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  1. #51
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    Front wheel ready for a tire.

  2. #52
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    Glitter. Where's the glitter?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    Front wheel ready for a tire.
    As stated before, it's imperative to ensure that there are no wrinkles in the tape that you use between the bead and the rim strip(I used Gorrilla tape for the exclusive purpose of being able to pull it extremely tight to eliminate wrinkles entirely). I promise you that the sealant will work it's way through the wrinkle(which I can see in your pic) and eventually make it larger and larger. Liquid tire sealant doesn't play well with exposed tape adhesive.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    As stated before, it's imperative to ensure that there are no wrinkles in the tape that you use between the bead and the rim strip(I used Gorrilla tape for the exclusive purpose of being able to pull it extremely tight to eliminate wrinkles entirely). I promise you that the sealant will work it's way through the wrinkle(which I can see in your pic) and eventually make it larger and larger. Liquid tire sealant doesn't play well with exposed tape adhesive.

    Thanks for the feedback, I try my hardest to avoid wrinkles but I was not able to flat them all, Maybe I need to buy some real gorilla tape and not use my fancy Military tape that is so rigid and stiff...

    I'm going to give it a try like this first, if it does not work I try following your method even closer.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    Yes the transparent Vinyl works awesome, I even got lucky with the right thickness and everything.
    Before making a claim of this sort don't you think that it should be perhaps tested and proven?

    Also, how are you sealing the ends?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Before making a claim of this sort don't you think that it should be perhaps tested and proven?
    You are right I have not try it with tires, but I least I know is not brittle, is somehow flexible and not as easy to cut as a piece of packing tape...

    I will have accurate and solid results when I get my tires on friday.
    Also, how are you sealing the ends?
    E6000 silicone glue plus mechanical help, overlap by about 2 1/2inches

  7. #57
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    Here ya go.... not tubeless yet as i couldn't wait to ride these tyres but i will attempt it in the next week or so.

    The plastic is a Table saver for probably parties going on the silver sparkles through it, its 0.4mm thick. Comes in clear too in a load of different thicknesses.

    Cheers for the idea





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  8. #58
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    Does anyone know if there is a temperature at which the tubeless method doesn't work? At what point does Stans freeze?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Does anyone know if there is a temperature at which the tubeless method doesn't work? At what point does Stans freeze?
    Stan's NT site says -30ļF, MSDS sheet says freezing point is -20ļF:

    http://www.notubes.com/literature/no..._9_17_2010.pdf

    Never ran tubeless myself so couldn't say on what temperature it would not be effective to do so.

  10. #60
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    So.....anyone come up with lighting ideas???? I need to do this to my new front wheel.....

  11. #61
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    This thread inspired me, but not enough to do the clear. I made the front of my Moonlander tubeless today. Yep, tubeless Bud on Clownshoes with a stronger schrader motorcycle tubeless valve.


  12. #62
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    So far I have no luck seating the tires on the rim..


    I try straps (casing is to soft), inner tube for a day, foam "step", nothing and Yes I do have a compressor and I took the valve core off..

  13. #63
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    Patineto, you mentioned the foam step. Did you build up the rim so that the tire bead has more material to catch as you are inflating? I didn't see that you did that in your picture. I was tempted to use the compressor but I wanted to see how easy it would be without one. I hope you left one side in place after compressing with a tube. I then pulled the other bead up into place, although it wasn't totally set.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    So far I have no luck seating the t.....

    I try straps (casing is to soft), inner tube for a day, foam "step", nothing and Yes I do have a compressor and I took the valve core off..
    Try using a tube to seat both sides of the bead, then break only 1 side carefully and remove tube and install valve. Set rim on bucket so it is suspended
    And face the remaining bead down so gravity helps pull it where it needs to go.strap around tire should work, not too tight, and these tires have enough material that you can carefully grab the sidewalls and pull the bead towards the rim.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    So far I have no luck seating the tires on the rim..

    I try straps (casing is to soft), inner tube for a day, foam "step", nothing and Yes I do have a compressor and I took the valve core off..
    If you do the foam step you should be able to get the bead to seat with a floor pump or even a small hand pump. Forget the compressor and the straps. If you need that then you are not doing it correctly. It's not easy to get the tire on the foam step, and I feel that it may not be on there completely.

    Did you get the tire entirely on the foam step before applying air?

    When you inflate the tire with a tube and then let all the air out are both the beads seated on the beadlock still? They should be really hard to push off.

    Go back to the beginning of the How To. Re reading sometimes helps.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    So.....anyone come up with lighting ideas???? I need to do this to my new front wheel.....
    I forgot about this. Yeah, just buy a box of these (was really looking for led lights this size) and stuff them thru the big holes in your rim so they sit between the rim strip and the rim. You can lower the pressure to get them in and out and re inflate to hold them in place. Plus you can use as many as you want. 1, 5, 10, 32. Easy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How To:  Tubeless Wheel Windows-retail-box-50-packets-sl5-starlite-fishing-glow-sticks.jpg  


  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    I forgot about this. Yeah, just buy a box of these (was really looking for led lights this size) and stuff them thru the big holes in your rim so they sit between the rim strip and the rim. You can lower the pressure to get them in and out and re inflate to hold them in place. Plus you can use as many as you want. 1, 5, 10, 32. Easy.
    Those are cool. We use to play with those as kids back in the day. (doh! do I really sound that old?)

    Was thinking an LED (link) strip would be an ideal setup. Run the LEDs along the inside of the rim having the wires feed out of one of the empty spoke holes. Then just a mini jack and small Lipo battery to power the strip. I'm waiting on the Rabbit Hole rim otherwise think I'd be trying this already.

  18. #68
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    By the way the vinyl proof to be really strong, I had two inner tube explosions (because I was using normal size MTB tubes) and nothing happen to the vinyl..

  19. #69
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    Compilation of tricks:

    Pull gorilla tape as tight as you can.
    Make sure the tape goes up onto inside of rim where the tire will seat against the tape.
    Heavy duty 3/8" by 3/4" sticky backed door insulation foam cut on angle to make a shelf.
    I put tape under the foam and taped over the foam as well.
    Seat the tire with a regular fat tube to max pressure at least.
    With the air out of the tube, unseat only one side of the tire and remove the tube and insert valve.
    Use a bucket or stool or something keep wheel off the ground.
    I have the beaded side of the tire down.
    Flatten the tire as you pull the loose side up onto the built up foam shelf working around the wheel.
    I keep a hand on the tire, keeping it on the foam shelf while putting a couple pumps of air into the tire.




  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Compilation of tricks:

    Pull gorilla tape as tight as you can.
    Make sure the tape goes up onto inside of rim where the tire will seat against the tape.
    Heavy duty 3/8" by 3/4" sticky backed door insulation foam cut on angle to make a shelf.
    I put tape under the foam and taped over the foam as well.
    Seat the tire with a regular fat tube to max pressure at least.
    With the air out of the tube, unseat only one side of the tire and remove the tube and insert valve.
    Use a bucket or stool or something keep wheel off the ground.
    I have the beaded side of the tire down.
    Flatten the tire as you pull the loose side up onto the built up foam shelf working around the wheel.
    I keep a hand on the tire, keeping it on the foam shelf while putting a couple pumps of air into the tire.
    If you seat one of the beads with a tube then why do you put foam on both sides? Are people not understanding why I use foam?

    Why do you put tape in the middle? Kinda defeats the purpose of the entire process. There are easier ways of doing tubeless if the goal isn't to have a clear rim strip.

  21. #71
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    Foam Step

    If you are able to get the tire sealed with a clear rim strip without the foam step then kudos to you my friend!...... I wasn't able to do it consistently, so I developed this technique(designed for clear tubeless). I feel that people may not entirely understand how I utilize it. The step isn't something that the tire bead just simply touches. You are going to want to pull the tire bead up on the rim bead and the foam foam step simultaneously so that half the the tire has the bead in the bead lock and half of the tire has the bead on the step(not simply touching it). This takes a bit of finessing. If you need a bucket, straps, compressor, gravity, or explosives then you are not utilizing the step properly.

  22. #72
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    EP, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have posted in your thread since I didn't do clear. I basically did the same process a you without clear and it worked first time out. So take it as a compliment that your instructions and pictures were helpful.

  23. #73
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    hey, really cool idea EP i like how simple/creative and sweet it looks. too bad you are a total ********.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    EP, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have posted in your thread since I didn't do clear. I basically did the same process a you without clear and it worked first time out. So take it as a compliment that your instructions and pictures were helpful.
    No worries dude! I'm glad your system worked for you, and you are welcome to post your pics anywhere you'd like. I'm also happy that this helped you.

    Quote Originally Posted by keith bonedragger View Post
    hey, really cool idea EP i like how simple/creative and sweet it looks.
    Thanks! I'm glad you like it!

    Quote Originally Posted by keith bonedragger View Post
    too bad you are a total ********.
    My bad.

  25. #75
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    Great thread... my rims are windowless, but this inspired me to go tubeless today. I was able to seat the tire (Husker du on rolling daryls) without the foam ramp or explosives... use gravity method and a compressor.

  26. #76
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    RWGreen, I'm new to the fat tubeless thing, but I think that it is important to be able to reseat the tire while on the trail with a hand pump or CO2 cartridges. Something to think about. With the foam step, seating the tire is fairly easy even with a hand pump.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    RWGreen, I'm new to the fat tubeless thing, but I think that it is important to be able to reseat the tire while on the trail with a hand pump or CO2 cartridges. Something to think about. With the foam step, seating the tire is fairly easy even with a hand pump.
    Typically if you had a problem with tubeless on the trail then you just throw in a tube till you get home.

  28. #78
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    Depending on the problem, I wouldn't see why you wouldn't just reseat the tire and pump it up again. A two inch gash in the sidewall would be a insert a tube situation. A burp would be a reseat and pump situation for me.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    A burp would be a reseat and pump situation for me.
    Why would you reseat the bead? I've burped air and sealant out the bead before and there certainly no need to reseat the bead.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Typically if you had a problem with tubeless on the trail then you just throw in a tube till you get home.
    EP, you must pride yourself in being difficult. My point was that not every problem would dictate throwing a tube in.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    EP, you must pride yourself in being difficult. My point was that not every problem would dictate throwing a tube in.
    I'm sorry that you think I'm being difficult for simply asking why you would reseat the bead which didn't make sense to me.

    Also, I agree that every problem does not dictate using a tube.... Which is why I used the word "typically." Not "always."

  32. #82
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    This thread hasn't been posted on in a week which seems baffling. How are the tubeless setups holding up?

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by upmtbyader View Post
    This thread hasn't been posted on in a week which seems baffling. How are the tubeless setups holding up?
    Mine held up great, but now that the snow has flown I'm on my winter setup till spring.

  34. #84
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    Mine are still working although I am going to redo mine today. I've ordered some 3" clear tape which I think I'm going to like better than the 2" because it will make me feel comfortable opening up more window and I'm going to go back to my extra firm foam that I used on my front wheel. I do like being able to see that the slime is moving around in the wheel as I ride. It's very cool.

    EPCycles did his on Marge Lite rims I believe and the 2" clear tape worked on those rims with the smaller windows. I did mine on Clownshoe rims which have a wider window. I would like to find some 4" clear tape.

  35. #85
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    I also have clownshoes, contemplating going tubeless but probably not with clear tape. EPcycles, what is your winter setup? What is the verdict on the foam, is it only needed on one side to help seat the bead or is it best to use on both sides as sort of a beadlock or safety precaution so as not to knock the tire off the bead?

  36. #86
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    If going tubeless, why not clear? Just stretch as many layers of tape as you would like. It's pretty tough a you add layers.
    I think the foam on both sides is a must. Otherwise you always have to remember which side has the tape as well a if you have an issue on the trail it will be easier with foam on both sides. I also thinks it helps to use extra firm foam like found at true value.

  37. #87
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    I suppose the clear would be pretty cool. What tires are you running? Any durability issues?

  38. #88
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    What durability issues?
    I'm using bud and Lou. I'm going to get another set of wheels so I can set up some Larry's on one set and the bud/Lou on the other.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by upmtbyader View Post
    I also have clownshoes, contemplating going tubeless but probably not with clear tape. EPcycles, what is your winter setup? What is the verdict on the foam, is it only needed on one side to help seat the bead or is it best to use on both sides as sort of a beadlock or safety precaution so as not to knock the tire off the bead?
    My winter setup is a set of double wall 80s and BFLs that I got from Mike C.

    If you are going tubeless and don't care if its clear then do the split tube setup. Easy, fast, cheap, and reliable.

    If you want clear, then foam is an "option." It only aids in seating the bead. It does not help keep it on once its seated. If you want to go thru the trouble of putting it on both sides then go for it. It's not required.

  40. #90
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    I've done it with no foam, foam on just one side, and foam on both sides. It is nice to have foam, and it is nice to have it on both sides. I think it does help the tire stay seated and sealed, with and without air.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I've done it with no foam, foam on just one side, and foam on both sides. It is nice to have foam, and it is nice to have it on both sides. I think it does help the tire stay seated and sealed, with and without air.
    The foam does nothing to hold the tire bead on the rim. The difference that you may be noticing is the fact that you add extra layers of thick tape to the rim bead which makes the tire fit tighter. Coincidentally this also causes excessive stress on the tire bead. Ever have one of those break? I have, and I suggest that you be a little careful.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I'm new to the fat tubeless thing
    This is your first fat tubeless setup, correct? Mounting and dismounting a few times with a few rides doesn't in my opinion give one ground for dishing out advise. I do, on the other hand, appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to try something new.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I think that it is important to be able to reseat the tire while on the trail with a hand pump or CO2 cartridges

    Also be sure to let me know when this happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I think the foam on both sides is a must. Otherwise you always have to remember which side has the tape
    Um, all I have to say is clear rim strip. Look thru it to see where the foam is.

  42. #92
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    EP, you provide an interesting read for sure. I'm trying to decide how much to engage you but your opinion doesn't gospel make.

    I think the foam, if done right, does help keep the tire seated well and keeps the setup from "burping". Also, I just set mine up without seating the tire first with a tube and had no problems without an air compressor. That was one of my goals. It's not much more time involved to put foam on both sides so why not?

    I'm not having to pry the tire into place so I also disagree with it adding too much pressure to the bead of the tire.

    Yes, it is my first fatbike tubeless setup. What's your point? I was probably riding bikes before you were born. And about my few rides, I ride more in a week than many avid bikers do in a month. I rode over 70 miles yesterday, and you? I'd ask about today, but I'm not done riding yet. I'll be back out after I change my clear tubeless setup on my front wheel to wider clear tape.

    If you'd like, we can compare setups and abilities at the Tuscobia Winter Ultra in a little over a month.
    Last edited by alphazz; 11-27-2012 at 08:04 PM.

  43. #93
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    I got a pissing match going here, Fight nice, haha. I rode thousands of miles on my 907 last year and got a kick out of it when someone argued with me about big fat larrys rubbing on them even when i had rolling darryls with bfls. Also, didnt mean to jack your thread EP the clear rim tape is sweet just trying to feel out the best not necessarily the best looking option to go tubeless so wouldnt gorilla tape over the surly rim strip work well too and with or without the weather stripping?

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    your opinion doesn't gospel make.
    Good point. Your lack of fat tire experience.....

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I think the foam, if done right, does help keep the tire seated well and keeps the setup from "burping".
    Have you actually had problems with your fat tubeless "burping?"

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I'm not having to pry the tire into place so I also disagree with it adding too much pressure to the bead of the tire.
    Pumping up the tire pushes the tire onto the actual bead. If you put more tape on the bead would it increase the pressure on the tire bead? And how much exactly does it increase?

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Yes, it is my first fatbike tubeless setup. What's your point?
    Simply that you don't have the fat tubeless experience to give sound and scientific fat tubeless advise. You have contributed mostly speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I was probably riding bikes before you were born. And about my few rides, I ride more in a week than many avid bikers do in a month. I rode over 70 miles yesterday, and you?
    So logging lots of miles makes you an expert at fat tire tubeless? Good to know.

    On a side note, that's super! I wish I had time to put in those kind of miles with the fat bike on a week day.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    If you'd like, we can compare setups and abilities at the Tuscobia Winter Ultra in a little over a month.
    If you really feel the need to measure you "manhood" then be my guest. Your maturity is obviously not proportionate to your age if in fact you are as old as you imply.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by upmtbyader View Post
    wouldnt gorilla tape over the surly rim strip work well too and with or without the weather stripping?
    Absolutely.

  46. #96
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    This thread was informative

  47. #97
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    Logging lots of miles tests the tubeless setup more than taking pictures of it in your house. I've seen "burping". Does it have to happen to me? I don't have much tape actually on the bead but I do have more tape covering the cutouts which I and others on here see as a weak point with only two layers of packing tape.

    What is experience if it isn't time? Yes, logging lots of miles with my tubeless setup does indeed equal experience and expertise because clearly it works outside of the living room.

    I haven't heard about the vast knowledge you have and why your opinion on here is more valid than the opinions of anyone else.

  48. #98
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    well, regardless of anything, thanks for posting photos and how-tos. i'll take away what i want, but its good to see what works. and other than the fun-fur wookie-lander, this is my favourite rim-hole-job. the stripper cards are a solid third.

  49. #99
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    Well Alphazz, I spent over a year designing, protyping, and yes testing my clear setup. It didn't spend its entire life in my house like you said. I also was nice enough to make a nice little How To for those who were interested. I spent countless hours on this, so thank you and you are welcome. I'll think twice before sharing next time.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPcycles View Post
    Well Alphazz, I spent over a year designing, protyping, and yes testing my clear setup. It didn't spend its entire life in my house like you said. I also was nice enough to make a nice little How To for those who were interested. I spent countless hours on this, so thank you and you are welcome. I'll think twice before sharing next time.
    I hope I speak for the majority here EP; THANKS FOR POSTING


    My $.02
    Good, Bad or otherwise it is an interesting discussion, and brings up good points to think about as some of us attempt successfully or not to go tubeless. I'm sure your how-to has spurred many others to try this with varying levels of success.

    Just remember that a couple of bicycle mechanics had similar types of discussions with like minded individuals that led to the first successful flight. Without the sharing of thoughts and ideas they may have never succeeded.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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