There are so many people successfully running single walled rims of various widths from 50mm to 100mm with 135mm hubs in offset frames there is definitely no need for double walled rims.
Originally Posted by Ole
The offset spoke holes are important though.
Not if you poke them from the inside out.
Originally Posted by DFYFZX
The double wall doesn't do it for me. Are the HED double wall?
Nope -- HED are single wall.
Originally Posted by demondan
I need offset drilling for my Lefty.
Originally Posted by Ole
A deep triangular section rim would add weight and doesn't appear necessary for strength reasons - if HED can make a ~400gm single wall flat carbon rim with adequate strength then I can't see the need for a massive deep section behemoth.
There's no reason NOT to have offset drilling (available as an option at least).
Yeah saves some weight. Wonder if the Nextie will be a double wall? Also Boaralis are they double wall?
- Carbon fiber materials Toray T700
- 90mm width and 40mm depth
- Double walled design
- Tubeless compatible
- 32 or 36 offset drilling spoke holes
- Low in price
I have no experience with this company but might be worth consideration. Looks like they want to deliver early March?
My ENVE are double and you'll find nearly all carbon fibre wheels are. The lightness and integrity of the rim probably depends on the tubular construction for strength.
I cant see any big deal in it, i have no problems with any other wheels that are double, even stan's rims are all "double" walled.
Actually the only rims i have ridden that i can think of that are single wall construction are Surly fat rims.
I would think a double wall with thinner material would be stronger that a single wall with thicker walls. I don't need silly light but lighter with strength is what I would be happy with.
Nextie look to be single wall in the rendering (http://www.nextie-bike.com/image/dat...ie-bike-01.png) along with a single row of slightly offset spoke holes in the center. This looks like a very interesting design to me.
Originally Posted by demondan
I too am interested in if single wall carbon fat rims make sense. It doesn't seem inherently better but it could be. Or not.
For example, carbon bike frames are double walled. So are carbon cranks, forks, seat posts and handlebars. Actually, pretty much everything on a bike is double walled. We tend to think of these "double wall" things as tubes. But in reality a tube or a hollow component is the same thing as double wall.
But perhaps nextie is onto something with what appears to be a single wall design in the example renders. This isn't certain but it looks single wall given the renders that have been provided. More important might be the deep v cross section. This makes the air volume of the tire considerable bigger.
Also possible would be a combination design for fat rims. The center could be a double wall v profile that tapers down to merge as single wall for much of the rim width.
That's all fun speculation but for now I'll be happy with any carbon design that is affordable.
My favorite carbon rim design that I've seen so far is this Fatback prototype: New carbon rims from Fatback
Cutouts, to me, are part of fatbike tradition and a way to infuse some personality into your ride. They're single walled, probably have an excellent tubeless shelf and are offset drilled, which works for me in particular. My only dislike is they're ~$600 a rim and there's no mention of a 65mm width model :/
DFYFZX, they look awesome but most are trying to eliminate the weight of tubes and rims strips.... the rest of us are wanting to dump the weight of tubeless tape, foam and the pain in the ass of setting it up.
IMO if a rim has a double wall and a perfect ramp for inflating tubeless with a track pump like some of the others are (including these LB rims) its worth over 100g more than these.
Basically these carbon fatback rims (600g) are an expensive Marge Lite (690g) with a 90g penalty.... i can save that going tubeless on the 3 sets of Marge lites i already have.
Im not saying these LB rims are sh1t hot but the tubeless idea looks good and if the pricing is right it could be a goer.
BTW i agree that cutouts are FATBIKE !!! I love them.
Cutouts are fatbike!
But I really like these new carbon rims as well, and practically speaking cutouts are not necessary in them: in fact having to cover the holes would add more weight than having the holes saves.
I have a set of LB 650B AM rims and would definitely trust their fat rims as well.
I was excited to see a new post in this thread, having had a vague memory of the LB fat rims becoming available in February. But no such luck.
Now that everyone is back this week from the chinese new year holiday, perhaps more news will surface. Can anyone comment on the status of LB 90mm rims?
As for cutouts, wouldn't rimstrips of some sort be required even without cutouts? As a single wall rim, the nipple bases will be sticking into the interior of the rim. I would think rim strips would be needed with tubes no matter what. And with a tubeless setup, the spoke holes would need to be covered too. Is there a way around that in full or in part?
If Fatback was making a carbon version of the UMA 90 mm rim, and that came in at 600 grams, it would be a huge win. The one above is 77mm, if the thread is correct.
Originally Posted by ozzybmx
I just converted my UMA 90 using the "pour goop in the wheel method". In more detail, I took the tube out and saw that the 3M reflective rim strip was taped in place with some kind of clear box tape. No noticeable holes showing, so I skipped the 2 layers of Gorilla tape that I have on the rear wheel and pumped it up with an air compressor and 8 oz of goop. It's been 3 days and it's holding air just fine. Great rim design, just a very heavy aluminum rim at a bit over 1000 grams.
IMHO, the 85mm HED at 445 grams is still the one to beat. That would shave almost 3 pounds off my Fatback. Very tempting, but I'm going to wait and see what Light Bicycles comes out with.
All the LB diagrams show a double wall rim.
Originally Posted by dfiler
Just covering the spoke holes would suffice for a tubeless setup, if BSD doesn't have to be built up to make a tighter fit. A narrow strip of Stan's yellow tape would suffice - weighs just a few grams. The amount of tape required to cover cutouts, have them handle the pressure and be durable enough on the outside would definitely weigh more than the carbon removed to make said cutouts.
As much as I like the aesthetics of cutouts, I think carbon rims are better made solid.
no need for double walls. A deeper bead shelf is neded. see HED.
Light-Bicycle fat 90mm carbon rim.
Perhaps a fun idea to mimic the cut-outs would be to have the final layer (let's say 3k wave) be the one with cut-outs over the structural UD layers, which would look like cut-outs into a 3k rim, with black rim tape ? Or the other way around, UD cut-outs on 3k rim tape, etc.
Originally Posted by NicoleB28
No need for single wall either.
Originally Posted by buggymancan
Depending on the thickness of material needed in a single wall design vs a double wall design, it isn't clear which is lighter for the desired strength. I wouldn't be surprise if a hybrid design becomes popular for fat rims. Double wall in the middle around the spoke holes and single wall on the outer edges. When there isn't any double wall portion, it looks like the alternative is a folded single wall design. Those folds/ridges provide strength in the same way that corrugated steel is stronger than a flat sheet of the same thickness.
Right. I was trying to refer to how cutouts, rim tape, and singe-vs-double wall are all interrelated. Cutouts with a double wall rim have the issue of snow and mud getting caught in the cavity between the walls. Cutouts on a single wall require more significant rim strips because the base of the nipples has to be covered and the tape doesn't sit completely flat next to the nipples.
Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko
It will be interesting to see how the weight and strength of double walled carbon fat rims compare to single wall designs. It is likely that LB fat rims will be roughly 2/3 the cost of HED rims. For me that would justify an increase in weight due to a double wall design, if indeed such an increase exists. It seems like single walls would be easier to manufacture so there must be some reason LB is doing double walls. Anyone care to speculate on why LB is going the double wall route for their fat rims?
A single wall rim, but core/skin construction would be best best (for me anyway). Nomex honeycomb core, or light-desitied foams like Corecell etc., with a light skin on each side, would yield low weight and be structurally stiff enough, and be single wall.
Oops. It looks like the lantern festival is this Saturday, not last Saturday. Many chinese are still on vacation.
Originally Posted by dfiler
I know a few people waiting for LB rims and they're all eagerly anticipating the resumption of manufacturing.
Last edited by dfiler; 02-13-2014 at 10:53 AM.
Reason: fixed wrong homonym
I'm really hoping for ~$250/rim. They'll sell loads at that price. If they get near $300/rim I think it'll be far fewer.
Why do people think the HED is the holy grail of carbon fatty rims??? They're center drilled only which puts huge angles and causes unnecessary stress on spokes/nipples to the point that they won't even let anyone lace them but themselves. Yea. Epic. They're the lightest is all they can claim. The offset crowd can't use them and the symmetrical crowd shouldn't use them anywhere remote because epic spoke failure is looming around every bend. They produce nothing but road wheels and then drop a fatbike wheel out of nowhere? Where are the MTB wheels? Road wheels and a fatty wheel? What leads people to trust that design and declare it the best on the market? I don't get it. I wouldn't run them if you gave them to me! I don't like walking, hence the reason I ride. I most definitely don't like walking and pushing a bike at the same time!
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