Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 156
  1. #51
    Chronic Underachiever
    Reputation: MauricioB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by onepivot View Post
    This is all well & good, but answer to my original question seems elusive: does anyone have any good info on whether or not any of the big brands are working on a fat bike design? I thought someone might have some insider info.
    Trek had two fat concept bikes (one with a built-in hatchet rack, complete with hatchet) on display at Trekworld 2011. Haven't heard much since.

    Except...someone I know works in the Trek skunkworks and claims that he came up with something similar to the Krampus about 3 years ago. He said that upon seeing the prototype unveiled at a meeting, the product managers looked at him as if he were from Mars.

  2. #52
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,730
    Quote Originally Posted by onepivot View Post
    This is all well & good, but answer to my original question seems elusive: does anyone have any good info on whether or not any of the big brands are working on a fat bike design? I thought someone might have some insider info.
    Judging by current bike reviews/hype - they are all busy mining the "27.5/650b" thing. That still looks like a "normal" bike, one that conventional wisdom says is acceptable. Fatbikes are still outside that.

    I note that the 100mm BB standard came out of DH/FR, so there is a bigger market for cranksets than just fatbikes. Hubs, rims, tires? Fat only.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  3. #53
    Location: SouthPole of MN
    Reputation: duggus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,378
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Judging by current bike reviews/hype - they are all busy mining the "27.5/650b" thing. That still looks like a "normal" bike, one that conventional wisdom says is acceptable. Fatbikes are still outside that.
    Agreed. I think we would all love things a little cheaper... but still, we do have a pretty good selection of things considering how rare these beasts are.

    I honestly just don't see the big guys getting into it with how small the market & desire is for fat bikes... don't forget either how some people just do not like the snow and/or cold! I know they are great for other things, but they are still pushed for snow use

    To all of us that are constantly following fat bikes... we of course know how awesome and fun they are, but to your average cyclist they are still kind of a freak of nature bike. We are a bunch of freaks... and don't you forget that

  4. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bethany1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    659
    In some ways it would be great to get SRAM and Shimano in for fat-bike specific parts (forgive me if they already are) and some of the big name companies for suspension forks. Components are where the money is at.

    I can't see big names like Trek join in just yet for a complete bike. Was looking in my LBS when I took my Muk in and all the new bikes look pretty boring and basic. Nothing even caught my interest.

  5. #55
    Living the thug life.
    Reputation: Logantri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    731
    My 2 cents of knowledge.

    Trek did not jump on board the 29er movement, they pushed it through when no big player would touch them. They pushed through the first real tires and shocks to make a real 29er mountain bike.

    The QBP brands are run separate, but they all answer to the same boss, and if you think they don't talk to each other than you are foolish. The big reason fatbikes are a popular as they are right now is because QBP was the biggest player to run with'em. They have HUGE distribution. You probably would not be riding a fat bike right now if they did not pick up the ball and run with it.

    Surly has given credit to Evingson in their Pugsley designs. He actually helped them design the first one from what I was told by a Surly man.

    No, QBP did not invent the market, they made it something from nearly nothing. Just like Trek/Fisher did with 29'ers.

    Oh, and it has been like 10 years since Trek bought companies that were poorly run. It is no time to get off their backs about acquiring other companies.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

    My blog.

  6. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation: buckfiddious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Well, QBP is also a "local" company for those in Minnesota.
    You sort of mashed the Salsa and Surly brands together. Quality did buy Salsa years ago, I do not remember it having anything to do with a stem recall (those happened more recently), but that Ross S wanted to move on.
    Surly was created by QBP IIRC. It is run by a (small) bunch of goofy Twin City "hipsters". You you have ever met the staff of either brand you know they are very different and it is not an act.
    Yeah, a group of goofy twin city hipsters who just happen to have the resources of an enormous bike parts distributor sitting behind them. Good for them, and for us, that gets us some very cool bikes, but that massive corporate backing and distribution network is what makes their stuff available, not the cool hipster vibe and meat flavored website.

    What I'm saying is, having been out to trek many times, there's probably a lot less difference between the two companies than we'd like to believe. Before the big consolidation, there was a small team in charge of each brand. Small, as in maybe 3 or 4 people for Klein and LeMond. All of them passionate riders who actually cared about the bikes. I've met them. They too, were different and it wasn't an act. No real difference from Surly.

  7. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeG View Post
    Per X9 Fat Bike Crankset There will be X-9 and X-5 2x fatbike cranksets. More options = a good thing IMO!
    well, I think this is a good sign it is happening soon, but all I have heard is the respons I got when I asked the same question, which was "Specialized sales rep says one is in the works."
    I welcome it, since it probably means cheaper tires and hopefully better rims(tubeless ready).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How Long Before The Big Boys Join The Fray?-picture4_zps42d8e7b0.jpg  


  8. #58
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,244
    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Yeah, a group of goofy twin city hipsters who just happen to have the resources of an enormous bike parts distributor sitting behind them. Good for them, and for us, that gets us some very cool bikes, but that massive corporate backing and distribution network is what makes their stuff available, not the cool hipster vibe and meat flavored website.

    What I'm saying is, having been out to trek many times, there's probably a lot less difference between the two companies than we'd like to believe. Before the big consolidation, there was a small team in charge of each brand. Small, as in maybe 3 or 4 people for Klein and LeMond. All of them passionate riders who actually cared about the bikes. I've met them. They too, were different and it wasn't an act. No real difference from Surly.
    Except that Surly is still a separate brand with distinctly different products than Salsa (and All City, Civia, Foundry...)

    The point being, despite being part of a large corporation, Q's brands reflect the passions of the team members. It is not simply marketing hype. It is great that Steve Flagg lets them follow their dreams.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  9. #59
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,867
    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    No real difference from Surly.
    Respectfully, I'd beg to differ. While their may have been small teams, who loved the brand they worked for, the higher ups were solely profit and brand minded. Once proven their technologies or ideas were to perform, the brand's were killed so as to streamline profitability.

    QBP bought Salsa as a struggling company with a venerable history, and saved the brand name. Salsa still makes bikes. Yes, long way from where they started (sadly. the Handjob is no more) but it's still around. Or, they start their own brands, Surly, 45 North etc. They have the cojones to go it without some pioneers name on their down tube.

    I'd be all over them if they say, bought FatBack or 9Zero7, slapped names on their frame designs for two years, then dropped the name like a bad habit and called it something else.

    I don't know enough about the subtle subterfuge of QBP vs the Alaskan old guard, so I can't speak to that, but do know they certainly seem to have gotten a boost from Q's involvement in the niche, and hope they at least enjoy selling out of everything they make....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  10. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    Surly has always been first at innovating. They gave you 100mm wide wheels and now almost 5" tires and lots of other firsts. Salsa brought in 170 hubs. All QBP companies. So lets show some respect.
    Surly freely admits that they took ideas for the Pugsley from the Alaskan bikes that were around- Wildfire, Evingston, ect. Vicious also offered a bike before Surly got in the game.

    The Endomorph tire is basically an updated version of Ray Molina's original 3.5" sand tires, which were made by Tornel in Mexico.

    100mm rims were made by both Choppers US and 907 before the Clown Shoe came out, and were in use on quite a few bikes..

    Fatback was doing 170 hubs before Salsa. Wildfire had gone to 160 mm symmetrical rear ends long before Salsa was in the game as well.

  11. #61
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,867
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    Surly freely admits that they took ideas for the Pugsley from the Alaskan bikes that were around- Wildfire, Evingston, ect. Vicious also offered a bike before Surly got in the game.

    The Endomorph tire is basically an updated version of Ray Molina's original 3.5" sand tires, which were made by Tornel in Mexico.

    100mm rims were made by both Choppers US and 907 before the Clown Shoe came out, and were in use on quite a few bikes..

    Fatback was doing 170 hubs before Salsa. Wildfire had gone to 160 mm symmetrical rear ends long before Salsa was in the game as well.
    All true.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  12. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MartinS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,445
    As a Canuck, I'm a bit embarrassed that one of the Canadian bike companies aren't building a fat bike yet - not like we are short of snow or anything. I'd love to see a fatbike based on Banshee's Paradox 29er geometry, or something from RM, Kona or Devinci...
    I think that the more companies get into it the better, more options, more development of parts and hopefully cheaper prices!

  13. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: buckfiddious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Respectfully, I'd beg to differ. While their may have been small teams, who loved the brand they worked for, the higher ups were solely profit and brand minded. Once proven their technologies or ideas were to perform, the brand's were killed so as to streamline profitability.

    QBP bought Salsa as a struggling company with a venerable history, and saved the brand name. Salsa still makes bikes. Yes, long way from where they started (sadly. the Handjob is no more) but it's still around. Or, they start their own brands, Surly, 45 North etc. They have the cojones to go it without some pioneers name on their down tube.

    I'd be all over them if they say, bought FatBack or 9Zero7, slapped names on their frame designs for two years, then dropped the name like a bad habit and called it something else.

    I don't know enough about the subtle subterfuge of QBP vs the Alaskan old guard, so I can't speak to that, but do know they certainly seem to have gotten a boost from Q's involvement in the niche, and hope they at least enjoy selling out of everything they make....
    Well, you are dead wrong about trek, but, I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

    But... higher ups who were only interested in profit? Are you serious? Because surly is not interested in making a profit? because QBP hasn't essentially cornered the market on an up and coming bike style? or are they just doing that out of the goodness of their hearts?

    Every company is interested in making a profit. Even surly. And I can bet behind every surly product is a spreadsheet that's designed to find the sweet spot between production costs, distribution costs and what they can charge. Which is why we all line up to pay $150 for tires.

  14. #64
    oh crap...
    Reputation: farmerfrederico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    536
    Great thread!
    Grow some food for yourself.

  15. #65
    Down South Yooper
    Reputation: Plum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post

    QBP bought Salsa as a struggling company with a venerable history, and saved the brand name. Salsa still makes bikes. Yes, long way from where they started (sadly. the Handjob is no more) but it's still around. Or, they start their own brands, Surly, 45 North etc. They have the cojones to go it without some pioneers name on their down tube.
    ...
    Think that you're mixing Ibis and Salsa a little. Ibis (AFAIK) is also a different beast then they were BITD, when Scot Nicol was THE boss. As I understand it, he is still A boss, among other bosses. Not affiliated with QBP as I know.

    Just a minor quibble, I'm sure you know the story better than I. I still have a hand job opener on my keys, although it kinda sucks as an opener.

    As for the whole big industry fat bikers, appropriating designs, ideas, etc, is there anything REALLY new in the bike world? The 3.8's were new, the 4.8's are new, everything else from the hubs to rims to bb spacings were existing products (not to the degree that they are now, granted) in other markets, right? I can completely understand feeling put out by a mass production frame that steps on the small guys toes WRT spacings or offsets, but it's the nature of good ideas to take hold and propagate, no?

    Plum
    This post is in 3B, three beers and it looks good eh!

  16. #66
    HIKE!
    Reputation: sparrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,598
    I'd bet on Kona being the next "big" brand in the fat bike market. And by "big" you can read more on that above. QBP as a whole is big as Kona. Salsa or Surly are not as big as Kona, but their parent company has gotta be on par. But add up Kona, Salsa, Surly AND all of QBP and you still aren't as big as Trek (or Specialized, or Giant....) are! And there is no value judgement to that. It's just reality, things evolve, folks jump on board, our selection and pricing gets better.

  17. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: damnitman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,288
    A buddy of mine had a HT Kona Somethingorother that had Snowcats (44 mm) and 2.something tires...that bike was the most fun bike I've ever ridden. I have no doubt Kona would make one h3ll of a fatbike.
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  18. #68
    Fat & Single
    Reputation: ozzybmx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,922
    Im excited about others getting on the band wagon
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
    Dirty Disco CX

  19. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,914
    Quote Originally Posted by Plum View Post
    Think that you're mixing Ibis and Salsa a little. Ibis (AFAIK) is also a different beast then they were BITD, when Scot Nicol was THE boss. As I understand it, he is still A boss, among other bosses. Not affiliated with QBP as I know.

    Just a minor quibble, I'm sure you know the story better than I. I still have a hand job opener on my keys, although it kinda sucks as an opener.

    Plum
    I was going to point out this same thing, but you beat me to it! I have one of those hand job openers on my key chain as well, and completely agree that it sucks as an opener, but looks supercool

    Nothing else to add, carry on!

  20. #70
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,867
    Quote Originally Posted by Plum View Post
    Think that you're mixing Ibis and Salsa a little.
    Oops, good catch, you are absolutely correct.

    As for the rest, yes, and no. Some stuff is new, and generally for the betterment of the whole. Wider rear ends, fatter tires etc.

    I've seen how the big boys play though, and it's always some marketing gimmick, some tweak, that makes everyone else's stuff not play well with theirs, and of course, you as an end consumer won't be able to buy it over the counter, assuming it would even fit your bike in the first place. Try to buy a Fox Gary Fisher/now Trek, G2 fork from Fox example.

    Whether it's a proprietary tire and rim bead set up, rear end spacing that is in between or just beyond the current standards, something. So you wouldn't be able to say, pick up a frame from the big S and build it, unless you used their parts, thus sucking you into their realm even more.

    The fatbike market to date, is independent, and inclusive. Should the big boys come to the party, rest assured, for their product it won't be, and there will be no reason beyond pushing consumers into their "concept store" mentality, but they won't do anything, any better, for said exclusivity.......
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  21. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: buckfiddious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Oops, good catch, you are absolutely correct.

    As for the rest, yes, and no. Some stuff is new, and generally for the betterment of the whole. Wider rear ends, fatter tires etc.

    I've seen how the big boys play though, and it's always some marketing gimmick, some tweak, that makes everyone else's stuff not play well with theirs, and of course, you as an end consumer won't be able to buy it over the counter, assuming it would even fit your bike in the first place. Try to buy a Fox Gary Fisher/now Trek, G2 fork from Fox example.

    Whether it's a proprietary tire and rim bead set up, rear end spacing that is in between or just beyond the current standards, something. So you wouldn't be able to say, pick up a frame from the big S and build it, unless you used their parts, thus sucking you into their realm even more.

    The fatbike market to date, is independent, and inclusive. Should the big boys come to the party, rest assured, for their product it won't be, and there will be no reason beyond pushing consumers into their "concept store" mentality, but they won't do anything, any better, for said exclusivity.......
    You mean the same way there are 2 competing standards for hubs now, neither of which will work with the other? I really don't see the open-source love-fest you see when you see fatbikes- I see expensive bits that generally barely work as promised.

    As it stands now, you can't pick a frame from salsa and just move your surly wheels to it without buying special adaptors and they're owned by the same freaking company.

    The fatbike market to date is fractured and exclusive. You pretty much have to know someone to get a new set of tires if you didn't pre-order them blind the day they were leaked to the internet. Cranks sort of work kind of most of the time except when they don't and you have to take 4 cogs off your casette because the tires only kind of work in that frame. Fatbikes are a mess.

    I love my pugsley, but it's a mess. I love the fact that it's a mess. It appeals to my inner mechanic, knowing that I somehow managed to get x-component to work where no one else could, but that's not what the bulk of riders want. they want easy, they want it to work. And that's what the big boys bring to the party. Stuff that works as promised.

    No one wants their favorite indie band to get popular. But sometimes they do. I hate that apple has gone from being an innovative underdog to a soul-crushing overlord, but **** happens.

  22. #72
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,867
    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    **** happens.
    Plainly, we won't agree, which is fine, I still like you

    Surly, did the best they could to make the whole bike (Pug) function with industry standard stuff. 135 mm hubs, 100 mm DH BB's etc. Obviously, the rims and tires had to be unique, but they still used the 26" format as opposed to inventing their own diameter, claiming it was .23% more betterer....

    Salsa followed Fatback's lead with the 170 rear spacing. Note that they did make adapters for those who wanted to use their 135's, (see any of the 142mm bandwagoneers doing a 135 adapter for their stuff?) They (and Fatback) used either overseas sources for brand name, price point versions, or "allowed" higher end aftermarket folks like Hadley, Hope, Paul, etc to make them, but didn't make them brand exclusive, only available through them.

    I agree, things work with full gear range, barely. But that's not because the big guys aren't here yet. Design issues and barriers are more at play, than the fact that is doesn't have some particular head badge on it.

    If you're just dying for a bike with 10,000 logos on it, and a mess of really bad marketing hype surrounding it about how they waited long enough to really dial it in compared to the rest of the market, you likely won't have to hold your breath much longer....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  23. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    203

    10,000 logos ...branding gone wild

    [QUOTE=

    If you're just dying for a bike with 10,000 logos on it, and a mess of really bad marketing hype surrounding it about how they waited long enough to really dial it in compared to the rest of the market, you likely won't have to hold your breath much longer....[/QUOTE]



    And what is it with the 10,000 logos thing anyway? One of the reasons I like Surly is they are one of the few brands I know of that allow the buyer to peel off their labels if they wish. Stealth mode can be good at times.
    Last edited by Team Honeybadger; 01-08-2013 at 05:34 PM. Reason: oops

  24. #74
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,106
    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    You mean the same way there are 2 competing standards for hubs now, neither of which will work with the other? I really don't see the open-source love-fest you see when you see fatbikes- I see expensive bits that generally barely work as promised.

    As it stands now, you can't pick a frame from salsa and just move your surly wheels to it without buying special adaptors and they're owned by the same freaking company.
    This has been pointed out before, but every time I see a comment like this, I feel it bears repeating- Salsa and Surly are indeed owned by the same company, but they are run as completely different entities with the ability to do independent designs, and in fact, this is encouraged. Surly could have already done a 170mm symmetrical frame but for their entrenched philosophy which will remain in place as long as certain individuals steer that ship. (Not that I am saying that is good or bad. It just is.)

    There is sharing across brands, to be sure, but if Salsa did aluminum "Surlys", what would be the point? Conversely, the steel framed fat bikes are Surly's domain, and will always be offset designs. That sucks in your described scenario, but it is what it is.

    [The fatbike market to date is fractured and exclusive. You pretty much have to know someone to get a new set of tires if you didn't pre-order them blind the day they were leaked to the internet. Cranks sort of work kind of most of the time except when they don't and you have to take 4 cogs off your casette because the tires only kind of work in that frame. Fatbikes are a mess.
    I would say that you are living on the front end of innovation where sometimes things are great, sometimes things are less than advertised, and sometimes things really suck. I saw this with early mountain bikes, early front suspension designs, early full suspension, etc....

    Once everything gets sorted, you won't see such "messes". But I think it bears remembering that a short 4 years ago there was a lot less of everything for fat bikers.

    I love my pugsley, but it's a mess. I love the fact that it's a mess. It appeals to my inner mechanic, knowing that I somehow managed to get x-component to work where no one else could, but that's not what the bulk of riders want. they want easy, they want it to work. And that's what the big boys bring to the party. Stuff that works as promised.

    No one wants their favorite indie band to get popular. But sometimes they do. I hate that apple has gone from being an innovative underdog to a soul-crushing overlord, but **** happens.
    Maybe the "big boys" will get it right, but much has been figured out for them already. With the horsepower to command better components and tolerances from Asian factories, they may have some refinements to bring to the table, and certainly more choices. Is that "getting it right", or is it cashing in on the "next big thing"? Who knows, but choices should proliferate, (if in fact more companies come in, which I believe they will), and that should only add to "your mess". Whether that is a positive or negative is yet to be seen, but most bike geeks like that sort of scenario.

  25. #75
    Fat & Single
    Reputation: ozzybmx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,922
    Good post Ted ! How bad can it get..... they have already made the word "standard" obsolete as far mountain bikes go

    The few fat bike makers have 3 different rear spacings too, counting sandman's its 4.
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
    Dirty Disco CX

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •