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  1. #1
    Flucod
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    Laying the Fattie down!

    Have become much more aggressive since getting my fat bike and today paid the price. I have felt so steady going through rock gardens, log jumps and nose wheelies that I just took everything for granted. Came across a long icy section today and thought " Well I am on the Fattie, no worries" and before I knew it I was on my butt looking up with a sore knee and butt. My wife said, you were riding and then boom down. I guess i am not invincible on it

  2. #2
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    I had an incident on a patch of unexpected ice last winter where I wound up facing 180 degrees from the direction I was actually moving. Somehow I managed to stay upright. I still can't explain exactly what happened. I just remember the dazed feeling I had when the bike stopped on some dry dirt.

  3. #3
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    No tire is safe on ice unless studded.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Snow - ice are 2 different things. You don't need studs in snow.

  5. #5
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    on ice nothing is safe. Imho

  6. #6
    Jammin' Econo
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    "I've been mt biking for 25 years and I don't plan on ever getting a MOPED"
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  7. #7
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    Not so RD, the 3/8" pancake head steel stud framing screws stick to ANY kind of ice like a Nate to warm pavement. . The difference between factory studded and screw studs is amazing .
    But, if all you have is a now and then short section of ice, I can understand not wanting to invest in studs. But if your on frozen dirt and some snow. Sooner or later you are gonna b on ice. On frozen dirt , factory studs aren't a noticeable detriment. And they can save a serious injury. IMO they are cheap insurance. At $110. Per tire Grip Studs are cheaper than 1 doctors visit.

  8. #8
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    Snow - ice are 2 different things. You don't need studs in snow.
    BS, studs help immensely in snow.

    Now, if your snow is such that after a few days it's melted and gone and the world has returned to normal with no ice, then ok, but otherwise, on packed snow, and even in powder, studs help immensely. Like little claws on each of your knobs. Stand and pedal up a hill. Lean it over more in the turn. All sorts of goodness.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    BS, studs help immensely in snow.

    Now, if your snow is such that after a few days it's melted and gone and the world has returned to normal with no ice, then ok, but otherwise, on packed snow, and even in powder, studs help immensely. Like little claws on each of your knobs. Stand and pedal up a hill. Lean it over more in the turn. All sorts of goodness.
    Fair enough

  10. #10
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    haha reminds me of my ride yesterday. I was absolutely ripping along a nicely packed trail having the time of my life... traction was amazing.. got a little careless and let my front wheel drift off to the side a bit... next thing i know my front wheel was buried to the hub and i was laying in the snow 10 feet away... oops...

  11. #11
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    I disagree, having ridden studded and un studded in snow, I found no noticeable difference. IMHO, Its only on ice that studs help. I'm talking about the small embedded factory studs not the sheet metal screws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    BS, studs help immensely in snow.

    Now, if your snow is such that after a few days it's melted and gone and the world has returned to normal with no ice, then ok, but otherwise, on packed snow, and even in powder, studs help immensely. Like little claws on each of your knobs. Stand and pedal up a hill. Lean it over more in the turn. All sorts of goodness.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    I disagree, having ridden studded and un studded in snow, I found no noticeable difference. IMHO, Its only on ice that studs help. I'm talking about the small embedded factory studs not the sheet metal screws.
    That's been my experience with other vehicles - I just wasn't in the mood to debate it. The more icy things get, the more studs come into play. Soft snow - not in my experience.

  13. #13
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    Studs certainly make a difference in hard snow and glazed snow that's gone thru a few freeze-thaw cycles. I have not noticed a difference in soft snow but no doubt in my mind they are not only for ice. I have many miles riding bikes on snow and ice with a variety of stud types.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    Studs certainly make a difference in hard snow and glazed snow that's gone thru a few freeze-thaw cycles. I have not noticed a difference in soft snow but no doubt in my mind they are not only for ice. I have many miles riding bikes on snow and ice with a variety of stud types.
    If the tire lugs are punching into the snow (and not finding ice) then the studs are superfluous. The argument can be made in some areas that on a winter ride you can encounter all of the above - therefore studs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    If the tire lugs are punching into the snow (and not finding ice) then the studs are superfluous.
    I don't agree, the stud will dig into the compressed snow beneath the tire and allow even more traction. Why wouldn't it?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  16. #16
    Rocking on a Rocky
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    I've been scared to click on this thread. Glad it is about a fat bike.
    It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  17. #17
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    I suppose it would if the snow was that compressed/icy. So many different types of snow/conditions. Again I can see in some places they just make sense.

  18. #18
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    I guess all the argument must be by bike racers that are in the pack.or close to the pack so they only win by a bike length. And need the lightest weight everything.
    For the recreational rider it doesn't make ANY sense to not stud up if there's any ice encountered. And even less to argue about it. But, what do I know. I'm just an old guy that wants to.enjoy a bike ride without a trip to the ER.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Trigger Finger View Post
    I guess all the argument must be by bike racers that are in the pack.or close to the pack so they only win by a bike length.
    Nobody here is arguing.
    Studs are for ice - if you're in any danger of encountering ice then studs make sense.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I don't agree, the stud will dig into the compressed snow beneath the tire and allow even more traction. Why wouldn't it?
    It will but compared to the tread blocks, at least on my Escalators, the studs are very small. They stick out just over a mm and are less than 2 mm in diameter. So they do add surface area and must add some traction in loose snow. But for me they are not a game changer. I have used the tires with studs and without and except on ice I could not tell much difference. That said not many downsides to having them in the snow and big downside to not having them on ice.
    Latitude 61

  21. #21
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    This stud pattern does make some noise, and does add a small amount of vibration on bare pavement . But on ice it works awesome. Even in tight cornering.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I don't agree, the stud will dig into the compressed snow beneath the tire and allow even more traction. Why wouldn't it?
    I so seldom disagree with your assertions, I can't recall the last time I did.

    But this? This is just silly talk.

    Snow, compressed to the point of being "biteable" by a stud, is known as ice.....

    Crust, hardpack, windblown pack, old beaten down, boot packed stuff, never found studs to be of any help, fat or skinny.

    Perhaps local conditions create something I've never seen? I'm certainly open to learning!
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  23. #23
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    ^omg...Jayem likes studs in certain conditions and you don't, get over it!!

    The people that say studs aren't worth the $$ have not experienced a time when they NEEDED studs and didn't have them. One of our local trails systems gets a lot more traffic then the others, and is getting to be very icy right now, I am tempted to throw on the studded d4's right now....but I think I will just stick to riding deer trails for a bit.

  24. #24
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    I wiped out on my side walk yesterday as I was leaving the driveway. The ice was invisible, it just looked damp. I decided to wait a couple hours and let the temps thaw out the pavement.
    Ridley CX, Stumpjumper Carbon HT, Surly Wednesday

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    ...Snow, compressed to the point of being "biteable" by a stud, is known as ice.....

    Crust, hardpack, windblown pack, old beaten down, boot packed stuff, never found studs to be of any help, fat or skinny...
    Maybe everyone's definition of "snow" and "ice" vary but i have been on boot-packed snow and groomed snow that was smooth and hard on top. I don't know that anyone would call it ice but it's certainly an icy medium and studs make a world of difference.

    A couple of freeze-thaw cycles of hardpacked snow does not turn it into ice but can make studs mandatory if you want to stay upright. Our snowpack right now consists of about 6" of snow that then had 2" of rain on top, which refroze. The crust is super hard but is not ice and any off-camber sections are very sketchy. Rideable with studs, not without them. Then we got a few inches of powder on top, classic east coast dust on crust. Only when this got packed in and firmed up does riding w/o studs become reasonable.

  26. #26
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    I'll be adding cheap studs to my snowshoe XL's for general winter, everyday riding (not racing).

    The added traction may help on mixed days and i don't care about the weight penalty since neither my Mayor nor I are lightweights
    Mike
    Toronto, Canada
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  27. #27
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    ^Dude, I think your mom is late with your laxatives^

    I agree 100%. Nor did I say studs aren't worth it.

    Well, that's a little more nuanced of an answer really.

    And I've ridden my studs into early Spring and loved how they hook up even when it's just wet with no snow or ice.

    I do think studded fat tires are a waste of money if you plan to ride trails with climbs, off camber sections etc, rather than lakes though. Personal testing and experience taught me this when studded fat first came out, and I slapped them on just out of curiosities sake.

    I wiped out repeatedly from the tires "failure to engage", my skinny studded buddies, never did. Ride after ride.

    Switched back to skinny studs and never looked back.

    Fat is for "fat conditions", studded is for skinnies.

    For. me. But that should go without saying.

    For lake and flat surface type riding, sure, if I had lakes with shores nearby, and a reliable freeze, snow on shore, frozen lake? I'd think studded fat fit that niche like a glove.

    I was picking up on what he was saying about studs improving bite in snow, pure snow, not thin, watery slush with icy roots under it. I don't buy it, but it's also a discussion, I respect Jayem and his thoughts, so I'm open to enlightenment!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    Maybe everyone's definition of "snow" and "ice" vary
    See my other comments, but for me, were it hard enough to float a 2.whatever 29er tire, I'd be on skinny studs. Too soft for skinny, and I've never found the need for studs.

    This of course, is looking past the luxury of having two bikes with differing tires to choose from, of course!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    ^Dude, I think your mom is late with your laxatives^
    Pffft...I can post pictures to prove my laxatives are on time!

    I don't ever like to limit myself when riding my fat bike. Lets say I want to go ride on a slippery lake, then go to some trails, then some deer trails....all in one ride. Well skinny tires ain't gonna cut it, and riding w/o studs could me danger.

    If I had the cash I would have another wheelset with just studded d4's for when the occasion presented itself.

  30. #30
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    Yep, we just ride different ways.

    Not a whole lot of land around to "wander" on, around here. That sorta stuff will get you shot at.

    So our rides are on the trail in front of us, and if temps are below freezing the conditions are pretty consistent. Since we ride at night mostly, sunny side of the hill softness isn't an issue.

    Other than last winter,reliable ice for a pond or lake ride, ain't been a thing around here for years.....

    Oh, and thanks, but no need for pictorial evidence.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  31. #31
    Jammin' Econo
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    I ride my fattie for everything in the winter - trails, paved and unpaved roads on the way to the trailhead (which are generally snow and ice covered this time of year), and commuting to my office, around town, etc. Ice is always a possibility. I won't ride without studs in the winter, until I get a second wheelset that I can throw on for when I know I'm just driving to a trail somewhere.
    "I've been mt biking for 25 years and I don't plan on ever getting a MOPED"
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  32. #32
    beer thief
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    See my other comments, but for me, were it hard enough to float a 2.whatever 29er tire, I'd be on skinny studs. Too soft for skinny, and I've never found the need for studs...
    Nah, the crust right now would not support skinny tires but fat studs work far better than without. Just ask my friends who were walking.

    I agree that for true water ice, skinny studs are far superior to fat. NO comparison.


  33. #33
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    ^Whatever you do....don't put your foot down!! haha

  34. #34
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    I get heckled by my friends for not riding the fatbike to work in the mornings when it's snowing... regardless of how much ice there is. I jump on the studded 29er for all of the reasons mentioned above. It's not like "float" is important when it looks like this:

    Laying the Fattie down!-screen-shot-2016-01-14-8.18.14-am.jpg

    but when I'm on packed trails I stick with an all season compromise tire on the fatbike and crash like a man

    Laying the Fattie down!-screen-shot-2016-01-25-1.40.07-pm.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  35. #35
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    Even in the high arctic or on the driest mountains all snow doesn't just dehydrate and disappear. Every place else , snow goes thru freeze thaw cycles. That makes ice. Shaded spots get icy. .
    And compressed snow can be too compressed and slick for rubber tires to get a purchase on.
    Just try some studs!/

  36. #36
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    I dunno . I've been on harder ice that is water covered and the framing screw studs stick like sharp corks on a buckskin hemlock.
    With close to 3/16" of exposed drill point ,the screws really hook uphttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/radair/Ice%20biking/1icebulge.jpg
    Last edited by Cold Trigger Finger; 01-25-2016 at 08:21 PM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Trigger Finger View Post


    This stud pattern does make some noise, and does add a small amount of vibration on bare pavement . But on ice it works awesome. Even in tight cornering.
    Yep - mean looking to boot!
    I'd run that if our winters up here didn't suck lately (read - too little snow and ice, not cold enough) I need to move further north I guess, although even in Alaska winters have been iffy lately.

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