View Poll Results: Would you buy a studded fat tire similar to the Larry?

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  • I could use studded fat tires on a regular basis and would purchase them if available

    59 64.84%
  • No need for studs, where I ride the snow is always perfect, I only see ice at the skating rink.

    18 19.78%
  • No studs for me, the extra weight would ruin the ride.

    8 8.79%
  • Made my own studded tires, don’t need to buy them.

    1 1.10%
  • Made my own but would like to purchase a high quality manufactured tire with more float.

    5 5.49%
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  1. #1
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    Manufactured Studded Larry Variant...

    I contacted Surly about a studded Larry this was the reply:

    “We don’t have any plans to added studded tires to the mix as they add quite a bit of rotational weight and they kind of defeat the purpose of floating on top of the snow.
    Some folks have made their own studded tires with marginal success and they have all gone back to regular Endomorphs and Larrys.”


    I’m curious about other people’s thoughts on this more so than the poll results. So, please leave a comment pro or con even if you don’t partake in the poll.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    I'd be much more interested in a tire made out of the rubber compounds used in studless car tires like Blizzaks. On my car they work totally awsome. I resisted them for years and finally made the switch and they work basically just as good as studs did. If they worked as well on a bike that would be sweet.

  3. #3
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    I ride a different bike when I need studs

  4. #4
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    A good quality studded mtb tire costs $100+. The higher quality endos and Larrys cost $100+. Would an endo with high quality, carbide studs cost $200? That would be beyond excessive for me, and probably not worth it for most. I would rather see another tread pattern first. Something like a Mountain King maybe.

  5. #5
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    Up here in the north of Scotland we're in much the same latitude as Alaska, but we get the moisture of the North Atlantic dumped on us regularly. This means our trails can change from snow to wet slick ice and back to snow daily.

    A studded fat tyre would be a big help. It's not worth changing a tyre for a few hours and then back again.
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  6. #6
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    I'd rather see a true 4.0 (or bigger) instead of a 3.7 masquerading as a 4.0.

  7. #7
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    I've been in the tire business for over 30 years, I own a tire company. There, credentials established.

    The Larry/Endomorph casing is not substantial enough to carry studs. With any build up to support studding the tire would become like a DH tire. Think Gazzi with buttresses.

    Narrow tires work better on ICE, i.e. flotation is not good on ice. The profile of a snow specific tire is VERY round and only the center 30% of the footprint would actually make a difference in friction in true icy conditions. Ice riding is much more comfortable on a narrow fully studded tire on a stock 28mm rim (or Snocat).

    And finally, a manufactured studded tire would be VERY expensive because of limited production runs.
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  8. #8
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    If I don't want to travel on icy roads I have to transport my pug in my car to get to trails. Really a bit of a bummer as trails aren't too far from here but there is a lot of bad icy roads. At 59 with two torn rotator cuffs, I really, really don't wan to fall on a shoulder but I refuse to stop riding so I would love having studs on my pugsley. Seriously soft rubber would be an option too...the current tires are, I'm sure, good all around tires and it's quite likely the market isn't big enough for specialty winter fat tires...

  9. #9
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    Where I ride in the Northeast, there is as much ice as there is snow. I ride a fatback with tungsten studs in the Larry and the Endomorph. If I had not been able to stud the tires, I would've sold the fat bike because it would be far too dangerous to ride around here. The studs add approximately 150 g of rotational weight which is insignificant considering the weight of the wheels. I have had no difficulty with the tire casings supporting the studs. My only complaint is the extra measures I have to take to keep the back of the studs from eroding into the tubes. So as far as the opinions that the studs add too much weight and/or the tire casings cannot support the studs, I can confidently say they are incorrect. I think there would be a huge market for studded fat tires and would welcome them to the market. As far as Surly's remark that everybody who studded fat tires switched back to studless, they are also incorrect.

  10. #10
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Originally posted by mtnbikerx: Narrow tires work better on ICE, i.e. flotation is not good on ice. The profile of a snow specific tire is VERY round and only the center 30% of the footprint would actually make a difference in friction in true icy conditions. Ice riding is much more comfortable on a narrow fully studded tire on a stock 28mm rim (or Snocat).
    Well, this has not been my experience what so ever. I tried 26 inch studded tires and 700c studded tires and neither will save you bacon in all conditions. At least not on the streets where I ride.

    The best thing I have tried is a 2.4" 29"er tire on a 35mm rim at about 15-20 psi. Keep it vertical and I can crawl across any ice I have encountered.

    I am expecting my Mukluk to perform similarly.
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  11. #11
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    "I have had no difficulty with the tire casings supporting the studs."

    "My only complaint is the extra measures I have to take to keep the back of the studs from eroding into the tubes."

    Reread and restate first sentence!

  12. #12
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    I'd rather see Nokian release a 26 x 3.0 studded tire with a rounded profile (like their freddies or hakkas, not the extremes which are much more squared off). While it wouldn't have the float of a Larry, that really isn't the point as when in mixed icy conditions, rarely is the "float" the concern. A tire this big could be used with most of the fatbike rims out there (probably not the 100's, maybe not the Darryls), and it would be usable with a larger subset of bikes (like the 1x1 or Troll within just Surly's line). Given that a true studded fatbike tire would run $150+, I think this is a more logical business solution too.

  13. #13
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    I am tired of the "use snow tires for snow, ice tires for ice" position. I ride both. I want both. I want one snow bike in consistent operation.

    I studded my Larry tires myself, and yes it was a chore, but they perform awesome.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    I'd be much more interested in a tire made out of the rubber compounds used in studless car tires like Blizzaks. On my car they work totally awsome. I resisted them for years and finally made the switch and they work basically just as good as studs did. If they worked as well on a bike that would be sweet.
    That would interesting to see. The compound really does make a difference. They used that one rain compound, I forget what it's called and made a slick, and it outperformed a tire made with a standard compound in the tread pattern of the normal tire.

    I self studded some Larry's, I have used them yet. I self studded some Spyder's last year. Work just awesome on the frozen lake at 5psi. Huge foot print. They were like velcro.

  15. #15
    How much does it weigh?
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    Where is the option for "I ride very carefully on ice, and do not need studded tires"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Well, this has not been my experience what so ever. I tried 26 inch studded tires and 700c studded tires and neither will save you bacon in all conditions. At least not on the streets where I ride.

    The best thing I have tried is a 2.4" 29"er tire on a 35mm rim at about 15-20 psi. Keep it vertical and I can crawl across any ice I have encountered.

    I am expecting my Mukluk to perform similarly.

    Keeping it vertical only works when the ice is horizontal. Unfortunately out in the wild that is not always so. Offcamber ice requires studs for me which I don't have on the Fatback so down I go sometimes.

  17. #17
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    Keeping it vertical only works when the ice is horizontal. Unfortunately out in the wild that is not always so. Offcamber ice requires studs for me which I don't have on the Fatback so down I go sometimes.
    Try it fixed. Made all the difference in the world for me, and this was on uneven, wet ice with 2.0 29"er tires.

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  18. #18
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    I don't quite follow your statement; I re-read the post. The tire casing supports the studs just fine; I've had no displacement of the studs. The only challenge is covering the head of the studs (which are on the inside of the tire) so they don't erode the tube. Part of the problem was I was using super-light Schalbe tubes; I'm now using a little beafier q-tubes.

  19. #19
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    After re-reading this thread, my last post was a bit rude, pardon me.

    As far as the casing thing, I think from a manufacturing standpoint, the lack of lug depth and breadth is a fair criticism. It would need to be a different tire, and I can understand if Surly / Innova is hesitant to believe there's a big market for it (big enough to justify the investment).

  20. #20
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    Uhh… I am in California.
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  21. #21
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    I've studded plenty of tires w/ sheetmetal screws over the years, the most recent a pair of Endo's. I've had the best results by choosing the shortest screws possible so that the tips are no more than 1/8" (less if poss.). They work great in the mountains... on or off the snow, ice, gravel, dirt... whatever... The problem I run into is commuting. They wear down quickly on pavement and though they're cheap to replace it's a hassle! I'm currently looking at different brands of screws trying to find the hardest ones available. To Bad about Surly's opinion on the subject. Quite dissapointing to those of us who live where the conditions include ice or at least sections of ice... allmost allways! It's true, when it's dry and really cold, ice can be plenty grippy enough to ride a fat bike. But when the temp rises ice gets slick - Period! I don't care what compound your using, how fat your tires or rims are or what your tire pressure is, when there's water on top of ice your either tip-toeing or going down (or using studs and cruising along). Maybe acceptable as part of the adventure on a recreational ride, but not on the commute. And in an area like the pacific northwest where the weather varies so much, stud's make the difference between riding and not riding too much of the time to ignore. Personaly, even rec. riding in my area, I've rarely gone on a snow ride where I didn't encounter Ice. I skipped commuting 3 days last week because it was to slick for studless and to much pavement showing for sheet metal "studs". One icey morning last week I got passed by a cx bike w/ studded Nokian's... Yes I can spend some more money on studded tires for my old reg. mtn. bike or my cross... but to me it seems kind of shame that niether of my fat bikes can cut it when it really gets slick. The biggest bummer of all for me is the drivin' the bike to the trail-head thing!!! I HATE driving my bike to the trail-head's that are on the edge of town or nearby. Lock's you into coming back to the same trail-head instead of a big loop. I would like to be able to leave my house on my frickin' $3000,00 plus fat bike and go some where! I want to be able to effectively travel across pavement, dirt, ice, snow all on the same ride. As for the weight argument, I'm not buyin' it at all. If you have to tip-toe through 50% of the ride to save some weight... and the guy w/ the extra weight is miles ahead, carrying a cadence right on through, than the extra weight was warranted. Unfortunately, in our area at least, the lack of a workable production studded tire may be the reason fat bikes are having such a hard time catchinng on. We get so much ice around here they just don't work that great. and most folk's don't have the gumption to make they're own. I've got no problem paying $200.00 a tire either- if they allow me the freedom to grab my FB and go, whatever the winter condition, it'll be worth it. Last Fri. it snowed about 8", then by sat. afternoon it was raining and by this morning it was clear and 29F ICE,ICE,ICE! Wtih water running over it on off camber curved bridges... I couldn't skip another day so I went for it. Sure, it was do-able, but it took me three times as long. It was almost exactly 50% ice and 50% wet/dry pavement... oh, and did I mention the frozen solid slush! YES, PLEASE! Surly, Nokian, whoever, somebody make us a "Nokian styled" (stud wise I mean) fat bike tire. The notion that they wont be usefull and/or that people don't want 'em is BOGUS! Might be true if we all lived in AK or MN (no offense anybody). Couple weeks ago I had both bikes up at our local ski area for after-ski fun. On the slicker sections of compact snow & ice - roads & etc. between the lodge/bar/RV lot/nordic track, the bike w/ the studs did circles around the lighter "studless" bike... no matter who was riding! Period!

  22. #22
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    “We don’t have any plans to added studded tires to the mix as they add quite a bit of rotational weight and they kind of defeat the purpose of floating on top of the snow.
    Some folks have made their own studded tires with marginal success and they have all gone back to regular Endomorphs and Larrys.”

    [/QUOTE]

    This comment is Bogus! More people don't make studded tires 'cause they're a beotch to make, not to mention the risk of ruining a 100 dollar tire(s). And Endo's and Larry's are all we have to go back to. This comment could have only been made by someone with little or no experience w/ "slick" ice. Want to sell more FB's in Wa. and Or.? Give us a production, carbide studded tire!

  23. #23
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    I would not have much need for studded fat tires. When things get icy, the trails are also icy and hard and I can ride with another bike. Hence I would probably not buy studded fat tires. I understand the need, though, but I fear they would be horribly expensive.
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  24. #24
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    Well said, Ward!
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  25. #25
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    That is a curiously blanket statement for Surly to make. They know for a fact that ALL have gone back to non studs?

    Whatever happened to the poster who use stainless set screws on a Larry? That idea reeked of smartness. No heads on the inside of the tire, light, stainless.....

    As for costs, if a good Nokian is 100 bucks, and a good non studded Nokian is 50 ish, wouldn't that make a studded Larry or Endo, about $150?

    I'm guessing if they did make them, the real problem would be Surly getting a truck load of them in, in June, then get yelled at by management for not being able to get rid of that investment fast enough

    Perhaps someone should suggest that they work with production inside the US, as to meet demand times more efficiently? I'm sure there's some talented folks out of work who have realized they don't need to make a million bucks an hour to be happy, and would just be overjoyed for a steady paycheck....
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  26. #26
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    I also gave some thought to the Blizzak type rubber compounds, which having had 4 of them on my WRX wagon are remarkable on ice and great everywhere else. But I think that the weight of the vehicle has a lot to do with that compound doing its thing. And when it comes to frozen rained-on ruts nothing will stick like a stud or a spike point like using a sheet metal screw. I've done many of those and they work great, just heavy and very time-consuming. And once I've spent the time drilling and screwing my tires hearing them scrape and wear on blacktop on the way to a trail is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
    So I would go for a good carbide studded production fat tire myself if it were available. I don't think the weight matters on a fat bike (for me anyway).
    But I also wish there was a DIY stud that had a screw base that you could screw into the tire without penetrating all the way to the tube that also had some ridges and barbs on the threaded portion to keep it from backing or pulling out.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave29er
    But I also wish there was a DIY stud that had a screw base that you could screw into the tire without penetrating all the way to the tube that also had some ridges and barbs on the threaded portion to keep it from backing or pulling out.



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  28. #28
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    Drew came up with these and started a thread about 'em, it's just a ways back. looks like a tight fit to me after measuring the lugs for width and thickness... at least on the Larry. Lugs are a little wider on an Endo, but will the casing be thick enough? Is the casing on the heavier 27 tpi tires thicker? If so this might be a way to go... but at a buck a piece... that's some expensive T&E! Don't get me wrong, if they'll work, I'll save up & do a pair. The "tollerance" just looks so close to me... like if they fit, they're going to barely fit...

    http://www.aerodist.com/mountain-bike/stud-1000.html

    Look's like the threads penetrate 5.8mm
    Last edited by ward; 12-14-2010 at 08:14 AM.

  29. #29
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    Thanks for a very interesting thread.
    When I started Winter riding 2 years ago, with Nokian studs on my old ss mountain bike, I discovered how much fun it is. I also came across some non icy, snowy conditions where a fat tire would work much better than a "skinny" 2.1 studded tire.
    So, When Salsa released the Mukluk, I ordered one. (Still waiting)

    I just figured a studded fat tire would make a fat bike an invincible all conditions Winter bike.
    The discussion here, from very knowledgable riders, is very interesting.
    Thanks!
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  30. #30
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    Fat tires already help on ice, no doubt. There is nothing worse on icy ruts than hard, skinny tires. And by adding studs to both a fat and skinny tires, I could see the fat tire outperforming the skinny one in many situations.

    I think a tire molded with the stud wells already in the tread would make sense, and then the consumer could buy a bag of studs and add them if they wished, in the amount they wished, in the pattern they wished. Studs are easy to pop in with a stud tool if the tire is ready to accept them. It is just a matter of doing the molding of the stud wells in the knobs at the time of manufacture. The tire could be made at the same price as existing tires if you bought it without studs. A bag of 100 studs might run you $25 or so, and you could add them yourself, or, the manufacturer could charge a premium for pre-studded models. Really serious people could add their own studs with some hot glue for permanence.

    I think everyone would be satisfied if Larrys had slightly reinforced knobs, and if each knob had a stud well molded into it. Nokian-style mushroom-head studs should be readily available for retrofit.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    Keeping it vertical only works when the ice is horizontal. Unfortunately out in the wild that is not always so. Offcamber ice requires studs for me which I don't have on the Fatback so down I go sometimes.
    I find that for rutted ice, my regular endos at low pressure can deform and fit into various declivities to find traction that a skinny-tired bike cannot.

    But yeah I am in WA and my real bete noire is black ice (glace noire?), and I ride skinny studs for that. In conditions that the Pug truly thrives in, around here, black ice is usually not possible so they're just not in the same place at the same time.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Fat tires already help on ice, no doubt. There is nothing worse on icy ruts than hard, skinny tires. And by adding studs to both a fat and skinny tires, I could see the fat tire outperforming the skinny one in many situations.

    I think a tire molded with the stud wells already in the tread would make sense, and then the consumer could buy a bag of studs and add them if they wished, in the amount they wished, in the pattern they wished. Studs are easy to pop in with a stud tool if the tire is ready to accept them. It is just a matter of doing the molding of the stud wells in the knobs at the time of manufacture. The tire could be made at the same price as existing tires if you bought it without studs. A bag of 100 studs might run you $25 or so, and you could add them yourself, or, the manufacturer could charge a premium for pre-studded models. Really serious people could add their own studs with some hot glue for permanence.

    I think everyone would be satisfied if Larrys had slightly reinforced knobs, and if each knob had a stud well molded into it. Nokian-style mushroom-head studs should be readily available for retrofit.
    Agreed! This would be the ideal sanario. This would also make them replaceable (important as winter tread doesn't ware down very fast- tire could easily outlast the studs). Also gives you the option of pulling the studs and using it as a reg. Larry if need be... As the Coast Kid say's "Brilliant"!

    Stud wells themselves might add a little "gription"

  33. #33
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    About 4 days ago I was riding and the conditions varied from snow to wet slick ice.

    Studs on the side of the Larry would have made things more comfortable to say the least.
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  34. #34
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    42 degrees F on this morning's commute, after heavy rain last night rained away 'bout 70% of the current snow. Supposed to have snow & mixed rain tonight, slowly turning cold again. Around here it would be totally normal now for the rain & meltwater to freeze solid and be cloaked w/ a fresh inch (or more) of snow. I injured a shoulder a few years back riding the "Snow Cats" in just those conditions... went down hard & fast... POW! Skinned up my chin & everything. Was cruising through a slight bend on our "Greenway path"(paved) and lost it on a hidden frozen puddle. A line of studs a row or so inside from the edge (of the tread) might have grabbed as I got sideways and saved me. When things slow down (work wise) in Jan., I'll try to film some Ice riding w/ the sheet metal "studs"...

  35. #35
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    Personally, not interested....

    I live in Anchorage and we are subject to either winter rain or deep snow in the winter. The days I need studs are the days I don't need floatation. The days I need floatation are not the days I need studs. It's been on a rare occation that I've been in conditions that required a fat and studded tire. I think that would be overkill for me personally. I have a set of 26-inch studded wheels that I use on a standard mountain bike that I rarely use anymore, but I'm glad to have them when we get the occational freezing rain storm here.

    Regards,

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  36. #36
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    My point?
    Take a look at any currently available studded tire, and you'll see thick casings. We already tried those in the fatbike world. Nokian's!
    Now, we're offered the Endo and Larry. They are without a doubt, leaps and bounds ahead of every other large volume tire because they have thin supple casings.
    Now, to incorporate studs, one needs to add material to the casing to protect the tube. There goes the large volume/supple casing benefit.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev-Bot
    Now, to incorporate studs, one needs to add material to the casing to protect the tube. There goes the large volume/supple casing benefit.
    Nokian Hakka 300 tires are quite light and supple. A mushroom-head stud does not require any casing reinforcement, and even the knob requirements are pretty minimal, though they may need to be a few mm taller than the currrent Larrys.

  38. #38
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    The Nokian studs look to be the lightest studs I've come across as well, like a simple, small version of car studs. should be easyer on the lugs than sheet metal screws or car studs sticking through. And the screw in studs' threads look they could tear the heck out of a lug if you weren't perfectly lined up... specially with the narrow Larry lugs. Would be cool if Nokian wanted to get involved and give us production fat tire w/ a studded option...they've got alot of experiance... would love to see what they'd come up with for a tread design...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev-Bot
    My point?
    Take a look at any currently available studded tire, and you'll see thick casings. We already tried those in the fatbike world. Nokian's!
    Now, we're offered the Endo and Larry. They are without a doubt, leaps and bounds ahead of every other large volume tire because they have thin supple casings.
    Now, to incorporate studs, one needs to add material to the casing to protect the tube. There goes the large volume/supple casing benefit.
    The only downside to adding studs to Larry and Endomorph is the additional weight of the studs (150g/wheel) and tube protection (tuffy liner, foam tape, silicone caulk, whatever works). There is no compromise in volume and I certainly do not notice a change in the supple casing. The upside: I can ride anywhere with confidence that I will not crash on ice, and enjoy the flotation benefits of fat tires. We can go on and on on the theoretical pros and cons, but nothing succeeds like success. My studded Larry/Endomorphs are awesome; they provide grip and flotation without significant compromise. If DIY is the only way I can reach these results, then so be it. However, it would sure be nice if a tire company could mass-produce this product without the tedious process of studding the tires myself, and a tire company could probably do a better job of covering the heads of the studs.

  40. #40
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    I also contacted Suomi Tires (Nokian) to see what they would say, the reply was we're not able to produce that wide tyres in our current production line. No indication if they had thought about them.

    My argument for them is that I often run in to conditions requiring both float and ice traction. One of my frequent winter rides takes me up a ~2000’ ascent and 8 miles from my car. I know what I need for tires at the start but have no idea what the conditions are at the top on the mountain. Could be ice at the bottom and snow at the top or vice versa. Snow at the top could be soft while the bottom got some freeze thaw cycles so it’s set up hardpack. The trails are also used by snow machines so most of the time the sharp corners are polished while the straight sections are softer.

    I have a skinny studded tires too which work great at the beginning and the end of the winter season and some time during the middle of the season too. My preference is I’d really like to just take my bike out and ride and not have figure out what I need. I’ll often go to where I’m going to ride on my way home to check out the trail conditions before I go. If I had this one last tool on my Swiss Army Bike it would be perfect.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by neal_b
    My preference is I’d really like to just take my bike out and ride and not have figure out what I need.
    This.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by neal_b
    I also contacted Suomi Tires (Nokian) to see what they would say, the reply was we're not able to produce that wide tyres in our current production line. No indication if they had thought about them...
    I wonder how many they would need to make to be worth their while? A nice bulk order maybe?
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  43. #43
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    I'm impressed that it only takes 4 extra ounces to stud a larry/endo; schwalbe's marathon winters weigh about a pound each more than marathon extremes that they are based on (and that's just a 35mm tire not a 95mm one)

  44. #44
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    I own a set of Marathon Winters and there is absolutely no purpose that I can tell to the quantity of rubber they poured into those things. It's like they were after a solid rubber tire but just barely missed. They are the most harsh and unpleasant riding tire I have ever been on since the sidewalls are essentially like plastic. My Hakka 300 have 60 more studs per tire, weigh about half as much, and have quite nice ride characteristics. I'm not sure exactly what point you were trying to make was, but I would not use the Schwalbes as a representative for all studded tires.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy

    I think a tire molded with the stud wells already in the tread would make sense, and then the consumer could buy a bag of studs and add them if they wished, in the amount they wished, in the pattern they wished.
    I like this. Similar to a car tire. When you buy certain makes of Nokians, they can stud them for you at the shop. I've had Nokian winters left unstudded on my Subaru... just a series of small holes in the knobs.

    You can buy these:




    And this:


  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Nokian Hakka 300 tires are quite light and supple. A mushroom-head stud does not require any casing reinforcement, and even the knob requirements are pretty minimal, though they may need to be a few mm taller than the currrent Larrys.
    Not sure you'd even need taller knobs. The bike pictured was studded by its owner and he used tiny car studs which he embedded into the lugs of the tires. Didn't ask how he did it, but it looked very professional.

    I saw this bike at the recently held Mukluk Release/Welcome Winter party in Faribault, MN almost a couple weeks ago now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manufactured Studded Larry Variant...-muklukreleaseparty-002.jpg  

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    Back down to 22 degrees F on this mornings commute. Lots of dry pavement where the sun shined yestertday but in the shady areas and where the snowmelt puddled or ran across the road was solid, clear ice. No time lost this morning though due to an old commuter's technique from way back. As the snow receeds (once we've had a few snow's and the roads have been graveled), left behind is often a gravel berm along the edge of the road... spat out by the traffic and snowplow's. As skinny as a couple inches and as wide as a foot... and frozen into the ice in places. Rode the gravel berm like a trail to work today, with confidence. Can't count on conditions though, still need studs, production or DIY. Going to a couple fastener stores at lunch time today and tomorow to check out different styles & hardness' of screws for now. They do work and they are replacable. After finishing a set though, couple hundred dollers a peice sounds pretty fair for a production set! specialy for a set that would last a while and effectively handle paved sections.

  48. #48
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    That green Pugsley is mine. Repainted with rattle can, rear hub is a NuVinci N360, pedals are Atomlab Quikstep. Studs are from a French company named UgiGrip, they're of the long lasting carbide tip variety, got them off ebay. The DIY Larry thread is here, and the relevant bits from me start at post 35.

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    To answer the question about lug depth, the studs I used are 11mm long and about 1.5mm worth of pan head thickness lives on the inside of the tire casing, and the inner tube is shielded from the heads with some "Stop Flats 2" liners.

    The tires are still plenty supple.

    The aerodist studs are still of interest to me. They're stupid expensive but I might save up for next year's experiment.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Whatever happened to the poster who use stainless set screws on a Larry? That idea reeked of smartness. No heads on the inside of the tire, light, stainless.....
    One Larry studded, one to go. Unfortunately my custom fat frame is probably still another 6 weeks away. Considering that I spent $100 on 500 set screws to stud two tires, plus at least 8 hours per tire to drill all the holes and screw in all the studs, I would definitely pay $150 to $200 for a factory studded Larry.

    I did a 9 mile ride on my cross bike today on a mix of paved roads and dirt roads. It was snowing lightly the whole time and there was some accumulation on the pavement, as well as a thin layer of hard packed snow on the dirt sections. That bike has nokian hakkapeliitta w240 700x40 tires, and even with that minimal amount of snow the bike got squirrelly a few times.

    Once I have my fat bike, a typical ride from my house will be: 1/2 mile on pavement, 1.5 miles on snowmobile trails, another 3 miles on a combination of snowmobile trails and dirt roads, followed by a loop of several miles on a large frozen reservoir, then back home. In my mind, flotation and studs is the only way to go for a ride like that.

    If the pavement sections wear out my studs too quickly, I'll switch over to plain steel set screws. They're harder and cheaper than the stainless ones. But carbide studs from the factory on a Larry would be the way to go if they were available.

    When you consider the cost, labor and risk (of ruining a $100 tire) of DIY studding a fat tire, I think if they were available from a manufacturer it would drive the sales of even more fat bikes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manufactured Studded Larry Variant...-larrystud1.jpg  

    Manufactured Studded Larry Variant...-larrystud2.jpg  


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