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  1. #1
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    Moonlander Bottom Bracket Issues

    After 5 rides, 2 in the snow, my stock bottom bracket on my new Moonlander has seized (MWOD external). When I pulled the cups to see what the problem was, I found quite a bit of water in the bottom of the frame. I was also surprised to find that there was no center sleeve between the cups. I've searched the forums and have found only one other reference to bottom bracket issues with the stock Moonlander.

    Iím not sure how the water is entering the frame as I have not washed the bike and no water has entered through the seat tube. After riding in the snow, the entire bottom bracket area is encased in ice, so maybe the water enters through the bottom bracket seals as it melts.

    I think a center sleeve would have protected the bearings and I find it hard to believe that the Moonlander doesn't come with one. I've got a couple of old X-type cups laying around that will get me through for the time being, but without a center sleeve I think Iíll be having more problems soon.

    I think the best solution is to replace the bottom bracket with a Chris King. This is my preferred replacement as it is designed to allow grease injection. Raceface also makes the Team DH for fat bikes. I canít use an FSA, Truvativ or Phil Wood, as the axles are not compatible with the MWOD crankset. As far as I can tell, the only difference between a standard Shimano type bottom bracket and a fat bike bottom bracket is the width of the center sleeve (100mm versus 68/73mm).

    So my questions to the forum are: has anyone else had problems with the stock MWOD bottom brackets? What bottom brackets are people using with the MWOD crankset?

    Until I've bought a replacement, Iíll try letting my bike melt upside down after a snow ride in the hopes that melt water will run down the seat tube instead of pooling in the bottom of the frame.

  2. #2
    gone walk about
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    no drain hole on the bottom side of the shell?? if not drill a smallish one.

  3. #3
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    I'm on my phone so I can't easily dig up the thread, but almost everyone who has ridden their moonlander in adverse conditions has had to replace their BB. Mine died within 500 miles so I put in an ultegra bb. It works and makes me smile because of its ridiculousness.

  4. #4
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    My BB cups say Andel on them and were supplied by the LBS that sold me the frameset and parts. The mechanic recommended that I drill a drain hole, because water somehow always finds its way in. If nothing else, condensation would do it because of temperature changes.

  5. #5
    Geordie biker
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    Yeah, a few us had them die at 100 miles!

    Barely greased from the factory....hope cups have been no issues since.

    2014 milage so far - 2,485
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  6. #6
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Thanks for the heads up. I'll be replacing mine even though I haven't had a problem with them yet.

  7. #7
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    When Saltyman was having issues earler this year with his I took mine apart and checked......NO GREASE
    I'm still running the stock original bearings but drilled a drain hole. (Solved so far)

    By the way thanks for saying something at the time Saltyman I would have been doomed to a long walk eventually
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  8. #8
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    I'd drill two holes, one at either end just shy of where the cups end. That's because I just lean my bikes up against a bench in the shed, so the water would pool to one side. Also, having two holes would release the water easier as air can flow into the unflooded hole.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  9. #9
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    would drilling the holes void a frame issue down the road? not a big to do, but if they want to get uppity about a replacement .........

  10. #10
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    You'd have to ask Surly that question. I'd imagine it might cause problems. But then it depends on what the claim is for.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  11. #11
    Frt Range, CO
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    Mine went bad, I emailed the surly info mailbox, they sent me a new set with much more grease. The Surly website documents the new ones have different bearings with proper grease. All good now.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for everyone's input. I just sent an email to Surly. With any luck they'll send me some new bearings.

    I'll skip drilling holes for the time being. I think the water problem can be more easily remedied by inserting a protective sleeve between the bearing cups (like Chris King and Raceface bottom brackets). That should keep the water off of the bearings. And I'll continue to let the bike thaw upside down so that any condensation and water that has seeped past the seals can safely drain down the seat tube.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltyman View Post
    Yeah, a few us had them die at 100 miles!

    Barely greased from the factory....hope cups have been no issues since.

    Thanks for the tip" I didn't install mine, but I will check in a few.

    Please make these hopes in green
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
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  14. #14
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    Also happens because no plastic spacer joining the bearings so the moisture gets into the bearing from behind as mentioned
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  15. #15
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by brknspk View Post
    I think the water problem can be more easily remedied by inserting a protective sleeve between the bearing cups (like Chris King and Raceface bottom brackets). That should keep the water off of the bearings.
    Yup, that's the ticket.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Mine went bad, I emailed the surly info mailbox, they sent me a new set with much more grease. The Surly website documents the new ones have different bearings with proper grease. All good now.
    Can you tell me the email address that you used? I've sent a few to the address listed on their website (derby@surlybikes.com) and have never gotten a response.

  17. #17
    Frt Range, CO
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    That's the guy, I gave him a few days and he got back to me.

  18. #18
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    Buying a moonlander but LBS hasn't assembled yet.

    How can I tell if mine has updated BB?

    Would like to get sorted before LBS assembles it.

  19. #19
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    Mine was shipped to my LBS about 4 weeks ago and is the 2013 model. I doubt very much that your bottom bracket will be any different from mine. No matter what BB you get, it's not worth much without a plastic sleeve. I'd suggest buying a Chris King Center Sleeve for $10 and using it with the stock cups: Chris Kingģ Bottom Bracket Center Sleeve - 100mm, Fat Bike - Black: Bottom Bracket Parts ē AVT - Aspire VeloTech - Chris King World's Largest Dealer

    I thing the stock BB will be fine with the additional protection provided by the plastic sleeve.

    I can't find a reference on the Surly website to new bearings for the MWOD, but I do see that they're including the "Spindle Sleeve" with the O.D. crankset. I wonder why it's not included with the MWOD?
    Last edited by brknspk; 11-29-2012 at 06:14 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by brknspk View Post
    After 5 rides, 2 in the snow, my stock bottom bracket on my new Moonlander has seized (MWOD external). When I pulled the cups to see what the problem was, I found quite a bit of water in the bottom of the frame. I was also surprised to find that there was no center sleeve between the cups. I've searched the forums and have found only one other reference to bottom bracket issues with the stock Moonlander.

    Iím not sure how the water is entering the frame as I have not washed the bike and no water has entered through the seat tube. After riding in the snow, the entire bottom bracket area is encased in ice, so maybe the water enters through the bottom bracket seals as it melts.

    I think a center sleeve would have protected the bearings and I find it hard to believe that the Moonlander doesn't come with one. I've got a couple of old X-type cups laying around that will get me through for the time being, but without a center sleeve I think Iíll be having more problems soon.

    I think the best solution is to replace the bottom bracket with a Chris King. This is my preferred replacement as it is designed to allow grease injection. Raceface also makes the Team DH for fat bikes. I canít use an FSA, Truvativ or Phil Wood, as the axles are not compatible with the MWOD crankset. As far as I can tell, the only difference between a standard Shimano type bottom bracket and a fat bike bottom bracket is the width of the center sleeve (100mm versus 68/73mm).

    So my questions to the forum are: has anyone else had problems with the stock MWOD bottom brackets? What bottom brackets are people using with the MWOD crankset?

    Until I've bought a replacement, Iíll try letting my bike melt upside down after a snow ride in the hopes that melt water will run down the seat tube instead of pooling in the bottom of the frame.
    same thing on my necro

    here's how I fixed the problem. no issues yet on new BB

    Fat Bike Bottom Bracket Mod

  21. #21
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    Very nice. Glad to hear that it works.

  22. #22
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    Geez Bill...

    You break everything!

    Some may argue that the sleeve IS the problem, as it holds the moisture in. Could be. Some have also found the grease to be a bit lacking in some of the OE cranksets. All I know is that all my bikes have a drain hole in the BB housing. I ride through creeks a bit!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  23. #23
    gone walk about
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Some may argue that the sleeve IS the problem, as it holds the moisture in. Could be. Some have also found the grease to be a bit lacking in some of the OE cranksets. All I know is that all my bikes have a drain hole in the BB housing. I ride through creeks a bit!
    yup drain holes are quite common place.

  24. #24
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    Even though I tried to take care o the stock BB on my Moonlander, it putz'd out in under 300mi. Switched to a Chris King and no probs since!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Geez Bill...

    You break everything!
    To a certain degree John, thatís true. I'm fairly aggressive and stuff breaks. Most of the time it's a direct result of something I did (or hit). Iím a good mechanic and deal with it by buying replacement parts and maintaining my bikes. Itís seldom that I encounter a problem due to poor design, but this is unfortunately one of those situations. I think that there should be spindle sleeves delivered with the stock build.

    Iím holding off on drain holes at this point as Iíve never seen them on a stock mountain bike (road bikes yes, mountain bikes no). Can anyone name a stock mountain bike or fat bike delivered with drain holes? If so, Iíll look into it and reevaluate.

  26. #26
    gone walk about
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    Quote Originally Posted by brknspk View Post
    To a certain degree John, thatís true. I'm fairly aggressive and stuff breaks. Most of the time it's a direct result of something I did (or hit). Iím a good mechanic and deal with it by buying replacement parts and maintaining my bikes. Itís seldom that I encounter a problem due to poor design, but this is unfortunately one of those situations. I think that there should be spindle sleeves delivered with the stock build.

    Iím holding off on drain holes at this point as Iíve never seen them on a stock mountain bike (road bikes yes, mountain bikes no). Can anyone name a stock mountain bike or fat bike delivered with drain holes? If so, Iíll look into it and reevaluate.
    yes my new pug has a hole directly in the center of the shell.

  27. #27
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    I'm pleased to report that Surly contacted me last week and graciously sent me a new BB. And although their initial response was slow, I'm happy with their customer service and final resolution to my problem. Best of all, they replaced the bearings with a Raceface DH 100mm bottom bracket!

    I think I'll hold off on the drain hole for now and see how the plastic sleeve works over time.

  28. #28
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    2 road rides, 2 off road rides and one cyclocross race and mine is tight as can be.
    Moonlander Bottom Bracket Issues-imageuploadedbytapatalk1355447912.749463.jpg

    Yep time For the King!
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
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    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  29. #29
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    What model Chris king will work for the moonlander? There are shimano and sram compatable. Which one works for the moonlander?

  30. #30
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    All of Surly's cranksets are shimano compatible - you want the Shimano version.

  31. #31
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    Thanks!

  32. #32
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    Which cups are better for the Moonlander?

    The BB cups on my Moonlander have died after about 500 - 600 miles. I've lost a small part of my crankset (i don't know the name of it, it's replaced with a cork from a wine bottle on the photo below) during the last event, so maybe the sealing was damaged:



    As was mentioned above, there was no sleeve in stock bottom bracket. I don't know, whether it is the reason or not, but now I want to install something more durable on my bike. Much more durable.

    The question is: what to install - Hope or Chris King? Both look to be very user serviceable, durable and expensive, but what is better for the Moonlander? Does either of them have a sleeve?
    Please, sorry for my English. It's not my native language.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitatunarabe View Post
    The BB cups on my Moonlander have died after about 500 - 600 miles. I've lost a small part of my crankset (i don't know the name of it, it's replaced with a cork from a wine bottle on the photo below) during the last event, so maybe the sealing was damaged:



    As was mentioned above, there was no sleeve in stock bottom bracket. I don't know, whether it is the reason or not, but now I want to install something more durable on my bike. Much more durable.

    The question is: what to install - Hope or Chris King? Both look to be very user serviceable, durable and expensive, but what is better for the Moonlander? Does either of them have a sleeve?
    Mine stink too and I want the green king ones but will just any set do? Where are the peeps who are using them, anyone?
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
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  34. #34
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    Mine stink too and I want the green king ones but will just any set do? Where are the peeps who are using them, anyone?
    I've gone with the King.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitatunarabe View Post
    The BB cups on my Moonlander have died after about 500 - 600 miles. I've lost a small part of my crankset (i don't know the name of it, it's replaced with a cork from a wine bottle on the photo below) during the last event, so maybe the sealing was damaged:....
    The part your missing now is the: Bearing Adjust Cap and I would seek a replacement.

    Bearing Adjust Cap Non-drive Silver | Parts | Surly Bikes

    I too went with Chris King Bearings along with the grease injection tool.

    EDIT: Bighit I ordered the "BBA3B Btm Brkt "A" Black" CK Bearing set and "PBB019 BB Center Sleeve 100mm BLK" 100mm sleeve. If you can also purchase the grease injection tool, works well! Ride in Northern UT.

  36. #36
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    Moonlander Bottom Bracket Issues

    Thank you so much.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  37. #37
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    The wine bottle cork was pretty custom I thought.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoreskillz View Post
    The part your missing now is the: Bearing Adjust Cap
    Thank you very much, Yoreskillz!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoreskillz View Post
    Bighit I ordered the "BBA3B Btm Brkt "A" Black" CK Bearing set and "PBB019 BB Center Sleeve 100mm BLK" 100mm sleeve. If you can also purchase the grease injection tool, works well! Ride in Northern UT.
    I've ordered a Chris King 100mm bottom bracket (steel one), the injection tool, installation tool and the grease gun. Hope they'll work well.
    Please, sorry for my English. It's not my native language.

  39. #39
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    i have a king in my moonlander and all works well with the black alloy spacers used on the surly cranks, i had a little issue of the outer edge of the king bottom bracket just rubbing/grinding against the spacer,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander Bottom Bracket Issues-king-bb.jpg  


  40. #40
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    Moonlander Bottom Bracket Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    2 road rides, 2 off road rides and one cyclocross race and mine is tight as can be.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yep time For the King!
    My bike looked like this today. Same issue as well. BB was full of water. Is there a way to get the bearing out of the cup to put in some fresh grease. Will do until I can contact Surly or order something else.

  41. #41
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    I used the Hope BB on my Moonlander and modified a CK center tube to fit it, King makes the center tubes to fit their stuff only without tweaking it.
    Changeover to 1X9 on a Moonlander using Blackspire stuff
    I LOVE ORANGE keep them coming, if I wanted to change I would have done it 50-60 years ago....

  42. #42
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    Moonlander Bottom Bracket Issues

    After things have had a couple days to sit the non drive side was completely seized and drive side was very gritty.

    Talked with Surly today. They say they are going to send me a new bottom bracket. It is sure nice to call a company and actually get a person on the other end that will help you. Good on you Surly!

  43. #43
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    just replaced my bb.
    the shell was full of water

    without an exit hole it's logical it'll help destroy the bb.

    will drilling a weep hole lead to rusting of the shell?
    or should i assume a heavily greased xt bb will be more water proof?


    dave
    Last edited by dtaylor; 03-15-2014 at 07:20 AM. Reason: i am an idiot
    spez roubaix
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  44. #44
    nothing to see here
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtaylor View Post
    just replaced my bb.
    the shell was full of water

    without an exit hole it's logical it'll help destroy the bb.

    will drilling a weep hole lead to rusting of the shell?
    or should i assume a heavily greased xt bb will be more water proof?


    dave
    Remove the bottom bracket, drill the shell with two holes (just inside where each BB cup finishes) and smear the inside of the shell with some waterproof grease.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  45. #45
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    gotta get time but will post pics when i do.

    dave
    spez roubaix
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    crux
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  46. #46
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    My BB is shot again, #2 this season....I'm going King for next fall...but I'm also replacing the surly crank, because I hate their rings....I'm on my second one of those as well. That 94BCD of the Surly Crank is out dated and tough to find rings for....so I'm going with the Race Face Crank, with a 104 BCD. Now I'll have Options, without paying the crazy prices for Surly Junk Rings.

    By the way that's my opinion on the rings derived from my experience and the two other guys I know that have Moonlaners with the same cranks and rings....One has replaced their 36 like I did due to it being destroyed, and the other is about to for the same reason. The rest of the bike is awesome though....
    Climbing Builds Character

  47. #47
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    Vack, I have the Surly OD cranks and endurance BB on our Mukluk's and they are horrible im on my second one as well.

    I emailed Salsa and in the response that they no nothing about the bad Surly BB.
    I thought yeah right. I'm just getting ready to have surgery on my neck so I won't be riding till maybe March but while I'm off healing I'm going to replace both BB and Cranksets on my wifes bike and mine.

    I've found other information about this BB not lasting, even a few on the Mukluk Facebook page have had problems, usually I know things brake expecially on dirt bikes, but when the manufacturer is telling me it possible it's just normal wear, screw that I've Bennett riding bikes longer than them ahats have been alive.

  48. #48
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    I'm still on my first BB from 2012. The cups shouldn't make a huge difference in bearing life, the seals aren't that special and there are regular sealed cartridge bearings inside.

    The BB shell should be faced to extend bearing life. Minimizing sideways play without actually stressing the bearings is also important when you install the crankset. A drain hole and/or center tube between the cups is necessary, depending on riding conditions.

  49. #49
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    Mine only lasted a year.

    LBS replaced with Enduro bearings for around $20. Been fine since.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  50. #50
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    Killed one each of the last two winters. Current one is a mildly corroded re-greased one from my touring bike. Will probably drill a drain hole next time I take the cranks off.

    I'm kind of curious about the method of moisture infiltration that attacks the bearings. Through the outer seal, between axle and plastic covers, water trickling in from the chain stay vents, or simply condensation inside the frame tubing.

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