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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Then there's the, "This happens to me so it must be true for everyone else in all circumstances." bias.
    Yeah, forgot about them self steer gremlins. You never know who or when they're going to strike.

    But rim width does make a difference. Wider rims can make self steer for any given tire more noticeable. Maybe that's what you're getting at.

  2. #202
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    I'll reiterate that the Ground Controls are equally free of self steer, but not as fast rolling as the Barbs. (Still not too bad) there are others too I'm sure. Not to derail the thread too badly - just driving the point home that not all fat tires are afflicted with self steer.

    I am curious as to why the Barbis don't like SF's bike.

  3. #203
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    Well let's see if we can figure out why because I'd be curious. I'm on a 2013 Borealis Yampa. 69.8 degree HA. 85mm Chinese carbon rims. Tubeless with stans. I weigh 210. I'm not even close to a fat bike noob and understand how air pressure and conditions affect the ride. I've used Bud/Lou, Jumbo Jims, BFL's,and VanHelga's on this bike. Barbegazi's are the only tire to exhibit this much self steer. At first I was trying to decide if it was self steer or exactly the opposite. To some degree I think it's both, let me explain. Without a center ridge, the two parallel ridges almost lock the tire into a forward travel path. Enough that you can feel it at the handlebar, it makes the steering feel stiff, like it's fighting a turn. Now it gets a bit weird. Once you put enough input to get past the locked in sensation, now it gets up on the ridge and the tire rolls quickly over. There's kind of a sweet spot in the corner where the tire likes to be. Roll it over a cm either direction and the tire grabs back that way. So there it is. I know what I'm feeling and I'm giving it to you straight. This tire has serious self steer. I love it for the weight, grip in snow and easy rolling resistance. Between those factors, I'm easily pushing a gear or two higher than I was with previous tires. I was in heavy, wet snow about 8 inches deep on top of hard pack today and I was very impressed. If you didn't know what the self steer felt like, you wouldn't notice it in those conditions but I can, every now and then. For me the jury's still out. There are too many positives for me to just get rid of these.
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  4. #204
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    I'd love to hear something about what the actual thread is about...I thought the euro review was reflective of my thoughts. On the groomed trails I ride, it handles everything adequately but allows me to climb and accelerate like on my skinny tire bike. However, for me, tire has very little grip in the corners. I'm running 5-6 on 4.0's. Anybody else experience this?

  5. #205
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    Alternating between the 22.9lb monster on 5.6's and the 17.4lb rocket on Juggernaut Pros these days. Both are insanely fun in their own way.
    The Pros are currently mounted on a 1960g set of 80mm carbon rims and have an effective casing width of 4.2''.
    Will soon throw them on a slightly lighter pair of 100s in order to see how the flatter profile (4.5'' casing width on 100s) works.

    I have done some tweaks to the tires and the bike is is extremely fast on firmer snow. Rolling resistance on packed snow is now virtually non existent. Weird feeling.

    Quick vid from last nights evening spin in -30F (-20C):

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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Alternating between the 22.9lb monster on 5.6's and the 17.4lb rocket on Juggernaut Pros these days. Both are insanely fun in their own way.
    The Pros are currently mounted on a 1960g set of 80mm carbon rims and have an effective casing width of 4.2''.
    Will soon throw them on a slightly lighter pair of 100s in order to see how the flatter profile (4.5'' casing width on 100s) works.

    I have done some tweaks to the tires and the bike is is extremely fast on firmer snow. Rolling resistance on packed snow is now virtually non existent. Weird feeling.

    Quick vid from last nights evening spin in -30F (-20C):

    What kind of tweaks? Knob shaving?

  7. #207
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    Our first impressions of the Kenda Juggs on my wife's Big Ed are favorable. The first day we rode in 30 degrees 3-5" of fresh and falling powder, breaking trail on non packed trails for the most part. The tires were "OK" but not awesome but I think we had the pressure to high for those condifitons and her light weight.

    Second day out with them was about 8 miles on freshly groomed singletrack (groomed with a single pass of a snow machine) and some packed trails that had been ridden in by 3-5 other bikes. Tires worked well in these conditions and I dropped a little pressure for her. some side washouts but that is to be expected given the off camber nature of those sections and the powder. Even studded D5s washed out on that stuff.

    My snowshoes had no issue either day as well......they work fine for me.
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  8. #208
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    Update on my 4.5 sports. Running them around 6 psi last ride, good flotation and solid traction on some few-inches-deep wet snow over packed snow/ice. In exposed areas the trail has a lot of very finely crushed gravel and dirt interspersed, and some of those areas were saturated with a thin layer of standing water on top. When I hit those it was like grabbing a handful of brakes. Instant super-drag, I even had to hit the granny ring to pedal through some of it. Not sure if it's the wet ground, the tires, or both. I've not ridden this condition on any other tires. On the dry areas of this surface, everything was fine if a bit draggy.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    No 4.5s as they are of no interest until they apply the technology used in the 4.0
    See my (positive) comments, vidoes, etc about the Jumbo Jims in the Jumbo Jim thread.
    Do the 4.5 Pro now use the same technology as the 4.0?

  10. #210
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    They have an extra dual core snap dragon processor.

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  11. #211
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    I ordered 4.5 Pros. We will see.

  12. #212
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    I got my 4.5 Pros delivered the other day. All I know is they weigh between 1400-1500 grams each versus between 800-900 grams for the 4.0 Pros. Should have them mounted so I can compare sizes this weekend.

  13. #213
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    Haven't actually measured yet, but you can see the size difference in these quick pictures. Everything about the 4.5's are super-sized compared to the 4.0's. Will measure later for exact comparisons. BTW both tires are mounted on the same exact Sarma Naran 80mm rims.


  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    Haven't actually measured yet, but you can see the size difference in these quick pictures. Everything about the 4.5's are super-sized compared to the 4.0's. Will measure later for exact comparisons. BTW both tires are mounted on the same exact Sarma Naran 80mm rims.

    Thanks for the pics! Are the 4.5's a thicker casing or rubber. 600gr more seems like a lot for half inch gain, especially when JJ are only 200gr for the bigger tires (quoted weights).
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  15. #215
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    They certainly feel thicker while handling them. You get much more than just half inch width. There is twice the rubber in knobs at least. Going to grab my high tech measurement devices right now lol.

  16. #216
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    4.5 Pro's on 80mm rims
    108.5mm casing width
    111.3mm knob width
    Approximately 31" total diameter to edge of lugs

    4.0 Pro's on 80mm rims
    102.5mm casing width
    92.3mm knob width
    Approximately 29" total diameter to edge of lugs

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    4.5 Pro's on 80mm rims
    108.5mm casing width
    111.3mm knob width
    Approximately 31" total diameter to edge of lugs

    4.0 Pro's on 80mm rims
    102.5mm casing width
    92.3mm knob width
    Approximately 29" total diameter to edge of lugs
    2" bigger diameter wow- that definitely would be noticeable. Do the 4.5's clear the Bluto arch ok or is it a tight fit?
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  18. #218
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    I can take similar measurements of my buddies Jumbo Jim 4.8's also on 80mm rims as soon as he gets his Fat Caad 1 back from Cannondale (Olaf took a crap after a couple rides, bummer). I will say the knobs on the JJ look unimpressive next to the knobs on the 4.5 Jugg's. Just my first impression.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    2" bigger diameter wow- that definitely would be noticeable. Do the 4.5's clear the Bluto arch ok or is it a tight fit?
    Fits fine.


  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    Fits fine.

    Sweet- thanks for taking the time to do all the pics. Looks like another contender for a lightweight summer tire.
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  21. #221
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    So the 4.0 seems optimized for light weight, and the 4.5 seems like they said "We already have the light-weight tire, now let's make this one have substantial knobs."

    Can you please measure the knob height in mm and compare that to the height of a JJ?

    My 4.5 are going on 100mm rims, so I can measure that on Friday. Scratch that. Now the tracking is saying tomorrow! I just ordered them yesterday. This seller is really going to get a good review.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    So the 4.0 seems optimized for light weight, and the 4.5 seems like they said "We already have the light-weight tire, now let's make this one have substantial knobs."

    Can you please measure the knob height in mm and compare that to the height of a JJ?

    My 4.5 are going on 100mm rims, so I can measure that on Friday. Scratch that. Now the tracking is saying tomorrow! I just ordered them yesterday. This seller is really going to get a good review.
    Most of the knobs on the 4.5 measure 5.5mm tall except for the outer knobs which measure 6.3mm. I do not have access to a JJ currently (see comment above as to why). The knobs on the 4.0 measure 2.6mm in comparison.

  23. #223
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    Got my 4.5 Pro today. It is 4.50 inches lug-to-lug on 100mm rims at 20 psi. Nice that someone is making a tire true to size (D5 I am talking about you).

    I think my knobs are 5.0mm tall, by the way.



  24. #224
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    Has anyone mounted these tubeless on Mules? Looking at using the 4.0's on MOAB trip this spring.

  25. #225
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    Do you believe that JJ are 4.8? I don't. They may be smaller than the Jug.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flucod View Post
    I have the Jugg 4.5 Sport that came stock on a Scott Big Ed and they are not wire bead, trying to figure out what they are, seems I can re-order the Sports in wire bead and the Pro in folding. Trying to save weight but thinking the Pro would not reduce any weight from these OEM Jugg. Want to try the Jumbo Jims but afraid that the 4.8's will not fit in the frame, the Jugg's are as big as allowed. Any thoughts?
    I have the 4.5 sports on my Mongoose Argus Expert and they have kevlar beads. I know this because I have spent a few days setting them up split tubeless with foam. The tires fold too easily. I almost wish they had wire beads.
    So far they have held air for a day but I have to go on a few shakedown rides.

  27. #227
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    So after more fiddling it turns out the 4.5 Sports are not tubeless ready. I got them on my wheels but when spraying water on them I could see air escaping from the carcass. I put Stans in the front and Slime in the back and neither sealed up the carcass. I suppose eventually the carcass would seal but when rolling low pressure I think they would start leaking again. I am too cheap to get different tires so back to tubes for me.

  28. #228
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    So far the 4.5 Sport is showing good predictability in snow. I don't know the limits in all conditions yet but steeper ST climbing and descending is impressive at 4 psi +/- 1. I'm glad for the big (heavy) knobs as they are getting very secure grip in some sketchy off-camber spots. If the sidewalls hold up to the low psi I am happy with the snow performance.

    Not too impressive in dry conditions, just too big and slow for me.

  29. #229
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    Glad you got yours to work tubeless.

    My bike has the gumwall version so maybe that is the difference. The tires are very loose on my bike's rims even with a 20" split tube taking up room. I think the rims must be undersized, or the tire bead oversized, or both. I wasn't getting a good feeling with the setup so went back to tubes. I don't want to have the wheel fail in a remote area.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flucod View Post
    Been running mine tubeless for 4 months without any problem or leaks now.
    I gave up and put tubes in. Mine would hold air overnight, but if I rode at 4-5 psi and hit bumps, they would leak.

    What is the lowest pressure you use?

    As for split-tube, a 24 inch tube would be thicker than a 20 inch.

    I cannot overstate just how loose a fit the tires are to the wheels. I blame the wheels. My 20 year old Mavic MTN wheels are obviously also not tubeless compatible, but the tires fit tight and I need levers to change them.

  31. #231
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    I've got both the 4.0 Pros and 4.5 Pros setup tubeless on Sarma Naran 80 wheelsets, and the only issues I have had are with the junk tubeless presta valves that come with the Orange tubeless kits. They are getting swapped for another brand presta valve today and I expect everything to be peachy. They are anything but loose on these rims which are tubeless ready hookless hoops.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    I've got both the 4.0 Pros and 4.5 Pros setup tubeless on Sarma Naran 80 wheelsets, and the only issues I have had are with the junk tubeless presta valves that come with the Orange tubeless kits. They are getting swapped for another brand presta valve today and I expect everything to be peachy. They are anything but loose on these rims which are tubeless ready hookless hoops.
    Please share some ride experience on the 4.0 when you've put some good miles in. I'm satisfied with FBN as a rear for rocky, dry southwest trails, but I know that this, JJ 4.0, or something else would make a better front.

  33. #233
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    Just received Pro 26 x 4.00
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kenda Juggernaut 26x4.0 (and 4.5)-p1000657.jpg  

    Kenda Juggernaut 26x4.0 (and 4.5)-p1000656.jpg  


  34. #234
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    Well I put the Jug Pro 4.5 on my Shaman yesterday at work because I was tired of hearing that voice in the back of my head telling me " the Flowbeist is going to fail". I have seen and read about all the issues some were having with the Flow and I didn't want that to happen to me on a long ride or some of the races I have coming up. So for peace of mind I made the tire switch.

    I mounted the Jug Pro on my HED wheel with no problems. Aired right up, the beads popped into place and all was great. I was a little worried that it would not fit in my Bluto, but it fit with some room to spare. The tire whiskers rub some on my Muckynutz fender, but nothing to worry about. I have 4.5 psi in the front tire and on the fresh groomed trail I was riding, this was working great. I had some corners where the front washed out a little, but I think that was due to the ice under the snow. All in all, for the 14 mile ride, the Jug's did better than what I was expecting. I will put some more time on this tire and see how it will do. But as for now, my Flow will hang in the garage as tire art and I'll run the Jug Pro and pray it will handle what I can throw at it out on the trails.

    For those wondering my tire choice, here is what I have been running. Front on HED wheel: Jug Pro 4.5 and on the rear on a HED wheel: VanHelga.
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  35. #235
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    I picked up a pair of Jug Pro 4.0s today. Winter disappeared overnight so Bud and Lou are going into hibernation until next winter.

    The Jugs mounted right up on the Clown Shoes with the same split tubes I was using with Bud and Lou. They did weep a little sealant at first but sealed up pretty quick after I did the Stan's dance.

    A quick ride around the block had me wondering if I had accidentally taken out my 29er. Nope, still the Moonlander, just about 3 pounds lighter. These tires roll for days, son!

    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  36. #236
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    This is the first time I have read someone say that the Juggernaught had low rolling resistance. Now true, most comments are about the Sport version, and these are dual compound Pro, so should have a higher durometer at the center. So maybe. I guess it depends on your air pressure.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    This is the first time I have read someone say that the Juggernaught had low rolling resistance. Now true, most comments are about the Sport version, and these are dual compound Pro, so should have a higher durometer at the center. So maybe. I guess it depends on your air pressure.
    Understand I'm coming from Bud and Lou, so anything would feel easier rolling.

    Side note: I have an HR2 29x2.3 in the garage and the Jug Pro 4.0 is lighter.
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  38. #238
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    So I took the Moonlander on Jug Pro 4.0s out to Antelope Island today and guess what... I didn't die!

    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    So I took the Moonlander on Jug Pro 4.0s out to Antelope Island today and guess what... I didn't die!

    Nice. The reason you didn't die was because the rolling resistance of those tires is so great that you can't go fast enough to kill yourself.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Nice. The reason you didn't die was because the rolling resistance of those tires is so great that you can't go fast enough to kill yourself.
    25mph isn't fast enough?
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    25mph isn't fast enough?
    That's a halfway decent average speed for the uphill sections.

    All kidding aside, what did you think of the tires? I haven't tried 'em, but I admit to being seduced by the weight.

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    That's a halfway decent average speed for the uphill sections.

    All kidding aside, what did you think of the tires? I haven't tried 'em, but I admit to being seduced by the weight.
    Ha, nice.

    So first test was to take them down to the beach. They do fine on consolidated sand, the stuff you can walk on easily. Super loose sand was a bit unwieldy but that could have been attributed to the 12psi I was running. Closer to the water where the sand is saturated they rolled just fine.

    The singletrack was soggy today from the snow melt and it was really rough from all the horse and buffalo traffic. However, even at 12psi the tires were very supple and I didn't get bounced all over the place. Grip is pretty good in the sandy soil out on the island.

    The descent back to the trail head is 700 feet over 2 miles. This segment is on a north aspect so there is a lot of residual snow and slush hanging around. The tires held on really well and I got to a point where I thought I was going a bit too fast for the conditions. One significant advantage I noticed about these tires is how responsive they are. Bombing downhill the buffalo patties come quick and I was able to weave in and out of them like I was riding my 29er.

    I guess I don't have the same first impression of these tires that everyone else has had but then again this thread is a mess and who knows if people are talking about the sports or pros or 4.0s or 4.5s or whatever. Also, I'm not coming off Dillinger "5"s so compared to Bud and Lou these things are fast.

    YMMV
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  43. #243
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    I am very happy with the 4.5 pro's that I put on my bike last week. They are much better in every possible way over the 4.5 snowshoe's that came on the bike. More traction (lots more), true 4.5", no self steer, lighter, and lower rolling resistance. They ended up costing me $30 out of pocket after I sold my showshoe's. No brainer for me...

  44. #244
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    I agree they have no significant self-steer and I appreciate how they tell the truth on the width. i don't get the feeling that more expensive tires like Knobby Nic are any better.

  45. #245
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    I caved to the low weight and picked up a pair of 4.0 pros. Not putting them on til all the snow is gone though. Probably in April.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Do you believe that JJ are 4.8? I don't. They may be smaller than the Jug.
    I do.

    My friend rented a Wo with the JJ's on Mulefuts and they looked bigger than my XL's on 80 MM rims and my brother in law's GC on 90's
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  47. #247
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    loos like a version of the nevegal pattern. which on the nevegal is probably the slowesr tire ever. but when they came out with the sb8 that also had a version of the nevegal lug and pattern they rolled pretty well.

    there is an awesome thread about watts and tires for 29inch tires something like that would finally tell us what tires roll the best without any bias. i am looking for a spring summer tire and have no idea where to put my money. like others the weight alone is tempting

  48. #248
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    found this article.

    The Kenda Juggernaut 4.0 Pro is the lightest FATBike tire

    seems to read alot more like what i thought a 4.0 120tpi folding bead tire would perform. i think there may be alot of confusion in this thread about who is talking about what version of tire.

  49. #249
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    Did a four hour loop on groomed surface on the modded Juggernaut Pros today.
    They are way quick on this kind of surface:



    A few more clips:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcBpNHGkc8s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orVOm4XGb9k
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  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Did a four hour loop on groomed surface on the modded Juggernaut Pros today.
    They are way quick on this kind of surface:



    A few more clips:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcBpNHGkc8s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orVOm4XGb9k
    Espen, You gotta quit torturing us with comments on how great stuff works that we can't have! At least share how you modded the Juggernauts
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  51. #251
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    Well here goes. I am very interested in the 4" PRO, mainly because of the weight. Most
    of what I have read seems fairly negative, as did both of my LBS techy people that I regulary ask their opinions on all new items, so I did what I usually do when everyone says don't, I ordered two and I can't wait to have them installed and try them out for myself. I will keep this forum informed !

  52. #252
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    I put two Kenda Juggernaut 26x4 Sport on my Boris X5 yesterday. The side of those tire seem very thine and since most of my riding is on pavement I put a Mr Tuffy band inside to avoid to have some flat. Those tire are very fast and no noise compare to the Vee Snowshoe/Bulldozer that I ride all winter.
    Tomorrow we might received some mix precipitation and I will had to put back the Vee.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rejtheedge View Post
    I put two Kenda Juggernaut 26x4 Sport on my Boris X5 yesterday. The side of those tire seem very thine and since most of my riding is on pavement I put a Mr Tuffy band inside to avoid to have some flat. Those tire are very fast and no noise compare to the Vee Snowshoe/Bulldozer that I ride all winter.
    Tomorrow we might received some mix precipitation and I will had to put back the Vee.

    are you sure the sidewalls are that thin? your tire is the 1285g version and the pro version which is also the more supple one with 120tpi casing is around 820g.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    are you sure the sidewalls are that thin? your tire is the 1285g version and the pro version which is also the more supple one with 120tpi casing is around 820g.
    This is why reports can't be trusted. Nobody even knows what they have!
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  55. #255
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    It will say on the side what it is. If it says Pro, it's 120 tpi and about 820g. If it says Sport it's 60 tpi and about 1280g.

  56. #256
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    I ordered the 4.0 pro's recently for summer riding on my BG. They came in at 840g and 870g. I look forward to mounting them up tubeless in a couple weeks once the snow is gone. They have every indication a fast and subtle rolling tire should have, hopefully they won't disappoint.

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmanios View Post
    I ordered the 4.0 pro's recently for summer riding on my BG. They came in at 840g and 870g. I look forward to mounting them up tubeless in a couple weeks once the snow is gone. They have every indication a fast and subtle rolling tire should have, hopefully they won't disappoint.
    Could you post a photo of the tread when inflated? Let us know a ride report, too! I'm interested in this asa front on dirt. Putting it against a JJ and a FBN

  58. #258
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    will do!

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmanios View Post
    will do!
    Thanks!

  60. #260
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    Just ordered mine - 4.0 Pros folding $104 for the pair - free shipping! e-bay vendor out of Milwaukee WI. 3 days!

  61. #261
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    I picked up a set of 4.0 Pros at my LBS. It was the only set that they brought in so I snagged them. I was expecting them to be bit bigger when mounted. These will be my spring-summer-fall tires so I am not all that worried about the loss of width over my Nates.

    My DIY studded Nates weight almost 1600g each. I popped one of the Juggernauts on the scale and it read 882g. These new tires combined with my new Sarma CF rims are going to be a nice light setup! I will be losing almost 1.5 kgs (3.3 lbs) on the tires, alone. Can't wait 'til spring to try this out!!

  62. #262
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    Just got my welcome present from the best wife in the world, she went away and brought me home my two new 26 x4.0 PRO tires. The first one weighed in at 799 gr
    and the second was 830 gr. Next step will be the installation, but not yet-still using my Van Helgas. to be continued ...

  63. #263
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    Subscribing as I'm looking for a light, fast rolling tire for summer conditions. It somewhat feels like the Fat Bike world forgot about these tires because of the long delay from announcement to availability.

    I have a pair of Minion FBF/FBRs which are great for Fall/Spring riding and studded Snowshoe XLs for winter.

    I have tried Fat B Nimbles (4.0/wire bead) and found their grip lacking, especially in variable conditions (wet, leave covered trails). They do roll fast on very unchallenging terrain (think: riding the rail trail alongside my wife). But honestly, after washing them out at speed a couple of times.. they ain't going back on the rim. Zero trust.

    Somewhat puzzled how a low profile knob tire at ~850 grams can feel like it doesn't roll fast.... that's a head scratcher.

    Looking forward to more real rider reviews on dirt.

  64. #264
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    Same boat. My FBN is fine for the rear, but I'm not a huge fan of it as a front.

  65. #265
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    My Juggernaut 4.0 Pro's (120tpi) only made it one ride, and then I switched back to my Nates(27tpi), which are almost twice the weight.

    I just felt the Juggernaut didn't grip as well, and self steered. I did not have a decent air pressure guage at the time, so I don't know if air pressure was part of my problem.

    I am riding a Wednesday with the stock rigid fork, so I can't afford to run too much air pressure up front. Maybe the 4.0 Pro would work better for someone with a bluto where they can run a higher air pressure because they are not worried about tire rebound as much.

    It kind of sucks, it would have been a great World in which we could run an excellent 4" inch tire that weighted less the 900 grams. Now I guess we can only dream of such a utopia.

  66. #266
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    I'm still looking forward to mounting mine up in the weeks ahead.. I read that the 4.0 pros tend to self steer when run under 8 psi on pavement but I plan to use these on a mix of gravel roads and local trails. I will update with my impressions come spring time. I'm using 120 tpi Nates for the winter but I'm obviously not going to expect the same level of grip from the J-Pros. Once everything dries up around here, I doubt that will be an issue..

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman29 View Post
    My Juggernaut 4.0 Pro's (120tpi) only made it one ride, and then I switched back to my Nates(27tpi), which are almost twice the weight.

    I just felt the Juggernaut didn't grip as well, and self steered. I did not have a decent air pressure guage at the time, so I don't know if air pressure was part of my problem.

    I am riding a Wednesday with the stock rigid fork, so I can't afford to run too much air pressure up front. Maybe the 4.0 Pro would work better for someone with a bluto where they can run a higher air pressure because they are not worried about tire rebound as much.

    It kind of sucks, it would have been a great World in which we could run an excellent 4" inch tire that weighted less the 900 grams. Now I guess we can only dream of such a utopia.
    wow that is a pretty short trial. was the self steer that bad? did they are least feel light and roll fast? i am guessing you are running tubes since you switched back so quickly.

  68. #268
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    I have about half a dozen rides on my Pro 4.0s. Most in northern Utah and one ride in Missouri. They are holding up better than I expected. I'm running mine around 10psi (200lbs geared up). At lower pressure they do self steer but I expected that considering they are stretched to the max on 100mm rims. I don't think these tires were intended for lower pressure. The thin casing depends on a large volume air to help support it. Compared to Bud and Lou these tires roll very fast (on dirt!). Night and day difference really. Don't even think about riding them on any kind of snow. Well maybe 2 inches of snow would be ok but I'm throwing Bud and Lou back on next winter at the first sign of snow.

    The rebound at 10psi isn't that bad, IME. I've bounced over boulders in Utah and roots in Missouri and never thought it was unbearable. Really I didn't even think about it until I read some of the posts in this thread just now.
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  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    I have about half a dozen rides on my Pro 4.0s. Most in northern Utah and one ride in Missouri. They are holding up better than I expected. I'm running mine around 10psi (200lbs geared up). At lower pressure they do self steer but I expected that considering they are stretched to the max on 100mm rims. I don't think these tires were intended for lower pressure. The thin casing depends on a large volume air to help support it. Compared to Bud and Lou these tires roll very fast (on dirt!). Night and day difference really. Don't even think about riding them on any kind of snow. Well maybe 2 inches of snow would be ok but I'm throwing Bud and Lou back on next winter at the first sign of snow.

    The rebound at 10psi isn't that bad, IME. I've bounced over boulders in Utah and roots in Missouri and never thought it was unbearable. Really I didn't even think about it until I read some of the posts in this thread just now.

    I agree, I started with my usual 8psi on the Pro 4.0's and found the tires rolled ok, but not as well as the JJ's. I added a few psi and the tires felt faster, without sacrificing ride quality. I ended up settling on 12psi. I think the thin flexible casing increases drag at low psi, more so than stiffer rubber/sidewalls found on other tires. Treat them more like a plus tire with the air pump and you'll be happier.

    I've got about 35mi on mine, however very few on dirt as most of the local trails are a mess. Grip on fresh snow is better than I expected, although I haven't had more than 3". They are awful on ice- Not just the glare smooth ice that only a studded tire works on, but on rough, semi ice surfaces that a Vanhelga grips like Velcro on, these spin and slide until you fall off.
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  70. #270
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    Yes, I am running tubes. I did not have a good air pressure Guage when I did my one ride on the jug pro 4.0s.

    I do now and I am going to experiment with my Nates on pressure. If I can ride comfortable on Nates above 8 lbs then I might try switching back to trying the jags again.

    I see some guys are having good luck with the jug 4.0 at 10lbs and 12lbs. I am just not sure if I am willing to run those pressures.
    Last edited by Sandman29; 03-06-2016 at 08:36 AM.

  71. #271
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    Hi Guys,

    Looking to get a pair of Juggernaut 26x4.0 Pro tires. I'm just worried about the thin side walls people are mentioning - although I don't see any reports of cuts.

    I'm building up a fat racing bike for summer trails and a lot of the races I have in mind have rocky descents and climbs and decent sand sections, hence the fat bike.

    Can the 120 tpi 4.0 Pros handle rocks without cutting the side walls? Any experiences there?

  72. #272
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    I have the 4.5 Juggs on my Blackborow and wouldn't begin to call them slow. I can't attest to how they perform in snow but on singletrack they've exceeded my expectations (grip and speed).

  73. #273
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    I mounted the 4.0 pros with light tubes yesterday and lost 3 lbs. compared to my previous setup with Nates. I should lose a bit more weight once I go tubeless too. No ride report yet, I'm only riding this weekend. I look forward to seeing what a 29 lb. alu beargrease feels like..

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctearor View Post
    I have the 4.5 Juggs on my Blackborow and wouldn't begin to call them slow. I can't attest to how they perform in snow but on singletrack they've exceeded my expectations (grip and speed).
    120tpi?

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    120tpi?
    Yes, 120 tpi...So far they've been awesome. Is it the 60 tpis that seem to be the slow-rollers?

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctearor View Post
    Yes, 120 tpi...So far they've been awesome. Is it the 60 tpis that seem to be the slow-rollers?
    It would appear so, but who knows?

  77. #277
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    First ride with the 4.0 pros today and wow do they impress.. I've previously ridden Husker Du's, Nates, Chao Yang 4.0 on my last fat bike (same tread pattern as the FBN) and Snowshoe XL's. The rolling resistance on the 4.0 pros is much lower than anything else I've tried to date. My beargrease really takes off now whether it's from a standstill or while riding. As previously mentioned, I lost 3 lbs vs my Nates and I'm still running tubes for now.

    They barely make noise on pavement and I've experienced no self steer what so ever. They track very straight and there's absolutely no steering wobble when riding without hands on gravel or pavement. I started with a high psi of 10 as recommended by somebody else above but they're very, very plush and I didn't feel any harshness at all at this pressure. I had the chance to take them on some gravel roads and a few short soft snow sections. They were very predictable on dirt and surprisingly capable on the left over snow we have around here. I look forward to many more miles on these to see how they perform in other conditions and on the trails once things dry up around here.

    So far my impressions are very positive and are definitely in line with the review found here.

    The Kenda Juggernaut 4.0 Pro is the lightest FATBike tire

    Only thing I wasn't a fan of was the excessive use of white on the sidewalls. I covered the 'juggernaut' with a sharpie and left only the outline visible kinda like the ground controls. I doubt it will last very long but I prefer subtle graphics personally.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmanios View Post
    First ride with the 4.0 pros today and wow do they impress.. I've previously ridden Husker Du's, Nates, Chao Yang 4.0 on my last fat bike (same tread pattern as the FBN) and Snowshoe XL's. The rolling resistance on the 4.0 pros is much lower than anything else I've tried to date. My beargrease really takes off now whether it's from a standstill or while riding. As previously mentioned, I lost 3 lbs vs my Nates and I'm still running tubes for now.

    They barely make noise on pavement and I've experienced no self steer what so ever. They track very straight and there's absolutely no steering wobble when riding without hands on gravel or pavement. I started with a high psi of 10 as recommended by somebody else above but they're very, very plush and I didn't feel any harshness at all at this pressure. I had the chance to take them on some gravel roads and a few short soft snow sections. They were very predictable on dirt and surprisingly capable on the left over snow we have around here. I look forward to many more miles on these to see how they perform in other conditions and on the trails once things dry up around here.

    So far my impressions are very positive and are definitely in line with the review found here.

    The Kenda Juggernaut 4.0 Pro is the lightest FATBike tire

    Only thing I wasn't a fan of was the excessive use of white on the sidewalls. I covered the 'juggernaut' with a sharpie and left only the outline visible kinda like the ground controls. I doubt it will last very long but I prefer subtle graphics personally.
    what rim are you using these tires with?

  79. #279
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    Mulefut

  80. #280
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    Strava!!!!

    20 miles and 1,110 feet of gain on pavement, gravel, dirt, beach sand, beach rocks, and beach mud. Still managed slightly over 10mph on the Jugs. I think I'm going to need a bigger chain ring. 36T ain't gonna cut it.
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  81. #281
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    Honestly, how much of a difference does -.5" and weigh make?(have the 4.5" snowshoe) I'd like to believe it's as noticeable as 26 to 29, 2.2" but it's hard to have the faith to drop the cash with a hope and a prayer. Game changer-ish for summer fat?
    It's hard to look at my 29er, looks anorexic but it's mostly cosmetic negative placebo. Be cool to hear some humbling negative thoughts on the matter.
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  82. #282
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    I think it's a huge difference in feel.
    I have a Mongoose Argus Expert which on paper is far superior to a $450 Panther Hercules Pro that has 80mm rims with Chaoyang 4.0. The Argus is far slower and tank like with its Jug 4.5s and 100mm rims even though the bike is .75 kg lighter than the Panther.
    I personally don't mind the extra heft of my bike, that's what makes it fun for now.
    If I wanted a high performance bike it wouldn't be a fatbike.
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  83. #283
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    First ride with my new 4.0/120tpi PRO's. Mostly on frozen grass, mud and harden trails
    as the snow is all gone, but it is colder. In a nutshell-not bad, not bad at all. Quieter than my VanHelgas, obviously lighter. Not quite the grip in peanut butter mud but no real complaints. I only rode for a couple of hours, but not bad. Did I mention I saved around 2 lbs, on a bike that weighs 22.1 before the swith. I am probably riding a 20 lb fatbike
    no complaints !

  84. #284
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    Has anyone tried grip studs on the 4.5? I have 4.5 sport models that came on my bike. Thinking. About getting the 4.0 pro models for summer and using the 4.5 studded sport in the winter.

  85. #285
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    Finally got my juggernaut 4.0 pro tires in the 120 tpi version. I am going to mount them up with the fatty stripper stuff I got awhile ago. I will do my best to post weights and I also plan on even doing a little comparison between the ground control tires that are on my bike now. I have an idea for a silly little experiment to test the rolling resistance. I don't have high hopes for it but maybe I will get some good data out of it.

  86. #286
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    I have 3 rides on mine. All three have been 2-2.5 hrs on dry, hard trail or pavement
    and I have only good things to say. Quiet-probably due to low height of the knobs.
    Fast, and I should say light-as previously stated I saved about 500 grams per wheel.

  87. #287
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    21 rides on mine. Still going fast and strong.
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  88. #288
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    I agree with the above, though I've only got a couple rides on my 4.0s. Mostly dry, with occasional mud and sand areas and they held up very well with no washouts. They roll great, as expected. I'm sure they would slip in serious mud or sand, but one has to know that going in based on the knobs. For dry hardpack, they appear to be a great tire (especially when factoring in weight and price).

  89. #289
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    +1 for me, fast rolling, light (~850g each). Very low profile tread for a fatbike tire, but similar height to the RRs on my XC bike.

  90. #290
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    All I have to say is I've never felt such a difference in a tire changeover before. Only had 27tpi Snowshoe for fat comparison, but the changeover was night and day on the dirt. Handful of light 3.8-4.0" options but the bottom line is that if you hang the fat up for summer, try to ride a fat with light, fast and slimmer tires. Guess if they rip to shreds , I'll hang it up, hope juggernot is not a disposable fragile investment.
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  91. #291
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    Could some let me know how round the 4.0 and 4.5 are compared to the Nates? I'm asking in terms of corner traction with side nobs. They seem round in pictures but angles can be deceiving.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    Could some let me know how round the 4.0 and 4.5 are compared to the Nates? I'm asking in terms of corner traction with side nobs. They seem round in pictures but angles can be deceiving.

    A narrower rim would likely yield a rounder profile. Conversely a wider rim would exhibit a flatter squarer profile. It would be like comparing apples to oranges unless you can tell us which specific rim you run. Then we can compare apples to apples.


    Fat Biker

  93. #293
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    I haven't directly compared to the Nate, but I'd say the 4.0 is definitely on the rounder side, as it doesn't have large protruding edge knobs (which you've probably seen in photos). Mine measures 4.0" casing width, but only about 3.6" knob-knob (about 15 psi on 80mm rims). You're getting a super lightweight tire, so there is less rubber all around.

  94. #294
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    Just got a 4.0 for my front tire. Thinking of adding another one to the rear for the weight savings, but I'm questioning the grip for a rear tire with the short knobs. I ride mostly hard pack and sometimes greasy mud single track. Can anyone give an opinion as a rear tire?

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    A narrower rim would likely yield a rounder profile. Conversely a wider rim would exhibit a flatter squarer profile. It would be like comparing apples to oranges unless you can tell us which specific rim you run. Then we can compare apples to apples.

    Fat Biker
    Rims are 80's, I'm trying to see if I can get a rounder profile tire before dropping dough on a new set of thinner wheels. Just need a bit more corner traction on the harder leans. The 4.5 Pro's weight around the same as the Nates, but in pictures really seem to balloon out nicely. Just not sure if it's pictures or reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by dayooper View Post
    I haven't directly compared to the Nate, but I'd say the 4.0 is definitely on the rounder side, as it doesn't have large protruding edge knobs (which you've probably seen in photos). Mine measures 4.0" casing width, but only about 3.6" knob-knob (about 15 psi on 80mm rims). You're getting a super lightweight tire, so there is less rubber all around.
    I was expecting that the 4.0 might still be as boxy as a Nate on a 80mm rim. But if it's rounder then maybe the 4.5 would balloon nicely?

  96. #296
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    Weighed my tires today. 850 and 860 grams. I am also doing the fatty stripper tubeless conversion at the same time. I weighed my old ground controls and tubes. Between the new tires and going tubless I am dropping 4.9lbs maybe a little less if my weight of the stans is off. All for under 200 bucks.

    Hopefully a ride report before the weekend is over.

  97. #297
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    I picked up a pair of the 4.5 sports. Got them mounted up this weekend, I am having trouble getting the bead to sit right on the rims (Frames Pro Z). So right now the tires are not perfectly round and I am rubbing on my rear tire. I was riding this weekend to see if I can get them to soften up and sit right but so far no dice. I am running 7 pounds rear and 6 in the front, will try to drop the pressure down for this next weekends ride to see if that helps. I inflated with a floor pump so nice and slow, and I messaged them during the inflate but they are still not right. Any suggestions???

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by op71 View Post
    I picked up a pair of the 4.5 sports. Got them mounted up this weekend, I am having trouble getting the bead to sit right on the rims (Frames Pro Z). So right now the tires are not perfectly round and I am rubbing on my rear tire. I was riding this weekend to see if I can get them to soften up and sit right but so far no dice. I am running 7 pounds rear and 6 in the front, will try to drop the pressure down for this next weekends ride to see if that helps. I inflated with a floor pump so nice and slow, and I messaged them during the inflate but they are still not right. Any suggestions???
    Did you try soapy water on the beads and inflating to 20+ psi?
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  99. #299
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    Got a good ride (finally dry enough) on my 4.0 Pros last weekend. Have them mounted tubeless on Marge Lites (3 year old gorilla tape still doing the job), on a Pugs. Summer mode is SS and with these tires, the large Pugs comes in just under 29 lbs. Totally different bike than it was with a wire bead Larry and Vee Slowshoe. It hauls and wants to leave the ground more Cornering traction seems darn good and the tire rolls extremely well. Quite happy with the purchase. Fat got even more fun with them and that's what it's all about.

  100. #300
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    I finally got around to mounting my 4.0 Pros last week. I have them set up tubeless on Sarma Naran 80 rims (carbon fibre). Right off the bat, I dropped over 3lbs over the studded Nates. The Pug now sits at sub 27 lbs. The drop in weight and decrease in rolling resistance is phenomenal! Almost like riding a whole different bike!!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    One thing, though, I had some air seepage on the sidewalls with one tire. The rear would lose up to 1 lb per hour - even after one week and over 150 kms. The loss was so small that I could not find it by immersing the tire/rim in water. The only was to see it was to wet the surface of the tire and look for "micro-bubbles" of frothing. There were two sections where you could see the air slowing weeping through the sidewall. The Stan's was having trouble sealing it up, too!! At last resort, I laid the tire/rim on its side so the Stans would pool in the affected area and let it sit for a good while. I did this with the tire near the woodstove to warm it up and, hopefully, speed up drying of the sealant in the holes. It appears to have worked as the tire is holding air just fine now.
    Last edited by Sean-M-Dawe; 04-20-2016 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Added picture

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