If money was not object, what do you get a moonlander or a necro...

[patineto]

Necrowhatever you call them..

Keep in mind I like the "Mountain bike" feel other than that I will be riding in Utah snow most of the time (In my head I don't see riding when is not snowing for now at least)

Thanks as usual for the invaluable advice

[richulr]

I was wondering the same thing but for regular trail riding.

[rumblestrip]

Moonlander. Why the hell not?

It's what I did. I'm not doing long remote expeditions or swapping wheels all the time or any of that. I wanted a fat bike. So I got one. No regrets.

It's another horse in the barn for me, it's not my only horse, but it is the funnest horse.

[bcrisp]

Necro. Been doing 16-20mile rides 2500+ foot climb rides on the necro .
I get on my super light carbon superbly and wish I was on the fat bike. Tons of traction and lots of fun

[patineto]

Necro. Been doing 16-20mile rides 2500+ foot climb rides on the necro

.Why did you get the Necro and not the moonlander...??

I get on my super light carbon superbly and wish I was on the fat bike. Tons of traction and lots of fun

I also have a superfly that I love (Hate trek but love the bike) so I look forward for something even more fun..

[patineto]

Moonlander. Why the hell not?

It's what I did. I'm not doing long remote expeditions or swapping wheels all the time or any of that. I wanted a fat bike. So I got one. No regrets.

It's another horse in the barn for me, it's not my only horse, but it is the funnest horse.

I have plenty of bikes to ride, in fact I don't even ride them all (fancy expensive Vintage stuff) so is not like I'm going to be changing rims or wheels on it I just take a different bike.

Riding for days, NoPe I can not do that, we just got a new baby so my time allowance is only about 2hours at the most, so I need to make it count..

[bcrisp]

I a riding it cross country in the mountains of NM. Don't need the 4.7 tire on the rear( Necro uses the same fork as the moony and will run a 4.7 upfront). I drilled my Daryl's, set them up tubless and converted to a 1/9. Lighter than a moony, fast, accelerates great, and plows through rocks. No grace or skill riding point it and pedal!

I would save the money between a Necro and a moony and use it to upgrade brakes and maybe upgrade the shifters and go to a 10 speed cassette

[patineto]

I a riding it cross country in the mountains of NM. Don't need the 4.7 tire on the rear( Necro uses the same fork as the moony and will run a 4.7 upfront). I drilled my Daryl's, set them up tubless and converted to a 1/9. Lighter than a moony, fast, accelerates great, and plows through rocks. No grace or skill riding point it and pedal!

I would save the money between a Necro and a moony and use it to upgrade brakes and maybe upgrade the shifters and go to a 10 speed cassette

Oh I'm thinking of only getting the frame, rims and tires, the rest of the parts I already have (xtr most of it, XT Top mount shifters) the bottom bracket I'm thinking a square taper Phil wood so I can run some of my old and super dependable M900's (if they fit if not old XT's or suntour XC-pro compact drive) if not does pretty red raceface cranks I saw somewhere for cheap..

[Nakedbabytoes]

Necro.

I entertained the thought of a moonie but it was overkill 99% of the time.

And now that I have the necro, 4" endo flat tread works much better for me than the rounded 5" offerings out there, so I think I wouldn't have liked the moonie as much and might have even regretted it after a while.

The 4" platform has been around for many years and there are more options out there for upgrades and add ons than the moonie currently has.

[Drew Diller]

Right now? Since winter (if I end up getting to call it that) is a short time away?

Moonlander.

[Joshua_B]

If money was not an issue, I would buy both! But it is, so I'll stick with my necro!

[bdundee]

If money was no object I wouldn't buy either one!

[saltyman]

If your riding snow quite a bit......you want the moony

[patineto]

If money was no object I wouldn't buy either one!

Lets say I can get a really good deal from QBP, but not from the other companies.

[patineto]

So what are the differences, Yes I study the geometry numbers, but do they have wider chainstays/seatstays and a widder bottom bracket is require, is that all..

[bdundee]

Lets say I can get a really good deal from QBP, but not from the other companies.

Oh I understand completely, go Moonie for snow!

[modifier]

Neither if cost doesn't drive your decision. I'd buy a Blacksheep. This is assuming we are limited to rigid. Which most of you are. Fortunately I am not

add: I remembered that BS makes bikes with rear suspension using a "flex" link. So not limited to rigid after all. BS are baaaad ass

[DavidJohn]

I wondered the same thing.. and then went with the Moonie.. and I'm glad I did.

DJ

[moose244]

Ti Mukluk cause thats what i have

[motorman]

For your question - riding in snow only I would deffo say go for the moonlander.

But......

You will soon want to ride it all the time, everywhere if you are like most of us here, so keeping that in mind, I would recommend the Necro. This is only because it give you more option to use different wheels in the rear & in general, is more adaptable to whatever you want to do with the bike in the future.

[mjduct]

I would (and did) go with the necro, because where I am in Texas, we haven't seen Snow since '85, and the necro has more than enough tire for the trails and beaches I'll be riding it on in my neck of the woods.

[AC/BC]

Go custom and have someone weld up a Ti fat frame to your liking. Or, maybe even a custom carbon builder.

[Greenfin]

I would say neither if money is no object. I feel there are significantly more advanced bikes then both those options.

[SupremeDork]

I just finished assembling my Moonlander last night. It's so effing RAD!

I went with the Moonlander because I already have a Giant Reign X1 all-mountain rig and a Surly Troll for [insert build here], so I needed a bike that would be a world apart from the other two. That's really all it boiled down to.

I realize the Neck Romancer is almost a Moonlander, but it's still not a Moonlander.

Go big or go home!

I really hate that saying. lol

[patineto]

For your question - riding in snow only I would deffo say go for the moonlander.

Yes that is my intention so far, but I'm willing to change my opinion when I get the bike

But......

You will soon want to ride it all the time, everywhere if you are like most of us here, so keeping that in mind, I would recommend the Necro. This is only because it give you more option to use different wheels in the rear & in general, is more adaptable to whatever you want to do with the bike in the future.

So what are the difference..

From what I understand the pug is offset 18mm in the rear when the moonlander is offset 24mm. is this correct...?

Again I have plenty of bikes to ride when is not snowing, are this things that fun on the dry that I will want to ride it year round..?

But then why change the wheels to narrower one..

Ps: I was thinking in building a 83mm set of rims since does 100mm are just to wide and also single wall, is that stupid..?

[mrbmeisen]

I am in the same boat, I am leaning towards the Necro, for the all year round and $$$$. I am not the guy who bunny hops off of pick nick tables but I do like the small pump track jumps and and rolling hills, stairs, urban assault riding. I have been told that the Pug is more durable than the Moonie in that retrospect too. But what I hear is that diff of 82mm vs 100mm rims. In inches that is a difference of 1/4 inch abouts. Is that 1/4 inch worth that little flotation. Or am I completely wrong? Also does anyone have anything to say about the frame strengths of the moony vs pug?

[VTPossum]

18mm = almost 3/4". How much flotatation one "needs" varies by rider weight. I'm a clyde, therefore I opted for all the help I could get with flotation /traction (Moonlander w/Bud&Lou). It is proving to be a very fun bike. I was very suprised how capable a trail bike they are. Just my .02 Good Luck/Have Fun. It sounds like a good problem to have.

[pbasinger]

The Moonlander has a slightly taller head tube. Big plus in my opinion. If you're main purpose is riding in snow I'd go with the Moonlander since it alows the bigger rim and tire options. Little heavier, but big deal, it will make you stronger and you won't have to have to walk when all your friends are able to ride on their Moonlanders.

[duggus]

I just finished assembling my Moonlander last night. It's so effing RAD!

I went with the Moonlander because I already have a Giant Reign X1 all-mountain rig and a Surly Troll for [insert build here], so I needed a bike that would be a world apart from the other two. That's really all it boiled down to.

I realize the Neck Romancer is almost a Moonlander, but it's still not a Moonlander.

Go big or go home!

I really hate that saying. lol

I'll second that! Just got my Moonlander build finished Friday and got back from riding the river a few minutes ago. The floatation in sand and muck is unreal! I kept thinking I was gonna sink in but never happened. Very happy with my Moonlander.

[DubzOxford]

I went with the Necro after doing weeks of research on the same subject. Switched out the stock Nate and Larry tire, the stock tubes, switched the saddle to a Devo, swapped stem and post with a Thomson and got it down to 33lbs. This is now my full time ride from here on out. Dropped the sub 20lb 29er Single speed to go Fat! Good luck with your choice, either bike you will enjoy.

[Houndog45]

What is the $ difference between the 2??

[pastorgarret]

I would use a Pugsley!

The Moonlander is more than I need. I am using the pug for winter commuting and need more flexibility that the pugs steering gives (in my humble thinking). I will be going on some trails and in hotter weather flying down some single track for fun. I think the Moonlander is only good for snow and too sluggish for regular cycling. The Necro has the Moonlander fork and bigger wheel so I consider it a Moonlander of sorts. So if money was no object I would by the Krampus.

This is just the way my drive chain works.

[Saul Lumikko]

I was facing the same decision: Neck Romancer or Moonlander? I was building from parts so the price difference wasn't going to be big.

I figured I could use RD + BFL in the rear but that would be the max for NM. Forks are the same so no difference there. Pretty much the only benefit of the Moonlander was the ability to use a Clown Shoe and BFL or even Lou in the rear.

Flexibility to anything smaller was not a consideration, because I already have other mountain bikes for fast riding on easier trails. The fat one was going to be fat and nothing else.

I ended up with the Moonlander. I figured that there will be a point where anything smaller would stop, but the ML would reach a bit further and allow me to go where other fat bikes can't. The only downside is that it's a bit heavier and slower on easier trails, but I won't be bothered to think about it. It's not a race and it would take a clock to tell the difference.

If you want versatility to use smaller rims and tires and plan to cover a lot of distance instead of seeking the most difficult terrain you can, then the Neck Romancer will probably be better. You can still ride it on and through probably 95% of the same stuff as a Moonlander.

[lancelot]

Moonlander FTW! The Pugsley is a skinnybike nowadays

[bighit]

What is the $ difference between the 2??

Well I can chalk up another one I converted. what's up houndog

Moonlander all the way especially since you have other bikes. I can't believe how nice my moonlander is.

[duggus]

I think the Moonlander is only good for snow and too sluggish for regular cycling.

You think or you've actually test ridden? Sorry, I don't agree with this. I rode my Moonlander on some groomed singletrack and it was just as easy as riding my 29er. Either bike will be great for you. You can run the huge 4.8 tires on the moonlander and you can run 3.8's in the summer if you want as well. Both bikes are good looking machines.

[pastorgarret]

You think or you've actually test ridden? Sorry, I don't agree with this. I rode my Moonlander on some groomed singletrack and it was just as easy as riding my 29er. Either bike will be great for you. You can run the huge 4.8 tires on the moonlander and you can run 3.8's in the summer if you want as well. Both bikes are good looking machines.

Yes I did ride a Moonlander for about 8 hours. I really liked the bike, but found that it's stirring for me was stiffer than the Pug, not as responsive. It is a nice bike and I was going to buy this bike until I got to ride a Pug for two weeks to work and back, in the snow and found the Pug a little quicker and more responsive. I don't own a Moonlander and that could be the difference. Owning a bike and trying one for a few hours is very different. So I respect what you are saying; you would know way more than me. Plus I am just starting out in the Fat Bike arena. My experience is in touring and commuting.

[nvphatty]

Moonlander FTW! The Pugsley is a skinnybike nowadays

[ultraspontane]

Moonie for dedicated fatbike, Pugs for versatility.

[pastorgarret]

Moonie for dedicated fatbike, Pugs for versatility.

I would agree with this statement.

But don't push me out of the Fat Bike arena it just got into the Fat Bike thing. :-(

[bighit]

A moonie is best left for the fat bikers that know what they are getting Into. 100mm/bud lou for life!

[Clobber]

I have owned both. Fell in love with the Nec, so I thought the Lander would be even better. It was in a few ways (beach riding, taking on small obstacles). Got in a financial pinch & sold the Lander. Got a Nec on order. It is simply more versatile, much faster in XC, & costs much less. IMO, Surly has the Lander overpriced because it really has no competition in that exact platform. Both bikes are awesome tho, can't go wrong with either. Also, it is/was my only bike, so if I had multiply bikes I might feel differently. Lastly, I eventually plan to try Rabbit Holes on it once there is enough evidence that they do indeed fit & handle well. Here's the kicker for me, I have a chance to buy a like new 907 frame for a good price. Do I leave well enough alone & stay Nec, or gamble once again? Be nice to loose a few lbs. when riding XC with good riders on 29ers.

[bighit]

907.

[mjduct]

If money was no option probably something completely different like 907's new 186mm bike. but Since money was an option and realistically I'll never see snow (Its 80 degrees today, I'm in short sleeves) I went with the Necro Pug. you can go as fat as you want up front but you are a little limited in the rear...

[pastorgarret]

A moonie is best left for the fat bikers that know what they are getting Into. 100mm/bud lou for life!

I have been biking for 35 years and done it all, so I know what I am getting into. The Fat Bike trend is fun though and I haven't had a smile on my face when bike for a long time. Now when I get on my Pug I just can't stop grinning. Some one asked me just the other day. "what's got you so happy," I said cause I am Fat! Then drove off. lol

Now when I drive home I look for the difficult way home.

[vaultbrad]

Money is a consideration, but i would have made the same decision. Placed an order for a necro less than an hour ago at the shop. Psyched.

[Houndog45]

Well I can chalk up another one I converted. what's up houndog

Moonlander all the way especially since you have other bikes. I can't believe how nice my moonlander is.

Hey Big guy!!!!! I'll probably get a pugs...I'm not likely to ride too much mud..
If my plans work out,I will mostly ride on the street...
I could spend the $800 or so difference on racks,bags and nice lights...
And some Floyds...

[Crafft]

The Moonie is the fatter fat bike

[PretendGentleman]

I just went fat front, as I didn't want to throw too much money at something I'd never ridden or even seen (folks suggest finding a demo, but none happen near me).

Now I'm thinking about the frame. Surly says that you can run a knard on rabbit hole (29+) in a pugsley, but the offset of the moonlander is too much. I'm a bit skeptical that you couldn't make it work, but this is the main reason I'm shying away from a moonlander.

I figure that flotation is great, but the loss of power from the rear flexing suggests 29+ on the rear and 26fat on the front would be a great and fun cx machine. If I buy puglsey now, I still have the option to run just about any setup. In a couple of years I'm sure we'll hear of people running 29+ on their moonlanders with some rim that's wider than the rabbit hole.

[garysol1]

Like you I was between a Necro and a Moon and also like you it had to come from QBP. I went with the Necro because I felt like the bigger wheels and tires on the Moon made it a bit less flexable of a bike and a bit more dedicated of a snow bike. I felt the Necro was a better all a rounder. Being my first fat bike I had nothing solid to base my opinion on but after spending time on my bike I feel like I made the right choice.

[autodoctor911]

not that I would necessarily choose either of those, since I have gone with the Fatty, I rode both at a LBS and the Necro seemed to steer more naturally, where as the Moonl. seems to flop. The necro was a 18" and the Moonl. a 20", both stock builds. I know the fork and head angle are the same, but I guess the extra inch of tire radius increases the trail by 1/tan(headtube angle) X diff in tire radius= ~.35" more trail, or maybe it was just the extra 20mm stem length on the large size build kit. Either way, the necro felt fine, and the Moonlander did not.

[Saul Lumikko]

Autodoctor, the Moonlander has a longer effective top tube even as the same size Pugsley and the one you were riding was a size bigger than the comparison. I don't think it's surprising at all to find that it didn't handle as well as the Necro, which apparently was the right size for you.

I'm not saying you observed something that isn't there - the Moonlander is a bit of a slower pig. But the incorrect size has probably exaggerated the difference.

[flatlandersk]

I built up a necro thinking I didn't want/need a Moonie. I got a Bud on clownshoe and it made me love my necro more. So now I wish I had just gotten a Moonie so I had the option of 4.7 when I wanted it.

[mrbmeisen]

Living in Illinois, I have forest preserve trails by CAMBR to ride mostly, maybe be I am just ignorant of my true potential or options for riding to justify the Moonlander. I did test the Necro and the Moonlander after being sized and I did only ride them around the shop not in a realistic setting. I like the way the Necro rode over the Moonlander but i only tested them both in a parking lot. My other issue, is that I have only one chance at this, and I have some serious hesitation issues. This sucks, they both seem to be rockstar rides for the midwest. Any Chicagoland Moonie owners out there. I would buy both if I had the money. It also made me think of selling my 2003 26" Epic....

[bighit]

Yeah you won't be needing that Epic.

[rumblestrip]

Yeah you won't be needing that Epic.

doh, you beat me to it!

I wonder how much different Chicagoland riding is to Minneapolisland riding? Maybe a bit less snow and a bit warmer and there have to be some good stretches of Lake Michigan beach to poach. Almost no one is unhappy with their purchase of either of these bikes, but I'll say if you are seriously considering the moonie, do it, go big.

[pursuiter]

...Any Chicagoland Moonie owners out there. I would buy both if I had the money. It also made me think of selling my 2003 26" Epic....

I'm in Palatine, I bought a Pugs on Dec 2010 and a Moonie Dec 2011. I never ride my Pugs anymore, my sons love it. I ride my Moonie exclusively because it's more funner.

[autodoctor911]

I don't think it was the extra length. I am 6'2'' and should ride a large. The steering feel I was not fond of on the moonie was not the large turning radius, but the feel of the front wheel wanting to pull itself into the turn. this has to do with head angles and rake, which are the same on all Pugs and moonies, but bigger tires need more rake. or steeper head angle to get the same trail. The Moonie with an adjustable headset, or a fork with a little more rake would probably feel as good as the Necro.

I imagine a necro with a 4.7" front tire would be even worse(IMO) steeering, since the difference in front to rear tire hieght would slacken the head tube. Same for adding a suspension fork without adequate rake for the resulting head angle.

[rumblestrip]

A tip from my experience to those on the fence and are able to test ride the bikes.

I test rode a Black Ops (now Necromancer) Pug for a weekend a year before I got my Moonie. I really had fun with the bike I was bitten by the bug, but I did not care for the effort it took to steer it and the sluggish nature of the handling...so... I got my Moonie a year later and I couldn't believe how much better it handled because I was expecting a similar feel.... but...

I realized after developing a baseline of fat tire riding experience and messing about I know what caused the difference, it's tire pressures. The Black Ops I was riding at very low pressure, But I had no idea. I was a total noob and I never messed with it. I now know there is a wide range of performance characteristics inherent in different tire pressures.

The moral of the story is, if you test ride them, make sure you are careful about riding them under similar conditions and most importantly tire pressures. Until you own own one you wont quite get why it's so important, but as we all know tire pressures for the right conditions are the secret ingredient that makes these bikes so great.

[autodoctor911]

I actually had them air up the tire on the moonie, and still didn't like it. But steering feel is subjective.