Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,824

    Moonlander Fork/Hope Hub Issue

    My front wheel with a 135mm Hope Fatsno hub won't seat on my Moonlander fork. Part of the problem might be that the fork has an interior width of 131mm (hub is dead on 135), but even forcing the fork legs apart the hub will barely slide half way up the dropout, pushing down as hard as I can on the front end.

    The fork measures 9.5mm at the dropout, but the axle is a full 10mm. I guess the obvious solution is to file/cut away at the paint until it fits, but I'd rather avoid that on a steel frame. Doesn't seem like that should be necessary on a $700 frameset anyway, so my questions are:

    -Should the fork fit a 10mm axle (i.e, this combo should be compatible, right?)
    -Has anyone else successfully used this combo without having to tear into the paint? I'm about ready to warranty the fork at this point, but don't want to lose the time if there's no hope of the next one being any better.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  2. #2
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,138
    The Hope is a front disc 135 and the moonlander needs a rear disc 135. Like a Surly hub. You need a different hub or a different fork.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kreater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    698
    mine measures 135mm, the hope should work, albeit with a rotor adaptor to kick it out for the rear disc spacing. any other lader owners can measure the ID of their fork.
    "Live dangerously and you live right."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,824
    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    The Hope is a front disc 135
    No, it's not.

    I don't even have the rotor and caliper mounted yet, the hub will simply not fit in the fork.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hardtack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    38
    According to Hope the Fatsno is a 135mm front hub with 135mm rear OLD spacing , so it should work fine

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,856
    A bud of mine just built up his 9zero7 with Fatsno front and rear hubs...he said on both ends of his bike the hubs fit really tight in the dropouts. Almost like there was too much powder/paint in the rear dropouts. He's using a Enabler fork with the bare stainless dropouts though, so that's not the problem on the front end of the bike.

    I've got a Fatsno rear that's getting laced into my soon-to-be Holy Rolling Daryl this off-season (summer). I haven't tried it in the drops of my Mukluk, but it'll be interesting if that frame is tight too. Hope maybe using slightly oversized axles?

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,824
    Quote Originally Posted by Nater View Post
    Hope maybe using slightly oversized axles?
    According to Fatbikes.com, they are specced at 10mm (as mine measured). I just measured a Salsa Enabler hub I have sitting around, and it's 9.8mm.

    Traditional front QR hubs are 9mm diameter, but it kind of makes sense that 135mm fat bike forks would be designed around 10mm (i.e. traditional rear 135 axle diameter), since they were originally designed for rear hubs (hence the rear brake spacing). Surely the offset Moonlander fork is designed to accomodate a 10mm axle, so why won't my symmetrical one?
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,280
    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    According to Fatbikes.com, they are specced at 10mm (as mine measured). I just measured a Salsa Enabler hub I have sitting around, and it's 9.8mm.

    Traditional front QR hubs are 9mm diameter, but it kind of makes sense that 135mm fat bike forks would be designed around 10mm (i.e. traditional rear 135 axle), since they were originally designed for rear hubs (hence the rear brake spacing). Surely the offset Moonlander fork is designed to accomodate a 10mm axle, so why won't my symmetrical one?
    Clean the paint out of the dropout! I know you said you want to leave it but that is very likely what is keeping your hub from fitting. Clean sparingly and you might not have to remove all of it, although once you've used the bike for awhile it will probably get worn through anyway.
    Latitude 61

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Desert Walker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    360
    Just hit it with a big hammer.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    131

    Mischief Managed

    I had the same issue with my carver truss fork. It was the 10mm axle not the 135mm spacing. I did file the drop outs and problem solved.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ferrstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    227
    I have the same setup - a Fatsnow hub with a 10mm DT Swiss through bolt. It fit my Moonlander fork with no issues at all. I have a non-offset ML fork. I didn't need to remove any paint from the dropouts.

    There was some confusion at Hope about exactly what was needed to run this combo. The Fatsno front hub needs to be equipped with non-driveside 10mm through-bolt rear adaptors on both sides for this combination. Hope was nice enough to send me a pair of them after I called them and told them they had sent me the wrong thing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander Fork/Hope Hub Issue-fatsno.jpg  

    Last edited by ferrstein; 01-20-2013 at 06:25 AM.

  12. #12
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,138
    My bad for the erroneous info!
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,824
    Quote Originally Posted by ferrstein View Post
    I have the same setup - a Fatsnow hub with a 10mm DT Swiss through bolt. It fit my Moonlander fork with no issues at all. I have a non-offset ML fork. I didn't need to remove any paint from the dropouts.

    There was some confusion at Hope about exactly what was needed to run this combo. The Fatsno front hub needs to be equipped with non-driveside 10mm through-bolt rear adaptors on both sides for this combination. Hope was nice enough to send me a pair of them after I called them and told them they had sent me the wrong thing.
    Great info, thanks!

    So it sounds like it is a matter of tolerances, not incompatability. I'll give Surly a call tomorrow and see if being off 3% on the hub width and 5% on the axle diameter is okay in their book.

    If I do have to file it down I'll definitely try to leave some paint; as infrequently as I remove my wheels on my fatbike it should last for quite awhile.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: coastkid71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,803
    Hi, I think what has happened is that the hubs are sent out with a 10mm diameter axle/fork tounge spacer when they need the 9mm as fitted to the regular Hope Pro 2 hub.
    I know Hope will swap these free of charge if this is needed. If you are in the USA i imagine your shop will get them from the importer for free too.

    My Hope Pro 2 regular hub spacers fit into the Moonie dropout fine so seems to be indeed the issue,

    I hope to get my fatsno hub any day so will let you know on here,
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    50
    I'm 99% sure that these problems are because of paint drops that cause the dropouts to shrink. Just take a sharp knife at it and it'll be fine. I had to carve both my front and back dropouts...

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,824
    Surly said to try removing the paint, but also that they were aware of the issue and are "working on it". They didn't seem concerned in the least that the dropouts only measured 131mm apart.

    I did end up having to take all the paint off, so it's clearly not just an issue of "paint drops", "overspray", etc. The dropouts still only measured 9.8mm, but I got the wheel in without too much fuss.

    To add insult to injury, the fork's IS mount was off too, in a couple dimensions. Nothing a few spacers couldn't fix, but I'm not exactly kicking myself for not buying a Surly earlier, and definitely wouldn't do it again if there was another option to run Bud/Lou on hundies. Don't even get me started on the nightmare that was installing the Mr. Whirly cranks.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pbasinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    Surly said to try removing the paint, but also that they were aware of the issue and are "working on it". They didn't seem concerned in the least that the dropouts only measured 131mm apart.

    I did end up having to take all the paint off, so it's clearly not just an issue of "paint drops", "overspray", etc. The dropouts still only measured 9.8mm, but I got the wheel in without too much fuss.

    To add insult to injury, the fork's IS mount was off too, in a couple dimensions. Nothing a few spacers couldn't fix, but I'm not exactly kicking myself for not buying a Surly earlier, and definitely wouldn't do it again if there was another option to run Bud/Lou on hundies. Don't even get me started on the nightmare that was installing the Mr. Whirly cranks.

    Building up bikes often requires some bending, filing, and hitting with a mallet. Chances are, other bikes youíve owned that were built up by someone else required the same, you just donít know it. I can understand how several minor things might seem to add up to big deal, but what youíre describing here sounds pretty normal. Donít get me wrong, itís nice when you donít have to file and bend and monkey with stuff, but sounds like they are working on getting tolerances dialed in.
    I would lay that fork on the ground, step on one dropout and pull it open. 4mm is nothing. I did this with a Pugs for a few years ago to get a 113mm hub to fit, or borrow a frame bending tool from a shop if you need more leverage. Then round file that dropout. Very easy and really not an uncommon practice.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    50
    I assume that a fork can get bent on any occasion between manufacturing and the end user. My moonie fork is a but loose with the fatsno hub, maybe 136mm wide at the dropouts. That's fine, it fits well when tightened.

    I also had a bit of problems with brake alignment. Solved it with a few spacers even though my LBS offered to straighten it out for me.

  19. #19
    NMBP
    Reputation: crashtestdummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,049
    My new Moonie had one fork drop-out that wouldn't go one the hub. A few quick strokes with a file fixed it. Also, my forks measure about 138 mm between the drop-outs.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ferrstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    227
    Wow, I must've gotten lucky with mine.

    Having said that, I would like to get a fork with Bud/Clownshoe clearance that is a little longer than the stock Moonie. In the deep stuff the bike feels twitchy to me with the stock fork.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,824
    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    Building up bikes often requires some bending, filing, and hitting with a mallet. Chances are, other bikes youíve owned that were built up by someone else required the same, you just donít know it.
    I've built up several dozen bikes over the last ten years, and the Moonlander was by far the most aggravating (ironically, building the crazy offset into the rear wheel was a complete non-issue). Maybe this is normal for Surly though; most (but not all) of my builds have been higher end US made frames.

    Finally got to ride the damn thing today, and almost forgot about all the frustration. Hard to put a price on traction that just won't quit.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  22. #22
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,138
    I just recently got a Moonlander fork for my Pugsley and took it into the LBS to have the brake mounts cleaned. The mechanic said they were way off, had to straighten the disc tab and do around 30 minutes of work on that thing.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •