30. #230
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    Assuming BD is using the same numbers as Diamant...
    Here is the info EspenW posted earlier.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-5.html#post10684843

  31. #231
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    Thanks for the replies. Looks like the top tube length difference is only a little over 1/2" between the small and medium frames. Ill have to measure my current bike this evening and see how it compares. If they are close it sounds like I may possibly just need to get a longer seat post and the small may work.

  32. #232
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    30mm difference from S to L. 588mm on S and 618mm on the L.
    I know ya'll know how to translate to British units if required
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  33. #233
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    Fellas: just noticed that I made a typo earlier in the thread:
    Our Mk2 Diamant/Nakamura bikes (and by default the Motobecanes) have 21.5mm offset, not 17.5 as I posted. It was our Mk1 bikes that had 17.5mm

    This provides excellent clearance. We have mounted Surly Lou on the 80mm rear rim w/o rubbing, but heavier riders will have some rubbing, but that tire is a monster, even on an 80mm rim. This is where our new 4.7'' Vee Snowshoe comes in.

    Also:
    Due to production tolerances, on some bikes, we have seen slight front caliper to spoke contact during cornering. This is easily solved by placing thin washers (typically 0.8mm) between the hub and rotor.
    This was the case on our models that use Tektro HDC-300 brakes.
    It also seems that Tektro used an aggressive thread locking compound on the rotor and caliper fixing bolts. 20-30 seconds with a heat gun before unscrewing the bolts solves that issue.
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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by arock View Post
    Thanks for the replies. Looks like the top tube length difference is only a little over 1/2" between the small and medium frames. Ill have to measure my current bike this evening and see how it compares. If they are close it sounds like I may possibly just need to get a longer seat post and the small may work.
    I bought the 15 inch, mostly for my kids who are 13 and 10, average heights. I was thinking the 13 year old will fit perfect on it (he's about 5-5), and hoping my 10 yo can handle it (4-11), if not this year, then next year. I also want to be able to ride it when my (Non-fat) friends want to go for a fat bike ride. I'm 5-10 and have an 18 inch Pugsley that I will lend out to my riding buddies, as they are taller than me.

    Yes, it's all about the reach. Check out Drevil's bike. That has what looks like a 13 inch seat tube.

  35. #235
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    Just finished measuring my current bike. Top tube measured in at about 23.25". Think I'm gonna go ahead and order the small on Friday when I get paid. If it turns out to be too small I'm sure I'll probably be able to resell it for close to what it will cost me. Thanks for all the help.

  36. #236
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    Aside from Bigbob and Mammut, which fatbike would you say this bike's geometry is closet to? Is this more of a trail geometry? Or more of a beach cruiser geometry?

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooSteep View Post
    Espen:

    Please think about finding a way to get these in the hands of MTBR readers worldwide. I volunteer to be the first to get pictures of a Diamant MK3 being ridden on the North Shore and around Whistler - that could get you some good street cred over there Of course, I'd need to find a rider with skills to be in the pictures - shouldn't be too hard around here.

    I've wondered if the best way to get both weight and price down together was to integrate a custom lightweight frame, fork, crankset, hubs and tubeless rims. Kudos to Diamant/Nakamura for trying.
    Seriously! That thT bike over here! You'd destroy qbp's offerings

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Doom View Post
    Disregard frame size numbers. Measure the effective top tube length of what you are riding and go from there.
    As long as you don't run out of seat tube, I have this problem and it kinda sucks.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by utabintarbo View Post
    FWIW, I'm not sure if a Ti offset frame would work well. One of the big advantages of Ti is its compliance, and I think that having non-symmetrical chain/seatstays would make for an oddly noodly ride. Not hardly an expert, however, so YMMV.
    point taken, and a good one at that. I hadn't thought of that, but I have been looking at some of the belt drive & IGH combos, and Gates requires frames be submitted for stiffness testing in order to qualify for a Rohloff/Gates configurations and there are several Ti frames that make it.

    http://www.g-boxx.com/pdf/Frame-Manu...Overview-1.pdf

    didn't notice a BD frame on there though. off topic? of course! (embrace the chaos- it could probably use a hug)
    Boy, are my parents gonna be pissed.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by utabintarbo View Post
    FWIW, I'm not sure if a Ti offset frame would work well. One of the big advantages of Ti is its compliance, and I think that having non-symmetrical chain/seatstays would make for an oddly noodly ride. Not hardly an expert, however, so YMMV.
    907 made ti offsets, they worked fine.
    Latitude 61

  41. #241
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    I have wanted a fat bike for years, saving here and there but never came close to getting the moonlander I wanted. Then I saw this option, a third the price. I quickily put an older bike on Craigslist and a few other things....my tracking number says October 15 as a ship date. I went with the mid level build for two reasons, flat black is my style and I'm not a huge fan of shimano acera (have that on my Diamond back 29er). I'm looking forward to joining the fat bike community.

    Thank you Espen for all the insight.

  42. #242
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    Re: Moto / bikes direct fatbikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by manfromwillow View Post
    I have wanted a fat bike for years, I went with the mid level build for two reasons, flat black is my style and I'm not a huge fan of shimano acera (have that on my Diamond back 29er). I'm looking forward to joining the fat bike community.
    Start doing smile exercises now while you wait... you'll be doing a lot of it when you get out on your new fat bike
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by arock View Post
    Just finished measuring my current bike. Top tube measured in at about 23.25". Think I'm gonna go ahead and order the small on Friday when I get paid. If it turns out to be too small I'm sure I'll probably be able to resell it for close to what it will cost me. Thanks for all the help.
    If it's like most bikes i'd say...a medium would be closer.
    But back in the day...a lot of mediums had shorter top tubes than more up-to-date bikes.
    So if you can be happy with a longer stem...and you don't forsee any foot/toe interference from the front wheel...you'll be good to go one way or the other.
    ...Just my .02.

    (I know...MTB-itis bites hard. LOL
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  44. #244
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    JusHi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike FB4

    Update on your order - these incredibly fun Fat Bikes are nearly pre-sold out! Wow! Due to production timing and availibility, the factory had to change the tire spec from what was originally listed to the V-Rubber Wire Bead 72TPI. The 72TPI was the tire that was available at production time and is as pictured. If this is a deal breaker for you, PLEASE LET US KNOW RIGHT AWAY AND WE CAN REFUND YOU IN FULL.

    Thanks again for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike FB4.

    Best regards,

    The Friendly Folks at Bikesdirect.com got this in an email from bikes direct:

  45. #245
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    Hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by manfromwillow View Post
    JusHi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike FB4

    Update on your order - these incredibly fun Fat Bikes are nearly pre-sold out! Wow! Due to production timing and availibility, the factory had to change the tire spec from what was originally listed to the V-Rubber Wire Bead 72TPI. The 72TPI was the tire that was available at production time and is as pictured. If this is a deal breaker for you, PLEASE LET US KNOW RIGHT AWAY AND WE CAN REFUND YOU IN FULL.

    Thanks again for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike FB4.

    Best regards,

    The Friendly Folks at Bikesdirect.com got this in an email from bikes direct:
    Hmm, which model did you get? I wonder if they're doing this across all three. That would be really unfortunate as the lighter tire was one of the bigger differences. I haven't gotten an email yet (Pro 19")

    EDIT: Damn, just got the same email. They should offer a partial refund for the difference.

  46. #246
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    I ordered the black one, mid level size large

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    Re: Moto / bikes direct fatbikes!

    Yep, I got the same email on the black large.

    I wonder now if trying to move from black to green and save $200 due to all using same tire.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

  48. #248
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    I ordered a 15" Comp (green), and got the same email. This is an upgrade for me as they had previously spec'd the Comps with the 27 TPI tires...I guess it pays to be a cheap a$$ from time to time!

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomsample View Post
    EDIT: Damn, just got the same email. They should offer a partial refund for the difference.
    I dunno... you guys are still getting a killer price. Sell them online or local (or keep for backup) and buy a used set or new set of some lighter tires. Lots to choose from now.

    But I do see where you are coming from... kind of "bait and switch"-like... but sounds like it was out of their control.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  50. #250
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    I ordered the elite as well. However, I'm sure my bike will deliver the fun factor I was hoping.

    I looked over the specs between the comp vs the elite and I feel I'm still getting a lot for not too much more money.

    I'm going to feel like a kid opening a cracker jack box. I know there is something good inside.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    I dunno... you guys are still getting a killer price. Sell them online or local (or keep for backup) and buy a used set or new set of some lighter tires. Lots to choose from now.

    But I do see where you are coming from... kind of "bait and switch"-like... but sounds like it was out of their control.

    True enough, which is why I'm not going to cancel. It still kind of sucks to change the specs after the money has changed hands though.

  52. #252
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    Well if anyone would like to cancel theirs I will gladly pick it up. They completely sold out of all sizes on the green model. Not that I want a bright a$$ green bike but that was the one that was within my budget.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by arock View Post
    Well if anyone would like to cancel theirs I will gladly pick it up. They completely sold out of all sizes on the green model. Not that I want a bright a$$ green bike but that was the one that was within my budget.
    That's unlikely, as the green one actually got upgraded from the given spec.

  54. #254
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    Here was my reply to them:

    1) I still want to keep my order for the two Pro models in medium. I still like the bikes as a whole despite this substitution.

    2) However, I feel that some price adjustment is appropriate because this change occurred after the sale based on the original specifications.

    This change is a significant downgrade by switching from the Folding Bead to a Wire Bead that results in an increase of 1.5 lbs in total bike weight. This is a huge difference and one of the reasons I opted to choose the higher priced Pro model over the Elite model.

    I ordered the bike and made payment based on the higher spec tire and I don't think it is fair to downgrade this afterwards while still keeping the original price.

    I think you should reduce the selling price based on the difference in the price between the tires and refund that difference to those of us who have already ordered.

    The original price difference between the Pro ($995.95) and the Elite ($895.95) was $100. I realize the tires as well as other components made up this overall difference.

    I don't know the exact MSRP for the two tires, but I think a $25-$50 adjustment would be appropriate for each bike I have ordered. Please let me know what price adjustment can be made.

  55. #255
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    I'd say if you are unhappy , take the refund. Really doubt they would reimburse you over something they could re- sell immediately .
    Sounds A little fishy though

  56. #256
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    Claimed weight for the 72tpi kevlar bead is 1500g, but we weigh most of them in at right around 1470g, (with 120tpi folding at around 1420g.) However, claimed weight for 72tpi steel bead is 1930g, a whopping 430g per tire, 860g (1.9lb) difference on the bike vs. folding bead.
    Difference in FOB price (what the bike factory/brand pays for stuff) is only 12% more for the folding bead version of the 72tpi, making it fairly logical for a product manager to pick the folding version....

    ie. they are probably telling the truth about availability, and didn't pull a stunt to save a minimal amount of dollars per bike.

    Fat tire availability is the big crux these days. The reason why Specialized won't be able to deliver Fatboy until December is that Kenda has been delayed with the production of Ground Control 4.6.
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  57. #257
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    As I stated, I still want the bike and think it's a fine deal in general. The next best option is more expensive than I want spend and that is the reason I chose the BD Pro level bike in the first place.

    Just because they can sell it to someone else who is less informed or late to the party, is no reason I should pay the same amount. They are delivering less than what they promised at the time I made my payment.

    They have given only two options:
    1) Keep the deal and price paid despite the downgrade.
    2) Cancel the deal all together for a full refund.

    I am offering a third option that I feel is appropriate.
    3) Discount the bike price by the price difference in the tires. Pretty simple really.

    The whole "bait and switch" feel could put other customers off of pre-orders.

    If this is acceptable, what prevents more changes to our current orders or orders on other bikes in the future? Just playing devil's advocate a bit.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    As I stated, I still want the bike and think it's a fine deal in general. The next best option is more expensive than I want spend and that is the reason I chose the BD Pro level bike in the first place.

    Just because they can sell it to someone else who is less informed or late to the party, is no reason I should pay the same amount. They are delivering less than what they promised at the time I made my payment.

    They have given only two options:
    1) Keep the deal and price paid despite the downgrade.
    2) Cancel the deal all together for a full refund.

    I am offering a third option that I feel is appropriate.
    3) Discount the bike price by the price difference in the tires. Pretty simple really.

    The whole "bait and switch" feel could put other customers off of pre-orders.

    If this is acceptable, what prevents more changes to our current orders or orders on other bikes in the future? Just playing devil's advocate a bit.
    Couldn't agree more. Even if I would have purchased the bike anyway, having it downgraded after purchase feels like being cheated. It's not really economically rational of me to feel that way, but I'm sure I'm not alone. Especially given the small volume of this sale, they would gain more in brand reputation than they would lose in dollars by offering a small discount for the downgraded bikes.

  59. #259
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    Espen thanks for all your input
    When you state delay in production, do you mean the tire is not ready for "prime time" or not enough units?

  60. #260
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    I think this is a pretty cool bike at a great price and I would be pissed at the tire change at the last minute. Fat tires are expensive and to upgrade to a lighter tire is going to be pricey. That being said I believe and I hope I'm wrong but this is the first of many problems we will hear about.

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjedoaks View Post
    Espen thanks for all your input
    When you state delay in production, do you mean the tire is not ready for "prime time" or not enough units?
    Not sure what caused the delay, could be problems with prototypes, or more likely production issues. This is the first fatbike tire for Kenda, and it is possible that some unforeseen problems showed up. It is interesting that the sample bikes even at Interbike were sporting Bud/Lou.
    Compare that to Vee Rubber: We started the work on the new 4.7 Vee Rubber Snowshoe at the time of the Taipei show in March, and they had a finished prototype (missing the stud pockets, though) at Interbike.
    Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.
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  62. #262
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    For the "Fat Curious" as another reader said, not a bad way to go. Being someone who manages a bicycle shop, I always hate to see these "half off comparable" deals. You are getting what you pay for and nothing else. The other nothings you get are no service, no professional build, no guarantee of replacement parts, no outside rep for warranty issues, no money staying in your community. Many of my customers want to ride more but simply don't have the money for the bikes I carry. I tell them that I'd rather make the money tuning up their box store/internet bike and maintaining it over the years than try to compete on price. These bikes would be a great way to get more people on fatbikes. Additionally, many of these customers will buy high end bikes in the future when they figure out how different the one that costs twice as much really is. So buy it if you just want a fatbike to get out and ride, but find an IBD to help you out with service and parts.

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Not sure what caused the delay, coud be problems with prototypes, or more likely production issues. This is the first fatbike tire for Kenda, and it is possible that some unforeseen problems showed up. It is interesting that the sample bikes even at Interbike were sporting Bud/Lou.
    Compare that to Vee Rubber: We started the work on the new 4.7 Vee Rubber Snowshoe at the time of the Taipei show in March, and they had a finished prototype (missing the stud pockets, though) at Interbike.
    Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.
    So looking forward to the specs on the Snowshoe and I sure hope to see them soon. The problem with the Fat bike parts market has at least before has been that after the initial supply things were no longer available till the following year. So in all reality it was jump on the first parts to come out and hope it was the best or get screwed and out of luck. Hopefully this year things will play out a little better and we can at least see some specs and get to make an informed decision. Of course that doesn't mean the stuff will actually come in so in the end we could be out of luck anyways. I just hate this last minute short supply thing.

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.
    I get what you're saying, but I have to say that the 26x4 Devsit8er is quite possibly the worst tire I have ever tried in my 29 years of cycling. It gave me new respect for what Surly/Innova have done with their tires. I'd rather pay $120-150 for a tire that handles well than $30 for a tire that doesn't.

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    I get what you're saying, but I have to say that the 26x4 Devsit8er is quite possibly the worst tire I have ever tried in my 29 years of cycling. It gave me new respect for what Surly/Innova have done with their tires. I'd rather pay $120-150 for a tire that handles well than $30 for a tire that doesn't.
    They have admitted that their very first entries basically sucked, but they have come a long way since that, with the 1370g versions of the Mission and Vee-8, the Speedster, 4.7 Snowshoe, 4.25 1300g Sterling and the (On-One) Floater.
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  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    Here was my reply to them:
    I understand, and cant blame you for trying, but I cant think of any teason that they would give you a partial refund when they are offering to give you a full refund. They know, as well as you do, that they can resell them at full price with the cheaper tires.
    You are still getting a good deal and will likely upgrade several items in the near future.
    You could always take the tires off and ebay them before use, then use that cash towards whatever tires you want
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  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommillermn View Post
    For the "Fat Curious" as another reader said, not a bad way to go. Being someone who manages a bicycle shop, I always hate to see these "half off comparable" deals. You are getting what you pay for and nothing else. The other nothings you get are no service, no professional build, no guarantee of replacement parts, no outside rep for warranty issues, no money staying in your community. Many of my customers want to ride more but simply don't have the money for the bikes I carry. I tell them that I'd rather make the money tuning up their box store/internet bike and maintaining it over the years than try to compete on price. These bikes would be a great way to get more people on fatbikes. Additionally, many of these customers will buy high end bikes in the future when they figure out how different the one that costs twice as much really is. So buy it if you just want a fatbike to get out and ride, but find an IBD to help you out with service and parts.
    Why do you question their warranty clause and replacement parts? I have dealt with BD on multiple warranty issues and they have always provided excellent service. They are among the best e-commerce experiences I've had. no in person service but that's obvious for anyone going in

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    I get what you're saying, but I have to say that the 26x4 Devsit8er is quite possibly the worst tire I have ever tried in my 29 years of cycling. It gave me new respect for what Surly/Innova have done with their tires. I'd rather pay $120-150 for a tire that handles well than $30 for a tire that doesn't.
    that's probably not a fair comparison. Take for instance, the tire that Vee Tires have made for On-One, the Floater, is by all accounts an excellent tire. I look forward to their snowshoe and other new tires.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    They have admitted that their very first entries basically sucked, but they have come a long way since that, with the 1370g versions of the Mission and Vee-8, the Speedster, 4.7 Snowshoe, 4.25 1300g Sterling and the (On-One) Floater.
    Any idea what the MSRP on the Vee Snowshoe will be?

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie View Post
    Any idea what the MSRP on the Vee Snowshoe will be?
    Tis the magic question plus actual size+weight+availability date=?

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    I understand, and cant blame you for trying, but I cant think of any teason [reason] that they would give you a partial refund when they are offering to give you a full refund. They know, as well as you do, that they can resell them at full price with the cheaper tires.
    Just because they could sell it to someone else at the original price, does not make it "OK" to change the deal. A sale is essentially a contract to provide goods or service in exchange for money. The price and spec were already approved by both parties at the time of sale.

    Now they change the specs and are essentially charging me more money for less quality parts. There was nothing stated about "specs may change", so I am disappointed with their choices to resolve the issue.

    Anyone buying now "knows" what they are paying for and getting (unless the specs change again?). My issue is that they change the specs and only offer and "take it or leave it" options.

    Consider the stated reason for the change. They have limited availability of the nicer tires to fill the orders. BD is choosing to make a downgrade substitution so they can complete the pre-ordered bikes for sale.

    Therefore, I fully expect that they will be paying a lower price for the wire bead tires rather than the folding bead from their manufacturer/supplier. They get a discount that saves them money, which obviously increases their profits when they hold the original price.

    They had an original spec with the folding tires and set a price they thought was good for them and the consumer. That contained a profit margin that they were happy with or they would not have offered the spec/price.

    Why wouldn't they adjust the price and make the same profit as they originally intended? It sticks us with the bill for their mistake and a less than ideal transaction with BD. If EspenW's estimate is accurate, that 12% difference is probably $10-15 at their cost for both tires. Double that for a common profit and you get in the ballpark of what I estimated for a final price difference in my suggestion earlier.

    The dollar amount is minor compared to the image that we take from this transaction. It smacks of a company focused exclusively on maximizing profits more than customer satisfaction. This seems counter to their apparent ethos of offering "amazing deals" compared to "name brand" bikes that maximize the buyer experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    You are still getting a good deal and will likely upgrade several items in the near future.
    I agree that I am still getting a good deal, just not the same one I agreed to initially. However, I take exception to your claim that I "will likely upgrade several items in the near future". You have no ideas what I plan to do with these bikes.

    The whole reason I chose the Pro model is so I wouldn't have to upgrade anything. That included high spec, light weight tires at a great price until the recent change. If I was merely looking for the cheapest entry and planned to swap parts, I would have picked the Comp model. Not to mention that my GF liked the green or black better. I actually talked her into the Pro because of the better specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    You could always take the tires off and ebay them before use, then use that cash towards whatever tires you want
    Again, this is counter to the whole reason I chose the Pro.

    So, I get tires I don't want, have to sell them myself for $20-25 a piece if I'm lucky. Mail them off to the buyer. Then I spend $37-50 a piece for the tires that were originally spec'd. I end up spending an additional $24-60 (and the time to make that all happen) just to get the same bike I agreed to buy. All that instead of a minor adjustment by BD to the price making a deal at the same profit they already agreed to make.

    Sorry for the argumentative tone, but I don't like people spinning this into a positive scenario when I'm getting less than I agreed to buy.

    I am still getting the bikes, but I have more to consider and possibly do than I had planned. The deal is less attractive than the first offer and is not a positive start in the buying/ownership experience. It does not reflect well on BikesDirect with respect to customer satisfaction.

  72. #272
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    Not trying to spin...you have valid points. I guess I was just trying to reassure you that you are still getting a great deal on two bikes, and dont want to see your experience ruined over tire specs.
    As for the upgrade point, I have not upgraded my Pugsley yet either, but assuming you will ride them often, things wear out and need replaced....like tires. Not trying to ruffle feathers. Enjoy your bikes..
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  73. #273
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    Chader09 You obviously haven't followed most BD threads over the years.
    The people who actually purchase their bikes have a positive image of them. It's the non buyers that have a problem w/ their business practices.
    If I felt like yourself I would not give them a penny, but I don't.
    Your principles fall apart when it comes to saving cash.
    Last edited by rjedoaks; 09-26-2013 at 05:44 PM. Reason: name

  74. #274
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    Understood. It is still the best deal available at the moment despite the tarnish from the downgrade.

    I know that the tires in particular are wear items. Maybe I will hate them for traction, etc. and end up wanting something different. I just didn't want to have to lug around and extra 1.5-2.0 lbs while I burned them down

    Either way, as my GF said, "We will ride the sh!t out of them!"

  75. #275
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    thats the attitude

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjedoaks View Post
    Chader09 You obviously haven't followed most BD threads over the years.
    The people who actually purchase their bikes have a positive image of them. It's the non buyers that have a problem w/ their business practices.
    I know about other peoples experiences. I have followed a few specific bikes from them over the years (CX, road, MTB, etc.). However, nearly all of those were orders on "in-stock" bikes that did not experience last minute changes to specs like the current situation. I am speaking for myself about my first actual buying experience with BD, that is all.

    I expect the bikes to come with the normal issues that need attention during assembly based on what I have read about their other bikes. Other than that, I expect them to run well, hence the reason I actually bought two.

    Quote Originally Posted by rjedoaks View Post
    If I felt like yourself I would not give them a penny, but I don't.
    Your principles fall apart when it comes to saving cash.
    Care to explain this?

    I chose a company with a specific business model that intends to save a customer money compared to other offerings. They do it with a direct to consumer process and lack of "real" locations.

    That practice does not make it acceptable for them to change the product at any time prior to delivery. They have offered options. However, I think they are slightly unfair and not in the best interest of the buyer.

    Possible explanations?
    1) Their story is true, the parts they intended to include aren't available. So they choose to make more money on a lesser product by not adjusting the price.
    2) They sold the bikes so fast, they realize they should have charged more. So they "downgrade" tires to save a few bucks.
    3) 1 is true, but they aren't changing any prices because they are losing money on the Comps, and making it back on the Pros.

    #1 is probably correct, but don't see why they wouldn't make a "peace" offering and make it right for the customer.
    #2 falls apart when you consider the upgrade that the Comp models receive.
    #3 might just be the "even Steven" approach, some win... some lose.

    All this speculation as to motive is pointless though and we can only judge based on what they have stated and allowed for options.

  77. #277
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    Chader09
    Whoa, that was good. All I'm saying is, if you don't like the way they do business don't support em.
    Enjoy your bikes. Honestly

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    does the site linked by the OP reflect the change yet?
    Yes, all models show:
    V-Rubber 26x4.00, VRB321, NORMAL Wire Bead, BK 72TPI
    It was probably changed around the same time the emails went out.

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Not sure what caused the delay, could be problems with prototypes, or more likely production issues. This is the first fatbike tire for Kenda, and it is possible that some unforeseen problems showed up. It is interesting that the sample bikes even at Interbike were sporting Bud/Lou.
    Compare that to Vee Rubber: We started the work on the new 4.7 Vee Rubber Snowshoe at the time of the Taipei show in March, and they had a finished prototype (missing the stud pockets, though) at Interbike.
    Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.
    thanks for the info

  80. #280
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    The only reason I went for the blue was for the tires, I love the black frame. But I can see me on blue, it's kinda growing on me. And next summer when I get some new tires it will make it a new bike, that much weight off the wheels is going to be huge. So it sucks that I will have to pay more but now I get a Christmas present and then a birthday present later.

  81. #281
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    I just had a phone conversation with Mike from BD. He explained their plans and objectives for these bikes and the reasons for their choices in the current issue.

    I appreciate that he took time to answer my questions and share more information than I would have expected.

    I understand their situation and am happily awaiting the arrival of our new fat bikes. This will be a fun winter.

  82. #282
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    Do those plans happen include getting anymore in stock anytime soon??

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    IMO Chader09 is absolutely correct in his evaluation of the situation. It's simply not appropriate to take money (and particularly in a pre-order situation) and then change the spec before delivery. The obvious solution would be to adjust the price to compensate for the lower value tire. The take-it-or-leave-it attitude is totally unprofessional. And... It's likely illegal. I guess one could take delivery of the bike and then use Pay-Pals legal services to force BD to respond with ethical business practices. Or, BD could do the responsible thing, do the math, and quickly refund all buyers the difference (what would it be $30 - $50) via paypal. Done.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    I just had a phone conversation with Mike from BD. He explained their plans and objectives for these bikes and the reasons for their choices in the current issue.

    I appreciate that he took time to answer my questions and share more information than I would have expected.

    I understand their situation and am happily awaiting the arrival of our new fat bikes. This will be a fun winter.
    I think after all the fuss you made earlier in the thread, you kind of owe it to the rest of us to give a full explaination of what Mike said about the tire choice and their "plans and objectives" and why you now feel better about the "bait and switch".

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    Component Discussions and First Upgrades

    So now that these bikes are basically sold out, and we know what we are expecting in the mail, I am curious as to your thoughts about the spec'ed components and the first upgrades you are planning on.

    I personally will probably switch the tires to On One Floaters, and go tubeless first thing. I would probably swap the rear derailleur to a SLX or XT at some point. The brakes I will either switch to Avid mechanical or Shimano Deore or SLX.

    Anyone have any personal experience with the Samox crankset? Do you think this will be equivalent in quality to the Samox specified on the Specialized Fatboy?

    Thoughts on the FSA cockpit?

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    I think after all the fuss you made earlier in the thread, you kind of owe it to the rest of us to give a full explanation of what Mike said about the tire choice and their "plans and objectives" and why you now feel better about the "bait and switch".
    Mike said that he planned to contact those of us who raised concerns about the substitution directly via phone. He did that for me because of my emails and possibly the comments here.

    There was no confidentiality requirement, but I feel that most of our conversation was intended as a private discussion between the buyer and seller. If you are a buyer and want more information, let them know and I suspect they will work with you.

    What I will say is this: they want to improve availability of fat bikes to buyers across the whole spectrum of price points and bring the overall price of each one down to more reasonable levels. That statement fits their objectives across the entire line of bikes they offer.

    This is their first step in that process specifically aimed at fat bikes. I understood his position and agreed to keep my orders in place. They want to make these types of bikes more affordable and accessible to all, which is a goal I admire.

  87. #287
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    He called me too, less than an hour after I sent an email.

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    Upgrades.

    My only initial change will be a saddle. I like Specialized saddles and have spares on hand for new bikes. This is really a preference/comfort issue rather than a quality one.

    Tires are the only real upgrade I plan to do (go figure). I'm trying to decide if I want to order something else right now based on existing reviews or wait and try the tread at least. I know I want lighter, folding tires, but not sure what is best for my area and likely usage.

    I want to do lots of snow, but I think dry trail riding is also very likely based on how much other riders in the area like their fattys in the Spring & Summer. I'm hoping all the other components are solid for a season if not more.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowzx View Post
    He called me too, less than an hour after I sent an email.
    Are you keeping your order too?

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    Yeah. I wanted to try and get the black instead of blue, but they are sold out. It's still a good deal and I know I will have fun with it.

  91. #291
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    Hey all, keep an eye on the website after 5pm EST. They did something on Facebook this afternoon and potentially offered some a possible second chance. If they have some left over they are going to open it to the public....maybe!

    Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibster View Post
    Hey all, keep an eye on the website after 5pm EST. They did something on Facebook this afternoon and potentially offered some a possible second chance. If they have some left over they are going to open it to the public....maybe!
    Boy, are my parents gonna be pissed.

  93. #293
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    I was just able to order the 17" Elite from their Facebook promo. It might be worth a try to "like" BD on FB, find the post about this, follow the directions, and send them a message.
    Good Luck!



    Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibster View Post
    I was just able to order the 17" Elite from their Facebook promo. It might be worth a try to "like" BD on FB, find the post about this, follow the directions, and send them a message.
    Good Luck!



    Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4
    This oppoortunity ends at 5:00 pm EST.

    Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4

  95. #295
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    the only thing i could find was a page that hadn't been updated since 2011... where was the post of which you speak?

    oh... no spaces? clever

    (Thanks yellow)
    Boy, are my parents gonna be pissed.

  96. #296
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    Search bikesdirect no spaces

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    Yeah I actually was able to pick one up this afternoon through that facebook thing.
    They said that if anything is left after 5:00 it will be up on their site.

  98. #298
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    Was able to pick up a 17" comp from the fb thing this afternoon. Super excited. Been riding a full suspension walgoose for the past 6ish years. Most of the gears don't work and the suspension is terrible. Been super impressed that the bike has lasted as long as it has, especially considering where and how I ride. This is going to be a major upgrade for me. Can't wait to tear up the trails.

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by arock View Post
    Was able to pick up a 17" comp from the fb thing this afternoon. Super excited. Been riding a full suspension walgoose for the past 6ish years. Most of the gears don't work and the suspension is terrible. Been super impressed that the bike has lasted as long as it has, especially considering where and how I ride. This is going to be a major upgrade for me. Can't wait to tear up the trails.
    holy shit! 6 years of riding on a walfoose is the pits! If you're the mechanic I think you must be, that can keep a wallroose running for so long, then a bd fatbike will be right up your alley. You may find yourself flummoxed by the components that so easily bend to your will, requiring only allen wrenches and the occasional screwdriver...so few hits from the hammer. I've tuned up enough shitty brand new wallcycles to know how much of a treat you're in for.

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    Vee Mission in Snow?

    Anyone seen/heard anything about snow performance of the Vee Mission? The posted reviews make it sound like a half decent all-around fair-weather/cruising tire, but looks like it might not be enough in the snow. I'm thinking an immediate upgrade might be in order, possibly to the On-One Floater since this is a budget bike after all.

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