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  1. #1
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    looking for comparison of pocketed studs

    I want to see if anyone has any experience and therefor an opinion on the different pocket studs that are out there. i am looking to get a second set of studded tires and i am going with the 4" dillingers. i am currently on 5" dillingers and they work great except in really icy conditions. i actually need less float for the heavily trafficked trails around me.

    Studs i am looking at.
    -china knock off studs (currently running these)
    -45nrth XL concave
    -Wazia triple whatever they call them.

    Basically does one of these work better then the other or is it all marketing. i am leaning towards the wazia's cause they look like they would hold better.

    not going to do any sort of screw in stud as i don't want to have to deal with any issues going tubeless.

    thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Concave studs are pretty good compared to the pointy ones. I don't have any experience with the Wazia.
    --Peace

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    not going to do any sort of screw in stud as i don't want to have to deal with any issues going tubeless.
    Using Surly Bud for 2 years and Maxxis Minion DHF 3.0 with BestGrip/GripStuds and zero problems with tubeless. Lots more grip than any of the "normal" bikestuds.

  4. #4
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    I rode the Dillinger 4 studded last year for a few and they hooked up great on ice! I have one w the concave studs on front and the rear w the regular flat top cylindrical studs.

    I could not tell the difference in traction, both ends were aewsome!
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

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  5. #5
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    I know this isn't the question you asked, but the answer for more traction on ice is to go back to ~2" tires. Which probably means 29" wheels to keep your geometry static. More PSI pushing every stud into the ice is the goal.

  6. #6
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    Unfortunately that is the answer but the trails are a mix of packed snow and then ice in the sunny spots so I need a little bit of float. Plus the trail managers get really pissed if you don't run a fat tire and I need them for racing. I think I am leaning towards the wazia studs as they just look like they will grip better. More jagged with the three points. Thanks everyone for your input.

  7. #7
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    looking for comparison of pocketed studs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post

    Studs i am looking at.
    -china knock off studs (currently running these)
    -45nrth XL concave
    -Wazia triple whatever they call them.

    I used both the 45nrth and Terrene Wazia studs last year. Have not had a chance to try the 45nrth XL studs.

    In my opinion the Terrene Wazia studs are much sharper and have better bite than the 45nrth studs. If you studded up a full Dillinger 4 with the Terrene studs there is pretty much no way you'll lose grip.

    We had a pretty nasty ice season last year and even with running fewer studs on the Terrene Wazia tires (vs. Dillingers) I had zero issue with sliding out. The guys that designed the Dillinger tires / studs when they worked for QBP now make the Wazia tires and studs and view this as their next generation offering.

    Pics for fun... Makes me excited for ice riding again!





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    If grip is the goal I would go with the Grip Studs, they are simply more aggressive. Cost is a factor but that can be mitigated with large buys direct from China. Pricing last year could be well under 50 cents each. Grip can be tailored to a degree with insertion depth and they can be transferred from one tire to the next. They stick in the tire more reliably. I've played with adding pocket studs to D4's, that does improve them markedly but not with a racing intent, just to stay out of the ER!

  9. #9
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    Are the 45N XL studs available yet?
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
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    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  10. #10
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    Terrene studs are pretty inexpensive. Wondering if they would improve the center of my d5's since the current studs seat a bit too far into the pocket.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  11. #11
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    Thread resurrection.

    I just tried the flat tip studs from Bikestud.com, and many of them barely protrude from my Gnarwhal tread blocks. I called Trek, and they said 5.8 mm overall height was what they showed in their system. Side note: Trek has really impressed me over the last few months - when I call, a human answers and has answers to my questions. No call routing or anything - awesome.

    So, I pulled out the old calipers and measured about 50 of the bikestud.com studs. Only 1 came in over 5.6 mm overall height. Most were between 5.45 and 5.55 mm. The diagram on their site shows 5.8 mm.

    Next, I grabbed some 45NRTH concave (non-XL) and measured about 10 of those. All right at 5.8 mm overall height. They seem to protrude well enough.

    Doesnít seem like 0.2 mm would make much difference, but itís noticeable when comparing side by side.

    Iíve opted not to use the bikestud ones on the front tire. Gonna grab some Bontrager studs to see how those look.

  12. #12
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    I have piles of the Bontrager studs in stock. Tell me exactly what you're measuring and I'll throw a caliper on 'em and report back.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I have piles of the Bontrager studs in stock. Tell me exactly what you're measuring and I'll throw a caliper on 'em and report back.
    Hereís what I pulled off one of the the 45NRTH:


  14. #14
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    Yep, I never measured bikestud studs but they barely stick out of my Dillinger 5s. As for grip they are underwhelming, but comparable to other knock off carbide studs I tried and better than no studs. A year before I studded D4s with carbide flat tip studs from amazon and a set of D4 for a friend with pointed carbide tips from amazon as well. Both sticked out further on D4s, but who knows maybe D5 stud pockets are deeper than D4.

    If I ever need to get studded tires again, I'll suck it up and just buy factory studded tires, probably from Terrene. Buying original 45nrth or Terrene studs separately to stud a full set of tires myself never made sense financially with the prices I was able to find so far.
    2018 RSD Middlechild
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  15. #15
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    Bikestud got back with me and is going to send me the concave version. They measured ~6.0 mm for that flavor. Iíll check them when they arrive.

  16. #16
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    BikeStud.com Studs

    These are the BikeStud.com studs. As you can see, the concave studs are taller than the flat studs.

    DYI Stud Pockets (so you can avoid using those expensive screw in studs)

    looking for comparison of pocketed studs-studs.jpg
    Last edited by FatBike&SlenderWoman; 02-17-2018 at 03:25 AM.

  17. #17
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    Top notch work, Mr. FBSW
    Espen Wethe
    www.kindernay.com
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  18. #18
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    Yes, Thanks FBSW, you are saving many $$ and kneecaps with your efforts. I'll soon be drilling some JJs with your method, and want to use the best studs after all that work. My 45N concave studs measure 6.3mm, and the XLs are 6.45mm. Has anyone measured the Terrene studs? I understand they have two sizes.

  19. #19
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    tonight I measured the conical 45nrth studs that came in my older D4s at 5.65mm+/-, the XL studs were around 6.15mm and the Terrene triple traction came in at ~6.0mm. Lengths between random studs would vary by as much as .05mm. Measuring was done with Mitutoyo digital calipers.

    i have found the XL studs to grip very well, but will pull out of the center lugs more often than I would like. (i never lost a standard stud). Thus, I moved the XL studs to the edges of the tires to help with cornering and put the Terrene studs down the two center rows of Dillinger lugs. Terrene makes two lengths of studs and these are the longer ones. On a short test ride on clean ice they were very grippy. At $.50/stud they are not cheap, but a good improvement. if they stick in the tires better than the XL's, then they will be worth it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryten View Post
    ... maybe D5 stud pockets are deeper than D4.
    It's my understanding that the stud pockets are deeper on the d5 (as reported here on mtbr forum).

    I can confirm this tomorrow evening when i get back. There have been those who have succesfully placed a little washer/spacer (made of gasket material) under the stud in the pocket to get the stud to sit more proud of the tire lug.

    Of course thus can be applied to most any tire or stud but nice to have all the stud options!
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    tonight I measured the conical 45nrth studs that came in my older D4s at 5.65mm+/-
    Same height as the BikeStud.com flat stud. $0.16 ea.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Terrene triple traction came in at ~6.0mm.
    Same height as the BikeStud.com concave stud. $0.22 ea.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    i have found the XL studs to grip very well, but will pull out of the center lugs more often than I would like.
    Try injecting a little Shoe Goo into the pocket prior to inserting stud. I have been successful at retaining studs in center lugs of a Surly Lou using this method. This also helps fill any voids in the pocket preventing the stud from sinking deeper (bedding) into the lug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    It's my understanding that the stud pockets are deeper on the d5
    D5 pockets are 4.5mm deep.

    Quote Originally Posted by kryten View Post
    Yep, I never measured bikestud studs but they barely stick out of my Dillinger 5s.
    The aluminum body of a BikeStud flat stud is flush with a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.1mm.

    The aluminum body of a BikeStud concave stud is .3mm taller than a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.5mm.

    This is a photo is a new D5 with a BikeStud concave stud on the left and a BikeStud flat stud on the right following a 25 mile ride round trip across a lake.

    These stud profiles can be viewed by scrolling up to post #16 of this thread.
    You can click on this image to enlarge.

    looking for comparison of pocketed studs-bikestudsd5.jpg
    Last edited by FatBike&SlenderWoman; 02-26-2018 at 11:10 AM.

  22. #22
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    the Terrene triple traction came in at ~6.0mm
    Quote Originally Posted by FatBike&SlenderWoman View Post

    Same height as the BikeStud.com concave stud. $0.22 ea.
    However the Terrene studs have a scalloped edge along the concave top, so they are a bit different. Are they worth 2+ times as much? Hard to say.

    Good work on your pocketing tips. I am going to try it with a Nate.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBike&SlenderWoman View Post
    Same height as the BikeStud.com flat stud. $0.16 ea.



    Same height as the BikeStud.com concave stud. $0.22 ea.



    Try injecting a little Shoe Goo into the pocket prior to inserting stud. I have been successful at retaining studs in center lugs of a Surly Lou using this method. This also helps fill any voids in the pocket preventing tthe stud from sinking deeper (bedding) into the lug.



    D5 pockets are 4.5mm deep.



    The aluminum body of a BikeStud flat stud is flush with a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.1mm.

    The aluminum body of a BikeStud concave stud is .3mm taller than a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.5mm.

    This is a photo is a new D5 with a BikeStud concave stud on the left and a BikeStud flat stud on the right.

    These stud profiles can be viewed by scrolling up to post #16 of this thread.
    You can click on this image to enlarge.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BikeStudsD5.jpg 
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    Thanks, just checked bikestud website and I see the option to buy slightly more expensive concave studs. When I purchased from them the option was not there yet, or I missed it. Wish I have those instead as the regular flat ones are terrible in a D5. Amazon knock off (probably same as bikestud flat ones) in D4 were OK, gripped better than what I have now.

    How would those compare to 45nrth original concave studs?
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  24. #24
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    Excellent work again, FBSW. The 45N concave stud edges look sharper to me. Still not sharp enough, or tall enough the other night on off-camber wet ice. If that stuff keeps happening I'll need Kold Kutters.

  25. #25
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    On my D5 sample pocket depth was:
    center knobs: 3.3, 3.45
    side knobs: 3.95, 4.15

    The concave studs protrude just fine on a new never ridden or mounted D5.

    The D4 center knob pocket depth was 3.1mm

    The concave stud height measured 5.8mm
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    However the Terrene studs have a scalloped edge along the concave top, so they are a bit different. Are they worth 2+ times as much? Hard to say.
    On the Terrene website it states, "3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market"

    It should be a stipulated that... For as long as this stud never comes in contact with any surface other than frozen water, the 3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBike&SlenderWoman View Post
    On the Terrene website it states, "3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market"

    It should be a stipulated that... For as long as this stud never comes in contact with any surface other than frozen water, the 3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market.
    LOL, I expect that to be true. My first real ride with them will probably be the Birkie Fat Bike Race. They are expecting a little thaw/rain between now and the race. If it gets icey, my Dillingers aught to be be pretty good with a combo of XL and Terrene (new) studs.

    I have some Bikestud concave studs showing up today to stud up a Nate using your pocketing method. That should be a climbing beast.

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