View Poll Results: Would you buy a studded fat tire similar to the Larry?

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  • I could use studded fat tires on a regular basis and would purchase them if available

    59 64.84%
  • No need for studs, where I ride the snow is always perfect, I only see ice at the skating rink.

    18 19.78%
  • No studs for me, the extra weight would ruin the ride.

    8 8.79%
  • Made my own studded tires, don’t need to buy them.

    1 1.10%
  • Made my own but would like to purchase a high quality manufactured tire with more float.

    5 5.49%
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  1. #1
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    Manufactured Studded Larry Variant...

    I contacted Surly about a studded Larry this was the reply:

    “We don’t have any plans to added studded tires to the mix as they add quite a bit of rotational weight and they kind of defeat the purpose of floating on top of the snow.
    Some folks have made their own studded tires with marginal success and they have all gone back to regular Endomorphs and Larrys.”


    I’m curious about other people’s thoughts on this more so than the poll results. So, please leave a comment pro or con even if you don’t partake in the poll.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    I'd be much more interested in a tire made out of the rubber compounds used in studless car tires like Blizzaks. On my car they work totally awsome. I resisted them for years and finally made the switch and they work basically just as good as studs did. If they worked as well on a bike that would be sweet.

  3. #3
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    I ride a different bike when I need studs

  4. #4
    is buachail foighneach me
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    A good quality studded mtb tire costs $100+. The higher quality endos and Larrys cost $100+. Would an endo with high quality, carbide studs cost $200? That would be beyond excessive for me, and probably not worth it for most. I would rather see another tread pattern first. Something like a Mountain King maybe.

  5. #5
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    Up here in the north of Scotland we're in much the same latitude as Alaska, but we get the moisture of the North Atlantic dumped on us regularly. This means our trails can change from snow to wet slick ice and back to snow daily.

    A studded fat tyre would be a big help. It's not worth changing a tyre for a few hours and then back again.
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  6. #6
    mighty sailin' man
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    yes more fat tire options please!
    but the studded version isn't one I'd want

    For shoreline ice I rather be on the squish. Beats me up too bad on the rigid
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    wheelies, beyond being the best way over any sort of obstacle, both above or below, are are the steedliest expresstion of joy

  7. #7
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I'd rather see a true 4.0 (or bigger) instead of a 3.7 masquerading as a 4.0.

  8. #8
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    I've been in the tire business for over 30 years, I own a tire company. There, credentials established.

    The Larry/Endomorph casing is not substantial enough to carry studs. With any build up to support studding the tire would become like a DH tire. Think Gazzi with buttresses.

    Narrow tires work better on ICE, i.e. flotation is not good on ice. The profile of a snow specific tire is VERY round and only the center 30% of the footprint would actually make a difference in friction in true icy conditions. Ice riding is much more comfortable on a narrow fully studded tire on a stock 28mm rim (or Snocat).

    And finally, a manufactured studded tire would be VERY expensive because of limited production runs.
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  9. #9
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    If I don't want to travel on icy roads I have to transport my pug in my car to get to trails. Really a bit of a bummer as trails aren't too far from here but there is a lot of bad icy roads. At 59 with two torn rotator cuffs, I really, really don't wan to fall on a shoulder but I refuse to stop riding so I would love having studs on my pugsley. Seriously soft rubber would be an option too...the current tires are, I'm sure, good all around tires and it's quite likely the market isn't big enough for specialty winter fat tires...

  10. #10
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    Where I ride in the Northeast, there is as much ice as there is snow. I ride a fatback with tungsten studs in the Larry and the Endomorph. If I had not been able to stud the tires, I would've sold the fat bike because it would be far too dangerous to ride around here. The studs add approximately 150 g of rotational weight which is insignificant considering the weight of the wheels. I have had no difficulty with the tire casings supporting the studs. My only complaint is the extra measures I have to take to keep the back of the studs from eroding into the tubes. So as far as the opinions that the studs add too much weight and/or the tire casings cannot support the studs, I can confidently say they are incorrect. I think there would be a huge market for studded fat tires and would welcome them to the market. As far as Surly's remark that everybody who studded fat tires switched back to studless, they are also incorrect.

  11. #11
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Originally posted by mtnbikerx: Narrow tires work better on ICE, i.e. flotation is not good on ice. The profile of a snow specific tire is VERY round and only the center 30% of the footprint would actually make a difference in friction in true icy conditions. Ice riding is much more comfortable on a narrow fully studded tire on a stock 28mm rim (or Snocat).
    Well, this has not been my experience what so ever. I tried 26 inch studded tires and 700c studded tires and neither will save you bacon in all conditions. At least not on the streets where I ride.

    The best thing I have tried is a 2.4" 29"er tire on a 35mm rim at about 15-20 psi. Keep it vertical and I can crawl across any ice I have encountered.

    I am expecting my Mukluk to perform similarly.

  12. #12
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    "I have had no difficulty with the tire casings supporting the studs."

    "My only complaint is the extra measures I have to take to keep the back of the studs from eroding into the tubes."

    Reread and restate first sentence!

  13. #13
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    I'd rather see Nokian release a 26 x 3.0 studded tire with a rounded profile (like their freddies or hakkas, not the extremes which are much more squared off). While it wouldn't have the float of a Larry, that really isn't the point as when in mixed icy conditions, rarely is the "float" the concern. A tire this big could be used with most of the fatbike rims out there (probably not the 100's, maybe not the Darryls), and it would be usable with a larger subset of bikes (like the 1x1 or Troll within just Surly's line). Given that a true studded fatbike tire would run $150+, I think this is a more logical business solution too.

  14. #14
    will rant for food
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    I am tired of the "use snow tires for snow, ice tires for ice" position. I ride both. I want both. I want one snow bike in consistent operation.

    I studded my Larry tires myself, and yes it was a chore, but they perform awesome.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    I'd be much more interested in a tire made out of the rubber compounds used in studless car tires like Blizzaks. On my car they work totally awsome. I resisted them for years and finally made the switch and they work basically just as good as studs did. If they worked as well on a bike that would be sweet.
    That would interesting to see. The compound really does make a difference. They used that one rain compound, I forget what it's called and made a slick, and it outperformed a tire made with a standard compound in the tread pattern of the normal tire.

    I self studded some Larry's, I have used them yet. I self studded some Spyder's last year. Work just awesome on the frozen lake at 5psi. Huge foot print. They were like velcro.

  16. #16
    How much does it weigh?
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    Where is the option for "I ride very carefully on ice, and do not need studded tires"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Well, this has not been my experience what so ever. I tried 26 inch studded tires and 700c studded tires and neither will save you bacon in all conditions. At least not on the streets where I ride.

    The best thing I have tried is a 2.4" 29"er tire on a 35mm rim at about 15-20 psi. Keep it vertical and I can crawl across any ice I have encountered.

    I am expecting my Mukluk to perform similarly.

    Keeping it vertical only works when the ice is horizontal. Unfortunately out in the wild that is not always so. Offcamber ice requires studs for me which I don't have on the Fatback so down I go sometimes.

  18. #18
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    Keeping it vertical only works when the ice is horizontal. Unfortunately out in the wild that is not always so. Offcamber ice requires studs for me which I don't have on the Fatback so down I go sometimes.
    Try it fixed. Made all the difference in the world for me, and this was on uneven, wet ice with 2.0 29"er tires.

    You don't go fast, (well, at least I don't ), but I go.

  19. #19
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    I don't quite follow your statement; I re-read the post. The tire casing supports the studs just fine; I've had no displacement of the studs. The only challenge is covering the head of the studs (which are on the inside of the tire) so they don't erode the tube. Part of the problem was I was using super-light Schalbe tubes; I'm now using a little beafier q-tubes.

  20. #20
    will rant for food
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    After re-reading this thread, my last post was a bit rude, pardon me.

    As far as the casing thing, I think from a manufacturing standpoint, the lack of lug depth and breadth is a fair criticism. It would need to be a different tire, and I can understand if Surly / Innova is hesitant to believe there's a big market for it (big enough to justify the investment).

  21. #21
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    Uhh… I am in California.
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  22. #22
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    I've studded plenty of tires w/ sheetmetal screws over the years, the most recent a pair of Endo's. I've had the best results by choosing the shortest screws possible so that the tips are no more than 1/8" (less if poss.). They work great in the mountains... on or off the snow, ice, gravel, dirt... whatever... The problem I run into is commuting. They wear down quickly on pavement and though they're cheap to replace it's a hassle! I'm currently looking at different brands of screws trying to find the hardest ones available. To Bad about Surly's opinion on the subject. Quite dissapointing to those of us who live where the conditions include ice or at least sections of ice... allmost allways! It's true, when it's dry and really cold, ice can be plenty grippy enough to ride a fat bike. But when the temp rises ice gets slick - Period! I don't care what compound your using, how fat your tires or rims are or what your tire pressure is, when there's water on top of ice your either tip-toeing or going down (or using studs and cruising along). Maybe acceptable as part of the adventure on a recreational ride, but not on the commute. And in an area like the pacific northwest where the weather varies so much, stud's make the difference between riding and not riding too much of the time to ignore. Personaly, even rec. riding in my area, I've rarely gone on a snow ride where I didn't encounter Ice. I skipped commuting 3 days last week because it was to slick for studless and to much pavement showing for sheet metal "studs". One icey morning last week I got passed by a cx bike w/ studded Nokian's... Yes I can spend some more money on studded tires for my old reg. mtn. bike or my cross... but to me it seems kind of shame that niether of my fat bikes can cut it when it really gets slick. The biggest bummer of all for me is the drivin' the bike to the trail-head thing!!! I HATE driving my bike to the trail-head's that are on the edge of town or nearby. Lock's you into coming back to the same trail-head instead of a big loop. I would like to be able to leave my house on my frickin' $3000,00 plus fat bike and go some where! I want to be able to effectively travel across pavement, dirt, ice, snow all on the same ride. As for the weight argument, I'm not buyin' it at all. If you have to tip-toe through 50% of the ride to save some weight... and the guy w/ the extra weight is miles ahead, carrying a cadence right on through, than the extra weight was warranted. Unfortunately, in our area at least, the lack of a workable production studded tire may be the reason fat bikes are having such a hard time catchinng on. We get so much ice around here they just don't work that great. and most folk's don't have the gumption to make they're own. I've got no problem paying $200.00 a tire either- if they allow me the freedom to grab my FB and go, whatever the winter condition, it'll be worth it. Last Fri. it snowed about 8", then by sat. afternoon it was raining and by this morning it was clear and 29F ICE,ICE,ICE! Wtih water running over it on off camber curved bridges... I couldn't skip another day so I went for it. Sure, it was do-able, but it took me three times as long. It was almost exactly 50% ice and 50% wet/dry pavement... oh, and did I mention the frozen solid slush! YES, PLEASE! Surly, Nokian, whoever, somebody make us a "Nokian styled" (stud wise I mean) fat bike tire. The notion that they wont be usefull and/or that people don't want 'em is BOGUS! Might be true if we all lived in AK or MN (no offense anybody). Couple weeks ago I had both bikes up at our local ski area for after-ski fun. On the slicker sections of compact snow & ice - roads & etc. between the lodge/bar/RV lot/nordic track, the bike w/ the studs did circles around the lighter "studless" bike... no matter who was riding! Period!

  23. #23
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    “We don’t have any plans to added studded tires to the mix as they add quite a bit of rotational weight and they kind of defeat the purpose of floating on top of the snow.
    Some folks have made their own studded tires with marginal success and they have all gone back to regular Endomorphs and Larrys.”

    [/QUOTE]

    This comment is Bogus! More people don't make studded tires 'cause they're a beotch to make, not to mention the risk of ruining a 100 dollar tire(s). And Endo's and Larry's are all we have to go back to. This comment could have only been made by someone with little or no experience w/ "slick" ice. Want to sell more FB's in Wa. and Or.? Give us a production, carbide studded tire!

  24. #24
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    I would not have much need for studded fat tires. When things get icy, the trails are also icy and hard and I can ride with another bike. Hence I would probably not buy studded fat tires. I understand the need, though, but I fear they would be horribly expensive.
    My bike blog: www.yetirides.com

  25. #25
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    Well said, Ward!
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

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