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Thread: Loose bolts

  1. #1
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    Loose bolts

    When lubing the chain after my ride this afternoon, for the heck of it I checked a bunch of my allen bolts and was surprised to find a handful of them pretty loose, and a couple of them really loose.

    I just built this up a couple of months ago and am pretty compulsive about that sort of thing, so I am doubtful it's just that I didn't tighten them in the initial build.

    Maybe it's just the vibration from the trail, or the temperature extremes? But, again, it's only been a couple of months since I put this together.

  2. #2
    All fat, all the time.
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    Did you use loctite?

  3. #3
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    I never do, but maybe I should!

    My experience is mostly roadie -- is Loctite mtbr sop?

  4. #4
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    Yes. Use Loctite 243, blue. Saves you all kinds of trouble...🙂
    Todd

  5. #5
    RAKC Industries
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    Any time there is steel screws/bolts into aluminum (regardless of what the bike is used for, road or fat) blue loctite is a requirement.

    Aluminum expands and contracts at different rates versus steel, when you tighten them in a warm house/garage then expose to colder outside air to ride (or vise versa, build in AC and go ride in the summer heat) vibrations from riding will cause things to work loose because they basically act as if not tightened to begin with.

    Anti-sieze also works for some things, anything that has higher torque specs (bottom bracket threads for instance).

    Blue loctite also seals against galvanic corrosion which is a very real thing on a fat bike during the winter.

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  6. #6
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    This is actually a Ti frame, but I'm assuming the same issue arises?

    Regardless, I'm going to go find some blue Loctite!

    Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply!

  7. #7
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    Well you have aluminum levers and such too but yes.

    I should have been more clear as in 2 different metals. Aluminum and steel, ti and aluminum or to and steel etc. All happens for the reason above.

    You can get the stuff at even Walmart (blue 242 iirc but it says blue medium strength). I'm actually out and need to get more. Whatever you do, don't accidently try to use the strong like the red, you'll never get the bolt back out again. No joke. It's designed for a permanent adhesive that fills any gap. You snap a bolt head off long before the threads budge.

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  8. #8
    turtles make me hot
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    And do not EVER use the green stud mount Loctite. You'll seriously never get it apart. Ask me how I know.
    I like turtles

  9. #9
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    So, blue but not red or green. Now you guys are scaring me. I can only imagine the agony of twisting off a bolt in my downtime -- or worse!

    Is there something else that might be safer -- like teflon tape, or something?

  10. #10
    turtles make me hot
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    I actually only use blue Loctite on my chain ring bolts and rotor bolts. Every other bolt on my bikes gets grease.
    I like turtles

  11. #11
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    Blue (medium strength) is perfectly safe. Just a couple drops on the threads is all you need.

  12. #12
    turtles make me hot
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    They also make a Loctite "crayon" that may be easier.
    I like turtles

  13. #13
    since 4/10/2009
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    Also for Ti, I'd be using more anti-seize than loctite.

    On regular aluminum and steel bikes, I use a LOT of grease, and not a whole lot of loctite. I think the key is that you're using SOMETHING and that you're tightening adequately. Stuff loosening up is telling me that you didn't have it tight enough to begin with. Grease or loctite or antiseize (whichever is most appropriate for the given application) will help you get things tightened correctly the first time. A torque wrench is also pretty useful. I've got a 5Nm CDI preset torque key that tends to work on just about any clamp anywhere. I have an inexpensive beam-style torque wrench I got at the nearby Ace Hardware ($25, IIRC) that I mostly just use for crank bolts with torque requirements of 50Nm or so, or stuff the 5Nm preset key doesn't cover.

    I simply don't get stuff loosening up under typical conditions with the system I use.

  14. #14
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    I usually use blue on steel bolts and anti seize on titanium.
    Don't use red except on brake rotor bolts.
    You need heat like a micro jet flame lighter to remove red.
    Totem KDS-D fatbike, Brompton M2L-X Ti, 6kg Dahon Dove, 1998 GT Forte Ti road bike

  15. #15
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    I would only put loctite on threads which unscrew over time with tight fit, and grease otherwise.
    Generally loctite will go to brake rotors calipers (that where most vibrations occur), novatec hub (known problem to go loose) etc.
    I would probably never put loctite to pedals, they can seize without loctite easily, just grease, and any other part generally will go with grease first.


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  16. #16
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    What exactly came loose? I don't use much Loctite at all. I bought an expensive torque wrench to help me obtain the correct torque values. I use a lot of anti-seize, too often in the past grease failed a few times that resulted in a trip to the bike shop to have the bolts carefully drilled out with a drill press.

    My issue is some component MFG's use cheap fasteners that gall out with Allen wrenches to easily - another reason for a good torque wrench with good attachments.

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    The older (and hopefully wiser) I get the more I like anti seize. I've had very good luck with copper based for the last few years, only had one pedal give me a really hard time since 2007.

  18. #18
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    243 is the most up to date formula, designed for plated and inactive metals like Aluminum, Titanium, etc. 242 is old, dating to the 70's. 248 is the stick that looks like wax...

    Red formulas need heat to release (350f). Green is typically for retaining bearings in sleeves, very high strength.
    Todd

  19. #19
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    Thanks, everyone. The bolts that were loose were an odd-assortment -- water bottle bracket, brake levers, rear derailleur, and brake mounting brackets. I've never even heard of anti-seize, and have always just used a lithium grease to insure both a good initial tightness and that I can get the fastener back out. Although, it sounds like anti-seize is doing something more than lubrication.

    I'll check again in a couple of weeks -- and my rotors tonight... for some reason I forgot about those -- and hit anything that's loose again with the blue Loctite (not red... not green!). I might also look for an inexpensive torque wrench. I'm sure all those Nm specs are there for more than just product liability.

    Thanks again. I truly appreciate the willingness folks here have to share their knowledge and experience.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
    Thanks, everyone. The bolts that were loose were an odd-assortment -- water bottle bracket, brake levers, rear derailleur, and brake mounting brackets. I've never even heard of anti-seize, and have always just used a lithium grease to insure both a good initial tightness and that I can get the fastener back out. Although, it sounds like anti-seize is doing something more than lubrication.

    I'll check again in a couple of weeks -- and my rotors tonight... for some reason I forgot about those -- and hit anything that's loose again with the blue Loctite (not red... not green!). I might also look for an inexpensive torque wrench. I'm sure all those Nm specs are there for more than just product liability.

    Thanks again. I truly appreciate the willingness folks here have to share their knowledge and experience.
    If you are threading anything into Ti, anti-seize is your friend. Grease will work, but sometimes it won't. Ti is known for galling badly.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  21. #21
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    The stuff your listing you should be using loctite not anti-sieze.

    Anti-sieze is only good for higher torque applications, anything else may work loose again.

    So unless you want to be cranking those bolt down to the point of risking stripping the heads if you don't have nice tight fitting hex keys, use blue loctite (243, and thanks for the correction, mind gets stuck on 242 lol).

    But as pointed out DO NOT use on pedals (I use it on the tread pins that's it). But make sure to use anti-sieze there.

    That's the other plus of blue loctite. If you run carbon fiber it's your best friend for brake/shifter levers.

    Torque wrench is needed for some but truly only needed when dealing with carbon fiber. Which you definitely want to use 243 on those bolts because torque settings are very low. I don't have an actual torque wrench, I bought a small tool that's preset to 15 for tightening stem cap bolts. Levers I use a small Allen key, loctite on the threads and CF paste. Just like aluminum bars I just snug enough they don't move under normal use.

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  22. #22
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    Though anti-sieze is good there, he used the wrong loctite or overtorqued the hell outta that RD bolt. I'm going with the former (wrong loctite).

    Also why I don't use the paste sticks. Liquid only.

    I am surprised you've never had cage bolts come loose with anti-sieze. I've had it happen with steel and aluminum bolts. Though I've been dealing with mass produced frames with the cheap threaded inserts.

    Forgot what their called right now, I keep some on hand as had the ones on my trek road bike when new, spinning in the frame. Think lbs did it cross threading one putting the cage on. Noticed the rattle first ride and found it.

    Other reason I use loctite, I don't have to put much torque on small bolts and they stay perfectly forever.

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  23. #23
    since 4/10/2009
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    for aluminum and steel frames, I've only ever used grease on bottle cage bolts. Never put loctite of any flavor anywhere near them, and I've never had problems. I'd have no problem using anti-seize on bottle cage bolts in a Ti frame.

    Again, I've only ever used grease on RD bolts in steel or alu. Never had one loosen on me, and never had one get stuck. Yeah, I use blue loctite on rotor bolts and brake caliper bolts because those need to stay put. I usually use grease on stem clamp bolts, too, unless they come with loctite on them already.

  24. #24
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    I was just out looking for something to put on my spoke threads before I lace em up, might try this stuff:

    AGS 0.43oz Stick Spark Plug Anti-Seize (TMK-1) - Anti-Seize Compound - Ace Hardware

    Looks like a good thing to have on hand for those bolts that could use a little anti-seize.

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