kids and fatbikes

[coldbike]

I have a son who loves winter and loves bikes.
He is however 4'6" with a 24 inch standover. He weighs 65 pounds and can make a BMX race bike go through loose gravel and sand for 45-60km per day. When we go on long rides, he likes the riding and doesn't like the stopping to read the map.
It looks to me like there are several contenders that I can consider. I realize that none of these options will give us an ideal fit, but I would like to come close. I would like to keep things in the under $2200 range, and I have a fairly extensive parts bin to help with the build.
First, I was looking at the 14" fatback or the 13" 907 or the XS Mukluk. Of these, it looks to me like (and this is by extrapolation) the 907 has/will have near 24" of standover. I don't know the Fatback standover and the Mukluk is probably the tallest. We could probably compensate for some lack of standover with padded top tube and his talent for dismounting, but I would like as much as possible.
I am willing to put some 24" Large Marge wheels on the bike for the first year or so to give extra standover and I have some 150mm cranks to compensate for the lowered BB with the smaller wheels.
So my questions are:
Can this work? I have already tried him on a 13" frame standard MTB and he can ride it. I am not sure he has the power for riding on snow.
Do I need to use the smaller wheels? How would a 907 (alu) cope with smaller wheels?
What is the actual standover height of the Fatback 14" and 907 13" frames?
Should I instead be scrounging and modifying a standard MTB to make it fit 24inch Large Marges?
Should I just get him a 24" wheel bike, squeeze the widest rims and rubber I can fit in and plan on only riding in great conditions?
Or lastly, should I get him a kicksled and hook it up to my Pugsley for a different type of winter fun?

[Drew Diller]

Or lastly, should I get him a kicksled and hook it up to my Pugsley for a different type of winter fun?

This part should not have the words "or" nor "should" in it.

That sounds like fun. I have a 5 year old nephew and snow is not far away...

[brh03]

I hear you loud and clear. My son is too young (4) for a fatty but I am going to take the wheels off the bob trailer and mount a sled to it to pull him around this winter. It beats last winter of me tying the dang sled around my waist with a rope and running around.

[GrayJay]

Another thread from couple months back covering kids fatbikes you might want to check;
Kids Fat/Chubby Bike

keep in mind that a 65lbd rider needs a lot less tire width to get same flotation as a 200lbs rider on 3.7" tires. True fat tires for a tiny rider might be too much weight & resistance for him to handle.

[apbtlvr]

" He is however 4'6" with a 24 inch standover."

My guess is he'll reach 5' before you know it.
Yes, getting him properly fitted remains the best way to start. But consider upsizing on frames cause kids grow like weeds. My youngest son turns 12 at the end of this year. In May, he measured 4"11". I measured again just now and he's almost 5'3". Word

This summer, I bought him an 18" Trek 3500. At that time, the manager at my LBS suggested kids could handle larger frames more readily because they're growing fast. 4 months later, I would tend to agree. At first, I dropped the seat all the way down but have since raised it. He rides that bike daily and it fits him just fine.

If you have the option to test the size and fit on a Fatback or 907, I'd envy you and say go for it. Complete builds are within your budget. Alternatively, you might consider getting the smallest complete Mukluk or Pugsley (16") and let your son ride that for now. By the time he outgrows it, you can probably sell it it to a neighborhood kid in a minute.

[coldbike]

Going by the growth charts, he is 2 or 3 years away from 5' this is one of the reasons that I am struggling, any fatbike is going to be a stretch for him this year and I don't want to burden him with a bike that he won't enjoy riding. The Pugsley is definitely too tall for him and the Mukluk is borderline. The 907 13" frame geometry has not been published yet, but extrapolating downward from the other frame sizes shows it to be rideable.
My daughter is also in line for this bike when her brother outgrows it, so I expect it will see at least 7 years of use.
The other contender might be the fatback (al) but I have found no geometry info for it, and I believe that I read that it had a longer effective top tube than the 907. Also, it is a 14" frame.
@GrayJay, Thank you, I had looked at that thread, but I didn't want to bump it, and it seemed to leave off when the 907 frame was not yet available. I agree about the flotation, but I am thinking about the big wheels partly because that is where he will end up, and partly because they roll the obstacles better. I also find that the rolling resistance on Larrys and Endos is not that bad.

[apbtlvr]

This previous thread mentions a 4'8" rider doing ok on an XS Muk. See # 27.

[sryanak]

My wife has a small Fatback. Standover is a shade over 25" with Endos on FatSheba rims.

[Lagopus Lagopus]

I've got kids a few years behind yours, and I can affirm there will be a market for a used snowbike when your son outgrows his!

[Lintott]

No-one's too young or small for fatbiking The kids refer to it as "the Monster bike".





Ready for an early morning ride


Getting nagged about going riding all the time. - Hon, the kids want to go riding again.. I'll take one for the team and take them out for a few hours if you do the bedtime routine tonight .

Plenty of "sand castle building", food, cookie, nappy changing, and WeeWee breaks needed, though.



and hello to Mr horse breaks...


Note the high spec, super light XTR spade and bucket


You also have to learn how to ride while having to answer a never ending flow of repetetive questions.. (they will wear you down).

The only real problem is the certain, but sudden and unscheduled nap breaks that can happen at ANY time and last for about 30-45 mins....




Spot the early rider..


Only semi-fat, but they refer to the Big Dummy & the Yuba Mundo as the "Giraffe bikes" and they love them too.

Here in "aircraft carrier mode".


Still having narcolepsy problems on the long tails...

[apbtlvr]

Had to give a positive rep for being such a good dad.

[Lagopus Lagopus]

Had to give a positive rep for being such a good dad.

Absolutely!

[bnelson]

nice

[ak greeff]

here's a comparison shot of the 14 inch fatback (my wife's bike) and the 13 inch 907 (my 10 year olds bike). as far as i can tell the effective top tube of the two bikes are within a quarter inch or so of each other. as you can see the stand over on the 907 is much less. i measured to the lowest point of the top tube and came up with about 23 inches. this is not however usable stand over because the seat forces you more forward. i plan on putting a shorter kids specific seat on the bike. i am using a set of snow cat rims with endos to save weight. i dont think 70lb kids need to be running 70mm rims. i am also going to set this up as a 1x9 for weight reasons. no front shifter, derailleur, cable, housing, and extra chainrings, it all adds up. i dont have all the parts together yet so i will post pics whens it's finished. my boy basically has two rolling chassis now, with the rest of the components shared between his summer and winter bike.

[apbtlvr]

Geez, and I thought Lintott was good. Feeling just a tad inferior at the moment...

[coldbike]

here's a comparison shot of the 14 inch fatback (my wife's bike) and the 13 inch 907 (my 10 year olds bike). as far as i can tell the effective top tube of the two bikes are within a quarter inch or so of each other. as you can see the stand over on the 907 is much less. i measured to the lowest point of the top tube and came up with about 23 inches. this is not however usable stand over because the seat forces you more forward. i plan on putting a shorter kids specific seat on the bike. i am using a set of snow cat rims with endos to save weight. i dont think 70lb kids need to be running 70mm rims. i am also going to set this up as a 1x9 for weight reasons. no front shifter, derailleur, cable, housing, and extra chainrings, it all adds up. i dont have all the parts together yet so i will post pics whens it's finished. my boy basically has two rolling chassis now, with the rest of the components shared between his summer and winter bike.

Thanks, this is exactly what I wanted to know. It looks like the 907 is substantially lower. I agree with the sacrificing flotation for weight by using snowcats, in fact, I have a pair lying around that I can use. I also was thinking about 1x9 gearing so as to save some weight. I was wondering what you are using for cranks. I am thinking that I would like a 24 tooth chainring up front.
I was even thinking about getting some 24 inch large marge rims and some 3 inch tires to lower the bike a bit for the youngster. If I drill out the LMs, I can get them into the same ballpark as the snowcats for weight.

[tommignon]

[QUOTE=Lintott;8520145]No-one's too young or small for fatbiking The kids refer to it as "the Monster bike".





Ready for an early morning ride



What Child Saddle is that you are using for the front?

That thing looks awesome. I just found out I'm going to be a Grandpa. And Grandpa's should know these things.

[caminoloco]

A comparison shot between my 9-year old daughters' tiny Sandman and her previous 24" bike



Here on ride with friends

[ak greeff]

A comparison shot between my 9-year old daughters' tiny Sandman and her previous 24" bike



Here on ride with friends

What seat is that on the tiny sandman? Looks nice

[Lintott]

Congrats on becoming a Grandpa! The front seat is a Co-Rider. It is heavy, but very robust, comfortable and very quick to load and unload the passenger (the child has a separate belt around the waist which is then clicked in on two sides). It also enables the child to sit very far forward, which mean you can pedal with your knees forward like you usually do.

http://www.co-rider.com



There is also the WeeRide front seat with back support and padded front sleeping pad. I have it on a Specialized Enduro -08 (6 inch full suspension), and a Hamax on the back just like on the Mukluk & Big Dummy. Very comfy ride, but I prefer the Co-Rider seat for kids above 2Y.

WeeRide.se

Here with the front sleeping pad removed.


The Hamax rear seat is very good to be a rear seat, since it has got its own suspension and can be tilted back when they fall asleep so their head stays where it should be). Also easy to remove when you only ride with one kid in the front.

The WeeRide is OK for smaller kids, but it is more fiddly to strap the kid in. It connects to the steer tube and seat tube, not the top tube like the Co-Rider.

Front child seats are much better than rear seats (balance of bike, interaction, fun for the kid and rider etc.) until the point when the kid falls asleep...

My kids have regular fights about who should sit in the front seat, so I assume they like it more in the front.

Great way for kids to get to know the world and give dad some exercise

[caminoloco]

What seat is that on the tiny sandman? Looks nice

It's either a Brooks Team Pro S or a Finesse model, I forgot which (and haven't got the bike here to check).
All my ladies swear by them (wife, older daughters), very comfortable.

[ak greeff]

here's a quick update on the xs 907. i still need to trim the steerer tube and brake hoses. other than that, i think it's done. it's coming in at 25.04lbs, a respectable weight for what it is. sorry for the crappy camera phone pics. ill take some real photo's when i get a chance.

[gregclimbs]

dammit, better not let my 8yo see this pic...

he already asked me as I was lacing up the pugs wheels/installing BFL if he could have a bike like this...

gonna
be
broke.

[jesusburger]