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  1. #1
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    Lite Touring on a Moonlander

    Greetings and hallucinations, fellow Fatbikers!

    I'm doing a thought experiment and need some input.

    I've got a stock 2012 Moonlander and 2012 Troll bin build. Right now the Troll is my touring rig. I'm running 2.5" Hookworms on it and I love the feel of fatter tires on the road. I also have bags and racks that I'd prefer to leave on one bike year-round. That led me to...

    Building a 2nd set of wide wheels with Black Floyds for the Moonlander.

    Rolling resistance be damned!

    Anyone got ideas/experience/concerns on this?

    EDIT: Criminy sakes I Googled this before the thread and found nothing, but afterward I changed my search string and found this: Can Black Floyds on your fatbike replace a road bike?

    Slight topic change: Any technical concerns with the Moonlander in such a setup?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupremeDork View Post

    Slight topic change: Any technical concerns with the Moonlander in such a setup?


    The Moonie's 28mm offset won't play nice with rims smaller than the Clownshoe. The Marge Lite and RD's share the same spoke offset. The spoke tension above is not totally unworkable depending on your weight and cargo needs, but personally I wouldn't spend a bunch of $$ to build some weak wheels. Seems like a waste.

    People are running 4" tires on the 100mm CS rims....I'd just stick to your stock wheels and see how the Black Floyds work. BFLs roll pretty well as is...so you may just want to try the stock ML setup and see what you think on tour.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  3. #3
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    Superb post!

    That was my fallback plan; the BFLs at 20+ PSI on the stock Clown Shoes. I'm running Nates for winter, so that works out fine.

    EDIT: Another question:

    Would the stock Surly hubs on the ML be able to handle the amount of weight I'd be carrying? I'm 200+ lbs on a good day. My gear/provisions probably comes to another 40+ I'm guesstimating. In theory the tires are already going to allow more forgiveness, not to mention the slightly flexy frame/fork.
    Last edited by SupremeDork; 03-18-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  4. #4
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    I have stock BFL's on my Moonlander and had been wondering why they rolled more easily than expected on hardpack and tarmac. Then last week had a ride along the cliff top, some hardpack grey gravel, soft sand and shoreline wet sand at the surf edge.

    At 14 psi the BFL's have quite a rounded profile, and riding back I realised that:

    Coming from sea edge across soft sand, whole tyre used - sand stuck across all 4 inches of tyre. (Mud all the 4.7 and edges)

    Then on hardpack dusty gravel could see just the middle two inches of tyre in contact. This was the middle tread and two treads 1" off the centre. Could clearly see I was rolling on just 2" wide band where the gravel dust stuck to the tyre.

    Then crossing some wet grass covered ground, the wet band was 3" wide, quite clear band of wet tyre.

    Clever stuff - a tyre that gets wider as you need it to be wider!

    I am looking forward to doing some lite touring locally along the coast and the New Forest here in the UK. Looks like a frame bag is first purchase.

    Brian

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    I have stock BFL's on my Moonlander and had been wondering why they rolled more easily than expected on hardpack and tarmac. Then last week had a ride along the cliff top, some hardpack grey gravel, soft sand and shoreline wet sand at the surf edge.

    At 14 psi the BFL's have quite a rounded profile, and riding back I realised that:

    Coming from sea edge across soft sand, whole tyre used - sand stuck across all 4 inches of tyre. (Mud all the 4.7 and edges)

    Then on hardpack dusty gravel could see just the middle two inches of tyre in contact. This was the middle tread and two treads 1" off the centre. Could clearly see I was rolling on just 2" wide band where the gravel dust stuck to the tyre.

    Then crossing some wet grass covered ground, the wet band was 3" wide, quite clear band of wet tyre.

    Clever stuff - a tyre that gets wider as you need it to be wider!
    Keen observations! Thanks for sharing!

    A friend just suggested I do a test commute. I'll do so when the sun rises earlier and weather shapes up around here. 13 miles on road (one way) should make a great litmus test.

  6. #6
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    I find that once you get moving, the big tires roll just fine. At least, they do at the slowish average cruising speed I achieve during commutes and fun rides around town. If I set out on a tour, light or heavy, I'll be on my Pug. I know it isn't the most practical in all applications and in some applications it just plain doesn't make any sense, but I have the most fun on it which matters more to me than any other criteria.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    If I set out on a tour, light or heavy, I'll be on my Pug. I know it isn't the most practical in all applications and in some applications it just plain doesn't make any sense, but I have the most fun on it which matters more to me than any other criteria.
    b-but I thought every ride was a race! ;-)

    Whenever I hear fat bike naysaying and pessimism I draw comparisons to cars/trucks and other bikes. You can't take a road bike down a mountain, so why buy one? DERP

    That was code for: "I'm with ya"

  8. #8
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    I did 60 road miles Sunday before last....on my Moonlander shod with BUD and LOU's! (were in-between snow/mud here, haven't committed to putting the BFL's back on yet)

    BFL's roll great too, I did several 40+mile rides last summer and will likely do a 100 mile Century ride this June. I am 230ish right now and run with a full set of packs/bags and haven't noticed any wavering in performance of the additional weight. I say load up and ride away!

  9. #9
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    Any recommendations on which packs/bags work best with the Moonlander. Thinking frame bag, small gas tank bag and an under saddle triangle bag. A lot of the saddle packs seem a bit high up and unsupported, does anyone make a triangular pack that fits neatly in the seat post to back of saddle triangle. I Hve crud catchers fitted so a pack could secure to top of crud catcher, seat post and back of my Brooks.
    Brian

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Any recommendations on which packs/bags work best with the Moonlander.


    Brian - I had Scott at Porcelain Rocket build me custom bags for my Big Dummy a few years ago because the bags I wanted didn't exist.



    He also built me custom bags for my Pugs which are very nice.

    Since he does custom work you just send him a sketch of what you want

    I wasn't sure how solid the seatbag would be, but it's not noticeable when you are riding. I generally put my tent + fly in there with thermarest and possibly a down jacket or rainjacket - depending on the weather.

    I put most of the heavy items in the framebag for best handling of the bike.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  11. #11
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    I have seen Vik's fancy computer wheel thinking machine referenced before and I generally trust such tools. I also really wanted a fast summer marge lite wheel set for my moonlander. So things like facts and logic like Vik presented be damned and I had them built. I have had no problems with the 65 mm rims on my moonlander over one summer/fall of use. I am 265 lbs and bike pack off road with all gear on the bike.
    laotzucycles.blogspot.com

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoreskillz View Post
    I did 60 road miles Sunday before last....on my Moonlander shod with BUD and LOU's! (were in-between snow/mud here, haven't committed to putting the BFL's back on yet)

    BFL's roll great too, I did several 40+mile rides last summer and will likely do a 100 mile Century ride this June. I am 230ish right now and run with a full set of packs/bags and haven't noticed any wavering in performance of the additional weight. I say load up and ride away!
    F#CK YEAH!

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer
    Any recommendations on which packs/bags work best with the Moonlander.
    Check out this thread a started a while back Revelate Frame Bag Compatibility on the Urly Moo

    I run several revelate bags: Frame, Viscacha seat bag, gas tank, and the little one in front of the seat tube. I can carry most of my junk (bag, tent, food, water, clothes, tools) and with a rack I can add my big comfy sleeping pad, and whatever other random stuff a pack mule like myself doesn't mind hauling.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    SNIP
    Brian - I had Scott at Porcelain Rocket build me custom bags for my Big Dummy a few years ago because the bags I wanted didn't exist.
    Gorgeous! I do love a loaded bike, and I lust after loaded fatbikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaredbe View Post
    I have seen Vik's fancy computer wheel thinking machine referenced before and I generally trust such tools. I also really wanted a fast summer marge lite wheel set for my moonlander. So things like facts and logic like Vik presented be damned and I had them built. I have had no problems with the 65 mm rims on my moonlander over one summer/fall of use. I am 265 lbs and bike pack off road with all gear on the bike.
    According to this, a rear 28mm offset Rolling Darryl will work on the Moonlander. I didn't check the math, so I haven't the foggiest how reliable the info is. Universal Cycles -- Surly Rolling Darryl Rear Wheel - Shimano XT Hub

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaredbe View Post
    I have seen Vik's fancy computer wheel thinking machine referenced before and I generally trust such tools. I also really wanted a fast summer marge lite wheel set for my moonlander. So things like facts and logic like Vik presented be damned and I had them built. I have had no problems with the 65 mm rims on my moonlander over one summer/fall of use. I am 265 lbs and bike pack off road with all gear on the bike.
    Glad those wheels are holding up for you... How many miles have you put on them?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  14. #14
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    Vik I have no idea how many miles and am sure it is not as many as some of the folks on the forum ride. The Marge Lite/moonlander set up was all I rode off road last season once I got them. After looking it up I found that I got them mid summer so not a full season I guess but lots fun times. At my heavy weight and with the hits they have survived without a problem so far I feel confident with them. Well I did until I just jinxed them with that statement.
    laotzucycles.blogspot.com

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