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  1. #1
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    Let's beat a dead horse... Frame?

    I've used the search button and google but I'm getting overwhelmed here. Mind helping me out?

    I wish I understood frame geometry because that would help me **** tons but unfortunately I do not. Maybe you can show me what to look for.

    Me.. 5'11" 180-220lbs depending on the shoes. Currently riding a Surly Ogre and it's not quite cutting it after riding around with the fatbike guys for the past year. About a year ago I got in a little tussle with law enforcement and lost my driving privileges and being a fan of cycling I adopted the idea of doing it full time and bought myself a versatile "do-it-all" bike. While it's very well capable of doing most things it certainly doesn't wet the whistle when it comes to "bombing" and "stomping". It's better suited to taking her nice and easy over sticks and stones or hauling a fat load of groceries home from the store or getting loaded up with a plethora of camping **** for the weekend or a year if I so choose.

    When I bought the Ogre I had no intention of riding it this way but lately I've been trying to push it and it just doesn't want anything to do with it. So I think I'm going to start building myself a new bike and keep the Ogre for my more casual trail riding and bike camping endeavors/grocery getting.

    For I have not ridden any fatbike I cannot say what I like and do not like as of yet but I can tell you what I may be looking for and hopefully you can point me in the right direction and make my experience a little easier.

    I want a frame that accepts a suspension fork that will be easy to throw around on the ground and in the air summer and winter alike. I'd like to be able to get the bike off the ground just in case I need to hope over a log or climb up a giant ass boulder. Currently I'm in Utah but probably won't have the bike built in time to do any riding while I'm here so most of my riding will be back in Alaska (if I make it there). Snow, most of the year, will be a fair portion of my riding but not the majority. I'd like a frame that accepts a variety of sized rubber, from 29ers to as fat as possible, if possible.

    I know the usual. Surly, Salsa, 9zero7 and Fatbacks but I'm not sure which would be best suited for what I'm looking for. I've checked out the Sandman bikes and they seem to be what I'm looking for in a summer style ride but not sure if they accept anything fatter than 3.8" rubber.

    Although this guy is light years beyond my riding ability I find it inspirational.


    Thanks for being rad and keep on keepin' on fellas.

  2. #2
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    Sandman promotional video is pretty dope and I'm sure you've seen it

  3. #3
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    Man I'm getting so lost. Running into On One Fattys and Carver O'Beasts

  4. #4
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    I understand your dilemma, I think. Very few shop carry more than one fat bike (if any at all) to compare, so it's kind of a leap of faith. You will never find the perfect bike for everything, but maybe start by deciding what is most important to you. Off-set or symmetrical rear end? If symmetrical, 170 or 190 rear end? Steel or alu? Once you get past those, look at head tube angles and BB heights like you would any other bike (steeper for more XC like handling, slack for more trail-oriented riding). Drivetrain- 1x, 2x or 3x? Almost every fat bike can handle a 4.8 BFL out back, but drivetrain adjustments need to be made. You will get lots of opinions on what is the best bike, but it took me three tries to find one that I really like- it's a very personal choice.

  5. #5
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    As far as suspension true corrected that's a tough one right now. You mentioned Sandman which from what I can find is pretty much the only true frame made for sus out right now. Not saying you can't run one on the other type frame and people on here do and I'm sure they will chime in and say it works fine but me personally i would hold off a little bit and see what the near future brings. That being said I was would check out Muru Cycles and Carver if my u don't mind TI.
    And I love beer!!

  6. #6
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    One thought- 3.8 is plenty fat. At your size (which is roughly the same as my size) there's not a lot of float on fresh, unpacked snow and once the snow is packed down by snowmobiles or whatever, 3.8 is fine. and on a trail, 3.8 is plenty.

    The costs of the extra fat are more expensive tires, more expensive frames, more expensive rims and more expensive hubs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuxdiesel View Post
    I understand your dilemma, I think. Very few shop carry more than one fat bike (if any at all) to compare, so it's kind of a leap of faith. You will never find the perfect bike for everything, but maybe start by deciding what is most important to you. Off-set or symmetrical rear end? If symmetrical, 170 or 190 rear end? Steel or alu? Once you get past those, look at head tube angles and BB heights like you would any other bike (steeper for more XC like handling, slack for more trail-oriented riding). Drivetrain- 1x, 2x or 3x? Almost every fat bike can handle a 4.8 BFL out back, but drivetrain adjustments need to be made. You will get lots of opinions on what is the best bike, but it took me three tries to find one that I really like- it's a very personal choice.
    So I'm looking at the 9zero7 190mm right now and it has somewhat similar geometry to a Surly Krampus which seems to be designed for the style of riding I wish to do.

    The 9zero7 has a 1" longer chainstay which I'm assuming makes it more difficult to get the front end off the ground. Would I be correct in assuming that?

  8. #8
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    I guess I'm looking for a Krampus style geometry that allows for larger tires

  9. #9
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    I think I might have something for you..we'll send out a press release with the details VERY soon
    DW
    Zen Bicycle Fabrication, Portland, Or.

  10. #10
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    Oh man! Such a tease

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    One thought- 3.8 is plenty fat. At your size (which is roughly the same as my size) there's not a lot of float on fresh, unpacked snow and once the snow is packed down by snowmobiles or whatever, 3.8 is fine. and on a trail, 3.8 is plenty.

    The costs of the extra fat are more expensive tires, more expensive frames, more expensive rims and more expensive hubs.
    I can't see myself running anything fatter than 4" but I see there are so many new frames emerging from the woods I figured if there was one that would meet my needs/desires that also accommodated that "what-ifs" for future proof sake I might as well do some research to try and find it. Know what I'm sayin'!? I just don't want to be stuck with something that is limited in one area that I'd like to have as a possibility.

  12. #12
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    what's your budget for the frame?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JChasse View Post
    what's your budget for the frame?
    Now thats the question isn't it? What can $300 get me? I kid! The bike is in the planning stages at the moment as you probably have guessed by now and im in no real hurry. If anything the bike won't be getting started until next year I do have ample time to save up for wherever this crazy idea takes me. I'd rather not get too crazy but if I need to spend the money to get what i want then so be it. Looks like i might be going custom at this point pending what the future of sport has in store for us. Hopefully somebody has an answer for me production wise in the next year but if not i dont mind spending around $2000 on a frame if i have to.

  14. #14
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    More to come..

    29r trail geo with 29+ or 4.0 tire capacity
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Let's beat a dead horse...  Frame?-img_1870sm.jpg  

    Zen Bicycle Fabrication, Portland, Or.

  15. #15
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    Hurry up with more info! That looks like exactly what I'm looking for. Scared of the pricing though!
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoismestas View Post
    I can't see myself running anything fatter than 4" but I see there are so many new frames emerging from the woods I figured if there was one that would meet my needs/desires that also accommodated that "what-ifs" for future proof sake I might as well do some research to try and find it. Know what I'm sayin'!? I just don't want to be stuck with something that is limited in one area that I'd like to have as a possibility.
    Totally get it- clearance for big tires is definitely not the issue it once was.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Zen View Post
    29r trail geo with 29+ or 4.0 tire capacity
    keep me posted! This looks promising

  18. #18
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    Keep us all posted! I love my Krampus, but it won't take 4" tires, and I love my Mukluk, as it will take both 29+ and any fat tire, but the geo is more XC than trail. A combination of the two would be exactly what I would want.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuxdiesel View Post
    Keep us all posted! I love my Krampus, but it won't take 4" tires, and I love my Mukluk, as it will take both 29+ and any fat tire, but the geo is more XC than trail. A combination of the two would be exactly what I would want.
    The head tube angle on the Muk and the Krampus are both 69.5 deg, CS and BB drop are about the same. Fork offset is only 2mm longer on the Krampus.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  20. #20
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    With both set up on 29+ Knards, there is a very noticeable feel between them. The longer fork and shorter wheel base of the Krampus make it way more agile in tight conditions. A Krampus with a 170 rear end would be my vote. Everyone's different however. It is interesting to see how many custom 29+ frames are out there now- no doubt it will outpace fat bikes in market share due to the normal hubs and BB's they take. I expect more suspension forks for this format than true fat bikes in the future.

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