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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Then there's the, "This happens to me so it must be true for everyone else in all circumstances." bias.
    Yeah, forgot about them self steer gremlins. You never know who or when they're going to strike.

    But rim width does make a difference. Wider rims can make self steer for any given tire more noticeable. Maybe that's what you're getting at.

  2. #202
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    I'll reiterate that the Ground Controls are equally free of self steer, but not as fast rolling as the Barbs. (Still not too bad) there are others too I'm sure. Not to derail the thread too badly - just driving the point home that not all fat tires are afflicted with self steer.

    I am curious as to why the Barbis don't like SF's bike.

  3. #203
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    Well let's see if we can figure out why because I'd be curious. I'm on a 2013 Borealis Yampa. 69.8 degree HA. 85mm Chinese carbon rims. Tubeless with stans. I weigh 210. I'm not even close to a fat bike noob and understand how air pressure and conditions affect the ride. I've used Bud/Lou, Jumbo Jims, BFL's,and VanHelga's on this bike. Barbegazi's are the only tire to exhibit this much self steer. At first I was trying to decide if it was self steer or exactly the opposite. To some degree I think it's both, let me explain. Without a center ridge, the two parallel ridges almost lock the tire into a forward travel path. Enough that you can feel it at the handlebar, it makes the steering feel stiff, like it's fighting a turn. Now it gets a bit weird. Once you put enough input to get past the locked in sensation, now it gets up on the ridge and the tire rolls quickly over. There's kind of a sweet spot in the corner where the tire likes to be. Roll it over a cm either direction and the tire grabs back that way. So there it is. I know what I'm feeling and I'm giving it to you straight. This tire has serious self steer. I love it for the weight, grip in snow and easy rolling resistance. Between those factors, I'm easily pushing a gear or two higher than I was with previous tires. I was in heavy, wet snow about 8 inches deep on top of hard pack today and I was very impressed. If you didn't know what the self steer felt like, you wouldn't notice it in those conditions but I can, every now and then. For me the jury's still out. There are too many positives for me to just get rid of these.
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  4. #204
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    I'd love to hear something about what the actual thread is about...I thought the euro review was reflective of my thoughts. On the groomed trails I ride, it handles everything adequately but allows me to climb and accelerate like on my skinny tire bike. However, for me, tire has very little grip in the corners. I'm running 5-6 on 4.0's. Anybody else experience this?

  5. #205
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    Alternating between the 22.9lb monster on 5.6's and the 17.4lb rocket on Juggernaut Pros these days. Both are insanely fun in their own way.
    The Pros are currently mounted on a 1960g set of 80mm carbon rims and have an effective casing width of 4.2''.
    Will soon throw them on a slightly lighter pair of 100s in order to see how the flatter profile (4.5'' casing width on 100s) works.

    I have done some tweaks to the tires and the bike is is extremely fast on firmer snow. Rolling resistance on packed snow is now virtually non existent. Weird feeling.

    Quick vid from last nights evening spin in -30F (-20C):

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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Alternating between the 22.9lb monster on 5.6's and the 17.4lb rocket on Juggernaut Pros these days. Both are insanely fun in their own way.
    The Pros are currently mounted on a 1960g set of 80mm carbon rims and have an effective casing width of 4.2''.
    Will soon throw them on a slightly lighter pair of 100s in order to see how the flatter profile (4.5'' casing width on 100s) works.

    I have done some tweaks to the tires and the bike is is extremely fast on firmer snow. Rolling resistance on packed snow is now virtually non existent. Weird feeling.

    Quick vid from last nights evening spin in -30F (-20C):

    What kind of tweaks? Knob shaving?

  7. #207
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    Our first impressions of the Kenda Juggs on my wife's Big Ed are favorable. The first day we rode in 30 degrees 3-5" of fresh and falling powder, breaking trail on non packed trails for the most part. The tires were "OK" but not awesome but I think we had the pressure to high for those condifitons and her light weight.

    Second day out with them was about 8 miles on freshly groomed singletrack (groomed with a single pass of a snow machine) and some packed trails that had been ridden in by 3-5 other bikes. Tires worked well in these conditions and I dropped a little pressure for her. some side washouts but that is to be expected given the off camber nature of those sections and the powder. Even studded D5s washed out on that stuff.

    My snowshoes had no issue either day as well......they work fine for me.
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  8. #208
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    Update on my 4.5 sports. Running them around 6 psi last ride, good flotation and solid traction on some few-inches-deep wet snow over packed snow/ice. In exposed areas the trail has a lot of very finely crushed gravel and dirt interspersed, and some of those areas were saturated with a thin layer of standing water on top. When I hit those it was like grabbing a handful of brakes. Instant super-drag, I even had to hit the granny ring to pedal through some of it. Not sure if it's the wet ground, the tires, or both. I've not ridden this condition on any other tires. On the dry areas of this surface, everything was fine if a bit draggy.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    No 4.5s as they are of no interest until they apply the technology used in the 4.0
    See my (positive) comments, vidoes, etc about the Jumbo Jims in the Jumbo Jim thread.
    Do the 4.5 Pro now use the same technology as the 4.0?

  10. #210
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    They have an extra dual core snap dragon processor.

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  11. #211
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    I ordered 4.5 Pros. We will see.

  12. #212
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    I got my 4.5 Pros delivered the other day. All I know is they weigh between 1400-1500 grams each versus between 800-900 grams for the 4.0 Pros. Should have them mounted so I can compare sizes this weekend.

  13. #213
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    Haven't actually measured yet, but you can see the size difference in these quick pictures. Everything about the 4.5's are super-sized compared to the 4.0's. Will measure later for exact comparisons. BTW both tires are mounted on the same exact Sarma Naran 80mm rims.


  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    Haven't actually measured yet, but you can see the size difference in these quick pictures. Everything about the 4.5's are super-sized compared to the 4.0's. Will measure later for exact comparisons. BTW both tires are mounted on the same exact Sarma Naran 80mm rims.

    Thanks for the pics! Are the 4.5's a thicker casing or rubber. 600gr more seems like a lot for half inch gain, especially when JJ are only 200gr for the bigger tires (quoted weights).
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  15. #215
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    They certainly feel thicker while handling them. You get much more than just half inch width. There is twice the rubber in knobs at least. Going to grab my high tech measurement devices right now lol.

  16. #216
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    4.5 Pro's on 80mm rims
    108.5mm casing width
    111.3mm knob width
    Approximately 31" total diameter to edge of lugs

    4.0 Pro's on 80mm rims
    102.5mm casing width
    92.3mm knob width
    Approximately 29" total diameter to edge of lugs

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    4.5 Pro's on 80mm rims
    108.5mm casing width
    111.3mm knob width
    Approximately 31" total diameter to edge of lugs

    4.0 Pro's on 80mm rims
    102.5mm casing width
    92.3mm knob width
    Approximately 29" total diameter to edge of lugs
    2" bigger diameter wow- that definitely would be noticeable. Do the 4.5's clear the Bluto arch ok or is it a tight fit?
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  18. #218
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    I can take similar measurements of my buddies Jumbo Jim 4.8's also on 80mm rims as soon as he gets his Fat Caad 1 back from Cannondale (Olaf took a crap after a couple rides, bummer). I will say the knobs on the JJ look unimpressive next to the knobs on the 4.5 Jugg's. Just my first impression.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    2" bigger diameter wow- that definitely would be noticeable. Do the 4.5's clear the Bluto arch ok or is it a tight fit?
    Fits fine.


  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    Fits fine.

    Sweet- thanks for taking the time to do all the pics. Looks like another contender for a lightweight summer tire.
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  21. #221
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    So the 4.0 seems optimized for light weight, and the 4.5 seems like they said "We already have the light-weight tire, now let's make this one have substantial knobs."

    Can you please measure the knob height in mm and compare that to the height of a JJ?

    My 4.5 are going on 100mm rims, so I can measure that on Friday. Scratch that. Now the tracking is saying tomorrow! I just ordered them yesterday. This seller is really going to get a good review.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    So the 4.0 seems optimized for light weight, and the 4.5 seems like they said "We already have the light-weight tire, now let's make this one have substantial knobs."

    Can you please measure the knob height in mm and compare that to the height of a JJ?

    My 4.5 are going on 100mm rims, so I can measure that on Friday. Scratch that. Now the tracking is saying tomorrow! I just ordered them yesterday. This seller is really going to get a good review.
    Most of the knobs on the 4.5 measure 5.5mm tall except for the outer knobs which measure 6.3mm. I do not have access to a JJ currently (see comment above as to why). The knobs on the 4.0 measure 2.6mm in comparison.

  23. #223
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    Got my 4.5 Pro today. It is 4.50 inches lug-to-lug on 100mm rims at 20 psi. Nice that someone is making a tire true to size (D5 I am talking about you).

    I think my knobs are 5.0mm tall, by the way.



  24. #224
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    Has anyone mounted these tubeless on Mules? Looking at using the 4.0's on MOAB trip this spring.

  25. #225
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    Do you believe that JJ are 4.8? I don't. They may be smaller than the Jug.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flucod View Post
    I have the Jugg 4.5 Sport that came stock on a Scott Big Ed and they are not wire bead, trying to figure out what they are, seems I can re-order the Sports in wire bead and the Pro in folding. Trying to save weight but thinking the Pro would not reduce any weight from these OEM Jugg. Want to try the Jumbo Jims but afraid that the 4.8's will not fit in the frame, the Jugg's are as big as allowed. Any thoughts?
    I have the 4.5 sports on my Mongoose Argus Expert and they have kevlar beads. I know this because I have spent a few days setting them up split tubeless with foam. The tires fold too easily. I almost wish they had wire beads.
    So far they have held air for a day but I have to go on a few shakedown rides.

  27. #227
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    So after more fiddling it turns out the 4.5 Sports are not tubeless ready. I got them on my wheels but when spraying water on them I could see air escaping from the carcass. I put Stans in the front and Slime in the back and neither sealed up the carcass. I suppose eventually the carcass would seal but when rolling low pressure I think they would start leaking again. I am too cheap to get different tires so back to tubes for me.

  28. #228
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    So far the 4.5 Sport is showing good predictability in snow. I don't know the limits in all conditions yet but steeper ST climbing and descending is impressive at 4 psi +/- 1. I'm glad for the big (heavy) knobs as they are getting very secure grip in some sketchy off-camber spots. If the sidewalls hold up to the low psi I am happy with the snow performance.

    Not too impressive in dry conditions, just too big and slow for me.

  29. #229
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    Glad you got yours to work tubeless.

    My bike has the gumwall version so maybe that is the difference. The tires are very loose on my bike's rims even with a 20" split tube taking up room. I think the rims must be undersized, or the tire bead oversized, or both. I wasn't getting a good feeling with the setup so went back to tubes. I don't want to have the wheel fail in a remote area.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flucod View Post
    Been running mine tubeless for 4 months without any problem or leaks now.
    I gave up and put tubes in. Mine would hold air overnight, but if I rode at 4-5 psi and hit bumps, they would leak.

    What is the lowest pressure you use?

    As for split-tube, a 24 inch tube would be thicker than a 20 inch.

    I cannot overstate just how loose a fit the tires are to the wheels. I blame the wheels. My 20 year old Mavic MTN wheels are obviously also not tubeless compatible, but the tires fit tight and I need levers to change them.

  31. #231
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    I've got both the 4.0 Pros and 4.5 Pros setup tubeless on Sarma Naran 80 wheelsets, and the only issues I have had are with the junk tubeless presta valves that come with the Orange tubeless kits. They are getting swapped for another brand presta valve today and I expect everything to be peachy. They are anything but loose on these rims which are tubeless ready hookless hoops.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    I've got both the 4.0 Pros and 4.5 Pros setup tubeless on Sarma Naran 80 wheelsets, and the only issues I have had are with the junk tubeless presta valves that come with the Orange tubeless kits. They are getting swapped for another brand presta valve today and I expect everything to be peachy. They are anything but loose on these rims which are tubeless ready hookless hoops.
    Please share some ride experience on the 4.0 when you've put some good miles in. I'm satisfied with FBN as a rear for rocky, dry southwest trails, but I know that this, JJ 4.0, or something else would make a better front.

  33. #233
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    Just received Pro 26 x 4.00
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kenda Juggernaut 26x4.0 (and 4.5)-p1000657.jpg  

    Kenda Juggernaut 26x4.0 (and 4.5)-p1000656.jpg  


  34. #234
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    Well I put the Jug Pro 4.5 on my Shaman yesterday at work because I was tired of hearing that voice in the back of my head telling me " the Flowbeist is going to fail". I have seen and read about all the issues some were having with the Flow and I didn't want that to happen to me on a long ride or some of the races I have coming up. So for peace of mind I made the tire switch.

    I mounted the Jug Pro on my HED wheel with no problems. Aired right up, the beads popped into place and all was great. I was a little worried that it would not fit in my Bluto, but it fit with some room to spare. The tire whiskers rub some on my Muckynutz fender, but nothing to worry about. I have 4.5 psi in the front tire and on the fresh groomed trail I was riding, this was working great. I had some corners where the front washed out a little, but I think that was due to the ice under the snow. All in all, for the 14 mile ride, the Jug's did better than what I was expecting. I will put some more time on this tire and see how it will do. But as for now, my Flow will hang in the garage as tire art and I'll run the Jug Pro and pray it will handle what I can throw at it out on the trails.

    For those wondering my tire choice, here is what I have been running. Front on HED wheel: Jug Pro 4.5 and on the rear on a HED wheel: VanHelga.
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  35. #235
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    I picked up a pair of Jug Pro 4.0s today. Winter disappeared overnight so Bud and Lou are going into hibernation until next winter.

    The Jugs mounted right up on the Clown Shoes with the same split tubes I was using with Bud and Lou. They did weep a little sealant at first but sealed up pretty quick after I did the Stan's dance.

    A quick ride around the block had me wondering if I had accidentally taken out my 29er. Nope, still the Moonlander, just about 3 pounds lighter. These tires roll for days, son!

    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  36. #236
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    This is the first time I have read someone say that the Juggernaught had low rolling resistance. Now true, most comments are about the Sport version, and these are dual compound Pro, so should have a higher durometer at the center. So maybe. I guess it depends on your air pressure.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    This is the first time I have read someone say that the Juggernaught had low rolling resistance. Now true, most comments are about the Sport version, and these are dual compound Pro, so should have a higher durometer at the center. So maybe. I guess it depends on your air pressure.
    Understand I'm coming from Bud and Lou, so anything would feel easier rolling.

    Side note: I have an HR2 29x2.3 in the garage and the Jug Pro 4.0 is lighter.
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  38. #238
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    So I took the Moonlander on Jug Pro 4.0s out to Antelope Island today and guess what... I didn't die!

    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    So I took the Moonlander on Jug Pro 4.0s out to Antelope Island today and guess what... I didn't die!

    Nice. The reason you didn't die was because the rolling resistance of those tires is so great that you can't go fast enough to kill yourself.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Nice. The reason you didn't die was because the rolling resistance of those tires is so great that you can't go fast enough to kill yourself.
    25mph isn't fast enough?
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    25mph isn't fast enough?
    That's a halfway decent average speed for the uphill sections.

    All kidding aside, what did you think of the tires? I haven't tried 'em, but I admit to being seduced by the weight.

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    That's a halfway decent average speed for the uphill sections.

    All kidding aside, what did you think of the tires? I haven't tried 'em, but I admit to being seduced by the weight.
    Ha, nice.

    So first test was to take them down to the beach. They do fine on consolidated sand, the stuff you can walk on easily. Super loose sand was a bit unwieldy but that could have been attributed to the 12psi I was running. Closer to the water where the sand is saturated they rolled just fine.

    The singletrack was soggy today from the snow melt and it was really rough from all the horse and buffalo traffic. However, even at 12psi the tires were very supple and I didn't get bounced all over the place. Grip is pretty good in the sandy soil out on the island.

    The descent back to the trail head is 700 feet over 2 miles. This segment is on a north aspect so there is a lot of residual snow and slush hanging around. The tires held on really well and I got to a point where I thought I was going a bit too fast for the conditions. One significant advantage I noticed about these tires is how responsive they are. Bombing downhill the buffalo patties come quick and I was able to weave in and out of them like I was riding my 29er.

    I guess I don't have the same first impression of these tires that everyone else has had but then again this thread is a mess and who knows if people are talking about the sports or pros or 4.0s or 4.5s or whatever. Also, I'm not coming off Dillinger "5"s so compared to Bud and Lou these things are fast.

    YMMV
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  43. #243
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    I am very happy with the 4.5 pro's that I put on my bike last week. They are much better in every possible way over the 4.5 snowshoe's that came on the bike. More traction (lots more), true 4.5", no self steer, lighter, and lower rolling resistance. They ended up costing me $30 out of pocket after I sold my showshoe's. No brainer for me...

  44. #244
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    I agree they have no significant self-steer and I appreciate how they tell the truth on the width. i don't get the feeling that more expensive tires like Knobby Nic are any better.

  45. #245
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    I caved to the low weight and picked up a pair of 4.0 pros. Not putting them on til all the snow is gone though. Probably in April.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Do you believe that JJ are 4.8? I don't. They may be smaller than the Jug.
    I do.

    My friend rented a Wo with the JJ's on Mulefuts and they looked bigger than my XL's on 80 MM rims and my brother in law's GC on 90's
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  47. #247
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    loos like a version of the nevegal pattern. which on the nevegal is probably the slowesr tire ever. but when they came out with the sb8 that also had a version of the nevegal lug and pattern they rolled pretty well.

    there is an awesome thread about watts and tires for 29inch tires something like that would finally tell us what tires roll the best without any bias. i am looking for a spring summer tire and have no idea where to put my money. like others the weight alone is tempting

  48. #248
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    found this article.

    The Kenda Juggernaut 4.0 Pro is the lightest FATBike tire

    seems to read alot more like what i thought a 4.0 120tpi folding bead tire would perform. i think there may be alot of confusion in this thread about who is talking about what version of tire.

  49. #249
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    Did a four hour loop on groomed surface on the modded Juggernaut Pros today.
    They are way quick on this kind of surface:



    A few more clips:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcBpNHGkc8s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orVOm4XGb9k
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  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Did a four hour loop on groomed surface on the modded Juggernaut Pros today.
    They are way quick on this kind of surface:



    A few more clips:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcBpNHGkc8s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orVOm4XGb9k
    Espen, You gotta quit torturing us with comments on how great stuff works that we can't have! At least share how you modded the Juggernauts
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