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  1. #1
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    "Mid-fat" Knard or dirt wizard on kokopelli

    Not exactly fat but its mid fat. I tried this on the wheel and tire forum with no love hope you guys can help. Im considering ditching my front tubeless 29 ardent 2.4 on wtb 28mm speed disk for a knard (or Dirt Wizard if the surly folks release on time) on a dually. The point is to smooth out my ride a bit and stay rigid. I'm aware of the weight difference and the sidewall difference between the two knards. The question is how will it stand up to the kokopelli. Has anyone taken the 27 tpi (or its lighter cousin) on that trail for the entire thing? I have never been out there so I was hoping to get someones personal experience on the kokopelli or the equivalent. I wanted to go tubeless with the DW or knard and was aware of the issues of the knard loose beads and ghetto setups. So whatcha guys got? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    psycho cyclo addict
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    So you want to run a "29+" tire it sounds like.

    I run a 120tpi Knard 3.0 mounted to a Flow size Bontrager rim on the front of my SS. On this width rim, the tire comes out to 2.71" which is wide enough to clear my steel Niner fork legs and would also on a Niner carbon fork as far as I can tell.

    While I didn't get the full 3" of girth, 2.71 is a big volume improvement (both vertically and horizontally) over the Racing Ralph 2.4 that was on there before. Definitely more cushion than the old front tire and I've run it down to ~11 psi with no burping.

    I've run RaRa EVO 2.4 front tires in MD / PA (Michaux. Frederick Watershed/Gambrill, Patapsco State Park...) with no sidewall issues. That's why I went with the 120 tpi Knard. All of my tires are setup tubeless w/ Stan's.

  3. #3
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    Convert it to tubeless and you'll be fine. The Knard will roll a lot easier than the Dirt Wizard, but the wizard will probably grip better in the corners.

    Though Kokopelli is a lot of dirt road and slickrock, and the Knard would do great on that stuff.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

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    You guys are confident that the knard and DW can handle all the terrain? I heard that its a pretty solid mix of sand, baby heads, hard pack and slick rock. I know contact patch will be covered by those two. What about all that extra weight? Im SS and 150 miles is a long way to slang all that heft. Are they fast rolling?

  5. #5
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    If you were pushing an Ardent before it's not a huge difference. If I recall correctly the Ardent is like 800-850 grams and the 120 tpi knard is like 900g. 27tpi is more like 1100-1200g, maybe a little more? They roll at least as fast if not faster, I've ridden both and the Knard is a very fast rolling tire. The Dirt Wizard I think would be a lot more effort to push, but I can't say for certain.

    You're in for a big trip going SS on the Kokopelli. When I did it there was one SSer in our group of 90. I'm pretty sure he made the whole thing, but getting your tire pressure right is going to be critical. Make sure to get some miles in with the new setup to dial in your PSI before hand.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  6. #6
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    One more thing - Krampus wise, the tires aren't much extra weight, it's the 700 gram rims that get you. I bet the Wizards come in quite a bit heavier than the Knards, they're a lot more like Minions, which roll a lot slower.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  7. #7
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    Yeah, I'm no gift to SS but it's my only bike as of now so I have had a solid taste of it. SS and Rigid is all I ride its my only bike (saving for a Jeff jones). I'm concerned about the elevation more than anything. I'm training as much as possible ..... stupid weather. I'd be full of **** if I said I wasn't nervous. I'm trying to make my long rides as close as possible as the real thing, 35-50 miles lots of climbing with long straights and single track mixed in. I might be freaking out too much, thats why I was considering the high volume front tire.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    If you were pushing an Ardent before it's not a huge difference. If I recall correctly the Ardent is like 800-850 grams and the 120 tpi knard is like 900g. 27tpi is more like 1100-1200g, maybe a little more? They roll at least as fast if not faster, I've ridden both and the Knard is a very fast rolling tire. The Dirt Wizard I think would be a lot more effort to push, but I can't say for certain.

    You're in for a big trip going SS on the Kokopelli. When I did it there was one SSer in our group of 90. I'm pretty sure he made the whole thing, but getting your tire pressure right is going to be critical. Make sure to get some miles in with the new setup to dial in your PSI before hand.

    you do the bikerpelli ride?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philthyssvirgin View Post
    you do the bikerpelli ride?
    Yep. I rode through the winter and did some big rides like that and it went pretty OK. My biggest mistake was going too hard out of the gate. I was in the best shape of my life and thought I could ride crazy pace, turned out not so much. Save your legs, use a TON of chamois cream, ride as much as you can before hand, and pace yourself. You wanna be feeling good for that last climb up to Porcupine Rim.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    Yep. I rode through the winter and did some big rides like that and it went pretty OK. My biggest mistake was going too hard out of the gate. I was in the best shape of my life and thought I could ride crazy pace, turned out not so much. Save your legs, use a TON of chamois cream, ride as much as you can before hand, and pace yourself. You wanna be feeling good for that last climb up to Porcupine Rim.
    Im not too proud to sandbag. I just don't want to look like a chump. I'm curious if I should get the duallys and fresh ardents for the ride and skip the big volume.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philthyssvirgin View Post
    Im not too proud to sandbag. I just don't want to look like a chump. I'm curious if I should get the duallys and fresh ardents for the ride and skip the big volume.
    Ooh, interesting. Neither answer is wrong. I did it on 2.4 Ardents, and while they roll pretty good, they're probably overkill for the ride. You definitely want tubeless and strong sidewalls, but rolling resistance should really be high on your list for tires. There's just so much dirt road, especially on day 2.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  12. #12
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    how about razor rock's? rolls well but has side knobs for traction.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    how about razor rock's? rolls well but has side knobs for traction.
    I don't see them in 29, but I like the tread pattern.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  14. #14
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    If I were doing it tomorrow, I wouldn't kick Raceguard Thunder Burts out of bed:
    Thunder Burt - Schwalbe Professional Bike Tires
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    Yep. I rode through the winter and did some big rides like that and it went pretty OK. My biggest mistake was going too hard out of the gate. I was in the best shape of my life and thought I could ride crazy pace, turned out not so much. Save your legs, use a TON of chamois cream, ride as much as you can before hand, and pace yourself. You wanna be feeling good for that last climb up to Porcupine Rim.
    mmmmm chamois cream

  16. #16
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    I ran a 120tpi Knard tubeless on a Flow EX for a few months. I'm 225 and took it on trails with very jagged rocks. I kept thinking I'd puncture it, but I never did. It was a wonderful tire for rock crawling. It's amazing on rock gardens.

    I was fairly shocked a how well it rolled, considering the size. No problems there, I think it actually rolled better than my Hans Dampf 2.35.

    I could not get it to corner on hardpack though. It put me on the ground twice and I wasn't really pushing it either time. I experimented with pressure, and tried to find the cornering limit, but the breakaway was just too abrupt/unstable. I should point out that the Flow Ex is not the recommended width for this tire, and that may have played a role.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I experimented with pressure, and tried to find the cornering limit, but the breakaway was just too abrupt/unstable. I should point out that the Flow Ex is not the recommended width for this tire, and that may have played a role.
    Yeah, the cornering knobs are way the hell over on the Knard, and putting it on a smaller rim puts them even further up the lean angle. I could see where that might cause problems.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philthyssvirgin View Post
    The question is how will it stand up to the kokopelli. Has anyone taken the 27 tpi (or its lighter cousin) on that trail for the entire thing?
    Worth a read:

    Kokopelli's Trail in 4 days
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post

    Haaaa! I actually read that a month ago when I was thinking about doing this trip. I had completely forgot about it. Thanks for the heads up he's got some good info in there. That helps a lot.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philthyssvirgin View Post
    I might be freaking out too much.
    ^This^

    You will walk some, you will probably crash some, you'll hurt like crazy at times, and most likely you'll smile the whole way and love (almost) every minute of it. This will happen regardless of what front tire you use. I'm not saying that you shouldn't pay attention to your gear, I'm simply saying to pick something, go with it, and don't over think it. Throw a new tire on a few rides before you leave so you can make sure you like it, and then go have fun. If you tear a sidewall on one of the tires you've talked about it would probably have happened on any of the tires you've talked about.
    Whatever you choose you WILL have fun, unless you worry too much that you made the wrong choice.

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