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  1. #1
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    Lamere cycles carbon fatbike

    I don't know anything about this company, or the business model. They claim to have the lightest weight AND cheapest carbon fat bike coming. $1800 for frame and fork doesn't seem like that great a deal to me. I read all the threads about Asian carbon ripoffs, and whatnot, but at least these guys are claiming to have developed this bike themselves. All I've seen is this link, which I found while an employee/owner was spamming the comments of Gear Junkie.

    lamere

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    Kind of a cool looking frame although he could have gone a little shorter on the stays for being a 170mm frame.

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    looks like the Borealis

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Kind of a cool looking frame although he could have gone a little shorter on the stays for being a 170mm frame.
    I thought the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richulr View Post
    looks like the Borealis
    Some similarities but a totally different frame.

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    No rear rack mounts.
    --Peace

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    You have walked around Interbike or seen footage of the Taiwan bike shows right? There are a multitude of eastern bicycle manufacturing companies that have libraries of bikes for you to rebrand, market, and distribute under "you bike company name here". Looking at their offerings, this is classic low cost flipping and remarketing of someone else's product. Good on them if they can build a brand, god knows several other "legit" bike companies do the same thing. Nothing wrong with it mind you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodeoj View Post
    Looking at their offerings, this is classic low cost flipping and remarketing of someone else's product.

    So do you mean this frame is copied from another company who sourced frames though this manufacture and then re branded and if so who's frame design did they copy/steal?

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    Their website is pretty clear they get these frames from Asia, so they're not really trying to hide anything:

    lamere

    Though when they say customize a full bike, I don't think they mean custom geometry.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    Their website is pretty clear they get these frames from Asia, so they're not really trying to hide anything:

    lamere

    Though when they say customize a full bike, I don't think they mean custom geometry.
    No I think they are being a straight up company and I don't see this frame design as being copied from anyone else.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodeoj View Post
    You have walked around Interbike or seen footage of the Taiwan bike shows right? There are a multitude of eastern bicycle manufacturing companies that have libraries of bikes for you to rebrand, market, and distribute under "you bike company name here". Looking at their offerings, this is classic low cost flipping and remarketing of someone else's product. Good on them if they can build a brand, god knows several other "legit" bike companies do the same thing. Nothing wrong with it mind you.
    Exactly. All catalog stuff, nothing new here.
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  12. #12
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    Damn! That thing looks nice. Wish they built it around a 190 hub.
    The LPG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkley View Post
    Exactly. All catalog stuff, nothing new here.
    Forgive my ignorance, but if this is true, then shouldn't this bike--or one nearly identical--be soon available straight from a Chinese company for around $800 soon enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zmey70 View Post
    removed
    thanks.

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    From their website (Frames page): "We had our own mould created for this frame".

    Sounds like they've been reading some threads on MTBR.

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    Personally, I think the guy is a little shady.

    This is what he had on Facebook a few months back. Clearly a Borealis.
    If you read his comment you can see he says that it is the bike he has had designed.


    Don't get me wrong, he has every right to have a Fat bike frame made, and really he has the benefit of making improvements off of the Borealis since he is coming at it second, although he totally missed the mark--probably because he has no experience with Fat bikes, but if he lies about this, then..who knows.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lamere cycles carbon fatbike-jp-buzzy-frame-post-facebook-9-26-13-small.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    Personally, I think the guy is a little shady.

    This is what he had on Facebook a few months back. Clearly a Borealis.
    If you read his comment you can see he says that it is the bike he has had designed.


    Don't get me wrong, he has every right to have a Fat bike frame made, and really he has the benefit of making improvements off of the Borealis since he is coming at it second, although he totally missed the mark--probably because he has no experience with Fat bikes, but if he lies about this, then..who knows.
    Now that is a Yampa with the clear scuffed off, how cheesy is that! Now the one he is selling is a totally different beast altogether.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    Personally, I think the guy is a little shady.
    Spending his nest egg on CF molds? Like - one guy?

    Is he nuts?! I don't have any solid numbers but based on my own carbon research with pressure bladder molding and inquiries to machining companies, those high volume high polish steel molds have got to be expensive, as in, four zeros minimum.

    Does smell a little funny.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

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    Hollywood in the Twin Cities deal this companies wares. He's got nothing but good stuff to say about the product. It to me looks like someone wanted to crack the big mfg mold and offer a solid product at a fair price. Remember that as a company based here in the U.S. he'd have to carry insurance in case the product failed and caused an injury. I guess if you don't like or don't want Asian made stuff you should probably just buy a custom U.S. made steel or Ti frame / with U.S. made parts cause 99% of carbon stuff from every mfg comes from Asia.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    No I think they are being a straight up company and I don't see this frame design as being copied from anyone else.
    Somewhat true on the second part, but only because he was forced to start from scratch because he was caught trying the other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    Somewhat true on the second part, but only because he was forced to start from scratch because he was caught trying the other way.
    Busted any insider info on the frame Salted Bikes is going to sell that looks just like the Borealis with the exact same geo to boot?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Busted any insider info on the frame Salted Bikes is going to sell that looks just like the Borealis with the exact same geo to boot?
    Looks pretty similar huh. I don't know.

    It's a bummer for me to see that bottom feeders can snatch up months of work and 10s of thousands of dollars in design and testing from legitimate companies. Worse are the people on here ready to support it. Pretty sad.

    The big problem is that once your product gets produced in China it is very difficult to protect especially for these smaller companies like 907 and Borealis.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Busted any insider info on the frame Salted Bikes is going to sell that looks just like the Borealis with the exact same geo to boot?
    I can answer that one. Seeing as how Salted Bikes is a brand owned by Dirt Works Australia (founded in 1994). We were the Australian distributor for Surly and Salsa from 2001 until very recently. What does this mean to you?

    Well, it means that we have some history. (though that's nothing even remotely like the long rich history of Pete, Greg and the rest of the Alaskan crew)

    We actually have some experience with assisting design and development on Taiwan product as well. In the past we worked with JoyTech/NovaTech on hub, freewheel and seal design and development.

    I guess I'm just making the point that we didn't just pop-up following the next fashion trend in bikes. We've been in the business of bikes since 1994 (well... considerably longer if you want to include time in bicycle retail) and around FATbikes (specifically) since 2005 when we brought our very first shipment of Pugsley frames into Australia. We've ridden FATbikes in Desert races (Simpson Desert Bike Challenge), 100klm marathons, 24 hour events and on everyday trails.

    But onto the frame.

    We have a relationship with a carbon framebuilder who makes a lot of different frames, for many many brands, that you probably know.

    They also happen to have a very nice 170mm frame that looks very similar to the 190mm frame. This 170mm frame is one that they have been working on for well over a year now. We had been following it's development and were about to place an order on it when the 190mm became an option. We may still order the 170mm frame (as well) as a) it's a little lighter and b) not everyone wants or needs 4.8" tyres on 100mm rims for trail riding.

    Anyway, the way it works is that they have a design that they have developed. They want to sell it around the world. And, just like the fork maker (they're friends actually), of the famous "fork of many names", they don't want to "build a brand and market it".

    They're happy to do what they do best. Manufacturer the actual product. So they look for partners that can do the marketing and sales side of things. People that have knowledge in their specific niche. Which is great since while we know a lot about geometry, features and ride quality, we're kinda' light-on when it comes to carbon frame manufacture.

    But, making a carbon frame isn't cheap. Moulds are bloody expensive. So carbon frame builders do things in two ways. OEM mould or OPEN mould.

    With an OEM mould; the brand on the side of the frame that comes out of the mould usually owns the tooling and design. They have invested a lot of money in their own tooling and so their design (and the risk) is theirs. (probably the most well known design like this is Ibis)

    Where it can get confusing is that sometimes an OEM mould may incorporate design elements from the carbon frame makers own designs. A good example of this is the flattened seatstays on our Sandfly frame. This design feature is used on many OPEN moulds by our frame maker. But it's also utilised on a large number of his OEM frames too. Clearly a lot of his OEM clients like the design and elect to use it on their own frames.

    An OPEN mould is where the frame maker has invested their own money into the tooling and are taking their own risk. To make the investment in an OPEN mould (and in multiple sizes) viable, the frame maker will make the frame available to multiple brands in different geographic locations. (USA, Australia, UK and so on) Typically, use of an OPEN mould, requires an order of 50-100 frames.

    I should probably point out, that our frames have their own OPEN moulds that are owned by the frame maker. And while they may look "similar" to others. They're not identical. The Sandfly for example, can run a triple chainring with 4.8" tyres on 100mm rims - other (similar looking) brands can not. We're also running with a 190mm x 12mm thu axle on the rear. Based on our experience with FAT wheels and custom wheelbuilding, we feel that it really locks the back end together much better that a std QR.

    ​So let's be clear about this ok. You will see the Sandfly frame, sooner or later (on an international site) with a different brand name on it. (I guarantee it, as I'm aware of some of the other brand partners in this around the world)

    Sorry to burst the balloon. But it's a fact.

    For more on the world of OEM moulds, OPEN moulds, (and everything in between) the guys at Switchback Bikes has it explained quite well here.


    Elvis.
    Last edited by Elvis @ Dirt Works; 12-08-2013 at 02:42 AM.

  25. #25
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    Thanks for the explanation and I see you changed some wording on your site and removed the geo chart that mirrored that of the Borealis.

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    Awesome reply Elvis.

    Simply reading this thread its clear that there are many who are still unaware of the relationships between "brands" and manufacturers... words like stealing, etc... really don't apply here. As markets grow and mature, industries shake down to a smaller group of major players that can leverage quantity to reduce entry cost to different markets and segments for smaller players in the brand market as well as consumers. This happens in the auto markets, and most other global markets as well.

    To consumers, we like to pick things and associate with them... psychology, marketing, get caught up in a perception real or not, etc... It is OUR responsibility as consumers to educate ourselves, and make informed decisions in the market, rewarding those brands that deliver good product, stand behind it, and don't feed us with ********.

    A quick tip people... pick the brand that does not shy away from transparency even if it wrecks your Channel fantasy, reality is so much sweeter. To those who must have the Channel fantasy, go with the brand that delivers on your fantasy.

  27. #27
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    That's great info, thanks for posting!

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

  28. #28
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    The same sort of thing happens in the ti frame manufacture world too.

    Our very first sample frame was the equivalent of an open frame. A generic off the shelf frame that anyone can buy if they want to place an order for 30 frames a month.

    We made our own minor changes to that frame before our first shipment. Then we set about developing other frames with features that we felt were important to us and our customers.

    The similarities to the carbon guys is scary.

    Mr Muru

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuruCycles View Post
    .oops
    We are all good brother Excited to see what you have in store for us!

  30. #30
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    Lamere cycles carbon fatbike

    Quote Originally Posted by MuruCycles View Post
    The same sort of thing happens in the ti frame manufacture world too.

    Our very first sample frame was the equivalent of an open frame. A generic off the shelf frame that anyone can buy if they want to place an order for 30 frames a month.

    We made our own minor changes to that frame before our first shipment. Then we set about developing other frames with features that we felt were important to us and our customers.

    The similarities to the carbon guys is scary.

    Mr Muru
    Except the costs involved in modifying an "open" carbon frame design is much, much higher than that of modifying a metal frame.
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    That's correct, we get our frames direct from Asia, we get the open mould frames because we think they are the best since the Asians make everyone else's frames and they see the weak points in each, then when they put out their own, they take the best from all the big brands and that's the open mould. On the fat bike, we paid a lot of money to have our own mould made, so a different deal there. Hopefully they will not sell our bike just over the counter to everyone else, but it would not totally surprise me either. So you are correct we do not offer custom frames, but we customize all the parts you want and we get that at wholesale, so you pick your grouppo, wheelset, saddle, as much as you want or need.
    JP LaMere
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    Hey Pete Bassinger, you really want to get into this here? Ok let's do it... so for all the readers here's what happened, I posted that picture on our FB page because that's what our frame factory sent us and said we can now make you a fat frame. They knew I wanted one because I was pestering them for a fat frame for over 2 years. So they sent me a photo of a fat frame to prove they can make one, and I was psyched. Then the stressed out Borealis d-bags called me yelling and screaming threatening to sue me, so I told the Borealis d-bags to calm down, that I would take down the picture no problem, which I did, right away. How was I to know that was your frame? How do we know now that is your frame? Hopefully it is your frame they are pumping out for someone else. Do you think I bought one of your frames and flew over to Asia with it and had it reverse engineered? You guys seem really stressed out, pretty different than me as I got into the bike biz because I love biking and I was tired of bike industry prices which are out of control. But you want everyone to have to pay $2200 for your fat bike frame so you guys can get rich. Above you called me a bottom feeder...how am I a bottom feeder? Did you guys invent the fat bike or something? My main goal in starting LaMere Cycles has been to get more people on great bikes for way less money than what is now being charged in the bike industry, the money will come down the road perhaps.

    Maybe if you spoke Mandarin and have lived and worked in China and Taiwan like me you would understand the Asian business model better and how things work over there. If you think your fat frame is not gonna be copied then I don't know what to tell you.

    We did not "start over" because you threatened to sue us. Our factory offered to make us a fat frame for a not inconsequential mould fee, and we did it. We were signed up to be a dealer of yours but then you reneged on that after finding a bigger shop in Minneapolis, but you didn't have the courtesy to call and tell us that, you just stopped returning our calls and emails. Classy.

    As long as the gloves are off, I don't believe your fat frame weighs what you say it does on your website: "Lightweight: 1270 gram frame (We only post actual weights- This is a size Medium frame that is fully painted, finished, and includes derailleur hangar.)" How about you post an actual picture of the bike on a scale like I do with my frames and components on my site?

    As far as how long I've been riding a fat bike, well about a year after Surly produced the first ones here in MN. I was riding a bike before you were born d-bag.

    JP
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    Email: lamerecycles@gmail.com

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    *grabs popcorn*

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Hey Pete Bassinger, you really want to get into this here? Ok let's do it... so for all the readers here's what happened, I posted that picture on our FB page because that's what our frame factory sent us and said we can now make you a fat frame. They knew I wanted one because I was pestering them for a fat frame for over 2 years. So they sent me a photo of a fat frame to prove they can make one, and I was psyched. Then the stressed out Borealis d-bags called me yelling and screaming threatening to sue me, so I told the Borealis d-bags to calm down, that I would take down the picture no problem, which I did, right away. How was I to know that was your frame? How do we know now that is your frame? Hopefully it is your frame they are pumping out for someone else. Do you think I bought one of your frames and flew over to Asia with it and had it reverse engineered? You guys seem really stressed out, pretty different than me as I got into the bike biz because I love biking and I was tired of bike industry prices which are out of control. But you want everyone to have to pay $2200 for your fat bike frame so you guys can get rich. Above you called me a bottom feeder...how am I a bottom feeder? Did you guys invent the fat bike or something? My main goal in starting LaMere Cycles has been to get more people on great bikes for way less money than what is now being charged in the bike industry, the money will come down the road perhaps.

    Maybe if you spoke Mandarin and have lived and worked in China and Taiwan like me you would understand the Asian business model better and how things work over there. If you think your fat frame is not gonna be copied then I don't know what to tell you.

    We did not "start over" because you threatened to sue us. Our factory offered to make us a fat frame for a not inconsequential mould fee, and we did it. We were signed up to be a dealer of yours but then you reneged on that after finding a bigger shop in Minneapolis, but you didn't have the courtesy to call and tell us that, you just stopped returning our calls and emails. Classy.

    As long as the gloves are off, I don't believe your fat frame weighs what you say it does on your website: "Lightweight: 1270 gram frame (We only post actual weights- This is a size Medium frame that is fully painted, finished, and includes derailleur hangar.)" How about you post an actual picture of the bike on a scale like I do with my frames and components on my site?

    As far as how long I've been riding a fat bike, well about a year after Surly produced the first ones here in MN. I was riding a bike before you were born d-bag.

    JP
    Well put! Make it happen.

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    Guarantee you will see that same frame available from the Chinese resellers soon for half that price.
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    I work for myself and sell products I make directly to consumers. Like mountain biking, there are large internet forums where people discuss the activity and associated products. Customers seem baffled when I tell them I avoid those forums like the plague, but forums are frequently a place to "passionately discuss" (ie. argue) about topics. I believe the quote, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it" is appropriate, especially when you don't know if people reading will decide you are the pig. I just bought a new Made in the USA frame to build into a singlespeed, so it's tough figuring out who the pigs are after reading all this crap about who's designing/stealing/copying, selling the best/cheapest/coolest Chinese made frame.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Hey Pete Bassinger, you really want to get into this here? Ok let's do it... so for all the readers here's what happened, I posted that picture on our FB page because that's what our frame factory sent us and said we can now make you a fat frame. They knew I wanted one because I was pestering them for a fat frame for over 2 years. So they sent me a photo of a fat frame to prove they can make one, and I was psyched. Then the stressed out Borealis d-bags called me yelling and screaming threatening to sue me, so I told the Borealis d-bags to calm down, that I would take down the picture no problem, which I did, right away. How was I to know that was your frame? How do we know now that is your frame? Hopefully it is your frame they are pumping out for someone else. Do you think I bought one of your frames and flew over to Asia with it and had it reverse engineered? You guys seem really stressed out, pretty different than me as I got into the bike biz because I love biking and I was tired of bike industry prices which are out of control. But you want everyone to have to pay $2200 for your fat bike frame so you guys can get rich. Above you called me a bottom feeder...how am I a bottom feeder? Did you guys invent the fat bike or something? My main goal in starting LaMere Cycles has been to get more people on great bikes for way less money than what is now being charged in the bike industry, the money will come down the road perhaps.

    Maybe if you spoke Mandarin and have lived and worked in China and Taiwan like me you would understand the Asian business model better and how things work over there. If you think your fat frame is not gonna be copied then I don't know what to tell you.

    We did not "start over" because you threatened to sue us. Our factory offered to make us a fat frame for a not inconsequential mould fee, and we did it. We were signed up to be a dealer of yours but then you reneged on that after finding a bigger shop in Minneapolis, but you didn't have the courtesy to call and tell us that, you just stopped returning our calls and emails. Classy.

    As long as the gloves are off, I don't believe your fat frame weighs what you say it does on your website: "Lightweight: 1270 gram frame (We only post actual weights- This is a size Medium frame that is fully painted, finished, and includes derailleur hangar.)" How about you post an actual picture of the bike on a scale like I do with my frames and components on my site?

    As far as how long I've been riding a fat bike, well about a year after Surly produced the first ones here in MN. I was riding a bike before you were born d-bag.

    JP
    Always fun to see a guy tank his company's image on internet forums. I'm sure referring to people as "d-bags" will earn you more business!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Hey Pete Bassinger, you really want to get into this here? Ok let's do it... so for all the readers here's what happened, I posted that picture on our FB page because that's what our frame factory sent us and said we can now make you a fat frame. They knew I wanted one because I was pestering them for a fat frame for over 2 years. So they sent me a photo of a fat frame to prove they can make one, and I was psyched. Then the stressed out Borealis d-bags called me yelling and screaming threatening to sue me, so I told the Borealis d-bags to calm down, that I would take down the picture no problem, which I did, right away. How was I to know that was your frame? How do we know now that is your frame? Hopefully it is your frame they are pumping out for someone else. Do you think I bought one of your frames and flew over to Asia with it and had it reverse engineered? You guys seem really stressed out, pretty different than me as I got into the bike biz because I love biking and I was tired of bike industry prices which are out of control. But you want everyone to have to pay $2200 for your fat bike frame so you guys can get rich. Above you called me a bottom feeder...how am I a bottom feeder? Did you guys invent the fat bike or something? My main goal in starting LaMere Cycles has been to get more people on great bikes for way less money than what is now being charged in the bike industry, the money will come down the road perhaps.

    Maybe if you spoke Mandarin and have lived and worked in China and Taiwan like me you would understand the Asian business model better and how things work over there. If you think your fat frame is not gonna be copied then I don't know what to tell you.

    We did not "start over" because you threatened to sue us. Our factory offered to make us a fat frame for a not inconsequential mould fee, and we did it. We were signed up to be a dealer of yours but then you reneged on that after finding a bigger shop in Minneapolis, but you didn't have the courtesy to call and tell us that, you just stopped returning our calls and emails. Classy.

    As long as the gloves are off, I don't believe your fat frame weighs what you say it does on your website: "Lightweight: 1270 gram frame (We only post actual weights- This is a size Medium frame that is fully painted, finished, and includes derailleur hangar.)" How about you post an actual picture of the bike on a scale like I do with my frames and components on my site?

    As far as how long I've been riding a fat bike, well about a year after Surly produced the first ones here in MN. I was riding a bike before you were born d-bag.

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    I sure hope this is your own mould, as your ht 29, fs 29, and road bike offerings are just chinese direct frames with a middle man pricetag.

    I just met a guy who had one of your full suspension offerings in northern california. I choked back a sad cough when he told me how much he got swindled for.

    I guess they do come with your stickers though.

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    Yikes. If I was JP and having the same inaccurate accusations blasted at me on a public forum I would be pissed off to. Maybe I won't go full on like he did in his post, but I can understand the anger. He put down a big chunk of his own money to make his frame happen. None of you (as far as I know) have been in that same situation. Good luck JP with your fatbike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    I sure hope this is your own mould, as your ht 29, fs 29, and road bike offerings are just chinese direct frames with a middle man pricetag.

    I just met a guy who had one of your full suspension offerings in northern california. I choked back a sad cough when he told me how much he got swindled for.

    I guess they do come with your stickers though.
    What? Our bikes don't use stickers, our logos are painted on at the factory, very subtle logo just on the top tube, rest of the bike is black ud matte carbon and our website link on the inside of the chainstay.

    Swindled? You show me a better price on a bike build and I'll give you one at cost redmr2_man.
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    JP, maybe you should come on and explain how your fat bike is different than some of the other bikes it is accused of copying. And maybe also explain why going through you would be worth more to the people who will be able to purchase your exact fat bike frame direct from your manufacturing company at half the cost. There's a fellow on mtbr named Derby who has had great success selling carbon fiber rims he designed, but are made by a company that molds "Asian" rims through a relationship not unsimilar to yours. Derby sells wide cf rims, and was the first to do so by a month or two, but now at least a couple more manufacturers, including the one making his rims, are selling similar rims much cheaper. I think if you worked to build the confidence of some of the folks in the fat bike forum you will be better served than the direction this thread is heading…and likely to get much worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkley View Post
    Always fun to see a guy tank his company's image on internet forums. I'm sure referring to people as "d-bags" will earn you more business!
    Sorry but IMO the Borealis guys are D-Bags. If someone calls me shady, threatens to sue me, implies that I have stolen their frame, cancels me as a dealer without telling me, then they are D-Bags.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    JP, maybe you should come on and explain how your fat bike is different than some of the other bikes it is accused of copying. And maybe also explain why going through you would be worth more to the people who will be able to purchase your exact fat bike frame direct from your manufacturing company at half the cost. There's a fellow on mtbr named Derby who has had great success selling carbon fiber rims he designed, but are made by a company that molds "Asian" rims through a relationship not unsimilar to yours. Derby sells wide cf rims, and was the first to do so by a month or two, but now at least a couple more manufacturers, including the one making his rims, are selling similar rims much cheaper. I think if you worked to build the confidence of some of the folks in the fat bike forum you will be better served than the direction this thread is heading…and likely to get much worse.
    Thanks, you're right, I'm not a big forum poster but was alerted to this thread last night and felt I had to come on and defend myself and set the record straight.

    I did pay a bunch of $$$ to get my carbon fat bike mould made, but I will not be surprised if the Asians start selling it direct, in fact I'm sure they will, but I'm still ok with my decision to have spent the $$$ for the fat bike frame mould so I can get it out on the market sooner than later. Also I wanted some special things, I did not want rack mounts, I wanted the smaller 170mm rear end, I want a more narrow Q factor more similar to a regular mtn bike, etc... and this is all very different from the Borealis bike which is more of a powder adventure back country sand bike. I'm going for a super light year round racing fat bike, not an adventure back country 5" tire snow bike which I do think is cool, and which I might add to our product line when the Asians start selling that directly.

    I'm not so worried about people being able to buy the fat frames/forks direct from Asia when that happens (which I agree it will) as I really don't mark up the price of our frames that much, and I don't try to hide the fact that our frames are mostly open mould (albeit the nicest versions of the open moulds) because where we make a little money is on building up an entire customized bike for our customers since we buy parts directly from the USA's biggest distributors and sell the whole bike at a really good price, and the fun of it for me is working with customers picking out their new bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Sorry but IMO the Borealis guys are D-Bags. If someone calls me shady, threatens to sue me, implies that I have stolen their frame, cancels me as a dealer without telling me, then they are D-Bags.
    Wasn't it kind of a misunderstanding? You posted a pic of their frame with the paint scuffed off claiming it as your own and without realizing it was theirs. Wouldn't they have a right to get mad seeing this and not knowing it was a honest mistake on your part? Maybe there is a lot more to it, don't know and don't care. This is probably a matter best left between you guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Wasn't it kind of a misunderstanding? You posted a pic of their frame with the paint scuffed off claiming it as your own and without realizing it was theirs. Wouldn't they have a right to get mad seeing this and not knowing it was a honest mistake on your part? Maybe there is a lot more to it, don't know and don't care. This is probably a matter best left between you guys.
    I had no idea it was their frame, and still not sure it is. They way Borealis was sure it was their frame is they said the recognized the green floor from the pictures they had been given. It was a photo my factory sent me from Asia, just to prove they can make a fat frame. The paint was not scuffed off, that's what a carbon bike frame looks like before its painted or has any sealant applied.

    I guess they have a right to get mad, but they should have been pretty happy that I'm such a nice guy to take the photo down right away, but in the very first conversation they threatened to sue me. Wack. Not really any more to it, I would never air all this dirty laundry, more info than people really care about to be sure, but I was alerted to this thread last night and I don't appreciate being called "shady" and having it implied that I'm stealing people's frames so here I am.

    No reply on here from the Borealis guys, they must be "too busy running their multi-million dollar business" which is what Steve Kaczmarek of Borealis told me on the phone as he was hanging up on me as I was trying to tell him how the Asian bike business actually works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    I'm not so worried about people being able to buy the fat frames/forks direct from Asia when that happens (which I agree it will) as I really don't mark up the price of our frames that much, and I don't try to hide the fact that our frames are mostly open mould (albeit the nicest versions of the open moulds) because where we make a little money is on building up an entire customized bike for our customers since we buy parts directly from the USA's biggest distributors and sell the whole bike at a really good price, and the fun of it for me is working with customers picking out their new bike.
    You should also mention that your frame comes with a lifetime warranty, right? That was the last life-jacket I'm going to throw at you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    You should also mention that your frame comes with a lifetime warranty, right? That was the last life-jacket I'm going to throw at you.
    Yes! True, keep the lifejackets coming.....here's our warranty policy:
    lamere
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    I would never air all this dirty laundry, more info than people really care about to be sure, but I was alerted to this thread last night and I don't appreciate being called "shady" and having it implied that I'm stealing people's frames so here I am.
    Not at all - given the Specialized lawsuit press going on right now, it's the right kind of info.

    I apologize for bagging on you for investing your own cash into what I am educatedly guessing are extremely expensive molds. I just couldn't fathom it.
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  50. #50
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    This alone probably justifies buying from LaMere versus getting and open mold model. My concern when considering an open mold carbon bike is the integrity of the build and not wanting it to fail.

    I think folks that are willing to invest their own money and sweat equity into a project and offering to stand behind the work says a lot about them.

    Good luck with in the Fat Bike biz. I hope it goes well.

    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Yes! True, keep the lifejackets coming.....here's our warranty policy:
    lamere

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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Also I wanted some special things, I did not want rack mounts, I wanted the smaller 170mm rear end, I want a more narrow Q factor more similar to a regular mtn bike, etc... and this is all very different from the Borealis bike which is more of a powder adventure back country sand bike. I'm going for a super light year round racing fat bike, not an adventure back country 5" tire snow bike which I do think is cool, and which I might add to our product line when the Asians start selling that directly.
    Sounds like my kind of bike. Not in the market this year but I will definitely keep an eye out for y'all in the future.

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    One things for sure, if I was in the market for a carbon fatty, I'd get it from LaMere over specialized for darn sure.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Yes! True, keep the lifejackets coming.....here's our warranty policy:
    lamere
    Define "lifetime" please.

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    Oh dear, things are getting unpleasant.

    Maybe the lesson here is to bring manufacturing back home (wherever that may be).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post

    Maybe the lesson here is to bring manufacturing back home (wherever that may be).

    Amen!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    ...we buy parts directly from the USA's biggest distributors...
    What distributors do you go through?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Oh dear, things are getting unpleasant.

    Maybe the lesson here is to bring manufacturing back home (wherever that may be).
    Then be prepared to pay 2-10 times more for the same product. The labor cost alone is a huge factor in an item like a frame. That is the primary reason that nearly all of the CF frame product exists where it does right now.

    Right or wrong, the cheap labor overseas has a direct impact on the price you have to pay for these things.

    Despite the feel good nature of the thought, the reality would probably be beyond may peoples means or at least what would be considered a rational expense.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    Despite the feel good nature of the thought, the reality would probably be beyond may peoples means or at least what would be considered a rational expense.
    Depends on what sort of stock one puts in things like warranty and customer service, which seems rational as opposed to just "feeling good". If the direct-from-China route even includes a warranty, good luck with a replacement? Tell me if I've missed something. Interesting thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    Then be prepared to pay 2-10 times more for the same product.
    There is a nontrivial possibility this notion will affect us in the not too distant future, in general, with respect to consumer goods. Love or hate China, we are deeply codependent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefat View Post
    Depends on what sort of stock one puts in things like warranty and customer service, which seems rational as opposed to just "feeling good". If the direct-from-China route even includes a warranty, good luck with a replacement? Tell me if I've missed something. Interesting thread.
    I was responding to the "bring it home" suggestion.

    I presumed that this statement would include big brands offerings like Spesh, Trek, etc. not just the ebay direct offerings.

    The warranty and service issue is a different issue entirely.

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    I think if this was a normal 29er hard tail this thread would be going in a different direction. But the fatbike scene seems to bread a different type of rider. Most fat bike riders that I know would rather buy there bike from a LBS or manufacturer that they know are also supporting our local fat bike scene. It's a newly evolving group of riders. Most winter user groups have yet to encounter fat bikes on snowmobile trails, and XC ski trails. We need a commitment from local companies who are willing to help out. Lets see these companies put money back into the scene (a lot do) and those are the ones who will initially set the foundation for future fat bikes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    There is a nontrivial possibility this notion will affect us in the not too distant future, in general, with respect to consumer goods. Love or hate China, we are deeply codependent.
    Yes. And too often people respond emotionally without realizing the full implication of their suggestions.

    If someone is so against this kind of labor, what other choices do they make in their life to avoid being "part of the problem". Clothing, electronics, and so many of the products we all take for granted are made in places with living conditions and wages far below what many people realize or would be happy to experience themselves.

    In order to correct those situations, it would lead to an inevitable increase in costs for many of the things we use in our daily lives. That has implications far beyond most of these discussions.

    My point is that if you want to claim to have these considerations at heart, you should be considering how far they really reach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    I was responding to the "bring it home" suggestion.

    I presumed that this statement would include big brands offerings like Spesh, Trek, etc. not just the ebay direct offerings.

    The warranty and service issue is a different issue entirely.
    Gotcha now, sorry... a bit too much bourbon warming back up after today's ride...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefat View Post
    Depends on what sort of stock one puts in things like warranty and customer service, which seems rational as opposed to just "feeling good". If the direct-from-China route even includes a warranty, good luck with a replacement? Tell me if I've missed something. Interesting thread.
    Yeah, I dunno about that- "local" companies (*cough* specialized *cough*) aren't exactly known for standing behind their warranties...

    And my hand built, locally crafted custom frame came with a lifetime warranty (hey, if you ever crash and break the frame, bring it back to me and I'll work with you to fix it), except that the builder went under and no longer exists.

    Most warranties have so many astrixes as to be no better than fishwrap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Yeah, I dunno about that- "local" companies (*cough* specialized *cough*) aren't exactly known for standing behind their warranties...

    And my hand built, locally crafted custom frame came with a lifetime warranty (hey, if you ever crash and break the frame, bring it back to me and I'll work with you to fix it), except that the builder went under and no longer exists.

    Most warranties have so many astrixes as to be no better than fishwrap.
    At best, a "lifetime" warranty is for the lifetime of the company. No way around that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Most warranties have so many astrixes as to be no better than fishwrap.
    True, that. What I find surprising are the number of riders my weight (down to 242lbs these days, thanks to my pup, despite all the Wild Turkey 101) who won't even consider a CF frame 'cuz they're certain they'll break it. I've been away from the MTB scene for a long time, new to fatbikes, is it really as bad as all that? I wonder. Just curious, really only into CF for rims, potentially, mebbe a fork -- but digging the CF-frame manufacturing discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    At best, a "lifetime" warranty is for the lifetime of the company. No way around that.
    Yup. Thinking more along the lines of, with any company, you're rolling the dice on whether there will be any way to warranty at all after a couple years.

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    I strongly disagree!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    Then be prepared to pay 2-10 times more for the same product.
    Manufacturing in Asia completely revolves around profit margin. Without question manufacturing costs are dramatically lower there than here in the US. There are other tradeoff's like time zone, communication, quality, delivery, and protection from piracy to name a few but still many companies find it dramatically cost effective to go "offshore" for manufacturing needs. Most importantly though those cost savings are not passed on to the consumer. On the contrary, the goods manufactured are more often than not sold at prices close to what they would cost if made in the US, at least as it relates to bicycle manufacturing in particular. This was exactly the case when Dorel moved Cannondale frame manufacturing to Asia yet the bike prices did not go down, instead profitability went up! The American manufacturing employees got screwed over and lost their jobs, the consumer saw no price concessions on bikes, and Dorel became more profitable. Compare the price of a comparable Fatback aluminum frame bike to a Salsa, or 9 zero 7 and see what the price difference is, around 10 percent maybe. Even though the cost to manufacture the offshore frames is one tenth the cost of the US made Fatback.

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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by richulr View Post
    looks like the Borealis
    The lamere has a better derailleur hanger.

    Also the Borealis has 190mm spacing, this is 170mm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuck1 View Post
    Manufacturing in Asia completely revolves around profit margin. Without question manufacturing costs are dramatically lower there than here in the US. There are other tradeoff's like time zone, communication, quality, delivery, and protection from piracy to name a few but still many companies find it dramatically cost effective to go "offshore" for manufacturing needs. Most importantly though those cost savings are not passed on to the consumer. On the contrary, the goods manufactured are more often than not sold at prices close to what they would cost if made in the US, at least as it relates to bicycle manufacturing in particular. This was exactly the case when Dorel moved Cannondale frame manufacturing to Asia yet the bike prices did not go down, instead profitability went up! The American manufacturing employees got screwed over and lost their jobs, the consumer saw no price concessions on bikes, and Dorel became more profitable. Compare the price of a comparable Fatback aluminum frame bike to a Salsa, or 9 zero 7 and see what the price difference is, around 10 percent maybe. Even though the cost to manufacture the offshore frames is one tenth the cost of the US made Fatback.
    Very good points!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuck1 View Post
    Manufacturing in Asia completely revolves around profit margin. Without question manufacturing costs are dramatically lower there than here in the US. There are other tradeoff's like time zone, communication, quality, delivery, and protection from piracy to name a few but still many companies find it dramatically cost effective to go "offshore" for manufacturing needs. Most importantly though those cost savings are not passed on to the consumer. On the contrary, the goods manufactured are more often than not sold at prices close to what they would cost if made in the US, at least as it relates to bicycle manufacturing in particular. This was exactly the case when Dorel moved Cannondale frame manufacturing to Asia yet the bike prices did not go down, instead profitability went up! The American manufacturing employees got screwed over and lost their jobs, the consumer saw no price concessions on bikes, and Dorel became more profitable. Compare the price of a comparable Fatback aluminum frame bike to a Salsa, or 9 zero 7 and see what the price difference is, around 10 percent maybe. Even though the cost to manufacture the offshore frames is one tenth the cost of the US made Fatback.
    Yeahbut, the cost of a Salsa mukluk frame and fork is $699, while a frame alone from fatback is $1000 + at least $200 for a fork. THat's a whole lot more than 10%.

    Not saying you are wrong about costs not doubling, but the effect isn't insignificant.

    I'm all for a countrywide re-cajiggering of our collective values, to the point that we all looked at the cost of things not only in terms of what we save, but in terms of what the money from that sale does. But I don't see that happening any time soon. We should all try harder, though.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    re-cajiggering
    Careful!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Yeahbut, the cost of a Salsa mukluk frame and fork is $699, while a frame alone from fatback is $1000 + at least $200 for a fork. THat's a whole lot more than 10%.
    The Fatback alloy frame (apples to apples) is $850.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    Yes. And too often people respond emotionally without realizing the full implication of their suggestions.

    If someone is so against this kind of labor, what other choices do they make in their life to avoid being "part of the problem". Clothing, electronics, and so many of the products we all take for granted are made in places with living conditions and wages far below what many people realize or would be happy to experience themselves.

    In order to correct those situations, it would lead to an inevitable increase in costs for many of the things we use in our daily lives. That has implications far beyond most of these discussions.

    My point is that if you want to claim to have these considerations at heart, you should be considering how far they really reach.
    Very true. For the past few years, I have made an effort to only buy US made when I am buying new everyday clothing. It is not only quite difficult, but also quite expensive. Bike clothing is even more difficult to find.

  75. #75
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    So many Americans that have never been over to China really don't have a full understanding of how things work there.....and there are 2 huge misconceptions:

    1- Americans think there is slave and child labor making everything in China. Fortunately this is totally wrong, although there is some prison labor and some really deplorable working conditions. People move from the countryside to work in factories to make more money and better their lives. Sure, from our first world view it looks horrible working in a factory and living at the factory with 6 other people in your room, but their hope is to work, save money, move up to a management position, work their way up. Life is not perfect.

    2- Everything from China is just a ripoff of an American or European good. Well yes they have copied a lot of 1st world technology, but what do you expect when we have them make it all for us? Can we really expect them to make our stuff and not want to make it for themselves and do better in life moving up the value chain? The bike industry is a little different, they have become masters of carbon fiber bicycle mfg over the last 20 years, they totally own that market, its theirs, get used to it, and I say good for them. Chinese need jobs too, the world needs jobs, its a world economy. Does America really want a bunch of low skill, low paying factory jobs? I say we're better off focusing on the service economy and really utilizing our highly educated workforce for higher value chain jobs. People talk about the Chinese owning us now and holding all our debt...true but if we don't pay they are screwed, so its more a factor of them trusting us.

    Mexico just 'surpassed' China in lower wages....the smart move would be to set up a carbon fiber bike factory in Mexico, then I wouldn't have to wait so long to get frames all the way from China.
    JP LaMere
    Phone USA: (612) 326-4183
    Web: LaMereCycles.com or Facebook.com/LaMereCycles
    Email: lamerecycles@gmail.com

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    So many Americans that have never been over to China really don't have a full understanding of how things work there.....and there are 2 huge misconceptions:

    1- Americans think there is slave and child labor making everything in China. Fortunately this is totally wrong, although there is some prison labor and some really deplorable working conditions. People move from the countryside to work in factories to make more money and better their lives. Sure, from our first world view it looks horrible working in a factory and living at the factory with 6 other people in your room, but their hope is to work, save money, move up to a management position, work their way up. Life is not perfect.

    2- Everything from China is just a ripoff of an American or European good. Well yes they have copied a lot of 1st world technology, but what do you expect when we have them make it all for us? Can we really expect them to make our stuff and not want to make it for themselves and do better in life moving up the value chain? The bike industry is a little different, they have become masters of carbon fiber bicycle mfg over the last 20 years, they totally own that market, its theirs, get used to it, and I say good for them. Chinese need jobs too, the world needs jobs, its a world economy. Does America really want a bunch of low skill, low paying factory jobs? I say we're better off focusing on the service economy and really utilizing our highly educated workforce for higher value chain jobs. People talk about the Chinese owning us now and holding all our debt...true but if we don't pay they are screwed, so its more a factor of them trusting us.

    Mexico just 'surpassed' China in lower wages....the smart move would be to set up a carbon fiber bike factory in Mexico, then I wouldn't have to wait so long to get frames all the way from China.
    sorry for being a bit off topic but; I just watched "Death by China" and of course took it w a large dose of salt since it was painfully biased towards paranoia but even if it was 15% off the scale, then the reality is still frightening (and btw i'm Canadian but we all sit on the same piece of dirt...). A lot of the chatter about this and the other threads on this forum are relavent to the 'buy local vs super low price'. After watching the documentary i must admit i'm looking much more carefully at labels (perhaps its just a newfound phase that i'm going through though...)

  77. #77
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    Sorry if I missed it during this thread, but will this frame run with 29er+ wheelset.

    Has a price for the frame been stated yet. What would delivery to UK cost.

    Brian

  78. #78
    Ride good on the internet
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    Still have not seen what they mean by "lifetime"

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    Hey Pete Bassinger, you really want to get into this here? Ok let's do it... so for all the readers here's what happened, I posted that picture on our FB page because that's what our frame factory sent us and said we can now make you a fat frame. They knew I wanted one because I was pestering them for a fat frame for over 2 years. So they sent me a photo of a fat frame to prove they can make one, and I was psyched. Then the stressed out Borealis d-bags called me yelling and screaming threatening to sue me, so I told the Borealis d-bags to calm down, that I would take down the picture no problem, which I did, right away. How was I to know that was your frame? How do we know now that is your frame? Hopefully it is your frame they are pumping out for someone else. Do you think I bought one of your frames and flew over to Asia with it and had it reverse engineered? You guys seem really stressed out, pretty different than me as I got into the bike biz because I love biking and I was tired of bike industry prices which are out of control. But you want everyone to have to pay $2200 for your fat bike frame so you guys can get rich. Above you called me a bottom feeder...how am I a bottom feeder? Did you guys invent the fat bike or something? My main goal in starting LaMere Cycles has been to get more people on great bikes for way less money than what is now being charged in the bike industry, the money will come down the road perhaps.

    Maybe if you spoke Mandarin and have lived and worked in China and Taiwan like me you would understand the Asian business model better and how things work over there. If you think your fat frame is not gonna be copied then I don't know what to tell you.

    We did not "start over" because you threatened to sue us. Our factory offered to make us a fat frame for a not inconsequential mould fee, and we did it. We were signed up to be a dealer of yours but then you reneged on that after finding a bigger shop in Minneapolis, but you didn't have the courtesy to call and tell us that, you just stopped returning our calls and emails. Classy.

    As long as the gloves are off, I don't believe your fat frame weighs what you say it does on your website: "Lightweight: 1270 gram frame (We only post actual weights- This is a size Medium frame that is fully painted, finished, and includes derailleur hangar.)" How about you post an actual picture of the bike on a scale like I do with my frames and components on my site?

    As far as how long I've been riding a fat bike, well about a year after Surly produced the first ones here in MN. I was riding a bike before you were born d-bag.

    JP
    Remember I told you on the emigrant trail, "Don't engage these people"? ;-)

  80. #80
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    Hmm, so many points on here to comment on, but I'll just leave it at this.

    Nothing I posted was false Logantri.

    My opinion is that he was shady based off of the original situation with the picture.

    Misunderstanding? Sure. Possible. Always different ways to look at things. Do I still think he is shady? Actually no.

    Jp-I don't work for Borealis, but I'll take the douche bag comments as directed towards me. Not the first time I've been called a douche bag.

    I don't know the situation on the reneging on the dealer thing or what the conversation was when they asked you to remove the picture, but I have my doubts on your representation.

    Good luck with your bike.

  81. #81
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    Having known JP for a number of years, I'll go on record and say he's definitely a stand-up guy that sells a great product. He's got a ton of passion and loves to ride, and only wants for more people to be able to ride the best product possible (unless you see alloy or steel as superior, of course). Trying to make that an affordable thing is a challenge, but he's providing a viable solution for more of us to get on a bike and pedal (a carbon-framed bike), and that's just awesome. I'll look forward to LaMere's success and hope to see more and more their bikes out on the trail.

    Cheers!

    Jesse Hansen
    Morrison, CO

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo Foxtrot View Post
    Having known JP for a number of years, I'll go on record and say he's definitely a stand-up guy that sells a great product. He's got a ton of passion and loves to ride, and only wants for more people to be able to ride the best product possible. Trying to make that an affordable thing is a challenge, but he's providing a viable solution for more of us to get on a bike and pedal (a carbon-framed bike), and that's just awesome. I'll look forward to LaMere's success and hope to see more and more their bikes out on the trail.

    Cheers!

    Jesse Hansen
    Morrison, CO
    So you're saying that steel and alloy bikes are neither ridable nor affordable?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddslacker View Post
    So you're saying that steel and alloy bikes are neither ridable nor affordable?

    lol, no, just a thing of the past for most of the "new buyer" market. Sorry I forgot that the fatbike crowd likes steel as well. I'll have to edit my comment. I mean to say that a lot of carbon frames options aren't affordable or attractive (for fatbike newbs, like me).

  84. #84
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    Heh, I'm (mostly) messing around. I actually am pretty stoked to try some foreign carbon without having to sell a kidney.

  85. #85
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    Well isn't this thread interesting as hell? Wow, perfect way to start my day!

  86. #86
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    Pete this is at least the 3rd time I've seen you get into it with a fellow poster on different forum's regarding fat bikes and the Yampa, that you seem to defend a lot. I think it's safe to say you have a rooting interest with Borealis. You state you don't work for them, but the cynic in me says that isn't the whole truth.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Sorry if I missed it during this thread, but will this frame run with 29er+ wheelset.
    I'd be interested in this as well. If not for this carbon bike, but for future variants.
    GIS/GPS Pro using ArcFM for Utility Mapping - Always willing to connect with other MTBers in the industry.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by litespeedaddict View Post
    Pete this is at least the 3rd time I've seen you get into it with a fellow poster on different forum's regarding fat bikes and the Yampa, that you seem to defend a lot. I think it's safe to say you have a rooting interest with Borealis. You state you don't work for them, but the cynic in me says that isn't the whole truth.
    hmmmmm

    http://www.borealisbikes.com/about-us

    I'd say that the cynic in you was correct...


    MC

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    I just assumed that was Pete Basinger from Borealis since his screen name is pbasinger since 2004 and he is the biggest Borealis devotee ever. I was surprised after I defended myself with my long defensive rant and then he replied saying he does not work for Borealis...not sure how else he would have got our Facebook photo and correspondence. Not sure why he's being so defensive either, Borealis makes a cool bike, awesome for back country deep snow adventure camping and endurance events....mine is a fat racing bike, different deal, there can be more than one fatbike on the market right? Borealis also needs to quit lying about the weight of their frames. The LaMere 17" size weighs exactly 1283g, quit saying your Borealis weighs 1270, and quit lying about saying on your site you only post actual weights please, that is my main pet peeve about the bike industry is 70% of companies lying about their weights. The Borealis frame weighs at least 1330g, and who even cares we're talking about 47g big f'ing deal.
    JP LaMere
    Phone USA: (612) 326-4183
    Web: LaMereCycles.com or Facebook.com/LaMereCycles
    Email: lamerecycles@gmail.com

  90. #90
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    JP, you got an availability date and price tag for those new 65mm carbon rims?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    I just assumed that was Pete Basinger from Borealis since his screen name is pbasinger since 2004 and he is the biggest Borealis devotee ever. I was surprised after I defended myself with my long defensive rant and then he replied saying he does not work for Borealis...not sure how else he would have got our Facebook photo and correspondence. Not sure why he's being so defensive either, Borealis makes a cool bike, awesome for back country deep snow adventure camping and endurance events....mine is a fat racing bike, different deal, there can be more than one fatbike on the market right? Borealis also needs to quit lying about the weight of their frames. The LaMere 17" size weighs exactly 1283g, quit saying your Borealis weighs 1270, and quit lying about saying on your site you only post actual weights please, that is my main pet peeve about the bike industry is 70% of companies lying about their weights. The Borealis frame weighs at least 1330g, and who even cares we're talking about 47g big f'ing deal.

    Yeah, busted! If I was Borealis I'd be more worried about the factory my frames are made in at this point. If they are showing you raw out-of-the-mold frames and sending pics, who else are they doing this for? And are they selling frames to other people or companies for 1/4 of the price.

    100-200 grams of frame weight doesn't matter when your tires weight 1200-1400 grams each, IMHO.

  92. #92
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    They will start to trickle in mid Jan, hope to have all my order by end of Jan.
    JP LaMere
    Phone USA: (612) 326-4183
    Web: LaMereCycles.com or Facebook.com/LaMereCycles
    Email: lamerecycles@gmail.com

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by jplamere1 View Post
    They will start to trickle in mid Jan, hope to have all my order by end of Jan.
    Well, once things get settled, let us know when you'll have rims available and cost per rim.

  94. #94
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    Wow interesting threat. My wife even read it. I have no idea how I missed it the past couple of weeks. Cool looking bikes.

    Click goes the bar.
    Still cleaning my Fatback.
    It's a life style.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    Yeah, busted!

    Man, you guys are good. I thought I was being sneaky with the whole pbasinger thing. Who thought my first initial and last name would give me away. That’s some serious NSA stuff there.

    I'm sure there's some expert on here that can contradict me, but I don't work for Borealis. I grew up down the street from Adam the owner and I want his business to be successful. I had lots of input on the original design over a year ago, I call him from time to time to offer unsolicited advice on different things and usually let Adam crash at my place in Moab. That's about it.

    Like I said before, I’ve revised my opinion of JP based off of the picture posted earlier. I believe the factory sent him that picture as an example of something they made for another client or could make for him or whatever.

    All the other stuff contained in JPs err.. post here - I don't know. I don't work for them. I doubt there was any reneging, I bet they just decided to sell to a different, bigger shop, but I'm just guessing. Frame weight, I have no idea, what Borealis states for weights, but given they appear to come from the same factory I imagine they are about the same.

    [/QUOTE]If I was Borealis I'd be more worried about the factory my frames are made in at this point.[/QUOTE]

    I completely agree.
    Main difference is Borealis is trying to make a brand that sells to bike shops not direct. Different business model and different pricing structure.

    Carry on you all you super sleuths.

  96. #96
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    I just ordered a set of 65mm Lamere, going to lace them to some i9's...
    Design, price, warranty were my considerations (not slick marketing)
    Perfect number of bikes (n) + 1

  97. #97
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    That is a sick set of hoops my man. Very jealous.

  98. #98
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    Here is a local newspaper article with photos of the LaMere and Mr. LaMere.

    Fat bikes -- with 4-inch-wide tires -- on the rise in metro parks | Star Tribune


    <img src="http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/ows_139171230612963.jpg" width="1000">
    <img src="http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/ows_139171229449619.jpg" width="1000">
    <img src="http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/ows_139171231891149.jpg" width="1000">
    <img src="http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/ows_139171230055923.jpg" width="1000">
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  99. #99
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    I purchased a complete build from JP this week - his customer service is the BEST I have ever had in dealing with a bike related company.

    He sent me photos throughout the build process, and kept me in the loop with multiple emails letting me know the status / progress of the build / asking me my input on items.

    He shipped the bike exactly when he said he would and the bike should be here Monday.

    I visited his shop while I was in Minneapolis on business and rode the bike - it feels like my Niner race bike - but way cushier / grippy in snow. It was super fast and responsive unlike any fatty I have rode before (have not ridden a full carbon fatty in the past however)

    Thanks JP!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Here is a local newspaper article with photos of the LaMere and Mr. LaMere.

    Fat bikes -- with 4-inch-wide tires -- on the rise in metro parks | Star Tribune





    Wow great looking Lamere bike. Sorry to hijack the thread though but that black sheep fat bike in the last photo really caught my eye. Frame lines I have not seen them do before ....a real beauty!

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