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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Why are you trolling this thread in particular with this double spoke hole crap? There's MANY different rims out there with open holes and places for stuff to get stuck and no one makes a big deal about those rims. It seems anywhere Light-Bicycle is mentioned trolls will appear...

    Oh. And if you must find a solution, go to the hardware store and buy 64 tiny rubber grommets and plug them. It's not a big deal.
    I don't think anyone is trolling and I think all here are very interested in these rims. I think the spoke hole thing is a concern as all the other fat bike rims with unused holes are single wall and they have some kind of rim tape sealing them from the inside. Of coarse everyone here is just speculating because truly we have no fricken idea of what will come out but it's all in good fun.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Why are you trolling this thread in particular with this double spoke hole crap? There's MANY different rims out there with open holes and places for stuff to get stuck and no one makes a big deal about those rims. It seems anywhere Light-Bicycle is mentioned trolls will appear...

    Oh. And if you must find a solution, go to the hardware store and buy 64 tiny rubber grommets and plug them. It's not a big deal.
    It's not a troll, it's a real, honest concern. For what it's worth, I'd emailed light-bicycle a week or so ago and received the same image from them. I've got a set of Hope hubs sitting on the shelf in the basement waiting for me to chose a a rim design to pair them with. Right now I'm torn between Light-Bicycle (based on price and what they make available) and possibly Stan's, depending on how those look.

    What it comes down to is this: If you have open holes in the outside portion of a box section rim, and you put it under water (or pour water on it), water will get in, and it'll be difficult to get out. This'll be a problem for anyone, Light-Bicycle, Sarma, or whoever; fatbike rims or not.

    As an example, being single wall Surly rims don't have this problem because they aren't box section and thus the open holes are essentially plugged with the rim strip and tube, or the tubeless tape.

    I'm hoping that Light-Bicycle offer their rims as 32 hole offset drilled, since this would negate those concerns. I'm not sure I want 32 hole symmetric (right down the center), and I don't see a good good solution for plugging those holes. Plugs (grommets are rings that fit in holes: they have an open center) will be hard to get right, epoxy will be difficult to apply elegantly, same with tape.

  3. #28
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    Also, this is the image that Light-Bicycle sent me when I asked about the rims. I noticed this adds to the OP's image in that it has the mass listed at 670g +/- 15g, and 534mm ERD, and 559mm BSD.

  4. #29
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    300g less than my Clownshoes each..........I like it!!

  5. #30
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    When you buy a set of wheels from LB you get to choose weave, finish, decals or not and spoke holes.

    While I am not in the position to know for sure I would be pretty confident that they will have 1 row of holes wherever the customer wants them. The 29er rims are made to order and drilled according to customer request so I can't see these being any different.
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  6. #31
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    Consumer, they would not give me estimate on weight 2 days ago as the mould is apparently still under construction. I was then told the other two figures you have printed on your rim profile pic.

    Hopefully if the weight has been "revised" its not by too much.
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  7. #32
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    I apologize for the troll comment. I was frustrated with my 5 month old and didn't think my post thru.

    I thought the original Marge rim was double spoke holed but I can't find a pic of one. I'm apparently mistaken and look like a nice sized wanker

    As Ozzy has stated several times, LB let's you pick weave, spoke drillings, etc. so don't give up on these rims. They'll work out in the end. If they only come double rowed, for some crazy reason, there will several of us fat tire engineers come up with a good solution

    I'm more concerned with the tolerances at this point. Regular 26/27.5/29 tires are years into their development and seem to fit much tighter than the fat tires I have in my garage. A hookless design with loose tires on a carbon rim concerns me more than any other aspect as of now.

  8. #33
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    Let me talk out both sides of my mouth here:

    Don't get wound up about a product that doesn't exist yet.

    Contact LightBikes and give them some feedback about your preferred drillings and maybe they will accommodate in future on the product that does not yet exist.

    If neither of these is palatable, pony up for one of the already available Carpet Fibre rims.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  9. #34
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    How easy is it going to be to get tires on and especially off that rim? It looks loke the smallest diameter is the bead seat until you get way to the center and that is not much smaller. Not that I'm stressing about a rim that isn't made yet.
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  10. #35
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    I hope they do come double rowed....I like the way my Moonlander is laced.

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  11. #36
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    Gone
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    Don't get wound up about a product that doesn't exist yet.
    Half the topics on this forum are about products that don't exist yet, why would this one be any different
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  13. #38
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    is flat inside of the rim an issue with shedding dirt/snow? seems like little curve in cross section there would make sense.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    is flat inside of the rim an issue with shedding dirt/snow? seems like little curve in cross section there would make sense.
    I personally don't think it will be. I find that once snow (and dirt) starts sticking it's just kinda there. I'm not sure making it more domed would help less snow stick. Also, I don't know if the snow being stuck inside of the rim causes much of a problem. If one's riding in snow so deep that this occurs then speeds are usually low enough that the extra bit of weight isn't noticeable. Or at least it isn't to me.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    Sorry, but I don't agree. Water will flow in quickly, but there's no good way for it to come out because the holes will always be above where the water itself is. I could see some heavy shaking getting some out, but it's not just going to drain.

    With regards to spoke holes being water tight, I think they are pretty well sealed, at least much more than open holes. As evidence, I have a number of wheels with all the spoke holes filled (typical / basic 29er wheels, eyeletted and not) and if I ride slowly through a section of trail that submerges them I don't get a bunch of water inside the box section. Nor does this happen when I wash the bike.

    Just open holes, though? Water is going to flow in and be a pain to get out.
    I too care about open spoke holes or also double wall rims that are drilled for weight savings.

    It seems like extra spoke holes are an easy fix though. There are dozens of caulking and sealants available at home improvement stores. Many of them are even designed specifically for sealing small holes water tight. I don't know which one would work best but it is likely that just about any of them would be effective. I'd probably start with a tube of black silicone for less than $5. Squirt it into the holes and squeegee off the excess with a finger or scrap piece of plastic. It would take about as much time as it took to write this post.

    But yeah, i too am looking to buy fat carbon rims with no extra holes that would catch mud, water and ice.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    There are dozens of caulking and sealants available at home improvement stores. Many of them are even designed specifically for sealing small holes water tight. I don't know which one would work best but it is likely that just about any of them would be effective. I'd probably start with a tube of black silicone for less than $5. Squirt it into the holes and squeegee off the excess with a finger or scrap piece of plastic. It would take about as much time as it took to write this post.
    My concern with this will be solvents in the uncured caulk / silicone and potential damage to the (rather pricy) rims. I'd rather not apply something that'll damage the finish, lead to delamination, etc.

  17. #42
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    Guys, forget the silicone and all that. Pick up something like this and plug the holes easily. It's also reversible if you ever needed the other holes.

    NOTE: These are NOT the ones you'd want, but the right size is out there. I'm sure someone will come up with a good link once they had the rims in hand and share with the rest of us

    (H 10PSNR) rubber plug for HP inkjet cartridge without print head free shipping by dhl-in Printer Parts from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    My concern with this will be solvents in the uncured caulk / silicone and potential damage to the (rather pricy) rims. I'd rather not apply something that'll damage the finish, lead to delamination, etc.
    That's a valid concern to reason through.

    My opinion is that there isn't enough volume of chemicals to make any difference whatsoever. Silicone sealant isn't terribly potent. Even the more caustic ones don't seem like a problem. I've used solvents on all my bike gear to remove sticker residue. None have shown any sign of damage. That includes some carbon components.

    Another idea came to mind. I've got bondo and black dye in the basement. That would require a bit more attention for a clean result but would end up pretty much perfect. Edit: And a quick search with google reveals that bondo is used on carbon quite frequently for repairs or custom work.

    With that said, LB has always been willing to do whatever drilling you request. If that is still the case with these rims, we won't even have the opportunity to experiment.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Guys, forget the silicone and all that. Pick up something like this and plug the holes easily. It's also reversible if you ever needed the other holes.

    NOTE: These are NOT the ones you'd want, but the right size is out there. I'm sure someone will come up with a good link once they had the rims in hand and share with the rest of us

    (H 10PSNR) rubber plug for HP inkjet cartridge without print head free shipping by dhl-in Printer Parts from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com
    While this whole discussion probably doesn't apply to LB rims that can be drilled however you want, silicone is easily reversible. Just jab a spoke through the hole and the silicone will pop right out.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    While this whole discussion probably doesn't apply to LB rims that can be drilled however you want, silicone is easily reversible. Just jab a spoke through the hole and the silicone will pop right out.
    You're right. It can be popped out but then you have to fish 64 little globs of silicone out of the inside of the rim. Also, there's the chance of the silicone getting shove thru in basic day to day use unless you leave an unsightly clump exposed on the visible side of the rim. Rubber plugs will only be a few dollars, install quickly and easily and be removed just as fast. Just throwing the option out there to those that don't want mess with silicone and/or worried about damaging the carbon.

    I still think all this doesn't matter since we should be able to request any drilling patter we want. It'd be nice if they had three different options to begin with when you click "Buy" rather than having to custom order them via email And where's the 65mm wide rim??? It's great there's a WIDE option now but there still isn't a narrow option.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Another idea came to mind. I've got bondo and black dye in the basement. That would require a bit more attention for a clean result but would end up pretty much perfect. Edit: And a quick search with google reveals that bondo is used on carbon quite frequently for repairs or custom work.

    With that said, LB has always been willing to do whatever drilling you request. If that is still the case with these rims, we won't even have the opportunity to experiment.
    Now that's an interesting idea... Hmm.

    I do agree, though, they probably will be able to drill them just as desired.

    That all said, I'm trying to think of a reason not to have just a symmetric drilling straight down the center. I'm not sure the offset spokes are really needed to add strength?

  22. #47
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    Offset spokes came about because it made fat bikes possible without needing to manufacture custom hubs. A normal 135mm hub was offset to the drive-side to provide clearance for the chainline past the tire. Then the spoke holes in the rim had to be offset to get the wheel back on center. Surly still makes offset frames so those bikes will require rims drilled for offset lacing. Without that offset, the wheel would probably be too unstable to ride. Thus it isn't to make a stronger than normal wheel but rather to build a wheel that exactly as strong as normal, at least in terms of dishing.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Offset spokes came about because it made fat bikes possible without needing to manufacture custom hubs. A normal 135mm hub was offset to the drive-side to provide clearance for the chainline past the tire. Then the spoke holes in the rim had to be offset to get the wheel back on center. Surly still makes offset frames so those bikes will require rims drilled for offset lacing. Without that offset, the wheel would probably be too unstable to ride. Thus it isn't to make a stronger than normal wheel but rather to build a wheel that exactly as strong as normal, at least in terms of dishing.
    Thank you for that. That matches my thoughts on it, but after researching spoked motorcycle wheels I found that many of those use a double-row of holes for the nipples as well. This makes me wonder if there is something more to it... Perhaps I should look up Mr. Jobst Brandt.

  24. #49
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    With modern frames having 170 or 190mm rear spacing and 135mm front spacing, there's no reason not to have a single row of spokes in the middle. Then they could make the rim a traditional trianglular shape instead of flat, and both aid with shedding snow and lowering weight. The slanted sides hardly need any thickness, as long as the narrow "roof" where the spokes exit is reinforced.

    For 135mm offset rear hubs, you need both double wall and offset rim to make a good wheel, but I feel that it is very backwards thinking to make this new rim according to those limitations.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    With modern frames having 170 or 190mm rear spacing and 135mm front spacing, there's no reason not to have a single row of spokes in the middle.
    I take it you feel there is no additional wheel strength imparted by building with spokes more in line with the flanges? I'd tend to think there is, but I have no proof of it, nor am I sure that it's enough additional strength to matter.

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