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  1. #1
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    How To: Tubeless Wheel Windows

    Disclaimer:
    There are easier ways of doing a tubeless fat setup. You have been warned. The purpose of this is to be able to see inside the tire so one can check the condition of the sealant…… Also, it’s pretty cool.

    Step 1
    Tools and Materials:
    -Xacto Knife/Razor Blade
    -Tape Measure
    -Tubeless Valve
    -Tubeless Tire Sealant
    -Tape 1: Duck HD Clear
    -Tape 2: Gorilla
    -Tape 3: Scotch ¾” (standard scotch tape)
    -Foam: Super Firm Closed-Cell Sponge-Rubber 3/8” x ¼” x 10ft (for windows. Good for 1 rim)



    Step 2
    Making the Rim Strip
    The rim strip is 2 pieces of 2” clear tape with the sticky sides together. One is cut exactly 70” long and the other is cut exactly 65” long. The short piece is centered on the long piece which leaves 2 ½” of sticky tape on each end. It's easier if you have an assistant here. Ashley is holding the tape for me while I press it together.




    Step 3
    Installing the Rim Strip
    Place the 2 ½” sticky part of the rim strip centered over the valve hole of the rim and push out all the bubbles. Tightly pull the rim strip around the rim and attach it to the rim with the other 2 ½” sticky part. It should also be centered on the valve stem hole. Check to ensure that the entire strip is centered on the rim.




    Step 4
    Sealing the Rim
    Next is the Gorilla tape. For the Marge lite rims you are going to want 11/16” strips of this stuff. Just measure that distance from the side of the roll and tear it along the roll like so. Do not remove it from the roll. You will use the roll as a handle for pulling. Install the tape around the rim with the edge of the tape going up tight against the rim edge. You are going to want to pull this tape incredibly hard when you are installing it. You want it to stretch and be nice and smooth all the way with no bubbles or wrinkles. Repeat for other rim bead.





    Step 5
    Compressing the Tape and Setting a Bead
    Cut open the valve hole and install a tire and tube. This is done for 2 reasons. One is to use the tube to compress the tape to make a good seal between the gorilla tape and the rim and the gorilla tape and the rim strip. The other reason is to seat one of the beads. It’s much easier to seal this up when you only have to deal with one side of the tire. I usually let the tire sit for a few hours at 30 psi to ensure everything is sealed up nicely.

    Step 6
    Foam Prep
    I do this while I’m waiting for the tape to seal up. The foam needs to be cut at an angle to aid in sealing up the tire. Cut the foam at this angle the entire length. You will need enough to go around the entire rim, so about 6 ft.



    Step 7
    Foam Install
    Let the air out of the tire, remove the tire from one side of the rim, and remove the tube. I emphasize one side of the rim. Leave the other side seated. Install the tubeless valve stem. Install the strip of triangle shaped foam around the rim like so.




    Step 8
    Scotch Tape
    The scotch tape is used to make a smooth transition for the tire bead. Install it over the foam and up nice and tight against the rim side just like the Gorilla tape. You should pull this tape somewhat tight but not so tight as to compress the foam. It should look like this. It’s hard to see the tape in this picture….. Because it’s clear.



    Step 9
    Air!!!
    Pull the tire bead up over the foam and onto the bead lock about halfway around the rim. Then, while ensuring that stays on the bead lock, start pulling the tire bead just up onto the foam. The reason for the foam is that you can’t pull the tire bead entirely onto the bead lock by hand so you need an intermediary location to hold it tightly enough so it will hold air until the air pushes it onto the bead. This is the half of the tire bead that is just on the foam.



    Next, put that pump to work. If you did everything right up until now, it will take air right away so crank it up to 25-30 psi. If it’s not taking air, listen for where it is coming out. Once you get it up to pressure check to ensure that the bead is seated evenly by looking at the tire sight line. It’s the little line on the rubber right next to the rim. You should be able to see it evenly all the way around the tire. If you can’t, the foam is probably caught in the bead. This is the sight line right next to the rim edge.



    Step 10
    Sealant
    If all is well, let all the air out and pop the foam side bead off again and install sealant. Or remove your valve core and install sealant. Either way, it’s time to pump er up to high pressure and do the sealant dance! Shake it, turn it, shake it… till nothing comes out.

    Enjoy.

  2. #2
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    w00t! thanks.

  3. #3
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    Awesome! You rock. Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Good work !
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  5. #5
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    Dude. Awesome fat tubeless instructions. Seemingly dumbed down for us “not as techy as the others” folks. Now I think I will try this again on my wife’s fatbike.
    QUOTE from MTBR.COM: You have given Brewtality too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

  6. #6
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    If i didn't weigh around 270#, i would start drilling my rims by now !
    Good step by step instructions with pictures, what more could we ask ?


  7. #7
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    Very nice write up, thanks for sharing all your secrets..

  8. #8
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    Thank you!

  9. #9
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    I do have a question, where do you buy the Duck HD tape..??

    Is this just so thick packing tape or something more sophisticated like Mylar tape

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    I do have a question, where do you buy the Duck HD tape..??

    Is this just so thick packing tape or something more sophisticated like Mylar tape
    I used this tape because it is super clear and yet quite tough. It is sold at menards along with most everything else for this setup.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    I used this tape because it is super clear and yet quite tough. It is sold at menards along with most everything else for this setup.
    Cool thanks for the leads, I need to pay a visit to that store anyway to get the latex mold builder.

  12. #12
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    What do you think of this Mylar tape is super duper strong, for sure stronger than packing tape and use to repair sails on boats so I'm sure is very sticky and also waterproof.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    What do you think of this Mylar tape is super duper strong, for sure stronger than packing tape and use to repair sails on boats so I'm sure is very sticky and also waterproof.
    I dont know anything about that mylar. The stuff that I recommend is very strong, very clear, and very available locally. The materials that I chose are easy to acquire and cheap.

    2 pieces of the HD Clear stuck together the way I do it is probably much stronger than you may think.

  14. #14
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    On a side note, if a person is concerned with the strength of the rim strip just add more layers. The roll is wrapped many hundreds of times from the factory and is as clear as a single piece of glass. Plus it weighs almost nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    I dont know anything about that mylar. The stuff that I recommend is very strong, very clear, and very available locally. The materials that I chose are easy to acquire and cheap.
    Mylar is crazy strong stuff use on many things like the leading edge of hanglider wings (that was my first encounter with) but maybe you are right and is much to fancy for this application..

    2 pieces of the HD Clear stuck together the way I do it is probably much stronger than you may think.
    I think I'm going to give your method a try since your tape is transparent when my material is only translucent (even if is really resilient) for added effect..

  16. #16
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    Do you have any photos looking thru the cut-outs to see the sealant?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Do you have any photos looking thru the cut-outs to see the sealant?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Do you have any photos looking thru the cut-outs to see the sealant?
    That's the only good pic I could get. I tried taking one of the sealant on the bottom of the tire looking thru the window but my camera couldn't focus on it. It kept focusing on the window itself.

  19. #19
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    Try taking the photo outside with good lighting.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabies010 View Post
    Try taking the photo outside with good lighting.
    I had really good lighting and used it in a multitude of ways. I have one more trick that ill maybe try tonight.

  21. #21
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    That is a cool idea. Ever think of adding food coloring to the sealant since its visible now?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlongfx View Post
    That is a cool idea. Ever think of adding food coloring to the sealant since its visible now?
    Thats what I was thinking

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlongfx View Post
    That is a cool idea. Ever think of adding food coloring to the sealant since its visible now?
    Adding food coloring could definitely be a nice touch.

  24. #24
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  25. #25
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    Open up a few glow sticks! You have to store wheels in the freezer and snap em before use

  26. #26
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    Oh, crap! I just thought of a great way of doing lighting inside that would be super easy!! Back to the store.

  27. #27
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    Pleas tell us what it is.....

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Do you have any photos looking thru the cut-outs to see the sealant?
    The sealant doesn't really do anything cool, but here it is. Again, It's easier to see in person than thru a camera.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How To:  Tubeless Wheel Windows-tubeless-fat-bike-002.jpg  


  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabies010 View Post
    Pleas tell us what it is.....
    I will happily share if it works and I find the right lights.

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  31. #31
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    I end up ordering Monokote from amazon (because is easy)

    I think the material offer the perfect blend of features, this variation of Mylar is use on model planes, is thermoformable so you just need a heatgun to mold it to shape, it adheres to other surfaces really easy and is also really strong (for how tin it is) so hopefully will not puncture to easy, plus is design to use with corrosive gasoline (nitrometane) so my hope is the chain lubricants will not damage the finish of fade the clear view..

    I tell you more in a few days when I get it install..

  32. #32
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    Ok now we need hot chicks in fur coats on fat bikes that look like extras from a Fast and Furious movie deciding to bike commute for a day. Better get Adaptrac in on the deal for the "hydraulics" effect.

    VSSHHT VSSHHT!

    Haha... ah, I shouldn't make fun. Sorry, couldn't help myself. I'll go back to my own equally strange devices... Carry on.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  33. #33
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    I shed 1.5lbs on my Mukluk by going tubeless tonight. We'll see how well it holds up. I didn't end up doing the clear window method. The rim strip was adheared quite well to the rim, so I just removed the tube, added tubeless presta valve, 3 scoops of Stans and it's all sealed up.

  34. #34
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    sail repair tape is just expensivly branded packaging tape...
    same base material, but the glue on the sail repair type is most likely better then of packaging tape, also, tape itself will be thicker

  35. #35
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    I got the aluminum valve stems today, very nicely made.

  36. #36
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    I install the Monokote tonight but I'm not super happy with the results, the material is just to thin and I'm afraid it will get puncture to easy (even if is suppose to be really strong)

    On the other hand the aluminum valves are great.


    The search continues for a really strong transparent material..

  37. #37
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    What about that heavy nylon you can buy at Joanne Fabrics the stuff for making tablecloth covers? I'm not going tubeless now but just a thought.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    The search continues for a really strong transparent material..
    Really? Have you even tried my suggestion? I'm betting no.

    Quote Originally Posted by f00g View Post
    What about that heavy nylon you can buy at Joanne Fabrics the stuff for making tablecloth covers? I'm not going tubeless now but just a thought.
    Is it clear?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Really? Have you even tried my suggestion? I'm betting no.
    Yes I did but I'm kind of picky about this things, first I did not like it was only 48mm wide (they say 2" inches but is not) and then I did not like that is was so "Brittle" and easy to cut..

    Today I when to Joann fabrics (I'm pretty sure everybody has one close by) and I purchase 2 yards (70" are require) of Vinyl, the kind that you use to make windows on tents, sadly I don't remember the gauge but it was the $4.95 thickness (one thinner, one thicker).

    In fact if anybody want some just send me a PM and I will send you two lengths (60mm by 70" long) I only ask you to pay for the shipping cost (needs to be a box so the material is rolled with out kinks)

    I just install one on my rear wheel and it when great it adapts perfect to the curve of the rim and the concave segment of the rim profile..

    Thanks EP for all the inspiration, with out you I will not have the vision to make it happen.

  40. #40
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    I guess it boils down to "whatever is available to you, suits your preference and works".

    I'm looking forward to getting my own Clownshoes so I can set them up like this. With lights.

    Just a thought about getting the loose bead to hold air when installing the tire: I've found it helpful to put the wheel on its side with the seated bead upwards, so the weight of the tire comes down on the unseated bead. This is with 29er tires. Do you think it would work on fat bikes as well or is the foam trick mandatory?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post

    I'm looking forward to getting my own Clownshoes so I can set them up like this. With lights.
    I want Lights too but I just don't know how to turn them off, a Motion sensor will be wonderful

  42. #42
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    Ps: the Vinyl is 6" by 4" so I have a ton of the stuff that I can cut in different widths depending it you have clown shoes or 80mm rims..

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    this is a cool thread...i'll just mark it for now til it all sinks in.
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  44. #44
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    So I take it the vinyl from Joannes worked? I thought about it because I was there the other day looking for some nice orange vinyl, sadly they didn't have any. It's a good idea to get on Joanne's mailing list they are always sending out 40 and 50% off coupons. My wife keeps getting upset because I keep steeling her coupons.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by f00g View Post
    So I take it the vinyl from Joannes worked?
    Yes the transparent Vinyl works awesome, I even got lucky with the right thickness and everything

    I thought about it because I was there the other day looking for some nice orange vinyl, sadly they didn't have any. It's a good idea to get on Joanne's mailing list they are always sending out 40 and 50% off coupons. My wife keeps getting upset because I keep steeling her coupons.
    I use to have a great Huck up when I live in San Francisco with tons of great fancy materials (goretex, corduras, mylar, etc) but now I'm relegated to buy retail like anybody else and Joanne fabrics is not a bad place to start..

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    I want Lights too but I just don't know how to turn them off, a Motion sensor will be wonderful
    How about the lights and battery inside the tire with a magnetic reed switch? Turn the lights on by putting a magnet in a certain place on the rim.

    Another thought would be to ground the system to the rim (most feasible at the valve I think), lead one wire through and along a spoke to the hub, where the battery and switch would be located. This way only one wire needs to pass through from the inside of the tire.

    Just throwing ideas.

  47. #47
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    Another tape thought if you don't like what the OP is using is scotch 3850 heavy duty packaging tape. I just used a roll to pack a bike up for shipping and that stuff is seriously thick and strong. Definitely the heaviest and nicest packaging tape I've ever used. Picked it up at the LHWS but here's the link to it on walmart Scotch 3850 Heavy Duty Packaging Tape, 2" x 55 yards, Clear: Office : Walmart.com

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Adding food coloring could definitely be a nice touch.
    nah, fill it up with glow stick sauce! :-)

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    Just a thought about getting the loose bead to hold air when installing the tire: I've found it helpful to put the wheel on its side with the seated bead upwards, so the weight of the tire comes down on the unseated bead. This is with 29er tires. Do you think it would work on fat bikes as well or is the foam trick mandatory?
    I tried that trick and it didn't work for me, but I'm sure someone else could have better luck knowing that all tires are a little different. I bet that if I had used a compressor it would have worked, but I didn't want to have to resort to that since not everyone has access to one.

    Try it without the foam first and no sealant. I'm sure it'll work for some people.

  50. #50
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    The strips of Vinyl are all cut out and pack, hopefully tomorrow I will be able to ship them, one set of them is for a Moonlander (80mm wide strip) will see how that works out..

    I will let you guys know the cost of shipping after I come back from the post office.

  51. #51
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    Front wheel ready for a tire.

  52. #52
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    Glitter. Where's the glitter?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    Front wheel ready for a tire.
    As stated before, it's imperative to ensure that there are no wrinkles in the tape that you use between the bead and the rim strip(I used Gorrilla tape for the exclusive purpose of being able to pull it extremely tight to eliminate wrinkles entirely). I promise you that the sealant will work it's way through the wrinkle(which I can see in your pic) and eventually make it larger and larger. Liquid tire sealant doesn't play well with exposed tape adhesive.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    As stated before, it's imperative to ensure that there are no wrinkles in the tape that you use between the bead and the rim strip(I used Gorrilla tape for the exclusive purpose of being able to pull it extremely tight to eliminate wrinkles entirely). I promise you that the sealant will work it's way through the wrinkle(which I can see in your pic) and eventually make it larger and larger. Liquid tire sealant doesn't play well with exposed tape adhesive.

    Thanks for the feedback, I try my hardest to avoid wrinkles but I was not able to flat them all, Maybe I need to buy some real gorilla tape and not use my fancy Military tape that is so rigid and stiff...

    I'm going to give it a try like this first, if it does not work I try following your method even closer.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    Yes the transparent Vinyl works awesome, I even got lucky with the right thickness and everything.
    Before making a claim of this sort don't you think that it should be perhaps tested and proven?

    Also, how are you sealing the ends?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Before making a claim of this sort don't you think that it should be perhaps tested and proven?
    You are right I have not try it with tires, but I least I know is not brittle, is somehow flexible and not as easy to cut as a piece of packing tape...

    I will have accurate and solid results when I get my tires on friday.
    Also, how are you sealing the ends?
    E6000 silicone glue plus mechanical help, overlap by about 2 1/2inches

  57. #57
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    Here ya go.... not tubeless yet as i couldn't wait to ride these tyres but i will attempt it in the next week or so.

    The plastic is a Table saver for probably parties going on the silver sparkles through it, its 0.4mm thick. Comes in clear too in a load of different thicknesses.

    Cheers for the idea





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  58. #58
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    Does anyone know if there is a temperature at which the tubeless method doesn't work? At what point does Stans freeze?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Does anyone know if there is a temperature at which the tubeless method doesn't work? At what point does Stans freeze?
    Stan's NT site says -30ºF, MSDS sheet says freezing point is -20ºF:

    http://www.notubes.com/literature/no..._9_17_2010.pdf

    Never ran tubeless myself so couldn't say on what temperature it would not be effective to do so.

  60. #60
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    So.....anyone come up with lighting ideas???? I need to do this to my new front wheel.....

  61. #61
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    This thread inspired me, but not enough to do the clear. I made the front of my Moonlander tubeless today. Yep, tubeless Bud on Clownshoes with a stronger schrader motorcycle tubeless valve.


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    So far I have no luck seating the tires on the rim..


    I try straps (casing is to soft), inner tube for a day, foam "step", nothing and Yes I do have a compressor and I took the valve core off..

  63. #63
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    Patineto, you mentioned the foam step. Did you build up the rim so that the tire bead has more material to catch as you are inflating? I didn't see that you did that in your picture. I was tempted to use the compressor but I wanted to see how easy it would be without one. I hope you left one side in place after compressing with a tube. I then pulled the other bead up into place, although it wasn't totally set.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    So far I have no luck seating the t.....

    I try straps (casing is to soft), inner tube for a day, foam "step", nothing and Yes I do have a compressor and I took the valve core off..
    Try using a tube to seat both sides of the bead, then break only 1 side carefully and remove tube and install valve. Set rim on bucket so it is suspended
    And face the remaining bead down so gravity helps pull it where it needs to go.strap around tire should work, not too tight, and these tires have enough material that you can carefully grab the sidewalls and pull the bead towards the rim.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    So far I have no luck seating the tires on the rim..

    I try straps (casing is to soft), inner tube for a day, foam "step", nothing and Yes I do have a compressor and I took the valve core off..
    If you do the foam step you should be able to get the bead to seat with a floor pump or even a small hand pump. Forget the compressor and the straps. If you need that then you are not doing it correctly. It's not easy to get the tire on the foam step, and I feel that it may not be on there completely.

    Did you get the tire entirely on the foam step before applying air?

    When you inflate the tire with a tube and then let all the air out are both the beads seated on the beadlock still? They should be really hard to push off.

    Go back to the beginning of the How To. Re reading sometimes helps.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    So.....anyone come up with lighting ideas???? I need to do this to my new front wheel.....
    I forgot about this. Yeah, just buy a box of these (was really looking for led lights this size) and stuff them thru the big holes in your rim so they sit between the rim strip and the rim. You can lower the pressure to get them in and out and re inflate to hold them in place. Plus you can use as many as you want. 1, 5, 10, 32. Easy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How To:  Tubeless Wheel Windows-retail-box-50-packets-sl5-starlite-fishing-glow-sticks.jpg  


  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    I forgot about this. Yeah, just buy a box of these (was really looking for led lights this size) and stuff them thru the big holes in your rim so they sit between the rim strip and the rim. You can lower the pressure to get them in and out and re inflate to hold them in place. Plus you can use as many as you want. 1, 5, 10, 32. Easy.
    Those are cool. We use to play with those as kids back in the day. (doh! do I really sound that old?)

    Was thinking an LED (link) strip would be an ideal setup. Run the LEDs along the inside of the rim having the wires feed out of one of the empty spoke holes. Then just a mini jack and small Lipo battery to power the strip. I'm waiting on the Rabbit Hole rim otherwise think I'd be trying this already.

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    By the way the vinyl proof to be really strong, I had two inner tube explosions (because I was using normal size MTB tubes) and nothing happen to the vinyl..

  69. #69
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    Compilation of tricks:

    Pull gorilla tape as tight as you can.
    Make sure the tape goes up onto inside of rim where the tire will seat against the tape.
    Heavy duty 3/8" by 3/4" sticky backed door insulation foam cut on angle to make a shelf.
    I put tape under the foam and taped over the foam as well.
    Seat the tire with a regular fat tube to max pressure at least.
    With the air out of the tube, unseat only one side of the tire and remove the tube and insert valve.
    Use a bucket or stool or something keep wheel off the ground.
    I have the beaded side of the tire down.
    Flatten the tire as you pull the loose side up onto the built up foam shelf working around the wheel.
    I keep a hand on the tire, keeping it on the foam shelf while putting a couple pumps of air into the tire.




  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Compilation of tricks:

    Pull gorilla tape as tight as you can.
    Make sure the tape goes up onto inside of rim where the tire will seat against the tape.
    Heavy duty 3/8" by 3/4" sticky backed door insulation foam cut on angle to make a shelf.
    I put tape under the foam and taped over the foam as well.
    Seat the tire with a regular fat tube to max pressure at least.
    With the air out of the tube, unseat only one side of the tire and remove the tube and insert valve.
    Use a bucket or stool or something keep wheel off the ground.
    I have the beaded side of the tire down.
    Flatten the tire as you pull the loose side up onto the built up foam shelf working around the wheel.
    I keep a hand on the tire, keeping it on the foam shelf while putting a couple pumps of air into the tire.
    If you seat one of the beads with a tube then why do you put foam on both sides? Are people not understanding why I use foam?

    Why do you put tape in the middle? Kinda defeats the purpose of the entire process. There are easier ways of doing tubeless if the goal isn't to have a clear rim strip.

  71. #71
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    Foam Step

    If you are able to get the tire sealed with a clear rim strip without the foam step then kudos to you my friend!...... I wasn't able to do it consistently, so I developed this technique(designed for clear tubeless). I feel that people may not entirely understand how I utilize it. The step isn't something that the tire bead just simply touches. You are going to want to pull the tire bead up on the rim bead and the foam foam step simultaneously so that half the the tire has the bead in the bead lock and half of the tire has the bead on the step(not simply touching it). This takes a bit of finessing. If you need a bucket, straps, compressor, gravity, or explosives then you are not utilizing the step properly.

  72. #72
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    EP, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have posted in your thread since I didn't do clear. I basically did the same process a you without clear and it worked first time out. So take it as a compliment that your instructions and pictures were helpful.

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    hey, really cool idea EP i like how simple/creative and sweet it looks. too bad you are a total ********.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    EP, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have posted in your thread since I didn't do clear. I basically did the same process a you without clear and it worked first time out. So take it as a compliment that your instructions and pictures were helpful.
    No worries dude! I'm glad your system worked for you, and you are welcome to post your pics anywhere you'd like. I'm also happy that this helped you.

    Quote Originally Posted by keith bonedragger View Post
    hey, really cool idea EP i like how simple/creative and sweet it looks.
    Thanks! I'm glad you like it!

    Quote Originally Posted by keith bonedragger View Post
    too bad you are a total ********.
    My bad.

  75. #75
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    Great thread... my rims are windowless, but this inspired me to go tubeless today. I was able to seat the tire (Husker du on rolling daryls) without the foam ramp or explosives... use gravity method and a compressor.

  76. #76
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    RWGreen, I'm new to the fat tubeless thing, but I think that it is important to be able to reseat the tire while on the trail with a hand pump or CO2 cartridges. Something to think about. With the foam step, seating the tire is fairly easy even with a hand pump.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    RWGreen, I'm new to the fat tubeless thing, but I think that it is important to be able to reseat the tire while on the trail with a hand pump or CO2 cartridges. Something to think about. With the foam step, seating the tire is fairly easy even with a hand pump.
    Typically if you had a problem with tubeless on the trail then you just throw in a tube till you get home.

  78. #78
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    Depending on the problem, I wouldn't see why you wouldn't just reseat the tire and pump it up again. A two inch gash in the sidewall would be a insert a tube situation. A burp would be a reseat and pump situation for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    A burp would be a reseat and pump situation for me.
    Why would you reseat the bead? I've burped air and sealant out the bead before and there certainly no need to reseat the bead.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Typically if you had a problem with tubeless on the trail then you just throw in a tube till you get home.
    EP, you must pride yourself in being difficult. My point was that not every problem would dictate throwing a tube in.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    EP, you must pride yourself in being difficult. My point was that not every problem would dictate throwing a tube in.
    I'm sorry that you think I'm being difficult for simply asking why you would reseat the bead which didn't make sense to me.

    Also, I agree that every problem does not dictate using a tube.... Which is why I used the word "typically." Not "always."

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    This thread hasn't been posted on in a week which seems baffling. How are the tubeless setups holding up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by upmtbyader View Post
    This thread hasn't been posted on in a week which seems baffling. How are the tubeless setups holding up?
    Mine held up great, but now that the snow has flown I'm on my winter setup till spring.

  84. #84
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    Mine are still working although I am going to redo mine today. I've ordered some 3" clear tape which I think I'm going to like better than the 2" because it will make me feel comfortable opening up more window and I'm going to go back to my extra firm foam that I used on my front wheel. I do like being able to see that the slime is moving around in the wheel as I ride. It's very cool.

    EPCycles did his on Marge Lite rims I believe and the 2" clear tape worked on those rims with the smaller windows. I did mine on Clownshoe rims which have a wider window. I would like to find some 4" clear tape.

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    I also have clownshoes, contemplating going tubeless but probably not with clear tape. EPcycles, what is your winter setup? What is the verdict on the foam, is it only needed on one side to help seat the bead or is it best to use on both sides as sort of a beadlock or safety precaution so as not to knock the tire off the bead?

  86. #86
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    If going tubeless, why not clear? Just stretch as many layers of tape as you would like. It's pretty tough a you add layers.
    I think the foam on both sides is a must. Otherwise you always have to remember which side has the tape as well a if you have an issue on the trail it will be easier with foam on both sides. I also thinks it helps to use extra firm foam like found at true value.

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    I suppose the clear would be pretty cool. What tires are you running? Any durability issues?

  88. #88
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    What durability issues?
    I'm using bud and Lou. I'm going to get another set of wheels so I can set up some Larry's on one set and the bud/Lou on the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by upmtbyader View Post
    I also have clownshoes, contemplating going tubeless but probably not with clear tape. EPcycles, what is your winter setup? What is the verdict on the foam, is it only needed on one side to help seat the bead or is it best to use on both sides as sort of a beadlock or safety precaution so as not to knock the tire off the bead?
    My winter setup is a set of double wall 80s and BFLs that I got from Mike C.

    If you are going tubeless and don't care if its clear then do the split tube setup. Easy, fast, cheap, and reliable.

    If you want clear, then foam is an "option." It only aids in seating the bead. It does not help keep it on once its seated. If you want to go thru the trouble of putting it on both sides then go for it. It's not required.

  90. #90
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    I've done it with no foam, foam on just one side, and foam on both sides. It is nice to have foam, and it is nice to have it on both sides. I think it does help the tire stay seated and sealed, with and without air.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I've done it with no foam, foam on just one side, and foam on both sides. It is nice to have foam, and it is nice to have it on both sides. I think it does help the tire stay seated and sealed, with and without air.
    The foam does nothing to hold the tire bead on the rim. The difference that you may be noticing is the fact that you add extra layers of thick tape to the rim bead which makes the tire fit tighter. Coincidentally this also causes excessive stress on the tire bead. Ever have one of those break? I have, and I suggest that you be a little careful.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I'm new to the fat tubeless thing
    This is your first fat tubeless setup, correct? Mounting and dismounting a few times with a few rides doesn't in my opinion give one ground for dishing out advise. I do, on the other hand, appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to try something new.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I think that it is important to be able to reseat the tire while on the trail with a hand pump or CO2 cartridges

    Also be sure to let me know when this happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I think the foam on both sides is a must. Otherwise you always have to remember which side has the tape
    Um, all I have to say is clear rim strip. Look thru it to see where the foam is.

  92. #92
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    EP, you provide an interesting read for sure. I'm trying to decide how much to engage you but your opinion doesn't gospel make.

    I think the foam, if done right, does help keep the tire seated well and keeps the setup from "burping". Also, I just set mine up without seating the tire first with a tube and had no problems without an air compressor. That was one of my goals. It's not much more time involved to put foam on both sides so why not?

    I'm not having to pry the tire into place so I also disagree with it adding too much pressure to the bead of the tire.

    Yes, it is my first fatbike tubeless setup. What's your point? I was probably riding bikes before you were born. And about my few rides, I ride more in a week than many avid bikers do in a month. I rode over 70 miles yesterday, and you? I'd ask about today, but I'm not done riding yet. I'll be back out after I change my clear tubeless setup on my front wheel to wider clear tape.

    If you'd like, we can compare setups and abilities at the Tuscobia Winter Ultra in a little over a month.
    Last edited by alphazz; 11-27-2012 at 08:04 PM.

  93. #93
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    I got a pissing match going here, Fight nice, haha. I rode thousands of miles on my 907 last year and got a kick out of it when someone argued with me about big fat larrys rubbing on them even when i had rolling darryls with bfls. Also, didnt mean to jack your thread EP the clear rim tape is sweet just trying to feel out the best not necessarily the best looking option to go tubeless so wouldnt gorilla tape over the surly rim strip work well too and with or without the weather stripping?

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    your opinion doesn't gospel make.
    Good point. Your lack of fat tire experience.....

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I think the foam, if done right, does help keep the tire seated well and keeps the setup from "burping".
    Have you actually had problems with your fat tubeless "burping?"

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I'm not having to pry the tire into place so I also disagree with it adding too much pressure to the bead of the tire.
    Pumping up the tire pushes the tire onto the actual bead. If you put more tape on the bead would it increase the pressure on the tire bead? And how much exactly does it increase?

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Yes, it is my first fatbike tubeless setup. What's your point?
    Simply that you don't have the fat tubeless experience to give sound and scientific fat tubeless advise. You have contributed mostly speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I was probably riding bikes before you were born. And about my few rides, I ride more in a week than many avid bikers do in a month. I rode over 70 miles yesterday, and you?
    So logging lots of miles makes you an expert at fat tire tubeless? Good to know.

    On a side note, that's super! I wish I had time to put in those kind of miles with the fat bike on a week day.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    If you'd like, we can compare setups and abilities at the Tuscobia Winter Ultra in a little over a month.
    If you really feel the need to measure you "manhood" then be my guest. Your maturity is obviously not proportionate to your age if in fact you are as old as you imply.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by upmtbyader View Post
    wouldnt gorilla tape over the surly rim strip work well too and with or without the weather stripping?
    Absolutely.

  96. #96
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    This thread was informative

  97. #97
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    Logging lots of miles tests the tubeless setup more than taking pictures of it in your house. I've seen "burping". Does it have to happen to me? I don't have much tape actually on the bead but I do have more tape covering the cutouts which I and others on here see as a weak point with only two layers of packing tape.

    What is experience if it isn't time? Yes, logging lots of miles with my tubeless setup does indeed equal experience and expertise because clearly it works outside of the living room.

    I haven't heard about the vast knowledge you have and why your opinion on here is more valid than the opinions of anyone else.

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    well, regardless of anything, thanks for posting photos and how-tos. i'll take away what i want, but its good to see what works. and other than the fun-fur wookie-lander, this is my favourite rim-hole-job. the stripper cards are a solid third.

  99. #99
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    Well Alphazz, I spent over a year designing, protyping, and yes testing my clear setup. It didn't spend its entire life in my house like you said. I also was nice enough to make a nice little How To for those who were interested. I spent countless hours on this, so thank you and you are welcome. I'll think twice before sharing next time.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Well Alphazz, I spent over a year designing, protyping, and yes testing my clear setup. It didn't spend its entire life in my house like you said. I also was nice enough to make a nice little How To for those who were interested. I spent countless hours on this, so thank you and you are welcome. I'll think twice before sharing next time.
    I hope I speak for the majority here EP; THANKS FOR POSTING


    My $.02
    Good, Bad or otherwise it is an interesting discussion, and brings up good points to think about as some of us attempt successfully or not to go tubeless. I'm sure your how-to has spurred many others to try this with varying levels of success.

    Just remember that a couple of bicycle mechanics had similar types of discussions with like minded individuals that led to the first successful flight. Without the sharing of thoughts and ideas they may have never succeeded.



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