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  1. #1
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    Meet Trailmaker #2 - The Kroozer!































    Coming soon to a trail near me. Ride report to follow.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  2. #2
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    That is badass! Good craftsmanship, I love the seatstay to dropout transition. Frame design is cool and paint looks great. Rock on.

  3. #3
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    What beautiful work.
    I like turtles

  4. #4
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    AWESOME!! I love the blue, and I love the lines of the frame.


  5. #5
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    The whole thing is RUINED by that spoke protector.

    TAKE IT OFF!

    Otherwise - beautiful!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeG View Post
    The whole thing is RUINED by that spoke protector.

    TAKE IT OFF!
    Yeh?...

    I used to think that too, until I lost about half a dozen drive side spokes 5 miles from the trail head. That was a long firggin walk.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  7. #7
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    Man, I wish I had the tools and skills to do that. The seatstays and transition to the dropouts are beautiful. Very well done Trailmaker.

  8. #8
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    Excellent craftmanship and a beautiful paint job. If my builds turned out that nice, I'd have a hard time riding them. I hope that first scratch doesn't hurt too much. Great job.

  9. #9
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    Nice looking bike with a difference. Like Riverbend I'd be scared to scratch it too
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  10. #10
    Fat & Single
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    Thats an absolute gem Trailmaker ! A work of art indeed.
    Trek 9.9 Superfly SL
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  11. #11
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    I concur with the other gents here in that it's a stellar build.


    Do let me know how the brakes get along as i have the same except with magura storm sl rotors and i'm having the turkey warble screech both F&R.
    plus+, plus+ = win:

  12. #12
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    A true craftsman! Thanks for sharing.

  13. #13
    Dudette
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    So beautiful!! Can't wait to hear how it rides!

  14. #14
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    Beautiful work John. Your shop looks cold.

    btw: I have spoke protectors on all of my bikes too. I've dropped a chain in between the cassette and spokes more than once. I now use Mavic spoke guards which are smaller but keep the chain from falling in there. Since everyone pulls them off of their wheels when buying at the shop, I get as many of them as I want for free.

  15. #15
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    Sweet!
    That's a lot of curves. Barely a straight run of tubing anywhere on that thing. Only the headtube stands in the way of the all-curvy frame.

    As for spoke guards, someone needs to make a small-diameter carbon one so they're not so "fred".

  16. #16
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    I don't mean to detract from the OP, but I would like to note that the Mavic spoke guard IS small. It's plastic though, but I can't imagine there would be any significant weight savings if it were carbon.

    I hear a lot of people say that they don't need spoke guards because their derailleur is adjusted correctly, but it only takes one smack on a rock or log for that to no longer hold true.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Meet Trailmaker #2 - The Kroozer!-dsc06177.jpg  


  17. #17
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  18. #18
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    OK, JoeG;

    Just for you, I fixed it. I never really thought about it that much, to be honest. I just knew I "needed" one there. One of those little compromises you have to make sometimes. I looked at it a bit, and realized it is only the tight area right at the base of the spokes that is vulnerable. The portion outside the diameter of the cassette was redundant, so I trimmed it off.

    NVPhatty - Brake howl indeed. On my other Fatty (Trailmaker #1 - the Humvee) I get the howl from the front brakes only. I am convinced it is the fork that is to blame. Heavy braking is fine, but light braking sets up a strong resonance. Sometime I will get around to filling a fork leg with expanding foam and see if that cures it. Beyond that, it is down to playing the rotor game to see if there is a design that doesn't cause the problem. I have these brakes on all my suspension bikes and they don't do it.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  19. #19
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    Awesome work, it's nice to see an original fat bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    OK, JoeG;

    Brake howl indeed. On my other Fatty (Trailmaker #1 - the Humvee) I get the howl from the front brakes only. I am convinced it is the fork that is to blame. Heavy braking is fine, but light braking sets up a strong resonance. Sometime I will get around to filling a fork leg with expanding foam and see if that cures it. Beyond that, it is down to playing the rotor game to see if there is a design that doesn't cause the problem. I have these brakes on all my suspension bikes and they don't do it.
    Just FYI, filling the fork with expandable foam likely won't fix it. Adding damping material to the fork can help, but that's not very practical due to weight and limited access. Assuming your brakes are set up properly and rotors are straight, I've found the easiest way to get rid of noise is to swap to a different brand of brakes.
    Taiwan could probably TIG weld a ham sandwich to a dictionary these days, but its been a while since they were doing brazing.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    OK,
    NVPhatty - Brake howl indeed. On my other Fatty (Trailmaker #1 - the Humvee) I get the howl from the front brakes only. I am convinced it is the fork that is to blame. Heavy braking is fine, but light braking sets up a strong resonance. Sometime I will get around to filling a fork leg with expanding foam and see if that cures it. Beyond that, it is down to playing the rotor game to see if there is a design that doesn't cause the problem. I have these brakes on all my suspension bikes and they don't do it.
    ahhhh ha you touch on an aspect i've given thought to as well. During my rides i pay more and more attention when possible to fork (WB snowpac) deflection and frankly it's serious. That said my rear setup does the same with minimal or no deflection when applied. Is pad/rotor compatibility a viable issue or should any combo function properly?? I've been through 2 semi metallic pad sets F&R with more diligent break-in with the 2nd set but with no success. I've considered organics with new rotors as an option but to think of the cost to experiment is mind numbing.
    plus+, plus+ = win:

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewQ View Post
    Assuming your brakes are set up properly and rotors are straight, I've found the easiest way to get rid of noise is to swap to a different brand of brakes.
    Certainly an option but in all honesty can one purchase such a product and have a reasonable expectation they will function properly without resorting to 'buying another setup' or two??
    plus+, plus+ = win:

  22. #22
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    Hey;

    I have run nothing but Hayes brakes for many years. All brakes make a fuss at one time or another, but I have always been able to remedy them with basic reset of the system (scuff, clean, align, re-bed). I have not had this problem previously. The only operative difference here is the fork, hence my assumption that it is the culprit. The fact that you can also feel the vibration, hear the "moan", and see the fork resonating lends more support to the theory. I can very easily fill the left leg with expanding foam, given all the bottle bosses available. It doesn't weigh enough to worry about.

    We'll see. If this new ride does the same thing, it will more or less prove my theory.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  23. #23
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    Beautiful bike TrailMaker, I guess you now have time to start on mine.

    I have an 8" rotor on my FS bike. The first one that I put on made so much noise I found myself not using the front brake. I talked to the manufacturer at Interbike and he told me that no matter what he has tried, from grinding to heating to hammering, some discs howl. He told me to send it back and he would send me a replacement. The replacement has been noise free for 6+ years.
    Last edited by crashtestdummy; 02-02-2013 at 04:29 PM.

  24. #24
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    Meet Trailmaker #2 - The Kroozer!

    Absolutely gorgeous!

  25. #25
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    I'm impressed - great work!...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    Certainly an option but in all honesty can one purchase such a product and have a reasonable expectation they will function properly without resorting to 'buying another setup' or two??
    Agreed that you shouldn't have to buy new ones, but the reality is some brakes are very prone to making noise. Some only make noise with certain frames/forks. Brake noise is actually a fairly complicated phenomenon to diagnose & resolve. The fact that bike brakes place on emphasis on light weight only compounds the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    I've been through 2 semi metallic pad sets F&R with more diligent break-in with the 2nd set but with no success. I've considered organics with new rotors as an option but to think of the cost to experiment is mind numbing.
    This was my point. When you look at how much you can spend to attempt to fix the noise by throwing parts at the problem, sometimes you come out ahead by buying a different set of brakes that are known to be quiet. Best of luck, whatever route you choose.
    Taiwan could probably TIG weld a ham sandwich to a dictionary these days, but its been a while since they were doing brazing.

  27. #27
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    That is gorgeous. I wanted to do that exact color combo on my pugs wheels.

    I think it would be even cooler with Black Floyds.

    Cheers!
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  28. #28
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    Awesome build! Di Vinci Fatness
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  29. #29
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    The Christening............ from HE!!

    Hey;

    The bike rides great, what little I was able to ride it. I was a little surprised that the self steer that was not evident at all even on pavement became noticeable on the trail at speed. Still, it is nothing that cannot be dealt with, and I suppose is somewhat endemic of the large tires. All was well with the world!

    I've spent 7 blissful years riding bikes WITHOUT flimsy replaceable derailleur hangers. My Heckler, RIP9, and Humvee have solid mount DOs, the first two of the three replaceable, and I've grown to love them. In that time, I've only had ONE problem with a derailleur; I somehow rode over and flipped a 6" piece of stick into the jockey wheels and sheared the mount bolt clean off on my RIP9 on it's 4th ride. I got a junk derailleur from the LBS, scarfed the pivot bolt for a repair, and ride that same derailleur today. That one headache has been more than made up for by the utter LACK of constant shifting problems I've had on bikes with replaceable hangers that bend every time you look at them funny.

    One of the things I was very ambivalent about was using these Paragon low mount DOs, ONLY for the fact that they use alloy RD hangers. It took exactly ONE RIDE to make me HATE that decision. They are beautiful DOs, but... He!!, it was my fault. I've gotten spoiled by the durability of having a solid mount. It wasn't 2 miles into this maiden voyage when a branch went into the chain and SNAP. Just like glass. Didn't even have time to stop. POS! I still don't believe what happened next.

    So, I did what any hard-nosed survivalist MTBer would do. I picked a gear, shortened the (brand new!) chain, and rode single speed. I don't have the FD hooked up yet due to a lack of cable housing. I reasoned I didn't want to go too big for the climbs, but I was sort of dissing my gear choice, as Granny 3 was a little short for cruising the flats. Never in a million years would it have occurred to me that what was about to happen would happen. It just seems so improbable.

    Every time I've done one of these bodges for friends that have trashed their derailleurs, they usually end up either skipping horribly under power due to lack of chain wrap, or shifting their way down the cassette because there is nothing to keep gravity from letting the chain do just that. I actually had to take the wheel out a bit to get the chain on, and when it was all installed, I had less than 1" of chain deflection, likely closer to .5" It looked like a great setup, and worked just fine for about a mile along the river bottom.

    Eventually you have to climb, and as I laid in the first few power strokes and hit the meat of the climb, the chain incongruously shifted from 3rd to 2nd. Something had to give, and it sure as F did.....







    Never in a million years would I have guessed that this was probable, or "even possible." I still don't believe it. Guess that's what I get for building something so pretty.....................
    Last edited by TrailMaker; 02-03-2013 at 06:08 PM.
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  30. #30
    gone walk about
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    oh my sac this just blows!!
    plus+, plus+ = win:

  31. #31
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    ssssssssssssssssssssssss.......................... .....

    Anybody got a extra 170mm axle lying around?
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  32. #32
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    Wow! I was just about to comment on how awesome the bike is when I got to the end I see the horror. What a buzz kill for a first ride. Is the frame bent? What kind of hub is that?

    The bike is awesome, even more amazing is that it is only your second build. I followed it over in the frame forum.

    You have inspired me. I am going to work on my time management skills. I have had tubing since June of 2010 and have not done much more than a couple of drawings. Thank you.

    Looking forward to the second ride report.

    Cheers,
    Steven
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    ssssssssssssssssssssssss.......................... .....

    Anybody got a extra 170mm axle lying around?
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  33. #33
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    Thanks Steven;

    Don't take any inspiration from this ride of mine, that's for sure! As for frame builds, get going already, before your tubing desiccates. Just get going. There are enough helpful guys on the forum to get you through. I will need to pay it forward for all of the help that my mentor gave me, so I'm ready with whatever I can offer. Yes, it is only my second build, but I've been fabricating all kinds of stuff for years. Only the bike specific stuff was foreign to me.

    I'm not sure I even remember what kind of hub it was, but in thinking back I believe the rear one is a Salsa, which I think means Formula. The front one had no name on it, but it is a generic 135mm MTB rear hub so it could be anything. The DO is definitely bent, but that can be straightened, hopefully without too much damage to the finish. I think that is the extent of the frame damage. If I'm lucky, all I'll need is a new axle for the rear. I can straighten the skewer. I hope the freehub and beyond is not affected.

    Buzzkill...... indeed. A very apt description!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  34. #34
    Dudette
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  35. #35
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    Dude.

    You know that vein that can pop out in one's forehead? When you're really angry?

    My hands got sweaty just looking at that damage photo.

    FFFFFFFU--

    ...so loud that the neighbor's dog gets scared.

    I'm really sorry man.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  36. #36
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    holeeeee....
    did the broken axle beget the frame tweak or vice versa?!

    easily the most distressing "first ride" shots I've ever seen.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  37. #37
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    Hey;

    I think it simply shifted to 2nd gear. Since the chain is too short for that pair, something had to give. The axle collapsed, taking the DO with it. Maybe I have more leg power than I thought....

    Why couldn't the f'n chain just snap?
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  38. #38
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    Sorry to see that. It must really burn to see a beautiful bike mangled like that.

    But you've just answered one of my reservations about the larger OLDs appearing on fat bikes. I've nothing against the width, but why are we using axles of the same diameter that were in use in the 1900s on bikes with OLDs of 110 and 120mm and skinny tyres? They were never jumped and didn't have to deal with the sort of forces input from a fat tyre.

    I'd like to see a minimum of 14mm (like BMX) at the rear, or something like the sizes and types used on a DH bike.

    It would probably be a bit too adventurous for the fatbike industry to come up with its own standard, but considering that soon we'll be seeing fat AM and possibly DH bikes, it may be time for it.

    Hope to see this bike back on its wheels soon - don't be deterred.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Yeh?...

    I used to think that too, until I lost about half a dozen drive side spokes 5 miles from the trail head. That was a long firggin walk.
    +1 to this

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlikedog View Post
    +1 to this
    Yeh;

    I should have mentioned, it was even longer in cleats!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  41. #41
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    Hey;

    Here's a shout out to Velo and his previous post. This thing just looks tremendously fragile. Granted, it may not have been designed for the type of extreme forces it saw in this fluky incident, but it just seems impossibly frail nonetheless. I'm seriously thinking I'm liking the look of the steel axle option for a replacement!

    Frame straightened. My dummy fixturing axle slips right in clean as a whistle. Very minimal loss of paint. Had some single stage paint on the shelf that was a dead ringer. A Porsche color, no less! A couple of well placed dabs did me just fine. Now, the old game begins - waiting for parts......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Meet Trailmaker #2 - The Kroozer!-kroozerbuggeredaxle1.jpg  

    Meet Trailmaker #2 - The Kroozer!-kroozerbuggeredaxle2.jpg  

    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  42. #42
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    Wow! That is really shocking damage.

    I'm glad that it sounds like you were able to bend the dropouts back pretty easily. I hope that you're back to riding it real soon.

    And I'm relieved that the damage wasn't caused by a chain thrown to the inside!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Hey;

    Here's a shout out to Velo and his previous post. This thing just looks tremendously fragile. Granted, it may not have been designed for the type of extreme forces it saw in this fluky incident, but it just seems impossibly frail nonetheless. I'm seriously thinking I'm liking the look of the steel axle option for a replacement!...
    Thanks for the pic. I'm pleased the frame straightened ok.

    I've been pondering your axle failure - I can't think of any alternative with a larger diameter axle. Does anyone know of one?

    Edit: I hadn't previously looked closely at the Hope Fatsno hubs - they can use a 12mm Maxle.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Meet Trailmaker #2 - The Kroozer!-hopefatsnopair-productpicture.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Velobike; 02-05-2013 at 01:45 AM.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  44. #44
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    Well that sucks big time.

    So sorry for your loss. I'm guessing the dork disc wouldn't have had much impact on that issue!

    So what's next? Patching up or starting over? Beautiful thing about steel, especially with skills as fine as yours, pretty infinitely repairable.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  45. #45
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    Sorry to see the damage. I'm glad you are able to rebuild the bike again though. All this talk of derailleurs being ripped off and bikes being damaged as a result makes me happy I have an IGH fatty and an IGH MTB for exploring without fear of ripping stuff of.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Sorry to see the damage. I'm glad you are able to rebuild the bike again though. All this talk of derailleurs being ripped off and bikes being damaged as a result makes me happy I have an IGH fatty and an IGH MTB for exploring without fear of ripping stuff of.
    I hear ya, Bro;

    It's a heck of a lot of coin (out of my budget!), but it does have its advantages!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  47. #47
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    Hey;

    I have always suspected it, but I've found out for certain that I am extra special and talented. I am the first person that Salsa is aware of to trash one of their aluminum 170mm axles. Lucky me!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Hey;

    I have always suspected it, but I've found out for certain that I am extra special and talented. I am the first person that Salsa is aware of to trash one of their aluminum 170mm axles. Lucky me!
    Hopefully this means they will award you a prize of a nice shiny replacement.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  49. #49
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    First......BRILLIANT FRAME !

    Second......sorry to see the axle failure

    Third......WELL DONE for fixing it
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Hopefully this means they will award you a prize of a nice shiny replacement.
    Hey;

    I'm finding out that Salsa is a great company to deal with. Really impressive CS, and some great folks.
    Thumbs Up to Salsa!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

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