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  1. #1
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    Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.

    Due 15th Feb, i will certainly be down of a set of these. Don't know the weight or pricing as yet but here's the rim profile.

    Looks promising enough to go tubeless easily.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.-lb90.jpg  

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  2. #2
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    I had to google... so Light-Bicyle is the company name I see.

    Looks like a great tubeless design!
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

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    Hookless interesting... Still want a hundie but these might have to work.

  4. #4
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    Yes, i have 2 sets of their 29er carbon rims which i built up with Hope hubs, one 29" XC width set and the other their wider trail width 29" rims.

    They perform the same as my ENVE carbon wheels, i actually couldn't tell the difference if it wasn't for the Chris King hub buzzing on the ENVE wheels and the clicking of the Hopes on the LB rims.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    Hookless interesting... Still want a hundie but these might have to work.
    A bit of info on hookless... dont know the origin of it.

    "If inflating under 65 psi and using TR bead centering rims, then bead hooks are useless. We will probably see rims without bead hooks become the standard for mountain bikes in a few years, and tire bead design will follow.

    Having no bead hooks allows a wider inside rim width. And the rim edge can be thicker and more durable without adding more weight compared to a rim with bead hooks.
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  6. #6
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    Their new 35mm wide 650b rim is one of the more expensive ones they sell, and that's $175. So lets see what they come up with pricing on the 90mm rim. Some of the other companies out there are really getting carried away, $400 or more per rim. If this comes in under $200, that's very reasonable, and worth taking a shot. Lets wait and see.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    A bit of info on hookless... dont know the origin of it.
    Think that might be from Specialized and LB is the only place I will trust for overseas direct rims.

  8. #8
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    I have the Derby hookless, wide 29er rims on my Banshee. Have beat the HELL out of them and never had any issue with burping or coming off the rim. As long as these are well designed, and the fat tire beads are tight enough, these should work out great.

  9. #9
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    Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.

    I have a set if the 26 inch rims from them-awesome customer service and setup tubeless on the first try-I'll buy a set.


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  10. #10
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    Guessing at $250 ish (wishing) ?

    Also I would be interested to see two identical tyres side by side on this 90mm rim and any readily available 100mm bead hooked rim .

    Don't forget (we're talking mm's here) that even if two rims have the same internal measurement from lip to lip . A tyre should measure up wider on a hookless rim due to not having to wrap under and around the bead hook .

    I would take a guess that there will be very little in it TBH . Those holding out for a hundie may well be pleasantly surprised . We'll see eh ?


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  11. #11
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    Oh, just looking at the emails again, other info supplied was.

    BSD:559 (bead seat diameter/ETRTO)
    ERD : 534 (effective rim diameter, used for spoke calc)
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Guessing at $250 ish (wishing) ?
    I haven't even thought about it, would prefer to be surprised than disappointed though
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  13. #13
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    I can't help it . My mind is racing .
    It's the carbon addict within that's getting excited and speculative .
    But I see what you're saying .


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  14. #14
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    What spoke hole layout? Two rows? Offset only? Better not be centered...

  15. #15
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    Being box section I have one major / potential deal killer concern with these: If they are two rows (total 64 holes) then that'll be a whole bunch of place for water ingress with no good way to drain. Get that freezing and things can go all sorts of wrong, from fracturing the rim to just making it weighted weirdly. If there is only one row of holes (either centered or staggered) this won't be a big deal, because the spokes will mostly seal the holes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    Being box section I have one major / potential deal killer concern with these: If they are two rows (total 64 holes) then that'll be a whole bunch of place for water ingress with no good way to drain. Get that freezing and things can go all sorts of wrong, from fracturing the rim to just making it weighted weirdly. If there is only one row of holes (either centered or staggered) this won't be a big deal, because the spokes will mostly seal the holes.
    Luckily they invented duct tape just for that job.

    That or a dob of silicon sealant.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Luckily they invented duct tape just for that job.

    That or a dob of silicon sealant.
    Duct tape on the outside of the rim? That'd look like ass and won't be particularly durable... I'd also be wary of RTV silicone because I don't know what the solvents in it will do to the carbon fiber. I'd rather just have 32 staggered holes. Or, I wonder if there's a good reason not to just have them drilled straight down the middle of the rim ala HED.

  18. #18
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    I ordered a pair of 650b rims for my XC bike. We'll see how they work out but so far I'm really happy with the customer service. The fat rims will be on the list for sure. They have a ton of options for finishes/drillings on other rims, maybe you'll be able to pick your poison on the fatties too.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    Duct tape on the outside of the rim? That'd look like ass and won't be particularly durable...
    Sorry, I was being a bit facetious.

    Duct tape has lasted 3 years on one of my rims though. It ain't pretty, but the perpetual film of dirt hides it.

    Good point about the silicone. I'll change my suggestion to epoxy for there.

    You are right though, for rims that price, there should be no compromises.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Sorry, I was being a bit facetious.

    Duct tape has lasted 3 years on one of my rims though. It ain't pretty, but the perpetual film of dirt hides it.

    Good point about the silicone. I'll change my suggestion to epoxy for there.

    You are right though, for rims that price, there should be no compromises.


    Epoxy would be interesting... If you could get it applied nicely I could see that working well. I like duct tape as rim strips, but not just applied on the outside for purposes of filling space.

    I'm really not sure of a good solution with a box section rim, honestly. It almost seems to be like a standard single wall fatbike rim is better, because then the tubeless tape would seal the holes.

  21. #21
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    What are people's thoughts on hookless fat rims when running really low tire pressures such as 4psi?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    Being box section I have one major / potential deal killer concern with these: If they are two rows (total 64 holes) then that'll be a whole bunch of place for water ingress with no good way to drain. Get that freezing and things can go all sorts of wrong, from fracturing the rim to just making it weighted weirdly. If there is only one row of holes (either centered or staggered) this won't be a big deal, because the spokes will mostly seal the holes.
    These rims are essentially made to order so [within reason] you can ask for whatever spoke hole configuration you need to work with your particular bike with no need for excess unused holes.

    Even with all the holes occupied with spokes I don't think you'll have a waterproof seal to keep moisture out of the interior of the rim though.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    These rims are essentially made to order so [within reason] you can ask for whatever spoke hole configuration you need to work with your particular bike with no need for excess unused holes.

    Even with all the holes occupied with spokes I don't think you'll have a waterproof seal to keep moisture out of the interior of the rim though.

    This^^^

    Do you really think your spoke nipples are water tight? If anything the 64 drilled rims offer MORE opportunity for things to get out, not the other way around. And, as vikb said, it might be a moot point anyway.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    This^^^

    Do you really think your spoke nipples are water tight? If anything the 64 drilled rims offer MORE opportunity for things to get out, not the other way around. And, as vikb said, it might be a moot point anyway.

    Sorry, but I don't agree. Water will flow in quickly, but there's no good way for it to come out because the holes will always be above where the water itself is. I could see some heavy shaking getting some out, but it's not just going to drain.

    With regards to spoke holes being water tight, I think they are pretty well sealed, at least much more than open holes. As evidence, I have a number of wheels with all the spoke holes filled (typical / basic 29er wheels, eyeletted and not) and if I ride slowly through a section of trail that submerges them I don't get a bunch of water inside the box section. Nor does this happen when I wash the bike.

    Just open holes, though? Water is going to flow in and be a pain to get out.

  25. #25
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    Why are you trolling this thread in particular with this double spoke hole crap? There's MANY different rims out there with open holes and places for stuff to get stuck and no one makes a big deal about those rims. It seems anywhere Light-Bicycle is mentioned trolls will appear...

    Oh. And if you must find a solution, go to the hardware store and buy 64 tiny rubber grommets and plug them. It's not a big deal.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Why are you trolling this thread in particular with this double spoke hole crap? There's MANY different rims out there with open holes and places for stuff to get stuck and no one makes a big deal about those rims. It seems anywhere Light-Bicycle is mentioned trolls will appear...

    Oh. And if you must find a solution, go to the hardware store and buy 64 tiny rubber grommets and plug them. It's not a big deal.
    I don't think anyone is trolling and I think all here are very interested in these rims. I think the spoke hole thing is a concern as all the other fat bike rims with unused holes are single wall and they have some kind of rim tape sealing them from the inside. Of coarse everyone here is just speculating because truly we have no fricken idea of what will come out but it's all in good fun.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Why are you trolling this thread in particular with this double spoke hole crap? There's MANY different rims out there with open holes and places for stuff to get stuck and no one makes a big deal about those rims. It seems anywhere Light-Bicycle is mentioned trolls will appear...

    Oh. And if you must find a solution, go to the hardware store and buy 64 tiny rubber grommets and plug them. It's not a big deal.
    It's not a troll, it's a real, honest concern. For what it's worth, I'd emailed light-bicycle a week or so ago and received the same image from them. I've got a set of Hope hubs sitting on the shelf in the basement waiting for me to chose a a rim design to pair them with. Right now I'm torn between Light-Bicycle (based on price and what they make available) and possibly Stan's, depending on how those look.

    What it comes down to is this: If you have open holes in the outside portion of a box section rim, and you put it under water (or pour water on it), water will get in, and it'll be difficult to get out. This'll be a problem for anyone, Light-Bicycle, Sarma, or whoever; fatbike rims or not.

    As an example, being single wall Surly rims don't have this problem because they aren't box section and thus the open holes are essentially plugged with the rim strip and tube, or the tubeless tape.

    I'm hoping that Light-Bicycle offer their rims as 32 hole offset drilled, since this would negate those concerns. I'm not sure I want 32 hole symmetric (right down the center), and I don't see a good good solution for plugging those holes. Plugs (grommets are rings that fit in holes: they have an open center) will be hard to get right, epoxy will be difficult to apply elegantly, same with tape.

  28. #28
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    Also, this is the image that Light-Bicycle sent me when I asked about the rims. I noticed this adds to the OP's image in that it has the mass listed at 670g +/- 15g, and 534mm ERD, and 559mm BSD.

  29. #29
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    300g less than my Clownshoes each..........I like it!!

  30. #30
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    When you buy a set of wheels from LB you get to choose weave, finish, decals or not and spoke holes.

    While I am not in the position to know for sure I would be pretty confident that they will have 1 row of holes wherever the customer wants them. The 29er rims are made to order and drilled according to customer request so I can't see these being any different.
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  31. #31
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    Consumer, they would not give me estimate on weight 2 days ago as the mould is apparently still under construction. I was then told the other two figures you have printed on your rim profile pic.

    Hopefully if the weight has been "revised" its not by too much.
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  32. #32
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    I apologize for the troll comment. I was frustrated with my 5 month old and didn't think my post thru.

    I thought the original Marge rim was double spoke holed but I can't find a pic of one. I'm apparently mistaken and look like a nice sized wanker

    As Ozzy has stated several times, LB let's you pick weave, spoke drillings, etc. so don't give up on these rims. They'll work out in the end. If they only come double rowed, for some crazy reason, there will several of us fat tire engineers come up with a good solution

    I'm more concerned with the tolerances at this point. Regular 26/27.5/29 tires are years into their development and seem to fit much tighter than the fat tires I have in my garage. A hookless design with loose tires on a carbon rim concerns me more than any other aspect as of now.

  33. #33
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    Let me talk out both sides of my mouth here:

    Don't get wound up about a product that doesn't exist yet.

    Contact LightBikes and give them some feedback about your preferred drillings and maybe they will accommodate in future on the product that does not yet exist.

    If neither of these is palatable, pony up for one of the already available Carpet Fibre rims.
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  34. #34
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    How easy is it going to be to get tires on and especially off that rim? It looks loke the smallest diameter is the bead seat until you get way to the center and that is not much smaller. Not that I'm stressing about a rim that isn't made yet.
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  35. #35
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    I hope they do come double rowed....I like the way my Moonlander is laced.

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  36. #36
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    Don't get wound up about a product that doesn't exist yet.
    Half the topics on this forum are about products that don't exist yet, why would this one be any different
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  38. #38
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    is flat inside of the rim an issue with shedding dirt/snow? seems like little curve in cross section there would make sense.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    is flat inside of the rim an issue with shedding dirt/snow? seems like little curve in cross section there would make sense.
    I personally don't think it will be. I find that once snow (and dirt) starts sticking it's just kinda there. I'm not sure making it more domed would help less snow stick. Also, I don't know if the snow being stuck inside of the rim causes much of a problem. If one's riding in snow so deep that this occurs then speeds are usually low enough that the extra bit of weight isn't noticeable. Or at least it isn't to me.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    Sorry, but I don't agree. Water will flow in quickly, but there's no good way for it to come out because the holes will always be above where the water itself is. I could see some heavy shaking getting some out, but it's not just going to drain.

    With regards to spoke holes being water tight, I think they are pretty well sealed, at least much more than open holes. As evidence, I have a number of wheels with all the spoke holes filled (typical / basic 29er wheels, eyeletted and not) and if I ride slowly through a section of trail that submerges them I don't get a bunch of water inside the box section. Nor does this happen when I wash the bike.

    Just open holes, though? Water is going to flow in and be a pain to get out.
    I too care about open spoke holes or also double wall rims that are drilled for weight savings.

    It seems like extra spoke holes are an easy fix though. There are dozens of caulking and sealants available at home improvement stores. Many of them are even designed specifically for sealing small holes water tight. I don't know which one would work best but it is likely that just about any of them would be effective. I'd probably start with a tube of black silicone for less than $5. Squirt it into the holes and squeegee off the excess with a finger or scrap piece of plastic. It would take about as much time as it took to write this post.

    But yeah, i too am looking to buy fat carbon rims with no extra holes that would catch mud, water and ice.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    There are dozens of caulking and sealants available at home improvement stores. Many of them are even designed specifically for sealing small holes water tight. I don't know which one would work best but it is likely that just about any of them would be effective. I'd probably start with a tube of black silicone for less than $5. Squirt it into the holes and squeegee off the excess with a finger or scrap piece of plastic. It would take about as much time as it took to write this post.
    My concern with this will be solvents in the uncured caulk / silicone and potential damage to the (rather pricy) rims. I'd rather not apply something that'll damage the finish, lead to delamination, etc.

  42. #42
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    Guys, forget the silicone and all that. Pick up something like this and plug the holes easily. It's also reversible if you ever needed the other holes.

    NOTE: These are NOT the ones you'd want, but the right size is out there. I'm sure someone will come up with a good link once they had the rims in hand and share with the rest of us

    (H 10PSNR) rubber plug for HP inkjet cartridge without print head free shipping by dhl-in Printer Parts from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    My concern with this will be solvents in the uncured caulk / silicone and potential damage to the (rather pricy) rims. I'd rather not apply something that'll damage the finish, lead to delamination, etc.
    That's a valid concern to reason through.

    My opinion is that there isn't enough volume of chemicals to make any difference whatsoever. Silicone sealant isn't terribly potent. Even the more caustic ones don't seem like a problem. I've used solvents on all my bike gear to remove sticker residue. None have shown any sign of damage. That includes some carbon components.

    Another idea came to mind. I've got bondo and black dye in the basement. That would require a bit more attention for a clean result but would end up pretty much perfect. Edit: And a quick search with google reveals that bondo is used on carbon quite frequently for repairs or custom work.

    With that said, LB has always been willing to do whatever drilling you request. If that is still the case with these rims, we won't even have the opportunity to experiment.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Guys, forget the silicone and all that. Pick up something like this and plug the holes easily. It's also reversible if you ever needed the other holes.

    NOTE: These are NOT the ones you'd want, but the right size is out there. I'm sure someone will come up with a good link once they had the rims in hand and share with the rest of us

    (H 10PSNR) rubber plug for HP inkjet cartridge without print head free shipping by dhl-in Printer Parts from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com
    While this whole discussion probably doesn't apply to LB rims that can be drilled however you want, silicone is easily reversible. Just jab a spoke through the hole and the silicone will pop right out.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    While this whole discussion probably doesn't apply to LB rims that can be drilled however you want, silicone is easily reversible. Just jab a spoke through the hole and the silicone will pop right out.
    You're right. It can be popped out but then you have to fish 64 little globs of silicone out of the inside of the rim. Also, there's the chance of the silicone getting shove thru in basic day to day use unless you leave an unsightly clump exposed on the visible side of the rim. Rubber plugs will only be a few dollars, install quickly and easily and be removed just as fast. Just throwing the option out there to those that don't want mess with silicone and/or worried about damaging the carbon.

    I still think all this doesn't matter since we should be able to request any drilling patter we want. It'd be nice if they had three different options to begin with when you click "Buy" rather than having to custom order them via email And where's the 65mm wide rim??? It's great there's a WIDE option now but there still isn't a narrow option.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Another idea came to mind. I've got bondo and black dye in the basement. That would require a bit more attention for a clean result but would end up pretty much perfect. Edit: And a quick search with google reveals that bondo is used on carbon quite frequently for repairs or custom work.

    With that said, LB has always been willing to do whatever drilling you request. If that is still the case with these rims, we won't even have the opportunity to experiment.
    Now that's an interesting idea... Hmm.

    I do agree, though, they probably will be able to drill them just as desired.

    That all said, I'm trying to think of a reason not to have just a symmetric drilling straight down the center. I'm not sure the offset spokes are really needed to add strength?

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    Offset spokes came about because it made fat bikes possible without needing to manufacture custom hubs. A normal 135mm hub was offset to the drive-side to provide clearance for the chainline past the tire. Then the spoke holes in the rim had to be offset to get the wheel back on center. Surly still makes offset frames so those bikes will require rims drilled for offset lacing. Without that offset, the wheel would probably be too unstable to ride. Thus it isn't to make a stronger than normal wheel but rather to build a wheel that exactly as strong as normal, at least in terms of dishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Offset spokes came about because it made fat bikes possible without needing to manufacture custom hubs. A normal 135mm hub was offset to the drive-side to provide clearance for the chainline past the tire. Then the spoke holes in the rim had to be offset to get the wheel back on center. Surly still makes offset frames so those bikes will require rims drilled for offset lacing. Without that offset, the wheel would probably be too unstable to ride. Thus it isn't to make a stronger than normal wheel but rather to build a wheel that exactly as strong as normal, at least in terms of dishing.
    Thank you for that. That matches my thoughts on it, but after researching spoked motorcycle wheels I found that many of those use a double-row of holes for the nipples as well. This makes me wonder if there is something more to it... Perhaps I should look up Mr. Jobst Brandt.

  49. #49
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    With modern frames having 170 or 190mm rear spacing and 135mm front spacing, there's no reason not to have a single row of spokes in the middle. Then they could make the rim a traditional trianglular shape instead of flat, and both aid with shedding snow and lowering weight. The slanted sides hardly need any thickness, as long as the narrow "roof" where the spokes exit is reinforced.

    For 135mm offset rear hubs, you need both double wall and offset rim to make a good wheel, but I feel that it is very backwards thinking to make this new rim according to those limitations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    With modern frames having 170 or 190mm rear spacing and 135mm front spacing, there's no reason not to have a single row of spokes in the middle.
    I take it you feel there is no additional wheel strength imparted by building with spokes more in line with the flanges? I'd tend to think there is, but I have no proof of it, nor am I sure that it's enough additional strength to matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    For 135mm offset rear hubs, you need both double wall and offset rim to make a good wheel, but I feel that it is very backwards thinking to make this new rim according to those limitations.
    There are so many people successfully running single walled rims of various widths from 50mm to 100mm with 135mm hubs in offset frames there is definitely no need for double walled rims.

    The offset spoke holes are important though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    You're right. It can be popped out but then you have to fish 64 little globs of silicone out of the inside of the rim.
    Not if you poke them from the inside out.

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    The double wall doesn't do it for me. Are the HED double wall?

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    Quote Originally Posted by demondan View Post
    The double wall doesn't do it for me. Are the HED double wall?
    Nope -- HED are single wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    there's no reason not to have a single row of spokes in the middle.
    I need offset drilling for my Lefty.

    A deep triangular section rim would add weight and doesn't appear necessary for strength reasons - if HED can make a ~400gm single wall flat carbon rim with adequate strength then I can't see the need for a massive deep section behemoth.

    There's no reason NOT to have offset drilling (available as an option at least).

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    Yeah saves some weight. Wonder if the Nextie will be a double wall? Also Boaralis are they double wall?

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    NextTie details:

    Highlights:
    - Carbon fiber materials Toray T700
    - 90mm width and 40mm depth
    - Double walled design
    - Tubeless compatible
    - 32 or 36 offset drilling spoke holes
    - Low in price

    I have no experience with this company but might be worth consideration. Looks like they want to deliver early March?

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    My ENVE are double and you'll find nearly all carbon fibre wheels are. The lightness and integrity of the rim probably depends on the tubular construction for strength.

    I cant see any big deal in it, i have no problems with any other wheels that are double, even stan's rims are all "double" walled.

    Actually the only rims i have ridden that i can think of that are single wall construction are Surly fat rims.
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    I would think a double wall with thinner material would be stronger that a single wall with thicker walls. I don't need silly light but lighter with strength is what I would be happy with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by demondan View Post
    Yeah saves some weight. Wonder if the Nextie will be a double wall? Also Boaralis are they double wall?
    Nextie look to be single wall in the rendering (http://www.nextie-bike.com/image/dat...ie-bike-01.png) along with a single row of slightly offset spoke holes in the center. This looks like a very interesting design to me.

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    I too am interested in if single wall carbon fat rims make sense. It doesn't seem inherently better but it could be. Or not.

    For example, carbon bike frames are double walled. So are carbon cranks, forks, seat posts and handlebars. Actually, pretty much everything on a bike is double walled. We tend to think of these "double wall" things as tubes. But in reality a tube or a hollow component is the same thing as double wall.

    But perhaps nextie is onto something with what appears to be a single wall design in the example renders. This isn't certain but it looks single wall given the renders that have been provided. More important might be the deep v cross section. This makes the air volume of the tire considerable bigger.

    Also possible would be a combination design for fat rims. The center could be a double wall v profile that tapers down to merge as single wall for much of the rim width.

    That's all fun speculation but for now I'll be happy with any carbon design that is affordable.

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    My favorite carbon rim design that I've seen so far is this Fatback prototype: New carbon rims from Fatback

    Cutouts, to me, are part of fatbike tradition and a way to infuse some personality into your ride. They're single walled, probably have an excellent tubeless shelf and are offset drilled, which works for me in particular. My only dislike is they're ~$600 a rim and there's no mention of a 65mm width model :/

  64. #64
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    DFYFZX, they look awesome but most are trying to eliminate the weight of tubes and rims strips.... the rest of us are wanting to dump the weight of tubeless tape, foam and the pain in the ass of setting it up.

    IMO if a rim has a double wall and a perfect ramp for inflating tubeless with a track pump like some of the others are (including these LB rims) its worth over 100g more than these.

    Basically these carbon fatback rims (600g) are an expensive Marge Lite (690g) with a 90g penalty.... i can save that going tubeless on the 3 sets of Marge lites i already have.

    Im not saying these LB rims are sh1t hot but the tubeless idea looks good and if the pricing is right it could be a goer.

    BTW i agree that cutouts are FATBIKE !!! I love them.
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    Cutouts are fatbike!



    But I really like these new carbon rims as well, and practically speaking cutouts are not necessary in them: in fact having to cover the holes would add more weight than having the holes saves.

    I have a set of LB 650B AM rims and would definitely trust their fat rims as well.

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    I was excited to see a new post in this thread, having had a vague memory of the LB fat rims becoming available in February. But no such luck.

    Now that everyone is back this week from the chinese new year holiday, perhaps more news will surface. Can anyone comment on the status of LB 90mm rims?


    As for cutouts, wouldn't rimstrips of some sort be required even without cutouts? As a single wall rim, the nipple bases will be sticking into the interior of the rim. I would think rim strips would be needed with tubes no matter what. And with a tubeless setup, the spoke holes would need to be covered too. Is there a way around that in full or in part?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Basically these carbon fatback rims (600g) are an expensive Marge Lite (690g) with a 90g penalty.... i can save that going tubeless on the 3 sets of Marge lites i already have.
    If Fatback was making a carbon version of the UMA 90 mm rim, and that came in at 600 grams, it would be a huge win. The one above is 77mm, if the thread is correct.

    I just converted my UMA 90 using the "pour goop in the wheel method". In more detail, I took the tube out and saw that the 3M reflective rim strip was taped in place with some kind of clear box tape. No noticeable holes showing, so I skipped the 2 layers of Gorilla tape that I have on the rear wheel and pumped it up with an air compressor and 8 oz of goop. It's been 3 days and it's holding air just fine. Great rim design, just a very heavy aluminum rim at a bit over 1000 grams.

    IMHO, the 85mm HED at 445 grams is still the one to beat. That would shave almost 3 pounds off my Fatback. Very tempting, but I'm going to wait and see what Light Bicycles comes out with.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    As for cutouts, wouldn't rimstrips of some sort be required even without cutouts? As a single wall rim, the nipple bases will be sticking into the interior of the rim. I would think rim strips would be needed with tubes no matter what. And with a tubeless setup, the spoke holes would need to be covered too. Is there a way around that in full or in part?
    All the LB diagrams show a double wall rim.

    Just covering the spoke holes would suffice for a tubeless setup, if BSD doesn't have to be built up to make a tighter fit. A narrow strip of Stan's yellow tape would suffice - weighs just a few grams. The amount of tape required to cover cutouts, have them handle the pressure and be durable enough on the outside would definitely weigh more than the carbon removed to make said cutouts.

    As much as I like the aesthetics of cutouts, I think carbon rims are better made solid.

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    no need for double walls. A deeper bead shelf is neded. see HED.

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    Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.

    Perhaps a fun idea to mimic the cut-outs would be to have the final layer (let's say 3k wave) be the one with cut-outs over the structural UD layers, which would look like cut-outs into a 3k rim, with black rim tape ? Or the other way around, UD cut-outs on 3k rim tape, etc.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan View Post
    no need for double walls. A deeper bead shelf is neded. see HED.
    No need for single wall either.

    Depending on the thickness of material needed in a single wall design vs a double wall design, it isn't clear which is lighter for the desired strength. I wouldn't be surprise if a hybrid design becomes popular for fat rims. Double wall in the middle around the spoke holes and single wall on the outer edges. When there isn't any double wall portion, it looks like the alternative is a folded single wall design. Those folds/ridges provide strength in the same way that corrugated steel is stronger than a flat sheet of the same thickness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    All the LB diagrams show a double wall rim.

    Just covering the spoke holes would suffice for a tubeless setup, if BSD doesn't have to be built up to make a tighter fit. A narrow strip of Stan's yellow tape would suffice - weighs just a few grams. The amount of tape required to cover cutouts, have them handle the pressure and be durable enough on the outside would definitely weigh more than the carbon removed to make said cutouts.

    As much as I like the aesthetics of cutouts, I think carbon rims are better made solid.
    Right. I was trying to refer to how cutouts, rim tape, and singe-vs-double wall are all interrelated. Cutouts with a double wall rim have the issue of snow and mud getting caught in the cavity between the walls. Cutouts on a single wall require more significant rim strips because the base of the nipples has to be covered and the tape doesn't sit completely flat next to the nipples.

    It will be interesting to see how the weight and strength of double walled carbon fat rims compare to single wall designs. It is likely that LB fat rims will be roughly 2/3 the cost of HED rims. For me that would justify an increase in weight due to a double wall design, if indeed such an increase exists. It seems like single walls would be easier to manufacture so there must be some reason LB is doing double walls. Anyone care to speculate on why LB is going the double wall route for their fat rims?

  72. #72
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    A single wall rim, but core/skin construction would be best best (for me anyway). Nomex honeycomb core, or light-desitied foams like Corecell etc., with a light skin on each side, would yield low weight and be structurally stiff enough, and be single wall.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Now that everyone is back this week from the chinese new year holiday, perhaps more news will surface. Can anyone comment on the status of LB 90mm rims?
    Oops. It looks like the lantern festival is this Saturday, not last Saturday. Many chinese are still on vacation.

    I know a few people waiting for LB rims and they're all eagerly anticipating the resumption of manufacturing.
    Last edited by dfiler; 02-13-2014 at 10:53 AM. Reason: fixed wrong homonym

  74. #74
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    I'm really hoping for ~$250/rim. They'll sell loads at that price. If they get near $300/rim I think it'll be far fewer.

  75. #75
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    Why do people think the HED is the holy grail of carbon fatty rims??? They're center drilled only which puts huge angles and causes unnecessary stress on spokes/nipples to the point that they won't even let anyone lace them but themselves. Yea. Epic. They're the lightest is all they can claim. The offset crowd can't use them and the symmetrical crowd shouldn't use them anywhere remote because epic spoke failure is looming around every bend. They produce nothing but road wheels and then drop a fatbike wheel out of nowhere? Where are the MTB wheels? Road wheels and a fatty wheel? What leads people to trust that design and declare it the best on the market? I don't get it. I wouldn't run them if you gave them to me! I don't like walking, hence the reason I ride. I most definitely don't like walking and pushing a bike at the same time!

    Rant over...

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Why do people think the HED is the holy grail of carbon fatty rims??? They're center drilled only which puts huge angles and causes unnecessary stress on spokes/nipples to the point that they won't even let anyone lace them but themselves. Yea. Epic. They're the lightest is all they can claim. The offset crowd can't use them and the symmetrical crowd shouldn't use them anywhere remote because epic spoke failure is looming around every bend. They produce nothing but road wheels and then drop a fatbike wheel out of nowhere? Where are the MTB wheels? Road wheels and a fatty wheel? What leads people to trust that design and declare it the best on the market? I don't get it. I wouldn't run them if you gave them to me! I don't like walking, hence the reason I ride. I most definitely don't like walking and pushing a bike at the same time!

    Rant over...
    After you've taken a breath or two and maybe calmed down a touch, perhaps you could provide a little evidence to support your slander of HED's design?

    I don't have a dog in this fight, don't care either way. Would just like to see some fact-based reporting instead of foamy-mouthed hyperbolic conjecture.

    Put another way: I don't see a problem with HED's design. Please clarify why/how you do.

    Cheers,

    MC

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    I figured you of all people would agree that spoke angle is a big deal. A 170mm hub with a wide flange going to a center drilled rim along with a short spoke is a bad thing, is it not? Is it ideal for a $2000 wheelset or would offset drilling be more reliable? If I'm wrong I'll go away and bury my head in the sand. HED praise is all over the net and people keep acting like they're the king of the carbon fat rim mountain at the moment but I can't find any evidence they've ever even made a MTB rim. Am I wrong? It appears to me they jumped on the fatbike bandwagon and people are falling for their inferior design. What would you recommend if someone is going to spend $2000 on a carbon fatbike wheelset? I have a feeling you're playing Devil's advocate and wouldn't want anything to do with their wheel on one of your week+ excursions.

    And "foamy-mouthed hyperbolic conjecture" is the norm on Light-Bicycle threads Personally, I can't wait for their design to drop.

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    Re: Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Would just like to see some fact-based reporting instead of foamy-mouthed hyperbolic conjecture.

    Cheers,

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    Wide spoke angle actually seems preferable if designing from the ground up for an optimal configuration. It sacrifices a bit of radial strength for greater lateral strength. Wheels are already rigid and well supported radially so it is a good tradeoff.

    One issue could be the angle at which spokes enter the rim or hub. However the holes for nipples can be angled to eliminate any bend at the spoke/nipple junction. Some manufactures do this for that exact reason. Does HED? Similarly, hub flanges can be angled to be exactly inline with the spoke. If it were really a problem, it seems likely that hub manufacturers would have already tilted the spoke holes on fat hub flanges.

    Granted, I don't know if inline or alternating offset spoke holes are better for a wide rim. For me that's secondary. I'm just looking for affordable carbon fat rims. HED is well beyond my budget so hopefully light-bicycle can deliver a significantly cheaper option.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I figured you of all people would agree that spoke angle is a big deal. A 170mm hub with a wide flange going to a center drilled rim along with a short spoke is a bad thing, is it not? Is it ideal for a $2000 wheelset or would offset drilling be more reliable? If I'm wrong I'll go away and bury my head in the sand. HED praise is all over the net and people keep acting like they're the king of the carbon fat rim mountain at the moment but I can't find any evidence they've ever even made a MTB rim. Am I wrong? It appears to me they jumped on the fatbike bandwagon and people are falling for their inferior design. What would you recommend if someone is going to spend $2000 on a carbon fatbike wheelset? I have a feeling you're playing Devil's advocate and wouldn't want anything to do with their wheel on one of your week+ excursions.

    And "foamy-mouthed hyperbolic conjecture" is the norm on Light-Bicycle threads Personally, I can't wait for their design to drop.
    Some of your points are potentially valid, but until I've seen one/fondled it/built it/ridden it/analyzed it, I'm not willing to go on record in any direction. Could be awesome, could be poopycakes.

    I don't think HED is trying to hide anything by requiring that you use their builders. Anything potentially hide-able is going to be known after a ~season of riding, regardless. I think they're saving themselves headaches by keeping hamfists from killing a very light, very expensive rim through sheer ignorance if not exuberance. Misbalanced tension is a hallmark of the hamfist, and once you've pulled a spoke/nip through a carbon rim it's tough to go back and hit the do-over button.

    Waiting for a minimum 100mm wide tubeless-ready carbon rim before I consider spending another penny,

    MC

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post

    Waiting for a minimum 100mm wide tubeless-ready carbon rim before I consider spending another penny,

    MC
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soloracer View Post
    I'd take two.
    Same here.

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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I can't find any evidence they've ever even made a MTB rim.
    You must be new to mountain biking.
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    I have zero experience riding Hed rims (not by choice). I have, however, held the bare rim in my hands at a local fatbike expo. Bare rim was flexier IMHO than a Rolling Darryl. I have been told they are very stiff by owners when built. The rims scared me with how light they were honestly. That means NOTHING as far as durability.

    The tubeless design looks to me the best I have ever seen and makes me want the rims based on that, and the glowing reports I have heard from riders.

    FYI, HED did make mtb rims once. I think it was actually another manufacture's alloy rim with their carbon fairing glued on. Was all the rage in MN back in 1996ish.
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logantri View Post
    FYI, HED did make mtb rims once. I think it was actually another manufacture's alloy rim with their carbon fairing glued on. Was all the rage in MN back in 1996ish.
    They made a lot more than just that.
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  87. #87
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    Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.-image.jpg

    Did someone say HED Mtb wheels?! I had a pair and for 1997, they were bad-ass!!

  88. #88
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    Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.

    ^^ sounds very expensive. Looking expensively good too.
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  89. #89
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    Got an email from Carolin - LB 90mm fatbike rims "OK to order" at the end of the month. No details on price or wheelset availability at this point.
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I figured you of all people would agree that spoke angle is a big deal. A 170mm hub with a wide flange going to a center drilled rim along with a short spoke is a bad thing, is it not? Is it ideal for a $2000 wheelset or would offset drilling be more reliable? If I'm wrong I'll go away and bury my head in the sand. HED praise is all over the net and people keep acting like they're the king of the carbon fat rim mountain at the moment but I can't find any evidence they've ever even made a MTB rim. Am I wrong? It appears to me they jumped on the fatbike bandwagon and people are falling for their inferior design. What would you recommend if someone is going to spend $2000 on a carbon fatbike wheelset? I have a feeling you're playing Devil's advocate and wouldn't want anything to do with their wheel on one of your week+ excursions.

    And "foamy-mouthed hyperbolic conjecture" is the norm on Light-Bicycle threads Personally, I can't wait for their design to drop.
    How about some actual numbers? Offset vs non offset.

    The holes on my marge lites are about 25mm apart. The spoke length is about 259mm. The distance between hub flanges is about 76mm.

    When I do the math, that gives me a spoke angle at the hub flange of 5.56 degrees.

    When I calculate it for a non offset, I would need about a 1mm longer spoke and I'd have a spoke angle at the hub flange of 8.39 degrees.

    That gives a difference of 2.83 degrees.

    Is 2.83 degrees a big deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Got an email from Carolin - LB 90mm fatbike rims "OK to order" at the end of the month. No details on price or wheelset availability at this point.
    I can't wait to see these! And price too....

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    any idea if lightbikes are doing a 65mm ish rim? i'm on CS's now but want to build a summer wheelset. Had ML's on my last bike and they rode super nice during the warm seasons.

  93. #93
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    AFAIK, LB is just making a 90mm rim...
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    any update on price etc? LB hasn't responded to my email
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  95. #95
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    Summer Wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by easterntide View Post
    any idea if lightbikes are doing a 65mm ish rim? i'm on CS's now but want to build a summer wheelset. Had ML's on my last bike and they rode super nice during the warm seasons.
    Not sure what frame you have but a great summer setup would be Rabbit Hole rims with Knards, or hopefully the Dirt Wizards by summer time. Compared to Clown Shoes and BFL, I bet you drop about 4 pounds.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    any update on price etc? LB hasn't responded to my email
    I got nothing yet. Watching the website though...
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    Nextie said theirs will be about $270 each weighing about 670g.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Nextie said theirs will be about $270 each weighing about 670g.
    That's not bad.... considering a Marge Lite here in Oz was $220 a rim.

    (I buy from Jensons with a pricematch)
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
    Not sure what frame you have but a great summer setup would be Rabbit Hole rims with Knards, or hopefully the Dirt Wizards by summer time. Compared to Clown Shoes and BFL, I bet you drop about 4 pounds.
    interesting idea. i've got a Borealis. have a 'fork of many names' for the front summer use. do you legitimatly think that it'd be a significant weight loss vs a 65mm carbon rim + 120tpi nate?

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    It seems these rims will be available tomorrow.

    Kinda want some, but what I really want is something in the 70mm range, hookless, preferably well under 600gm and $250.

    Too much to hope for?

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