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  1. #1
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    Moonlander vs Fatboy

    With the new Specialized Fatboy on the horizon there are two fat bikes with 5" tires. If you were buying a FB with 5" tires . . . which one would you choose? The tried and true Moonie with steel frame or new Fatboy with aluminium frame and carbon fork?

    I'm facing that issue.

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    New duh!

    /thread

  3. #3
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    Mate, theres a load of fatbike that take a 4.8" tyre.... more specific a Bud or Lou. The tried and tested Moonie is and was a game changer and still an awesome bike.... the only down point is the weight. The Spech has not been released yet but should be a really nice bike.

    There's a load of other bikes that take a bud or lou, do a bit of searching or even reading here, all will become clear.
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  4. #4
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    Weight can be fiddled with. My Moonlander is at 30.6 lbs right now. I think a huge part of light Fatboy weight is the 800g rims instead of clown shoes.

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    No doubt Volsung, im in no way bagging the awesome moonie at all. Just pointing out that he has picked the first bike to take the big tyres and there's a bucket load of others now without waiting on one that's not released.

    BTW OP, the difference between Margelites (65mm) and clownshoes (100mm) rims, running the tyres at ~9psi is only about 5mm in tyre width. This is going on info collected here YMMV.
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  6. #6
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    I like turtles

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Wow... that is a great price for complete! I love the raw finish too... I've seen the polished ones in person which are also good looking... but raw is... RAW!

    On the Moony... I love mine and rarely notice the weight over riding my 28lb FS 29er. Different bikes, different feel, etc. Except I can ride my moony anywhere and over any dang thing I want... and by then I have long forgotten or give 2 turds about weight... too busy smiling.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

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    Not bagging on the Moonie either but for the price I would really consider the Spesh. Yeah you can lower the weight of the Moonie with a fistfull of $$$$ but why and yes weight on a fat bike can be argued that's it's no big deal but give someone the choice between lighter and heavier for the same cost and most will pick the lighter. I feel the only reason to go with the Surly is if steel is really important to you and to some it is. Of course this is all a guessing game because the Spesh is still off the grid.

  9. #9
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    Moonlander vs Fatboy

    Yeah, that 907 is pretty awesome...but I really like the specs on the nome.


    "You're like a Ferrari engine driving a dump truck"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLSpruce3 View Post
    With the new Specialized Fatboy on the horizon there are two fat bikes with 5" tires. If you were buying a FB with 5" tires . . . which one would you choose? The tried and true Moonie with steel frame or new Fatboy with aluminium frame and carbon fork?

    I'm facing that issue.
    I was going to ask the same question on the other thread. I planned to get a Moonlander, but I changed my mind to the Fatboy at the last second for two reasons. One of the reasons is rational. The other reason is completely irrational.

    The first reason is the aluminum frame of the Fatboy. I plan to ride on Florida beaches, and my assumption is the aluminum frame would be better than a steel frame.

    The second reason is the new color of the Moonlander. Personally, I hate it. Although I haven't seen it in person, I saw some photos and it looks like that champagne-colored iPhone that Apple will announce next week. According to the media, champagne has become a popular color for new products, but I don't think fatbikes are a good match. Admittedly, paint color is a dumb reason to reject a bike, but I really think Surly should have kept the original color for the Moonlander. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLSpruce3 View Post
    If you were buying a FB with 5" tires . . . which one would you choose? The tried and true Moonie with steel frame or new Fatboy with aluminium frame and carbon fork?
    I wouldn't buy or ride a Special Ed so that's an easy choice for me.

    Even if I would consider a Fatboy I'd wait until the initial run has hit the street and we get reviews from real people. If you scan around the MTBR forums the tales of terror from owners of brand new bike models are not uncommon. Special Ed has never made a fatbike before so I'd let them work out their beta test program on someone else and get in on the next generation.

    My friend rides a Ti Muk with Bud/Lous and Clown Shoes and the 907 is a quality product so you have options if the Moonlander doesn't tickle your fancy.
    Safe riding,

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  12. #12
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    How about you wait until the bike is actually released to see if it's any good before you decide that it's the perfect bike?

    Seriously, just wait until it comes out. It may be awesome. It may be flawed beyond repair. It may be better than the moonlander, it may be worse. Right now, no one knows. No one has ridden it. It may have serious drivetrain issues. It's a fatbike with 5" tires, therefore, drivetrain issues are a distinct possibility.

    As for paint color, I totally get what you mean- I hate hate hate hate hate the generic white paint on my Pugsley, but then again, it's well under $200 to have a bike stripped and re-powdercoated.

    Just relax, have a beer and wait. You live in Florida for god's sake- it's not like the weather is gonna change on you.

  13. #13
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    Steel is real !

    Steel is the best material for a MTB frame (IMO) its compliant and bump absorbing, its always going to be a bit heavier but if you ride a fully rigid steel bike the weight saving is going to go somewhat part of the way towards the stand off with a carbon frame with a susp fork.... all my bikes are fully rigid so im biased.

    Theres no doubt that a well built steelie is worth the weight penalty IMO, the comfort over a long enduro race/ride is definately worth the extra 200-300g when you have a good choice of bling to compliment.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    How about you wait until the bike is actually released to see if it's any good before you decide that it's the perfect bike?

    Seriously, just wait until it comes out. It may be awesome. It may be flawed beyond repair. It may be better than the moonlander, it may be worse. Right now, no one knows. No one has ridden it. It may have serious drivetrain issues. It's a fatbike with 5" tires, therefore, drivetrain issues are a distinct possibility.

    As for paint color, I totally get what you mean- I hate hate hate hate hate the generic white paint on my Pugsley, but then again, it's well under $200 to have a bike stripped and re-powdercoated.

    Just relax, have a beer and wait. You live in Florida for god's sake- it's not like the weather is gonna change on you.
    I definitely haven't decided it's the perfect bike. That's why I keep asking questions.

    And I realize there are risks to any "first generation" product. I am still psychologically scarred from a first generation jet ski I bought many years ago.

    There really aren't any dealers for Surly and Salsa here. However, there is a huge Specialized dealer with a longstanding reputation. That was a third reason for taking a chance on a Fatboy pre-order.

    I thought about the stripping and powdercoating option, but I assumed it might be difficult to duplicate the original Moonlander color. Probably better to just hunt down a 2013 Moonlander.

    In the end, the aluminum frame was the deciding factor. But I am interested in opinions about whether or not aluminum is better for beach riding. I really don't know - that's why I keep asking questions.

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    If the bike is a keeper-- steel is a better bet for rigid and hardtails imo.

    Digressing... Just wondering if we will ever see a good steel like an 853 or 953 lugged fattie Probably expensive and limited run by some custom builder if ever, especially no lug I believe has ever been made for this category of bike...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Spock View Post
    In the end, the aluminum frame was the deciding factor. But I am interested in opinions about whether or not aluminum is better for beach riding. I really don't know - that's why I keep asking questions.
    My Pugsley has survived months of camping at the beach [like in a tent where I could toss a frisbee into the ocean], 2 Canadian winters and lots of moisture living on the BC coast.

    I'm 5yrs into owning my Pugsley with no real issues. After 3yrs or so I decided to re-powder coat to deal with some surface rust in a few spots. That could have been avoided if I had bothered to wipe down the bike at all.

    My drivetrain and brakes rusted, my BB bearings got contaminated and one of the two Pugsleys I had has disintegrating AL spoke nipples due to salt corrosion [the other is brass].

    Aluminum will oxidize, but it's less of an issue than with a steel bike. You'll still want to remove and lube parts so they don't corrode into place permanently on your AL bike.

    Having said that care of the frame is a tiny % of the care needed to keep the bike rolling at the beach and regardless of frame material fatbikes share the same parts.

    I live and play in high corrosion environments. I tried an AL MTB because I thought it would be easier to take care of. I ended up only keeping it for a year and replacing it with a steel frame [just swappped the parts across]. The steel bike has a nicer ride and is in practice no more effort to maintain.

    FWIW - for low beach riding maintenance the best thing I could suggest would be to run an IGH. Keeping gears protected from sand and salt means a lot less wrenching compared to the riding.
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  17. #17
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    Another consideration is hubs. Pugs/Moonie uses cheap (and great!) 135mm hubs, whereas the 190mm hubs are very limited and expensive. So if you're planning spare wheelsets, or touring, etc, the 135mm hub is still a huge benefit when comparing the bikes.

  18. #18
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    As far as fatties are concerned, the tyre susp will rule out "most" of the steel frame advantage..... but as asthetics are concerned, theres nothing looks better than a skinny steel frame with mothafukken fat wheels, im talking 2.4's.... nevermind 4'8's.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    I love mine and rarely notice the weight over riding my 28lb FS 29er. Different bikes, different feel, etc. Except I can ride my moony anywhere and over any dang thing I want... and by then I have long forgotten or give 2 turds about weight... too busy smiling.
    This...but on a Pug "Ops"...green machine.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armyballer View Post
    This...but on a Pug "Ops"...green machine.
    Please give us more of a ride report about the ops. There's actually very little thread info or discussion about the new ops...
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    Or , start a new thread about it ?
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    30lb moonie

    specs and pic on scales ?


    My Ti carver with marge lites and top end kit is that weight!!!

  23. #23
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    Moonlander vs Fatboy

    The pugs ops is the same as the necromancer. I don't think we need another thread for a green version....am I alone here?


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  24. #24
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    My very basic Moonlander is 33 lbs. I'm sure it could be brought to 30.6 lbs with ease. Just a carbon fork would make about half of the difference. I have Juicy 7's on mine so there's a possibility to reduce weight, carbon bars and foam grips would drop it also, and my hubs are boat-anchor level (Surly and Shimano XT). Switching spokes to Revolutions would have some effect and my Shimano Saints aren't the lightest of pedals.

    A sub-30 lbs Moonlander is barely a challenge, it requires just some choices regarding parts and a bit of cash on the barrel head.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    My very basic Moonlander is 33 lbs. I'm sure it could be brought to 30.6 lbs with ease. Just a carbon fork would make about half of the difference. I have Juicy 7's on mine so there's a possibility to reduce weight, carbon bars and foam grips would drop it also, and my hubs are boat-anchor level (Surly and Shimano XT). Switching spokes to Revolutions would have some effect and my Shimano Saints aren't the lightest of pedals.


    A sub-30 lbs Moonlander is barely a challenge, it requires just some choices regarding parts and a bit of cash on the barrel head.
    Not wanting to be argumentative but to buy both bikes at about the same retail then have to stick $1000 into one to make it about the same weight doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense. Please don't get me wrong I have had 2 Pugs (loved them) and still have one but really what is there to gain from one choosing that route?

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    Moonlander vs Fatboy

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Not wanting to be argumentative but to buy both bikes at about the same retail then have to stick $1000 into one to make it about the same weight doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense. Please don't get me wrong I have had 2 Pugs (loved them) and still have one but really what is there to gain from one choosing that route?
    If one were to have a passionate hate for Specialized, then that's your answer. Not that anyone in this forum does, just thinking out loud ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    .... but as asthetics are concerned, theres nothing looks better than a skinny steel frame with mothafukken fat wheels, im talking 2.4's.... nevermind 4'8's.
    As an owner of a skinny tubed steel bike with 2.4's on it....I concur.
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  28. #28
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    My moony is all about my comfort and weight be damned. I can ride faster and over more than I did on any of my fatbikes. The moonlander just feels right. If you care about weight it's not the bike for you.

    Sure I could save weight but my parts are chosen for my comfort. Where is the real difference? 2-3 lbs heavier in the frame?

    And hay build a moonlander from the frame up like I did. This way you get exactly what you want.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schott View Post
    If one were to have a passionate hate for Specialized, then that's your answer. Not that anyone in this forum does, just thinking out loud ;-)
    So very wise you are!! A person could substitute 907 or Fatback for the ML and could come up with the same results.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Not wanting to be argumentative but to buy both bikes at about the same retail then have to stick $1000 into one to make it about the same weight doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense. Please don't get me wrong I have had 2 Pugs (loved them) and still have one but really what is there to gain from one choosing that route?
    Not buying Specialized and I wouldn't spend $1K extra on a Moonlander. I would just ride it.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Not wanting to be argumentative but to buy both bikes at about the same retail then have to stick $1000 into one to make it about the same weight doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense. Please don't get me wrong I have had 2 Pugs (loved them) and still have one but really what is there to gain from one choosing that route?
    Oh, I was actually getting a bit off-topic because I didn't even think of comparison between the two. Volsung made a claim and cozz questioned it, so I figured that I'd shed some light on the subject of Moonlander and weight.

    If you want a light bike, indeed the Specialized is much more cost-effective.

    A reasonably light Moonlander could be built from parts for less than a complete + upgrades afterwards, so the cost or weight should not be exaggerated. But in this department it has the shorter straw against Specialized.

  32. #32
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    Moonlander vs Fatboy

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    So very wise you are!! A person could substitute 907 or Fatback for the ML and could come up with the same results.
    I really really want a 907.


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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cozz View Post
    30lb moonie

    specs and pic on scales ?


    My Ti carver with marge lites and top end kit is that weight!!!
    Bike specs with pics

    i can take pics later, ufc right now though. that link's got some old specs. my free crime scene tape blew up on the first hot day of the year and i put my commuter bike's saddle on.

    glover texiera's a beast btw.

  34. #34
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    After reading this thread I got curious about my bike's weight and weighed my Moonlander.

    For the sake of this discussion and as a point of reference, my Moonie weighs in at 30.14 lbs with at least a few grams of dirt, mud, slime, and grime from a weekend of beach, woods, and alpine single track.
    Specs:
    Wire bead 120 tpi BFLs, Clownshoes nylon rim ribbon, Specialized HD downhill tubes, Salsa Front hub, X9 rear hub, X9 RD, 11-34 XT cassette, Surly MWOD, ebay nylon (plastic) BMX pedals, stock Andel BB cups with Phil Wood bearings, Surly seatpost clamp, Origin8 carbon seatpost, old tiTec saddle, cane creek S3 headset, Ahrens headset spacer bottle opener, carbon headset spacers, Ritchey stem, carbon Answer 20/20 bars (720mm uncut), cork grips, Carver o'beast fork (uncut), X9 grip shifts, Formula R1 rear brake, No front brake. 2 King Cage ti water bottle cages. Not too bad considering the heavy ass Surly crank and steel frame.
    Moonlander vs Fatboy-image.jpg
    Last edited by Beard of Power; 09-09-2013 at 10:33 PM.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beard of Power View Post
    After reading this thread I got curious about my bike's weight and weighed my Moonlander.

    For the sake of this discussion and as a point of reference, my Moonie weighs in at 30.14 lbs
    Is that an 18" frame? I think the big weight loss tool is the Carver carbon fork, correct? I'd love to get my Moonlander down some... I was at 36 lbs last I checked... but running stock fork, heavy surly toobs, and 203 front rotor that isn't exactly light.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Is that an 18" frame? I think the big weight loss tool is the Carver carbon fork, correct?
    Yup, 18" frame, full of frame saver. The lack of Avid BB7's is a big weight savings, in addition to all the carbon bits. With Steel fork, front R1 brake, and Bud-Lou rubber, the Moonie weighed 32.32 lbs. Bike Is the New Black: Spring Weightless Plan for Moonlander

    Swapping forks resulting in a loss of 558 grams or (1.23 lbs) assuming you don't cut your steer-tube. Stock Moonlander fork weight is published as 1150 grams (2.535 lbs), my Carver fork weighed in at 592 grams (1.305 lbs), 14 g. over Carver's published weight of 578 grams. Inconsistency in the surface of post mounts on the Carver fork prevented me from mounting my front brake, the pads were impossible to get parallel to the rotor. Also the Carver fork changed the geometry of the Moonlander, due to longer A-C.

    So getting back to the Fatboy vs. Moonlander question; if having a lightish 4.8" tire fatbike is your goal, the Fatboy is 'less grams for the $$$' straight out of the box, with the advantage of a complete bike with all parts designed from the ground up to function well together (and possibly better quality control). Personally, I like working on bikes, testing, tinkering, and swapping parts around, changing the mannerisms and performance of the bike. With the Moonlander, I will likely be throwing the steel fork back on and adding an Alfine 8 within the next year, which will bring it back up to the neighborhood of 40 lbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Is that an 18" frame? I think the big weight loss tool is the Carver carbon fork, correct? I'd love to get my Moonlander down some... I was at 36 lbs last I checked... but running stock fork, heavy surly toobs, and 203 front rotor that isn't exactly light.
    A 203mm on a moonie ? Could you post a pic of that setup on the carver fork ?
    Did it work on the ML fork ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxo56 View Post
    A 203mm on a moonie ? Could you post a pic of that setup on the carver fork ?
    Did it work on the ML fork ?
    I just have the stock steel fork. I don't think you are supposed to go that big on a Carver though.

    Moonlander vs Fatboy-camerazoom-20130325180957346.jpg
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    I just have the stock steel fork. I don't think you are supposed to go that big on a Carver though.
    I don't think that you need A brake that big.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    I don't think that you need A brake that big.
    For doin' killer endos, man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizzard75 View Post
    For doin' killer endos, man.
    Not for the skilled, I think that you need 2 brakes that big.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

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    Love the fact that I have found this tread as I am on my way to my local dealer on friday who sells Spesh and Surly. I am in the exact same boat. Moonlander or a Fatboy expert.
    My Question is to all the Moonlander owners is this. What is the Weight of a stock complete?
    Spesh is claiming 30lbs without pedals I have heard a stock Moonlander is 40lbs.
    This is going to be a wet coast bike on Vancouver Island and used as a winter fun bike and a camping dad bike with my girls in the summer. Most of my riding will be under two hours in the winter time and limited snow due to very mild winters.
    Any Advice?
    A stock fatboy expert and a stock Moonlander are about the same price.
    Do I roll the dice on a first gen Fatboy having never seen one with 4.6 tires
    or
    Do I roll the dice on a Moonlander having never seen one (rare breed)with 4.8 tires.
    If it helps I am 190lbs and just a normal run of the mill joe average BC trail rider.
    Thanks in Advance

  43. #43
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    My XL Moonlander was around 36 lbs. with the Surly build kit. You can loose 2 pounds just by removing all of the button head screws from the bottle and rack mounts (not really 2 pounds).
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  44. #44
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    Complete Stock Fat Bike Weights

    16" Moonlander = 35.54
    18" Moonlander = 35.76
    20" Moonlander = 35.88
    22" Moonlander = 36.30

    weight is not the only issue in comparing these bikes.
    Consider: frame geometry, steel vs. alum/carbon, rack compatibility, Surly can be run single-speed or IGH down the road if desired...
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyto View Post
    Love the fact that I have found this tread as I am on my way to my local dealer on friday who sells Spesh and Surly. I am in the exact same boat. Moonlander or a Fatboy expert.
    My Question is to all the Moonlander owners is this. What is the Weight of a stock complete?
    Spesh is claiming 30lbs without pedals I have heard a stock Moonlander is 40lbs.
    This is going to be a wet coast bike on Vancouver Island and used as a winter fun bike and a camping dad bike with my girls in the summer. Most of my riding will be under two hours in the winter time and limited snow due to very mild winters.
    Any Advice?
    A stock fatboy expert and a stock Moonlander are about the same price.
    Do I roll the dice on a first gen Fatboy having never seen one with 4.6 tires
    or
    Do I roll the dice on a Moonlander having never seen one (rare breed)with 4.8 tires.
    If it helps I am 190lbs and just a normal run of the mill joe average BC trail rider.
    Thanks in Advance
    In the end ultimately only you can make that decision but I would not hesitate to buy a first year run from Spesh especially an aluminum HT. It's a tough call but if it was me I would look towards the Spesh.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bighit's Avatar
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    Moonlander vs Fatboy

    My weighs 37 with no fenders and rear pack. I have 8" discs front and rear. bud and Lou tires with stock tubes. I also added straight line pedals. Stock post cranks, bb and hubs.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  47. #47
    NMBP
    Reputation: crashtestdummy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    My weighs 37 with no fenders and rear pack. I have 8" discs front and rear. bud and Lou tires with stock tubes. I also added straight line pedals. Stock post cranks, bb and hubs.
    How much does all that mud weigh? And I think you could take more weight off if you used carbon fiber mud or tubeless mud.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bighit's Avatar
    Join Date
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    2,512

    Moonlander vs Fatboy

    Moonlander vs Fatboy-imageuploadedbytapatalk1379014648.834243.jpg I did put it on a mud diet but the strength to weight ratio was off :-o
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  49. #49
    Human Test Subject
    Reputation: Volsung's Avatar
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    The worst part of a Moonlander is it's really hard to see if the rear rotor is true because of the offset.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyto View Post
    Love the fact that I have found this tread as I am on my way to my local dealer on friday who sells Spesh and Surly. I am in the exact same boat. Moonlander or a Fatboy expert.
    My Question is to all the Moonlander owners is this. What is the Weight of a stock complete?
    Spesh is claiming 30lbs without pedals I have heard a stock Moonlander is 40lbs.
    This is going to be a wet coast bike on Vancouver Island and used as a winter fun bike and a camping dad bike with my girls in the summer. Most of my riding will be under two hours in the winter time and limited snow due to very mild winters.
    Any Advice?
    A stock fatboy expert and a stock Moonlander are about the same price.
    Do I roll the dice on a first gen Fatboy having never seen one with 4.6 tires
    or
    Do I roll the dice on a Moonlander having never seen one (rare breed)with 4.8 tires.
    If it helps I am 190lbs and just a normal run of the mill joe average BC trail rider.
    Thanks in Advance
    Where are you on Van Isle? You are welcome to come by and check out my Pugs in Victoria and discuss island fat biking options. It's rolling on Big Fat Larrys and 82mm rims.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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