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Manitou Mastodon?

436K views 2K replies 286 participants last post by  Donkeeboy 
#1 ·
I've heard that Treks are being spec'd with this new fork from Manitou. Has anyone heard any details?
 
#1,831 ·
I suppose that is what your car uses for engine oil? My car uses 0W20 and I have some, might as well do that. What function does the oil in the casting even have? It just seems to do some general lubrication and likley will work with a variety of oils

And is the damper oil (or called fork oil) I found good for the damper? It sounds like it is what Manitou lists and sells under their own part number.

Sorry about the many questions. But this is my first suspension fork....
 
#1,836 · (Edited)
I found Maxima also has a lowers oil andit says it has detergents. I'm sure different detergents ones than engine oil, though. They have a light and heavy version. I saw it for $11 and sold as Rockshocks fluid. teh hayes stuff is $15 on their website + shipping). I almost think i may buy that unless i get brave enough to use engine oil. there also is this thread, and more.

Edit: there also is this thread where it is claimed this oil is what Manitou uses. It is a 5W40 engine oil. That may be better than me just using whatever engine oil I have handy.

and this is why it was a good idea to do fork service over winter. I knew i would run into something like this that in the middle of the (my first) service, I have to research something and possibly order something. Good i have a rigid fork in winter :)
 
#1,860 · (Edited)
So I ordered and received this knob kit and it works. i also ordered the Mastodon sealkit to not pay shipping. I'm prestty sure, now that I bought this knob kit, the one i lost will re-appear...

Since that kit states it is for the Magnum only, I called Hayes. They stated it will work (which it did). Excellent service from Hayes. That's the second time I called them and got help right away.

So I hope this helps someone who is as careless with small parts as I am :)

Lesson learned, don't do fork service over several months and let it all lay on a work bench....
 
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#1,861 ·
So I ordered and received this knob kit and it works. i also ordered the Mastodon sealkit to not pay shipping. I'm prestty sure, now that I bought this knob kit, the one i lost will re-appear...

Since that kit states it is for the Magnum only, I called Hayes. They stated it will work (which it did). Excellent service from Hayes. That's the second time I called them and got help right away.

So I hope this helps someone who is as careless with small parts as I am :)

Lesson learned, to do fork service over several months and let it all lay on a work bench....
That last sentence is trouble...
 
#1,879 ·
Just checked ours. They have six positions, including both ends. Counting from full CCW/open, I ride the 2nd position and my wife prefers the 3rd. A two click change is pretty noticeable.

Manitou combined high and low speed compression damping in one easy adjusted knob. The change makes sense since they advised setting each proportionately to one another on Gen 2. Those knobs were stiff and right on top of one another, so I never tweaked them like i can so easily with the single Gen 3 knob. Compare 2 with 5 and you’ll understand.
 
#1,891 ·
I ordered the LE snow camo. Blake from Hayes has been really helpful however, if the lowers are miscast wouldn’t that effect the lot of them? Nice to see that they just sent you the next gen (3). Hopefully they do the same for me. I use my bike for cardiac rehab and not having the bike is sub optimal. We shall see. Fingers crossed.
 
#1,905 ·
2XL/120 = 139mm
Overall height for the 2XL on both 100 and 120 was ~31" (788mm) tall.
It'll be tight, but you know better than me as you've run 'em on the G2. It's only a couple mm on each side at 10 PSI according to @mikesee "average" measurements. I know 10 PSI is ridiculously high for the 2XL. I don't know how much it shrinks at sub 1 PSI. I just want everyone to have the numbers before they make purchase decisions. If the tire has any runout, it may rub.

Note I haven't measured the clearance to the crown. The AC is shorter on the G3 for the same travel by 6 or 7 mm IIRC. I don't if that impacts max tire diameter.
 
#1,929 ·
Gen 3 seems to be some simplified damping. You generally don't want LSC coupled with HSC, you want to be able to dial in LSC interpedently to adjust dive without impacting harshness. That said, Gen 2 was over-damped for a lot of riders. That doesn't necessarily mean that Gen 3 is better though. Gen 2 damper is easy to work on, as it's not a bladder style and it's easy to bleed with no tools at all. If Gen 3 is a bladder, that's a pretty big hit for the serviceability. Gen 3 is a little longer than Gen 2 non-EXT, so you can get a little more travel or a little bigger tire in for the same amount of travel. Not radical though, only 10mm more. And gen 3 shaves some weight from the crown I believe...which I'm a little suspect of, a LOT of stiffness is necessary to make up for legs spaced this far apart, and for-aft with such a giant tire, but not a big change either.
 
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#1,964 ·
Welp, the asinine air spring in the Mastodon is sucking down again in the cold. Stopped 3 times to try and add air and pull it apart, it seemed to work at first, but later on I'd notice it had sunk back down a bit. Mind you, it's -5F and the last thing I want to be doing is fiddle-****ing-around with an air spring in those temps. So frustrating. Why why why didn't they just put a goddamn coil spring in there (I know, because they were being cheap). It's just asinine for something that is supposedly intended to be ridden in the cold...
 
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#1,979 ·
Very frustrating, mine was doing the same thing again this year too. I've asked quite a few folks (online FAT groups etc) and they say they aren't having that issue but I'm guess it's because they aren't actually riding in as cold of temps as they think and/or they aren't putting the fork through the same paces we are.
 
#1,989 ·
I have many, many rides on my coil sprung Gen 2 Mastodon, and it's awesome! I did go up from a soft spring to a medium spring, but other than that it's perfect.

I run a CC Inline Coil out back, no issues with functional changes with cold temps, about the only thing that after acts up when it's cold is my dropper :)
 
#2,002 ·
Manitou (or another suspension tuning company) could offer a coil conversion kit for the Mastodon, which would be a great aftermarket upgrade for those who desire it. I mean, the fork platform is already superb, it can fit any fat tire + rim combo, even Snowshoe 2XL on a 128 mm rim (!). Damping can be improved or tuned if needed.

I agree that for most fatbike riders, air spring is more than okay, but if I'd be riding in Jayem's conditions and temperatures (yikes), no doubt I'd be on a coil suspension.

Given the lengths and expenses I've had to go to get a titanium frame with room for 2XL tires on 128 mm rims, and then actually finding some 2XL tires in 120 TPI casing, the fork coil upgrade almost sounds like a trivial exercise :)
 
#2,004 ·
There really isn't space to lay the bike down on snow trails and the snow is so deep off trail, it's not very practical.

Even if the ingestion rate is near zero, its still going to blow out some atomized oil when you lay it down?

Another aspect of why this is asinine is if you have to add pressure, so be it, it happens, but often you just want to bleed a little and that is needlessly complex (in the cold). Fussing around with pumps and valves with your fingers in the cold is not what you want to be doing. With RS and Fox you can bleed a little from the cap without hooking up a pump, having to fish a pump out of somewhere, tighten it on, etc. The less you can be screwing around with your fingers in the cold, the better. Just not a well thought out system. More traditional air springs would be better. Coil would be best.

But I do have the rebuild kit now, so I'll be changing all the air seals (again).

Please Manitou. Make. An. Actual. Cold. Weather. Fatbike. Fork. (coil).
Dougal to the white courtesy phone …
It's on the list. But I have to satisfy some non manitou owner projects too.
 
#2,017 ·
It would be great to know a few parameters:
  • leg length on both of your forks (Model year 2019 to present all Pro and Comp travel configurations use 367mm leg lengths besides the Pro EXT 150mm travel configuration, which uses 377mm., source: Hayes manual)
  • spacer configuration at both bottom-out and top-out position

View attachment 2082286

View attachment 2082287
My fork started life as a Pro EXT set at 140 mm, one bottom out spacer and two top out spacers. After my modifications a Selva coil fits perfectly with just a slight amount of pressure on the top cap when screwing it down.

The pictures are posted somewhere back in this thread, but essentially I removed the IRT from the top cap, inserted a a single top spacer into the cap, then took apart the air spring removing the o ring and nylon sealing ring so air could easily bypass the plunger, then I removed the heat wrap from the spring, greased it up with slick honey, and reinstalled.

I suppose you could run a spring with less travel or more clearance by adding spacers at either end, then cut the spring down to fit.

You could do these modifications as a trial, saving all the extra parts, but after a while I'm sure the spring would begin to score the tubes.

I'm 190# riding a full suspension Fatillac and I run a medium Selva coil and it works perfectly. I have bottomed out a couple times from nose heavy landings off bigger drops, got full travel and nothing bad happened; ie the sky did not fall :)
 
#1,907 ·
So, my G3 is knocking. :(

I've been following yours and other's issues. Also, it has a lot of stiction. I plan to open a ticket with Hayes today. I've been running for about 6 weeks.

I think the casting has changed for the cable routing. Mine has no rear cable routing integrated. The new fork is also different offset. but that can be accomplished in the crown.
 
#1,968 ·
Maybe the Wren is the answer for winter riding, with it's simpler damper, but maybe a more complex damper isn't needed for riding on snow? I'm really frustrated with this, because you have to set the bike down, there is often not enough width on winter snow singletrack to do that, then there' the inherent differences in pump readings if you use more than one, then there's compensating for the cold with pressure and finally there's balancing out front/rear spring. It's just such a PITA with this spring system. And then the Gen 3 Mastodon with a bladder damper seems to introduce a new possible issue, since now it requires the bladder to be sealed and that too has to stand up to cold weather.
 
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#1,971 ·
I know you get tired of me saying it, but ...

I absolutely love my Mastodon EXT Pro with a Formula coil :)

I have run a soft and a medium coil, currently using the medium coil cuz it matches better with the CC Vault Progressive coil out back.

I modified the air shaft and installed a coil in Fall, the bike has been my daily driver since then, dirt, rock, snow, jumps, and it is working fine.

I have no issues with air pressure, weather related changes, and it works really, really, really well (y) (y)

The Wren was a piece of junk, perhaps the quality has improved, but it's still an inverted fork that twists like a noodle AND it's still an air fork.
 
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