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  1. #26
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    Nextie said they are going to coming out with a 65mm rim very soon, sub 500g in the $240 ball park.
    And I love beer!!

  2. #27
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    Hadn't heard that! Right on.

  3. #28
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    This will be a great rig for riding in the Quilomene... can you Imagine? (silly question, I know you can!!)

    Did a ride last Sunday that would have been great for a Bucksaw... thought about it allot as I rode...

  4. #29
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    I know right? I think this is my second post this year!


    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    Man... Spovegas & Rocky Rider back on MTBR... welcome back bros! Cheers!!

    Annual OS Meet is listed down a ways... looking forward to riding/hanging out w/ BOTH of you there!!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I think he's been a little behind on the tubeless game
    This is funny.

  6. #31
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    Nerding way the he|| out late on this 4th of July, I know, but just wanted to test my Bucksaw weight formula against something that Salsa guy Kid Riemer posted up back on 4/11*:

    Weight - Bucksaw 1 size Medium pre-production bike that we have at Sea Otter weighed in today by BikeRadar at 32 lbs 6 oz.

    That's 32.4 Lbs.

    If I use my Horsethief + 10% frame weight logic and plug it into the spreadsheet, I get this:

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-bucksaw-wt-med.png

    So the bottom line here is that I came up with 33.3 vs the actual 32.4 and that I've probably been conservative in estimating the Bucksaw frame weight, and that both the M and L #1 builds should come in between 32 and 33 Lbs. IMHO. I've also been conservative in estimating tube weight, at 1.7 Lbs, which is pretty ridiculous. The good news in all of this is that a sub-30# full sus fatbike probably turns out to be very achievable for less than $6K. What's maybe more important is that I can get there without spending massive amounts of cash on the drivetrain and instead pour it into the wheelset, where it will really make a difference.

    I totally get that the value of this thread and my narrow view is limited, b/c of the wide range of perspectives on this forum. 6K is a stupid amount of money to spend on a bike and I don't know what I have in common with those of you who are shopping for $500 fatbikes on BD, except that I am also currently shopping for a different bike in that same price range, with a 5" footprint to play around with and trash on snow, and saltwater beaches.

    BUT:

    I think the Bucksaw is a game changer and I want in, in a very big way. I think that Salsa, in all it's coolness, is WAY ahead of anybody else on what a full suss fatbike is and should be. I think they've done their homework and have gone way progressive, and I want to reward them with my $. I suspect that they will end up rewarding me far more than I will them. What I don't particularly want to do, in this case, is reward any big mfr copycats, who will undoubtedly capitalize on any success that Salsa has. A glimpse of that whole dynamic, from the same post*, here:

    Geometry - We aren’t sharing the bike geometry until later this summer. I’ll be straight up with you…we put a lot of work into this bike and there is nothing to gain from us sharing our numbers with our competitors at this time.

    On a different note, but since the subject has come up on this thread, I think that mikesee has his finger very much on the pulse of both the tubeless and carbon rim topics. I don't think either one are slam dunks. I will be relying on his expertise.

    *The link is here (you have to drill down into the comments to find it):

    Salsa Cycles
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-bucksaw-wt-med.png  


  7. #32
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    Hello Spovegas

    I am very happy to help you build your Bucksaw........

    In fact I will build it for you !

    Just send me all the parts and I will carefully and lovingly build the entire bike for you.

    I will then spend time refining the build and ride characteristics by extensive 'in the field' testing which I estimate should take a year or two.

    I will then return the fully built bike to you very nicely 'run in'.

    To take me up on this ' once in a lifetime' offer please reply by PM ASAP.

    Yours most (in)Sincerely,
    Dr FG

    Note:- Extra charges may apply.......
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  8. #33
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    ^^^ I don't have any problems paying $6000 for a bike, as long as it works and also holds up while being used for it's intended purpose.

    I'm still smarting from the $4400 Epic that I bought - then couldn't keep the wheels true, couldn't keep the pos PF30 from creaking, kept bending rear shock bolts cause it would slam through its travel and bottom out (even at high shock psi), etc...

    Who'da thunk that a $4400 Epic couldn't be raced in xc by a 145 lb cat 2 racer without constantly fixing stuff? The $700 Giant Yukon FX (that I built up myself) held up better than the Epic.

    So... $6000 for an awesome fatbike - I would pay that if it's not a constant money pit. I am looking forward to some of you being the test pilots 1st though.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood ! View Post
    Hello Spovegas

    I am very happy to help you build your Bucksaw........

    In fact I will build it for you !

    Just send me all the parts and I will carefully and lovingly build the entire bike for you.

    I will then spend time refining the build and ride characteristics by extensive 'in the field' testing which I estimate should take a year or two.

    I will then return the fully built bike to you very nicely 'run in'.

    To take me up on this ' once in a lifetime' offer please reply by PM ASAP.

    Yours most (in)Sincerely,
    Dr FG

    Note:- Extra charges may apply.......
    Guess you gotta be careful about what you ask for around here!

    Well played, Dr FG.

  10. #35
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    I'm going to be watching this thread with interest.

    I am keenly interested in a Bucksaw, as well. I'm going to take a different route, however.

    I'm going to start with a stock Bucksaw 2. I've been riding yellow mtb's for 14 years, and I just have to keep that trend going. I am also not thrilled with the build options for either bike. I figure I'll buy the less expensive one off the floor, and replace parts as I go. I'm not a dropper post guy, for one. That will be sold and replaced with a light post. Not sure I'll go carbon here or not. But def lighter than the dropper that comes on the bike. I will also change the bars/stem with something lighter and more along my fit preferences. I don't like super wide bars, so I'll get something narrower.

    I am going to go 1x for the drivetrain, but even with my shop discount, SRAM's 1x11 stuff is out of my budget. I'm going to piece something together with some of the included bits, a RF Cinch crankset with NW ring, and piece together a wider range 10spd cassette.

    I will be saving most weight over a stock build with those items.

    I'm going to be waiting on the wheels, and will probably ride the stock ones for some time before changing. Carbon rims might be in the budget if I wait long enough and save specifically for that wheel build. I just frankly haven't decided here yet, so I'm going to let the market play out a bit, figure out my options, and use the stock rims to start with.

  11. #36
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    I'm following this thread as well with intense interest. I've put a deposit in with my LBS to get a Bucksaw 1 as soon as they are available. I bought a Farley this winter and I'm hooked on fatbiking. I Have a few other bikes, which I am contemplating selling especially when the bucksaw gets here because I'm anticipating being fully FAT at all times. Love the info and the detail in here, especially since there is so little available everywhere!

    One thing I know that I'll want to change out is the wheel setup to carbon/tubeless when there is something I can do complete for under $1000ish.

  12. #37
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    NateHawk and cianide:

    Great to hear what you guys are thinking. No doubt there's a lot to be said for going with the Bucksaw 2 build and upgrading to lighter and better bits at the same time you are riding the krap out of it.

    Looks like one thing we can agree on is that a light, carbon/tubeless wheelset is at the top of our upgrade wish list. Things are happening so fast in carbon rim space that figuring out when to pull the trigger is gonna be tricky. A year from now, the 2016 high-end stock build rumor mill will probably include Whisky rims (as well as other Whisky bits, I would hope). Not sure I'm willing to sell a whole year of waiting, though. One thing's that's for sure is that I'm not gonna get to worked up about figuring out wheels until I have a half-arse idea of when I might have a frame in hand. Which is anybody's guess, right now.

    Salsa guy Kid Riemer wrote this in the same link I posted above:

    Salsa Dealers will be able to start ordering these bikes at the SaddleDrive dealer event this July. Again, the bikes are slated for Fall 2014 delivery.

    The event details are HERE.

    So probably the week before (which is next week), I'll drop by the LBS and wander into a casual conversation about SaddleDrive and see if they'll poke Salsa for an update.

  13. #38
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    The Salsa/QBP rep for my shop is supposed to be paying a visit sometime today, and I've asked the owner to inquire about the Bucksaw for me.

    I haven't heard about anyone from my shop attending that Salsa event, but I'll be paying attention to when ordering starts.

    I'm not necessarily committed to carbon rims, but carbon would certainly get overall bike weight into a competitive category with what I already have. I am equally curious about the Stans tubeless fat rims. But from what I've read, availability on the wider of the two options has no target ATM, and the 50mm are slated to be available in Sept-ish.

    Of course, if I actually manage to land a full-time job at some point relatively soon, I"ll have a little more budget space to get exactly what I want.

  14. #39
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    Apparently the target date is late Sept. as per the Salsa rep on Thurs. The owner didn't think to ask about pre-order dates so I've got no updates on that front, but I'm going to get in on the pre-season ordering, which will help the shop meet terms with Salsa. Funny how I did that last year when I ordered my 2014 Vaya.

    I find the whole press-fit BB world to be royally f'ing confusing. Salsa seems to be labeling things about as correctly as they can, saying the frame takes 41mm press-fit cups. why the hell do so many bb companies (like Race Face) call their fat bike 41mm press-fit bb's BB92? BB92 is supposed to be 92mm wide, and BB92 is SUPPOSED to be for 24mm spindles, even though Race Face is using 30mm. Still, I really like the Turbine Cinch crankset.

    First changes I will make to the stock Bucksaw 2:
    * I see the Bucksaw 2 no longer is spec'd with a Reverb post. It is now a Truvativ T20, at ~270g
    * Replace crankset with RF Turbine Cinch in a 1x configuration, probably a 26t cog. Sell front shifter, front der, and stock crankset.
    * Add OneUp 42/16t cassette range extender
    * Swap Guide R brakes with XT. Sell Guide brakes.

    Down the road:
    * Probably swap out the handlebars. I may like the wider bars, or I may not. But I could certainly drop some weight with carbon bars.
    * Nates would be fine tires for fall/winter riding as conditions get a little softer and less reliable (like with autumn leaf drop and lower evaporation rates, and esp with snow later in the season) but I'll definitely be looking for some less aggressive knobbies for summer hardpack riding for next season. They should be lighter, too.
    * Consider a lighter tubeless wheelset. This will probably be one of the last significant changes I make. If I commit to a carbon wheelset, it'll take me some time to save that kinda cash. Otherwise, it may take awhile for an acceptable aluminum tubeless rim to show up on the market.

    The stock Guide R brakes are 375g according to SRAM.
    Shimano XT are 299g plus 115g for 160mm rotors = 414g for a +39g difference
    Post changed to a Thomson Masterpiece (199g) = -71g

    Based on my math (using the SRAM numbers you posted for X01), an X9 1x10 build with RF cinch cranks would be 93g heavier than spovegas's build, but a weight drop of 546g (1.2lb) from stock. Considering the brake and seatpost changes, the total weight drop would be 578g (almost 1.3lb). Could possibly shave bit more from the handlebars. Change from 3.8 Nates to 3.8 Knards and drop 95g each (nearly half a pound), also.
    Last edited by NateHawk; 07-13-2014 at 08:25 AM.

  15. #40
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    NateHawk, thanks for feeding this thread with your great info and perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Funny how I did that last year when I ordered my 2014 Vaya.
    ^^^Could you talk a little more about how this went?

    I gotta say, your approach to a custom Bucksaw build has me really thinking, which was exactly the discussion I was looking for when I started this thread. My problem is that I have more money than time right now (not necessarily a good thing since it means that I am working when I should be riding). From that perspective, all the selling off of stock parts is problematic. If I think I'm gonna do this and then never actually do (and my track record ain't great in this area), I'll end up spending eight grand, instead of six. It's a really great plan that you are working on, though. I will be giving it a lot of thought to see if it somehow makes sense for me.

    It's really encouraging to hear that late Sept is the target. It would be just rad to be be able to play with this bike through the fall riding season, before things get frosty, and then frozen and then snowy. With that said, late Sept is like the very BEGINNING of fall (Salsa's stated "delivery season"). I'm not trying to challenge you here, or shoot the messenger or any of that nonsense. But I'm just wondering to myself how they could possibly be able to pull this off. Unless, as hinted at in the Salsa guy comments that I put up a few posts back, they have things well underway and are keeping details super under wraps to thwart the competition. At some point, though, they have to let their dealers know some details, if they want to sell these bikes. My deposit was $100 (I sh!t you not), because my LBS couldn't offer any details and wasn't comfortable taking any more of a deposit. My deposit is really nothing more than just a placeholder and a bit of leverage that the LBS can use to say, "Hey Salsa, we have a customer (two actually, me and Shark) who's put down a deposit." For Salsa and their dealers to go from this level of (non)information to delivering frames/bikes in 2-1/2 months would really surprise me. Anything's possible, I suppose. I think the SaddleDrive event coming up will be pretty telling. If there's not a bunch of information coming out around that event, I'm convinced that we won't have frames/bikes in hand until very late in the year.

    We don't have an LBS here in Spokane, unfortunately, that has really embraced Salsa and their whole gig. Which is unfortunate, because I think Salsa's a really cool and forward-thinking org and I think that Spokane is (just becoming) a big enough market to support such a thing. The one that Shark and I have put our pre-orders in with is maybe the closest here to latching on, because they are really high on the Horsethief.

    And just so my comments above aren't misconstrued, I'm really jacked about the Bucksaw, but I'm not super distraught about getting one in my hands as Soon. As. Is. Humanly. Possible. I'm actualy enjoying the process of thinking the whole thing through and I think that maybe a later delivery might be beneficial in terms of syncing with some of the carbon rim availabilities and proofs-of-workability/durability.

    Luckily, I have the whole bikesdirect frenzy to totally distract me. I'm fatbikeless right now, which is not great, but I have actually come to the twisted point of view that fatbikes are evolving into different sub-species and that I'm not really all that interested in trying to spec out a do-everything fatbike. Which is why I sold my 9:Zero:7. I loved that bike and the fun I had with it, but I feel like I outgrew it and I think I have taken an objective look at how I used it and what I learned from it, and have come to the realization that while it was fun riding it on snow and sand, I had WAY more fun with it on singletrack and adventure biking. So I'd like to optimize my available funds by spending the lions share on a fatbike that rips up trail and off-road adventuring, and spend a fraction of that amount on a second, somewhat disposable bike that has a big footprint for playing in snow and sand.

    Where to put two fatbikes and how to explain all this to my wife? Well, that's a different problem.

    Nate, I couldn't agree with you more on the press-fit BB insanity. I have spent a TON of time on the net trying to sort through this mess and I'm still not sure I have it completely figured out. If it's the next biggest/greatest thing for fatbikes, I'm all for it, but can't we all at least settle on the terminology? A probem inherent with evolution, I suppose. Or not, maybe just ridiculousness?

    Again, thanks man. Really appreciate your thoughts.

  16. #41
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    One of them could always be for your wife to ride and you to "borrow" from time to time

  17. #42
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    Very good point, RockyRider, thanks.

    Impromptu relationship skills clinics.

    One of the many (if not primary) benefits of hanging out on MTBR.

  18. #43
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    A small disclosure: I work at a shop that is also a Salsa dealer. Salsa was a new brand for the shop last fall. I had a commuter with a frame that did not make me excited. Some things about it really pissed me off. I was shopping around for a new frameset when I heard that the owner was considering adding Salsa to the lineup. He was interested in them for mostly touring and gravel stuff. He's trying to build that area of the shop's business, as right now we're mostly a road shop. We don't do a ton of mtb business, but we carry a few Fargos and Mukluks.

    Anyway, when he decided to commit to the brand, he had to put together a minimum order for the season as per his terms with Salsa. Since I knew that I wanted a Vaya by then and I would get it somewhere else if he didn't pick up the brand, he went ahead and added my special order frameset to the shop's preseason order. At that point there really was no other option since we couldn't do one-off special orders until the shop had fulfilled the terms of the deal.

    This time around, it's somewhat of a convenience thing. I am not terribly sure about how the timing of the preseason order will coincide with the Bucksaw availability right now. Maybe Salsa is timing the release of the bike with the 2015 preseason ordering. I just don't know those details, since I wasn't on the schedule to work the day the Salsa rep dropped by. I wish I was, because I hear that he had some catalogs he was showing off. Nothing got left at the shop for perusal later on, which makes me wonder about what details were included.

    I agree that their event is really where we will get a better idea of how things are playing out. Maybe the rep was just giving the "company line" regarding availability and that was more of a goal than anything else. Maybe they have been keeping really tight wraps on the details of this bike so they can have an early lead on the FS fatbike market. You know that some bike companies do little else than poach ideas/designs when they can and would be all over this one.

    As for the bike's intended use, the concept of a do-it-all fatbike, and all that, I get the impression that the Bucksaw would give me a LOT more flexibility than I have now. My spot in the midwest doesn't get feet of snow in the winter. Usually 6-8" at a time is an upper limit with rare instances of more. And usually most of that melts off before more accumulation occurs. It's usually wet, heavy snow. A 2.2-2.4" tire tends to max out somewhere in the neighborhood of 4" depending on the consistency of the snow, before you're doing more pushing than riding. Last winter was odd in that we had several inches consistently for months. My riding got snowed out in about January. A 4" tire should give me significantly more options, and with the Bluto having 5" capacity, it might be worth it to get a wider front tire for winter use. Sand riding isn't a big option here, but it's possible to head up towards Lake Michigan for that sort of thing.

    But this is where the Bucksaw really caught my eye. It is fat enough to extend my winter riding and give me more choices for playing around on new surfaces like sand. But it's really intended to be a summer fat bike, with solid trail geometry. For quite some time I've been bouncing around several different bikes because I have wanted a fat bike for a very long time, yet my FS mtb is getting long in the tooth (11+yrs), I do not have faith that the "lifetime warranty" would do me any good in the event of a frame crack from all those years of hard use (I'd wind up with a longer travel bike built around different wheel diameter, axle, HT, and BB standards so MAYBE my pedals would be able to transfer over?) and that because of that, I ought to buy a new bike anyway. At this point, I'm thinking about just keeping the old bike as a second mtb, or possibly replacing the frame with a steel hardtail, since most of the components bolted onto the bike are MUCH newer.

  19. #44
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    I'll be there next week so will hit you with info starting Monday afternoon.

    Yep full squish PHat is going to be the way forward for me too. Which bike is obviously still way up in the air but if I get to ride one of the Bucksaws I'm sure will be there that might help to sway my decision but I think I'd like to wait for a few more options.

  20. #45
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    NateHawk, thanks for a bunch of great info. Again. Yeah, too bad you missed the Salsa rep. You'd have had some great questions for him.

    gravitylover, that's awesome. Can't wait to hear what you find out.

    Note, for folks following along, "next week' is the week of the 21st, not the 14th.

  21. #46
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    Getting excited.....!...
    We'll have to have a bucksaw trail day I hope to have all my parts waiting one the frame gets here...
    Enjoying the details of your planning so far
    Riding.....

  22. #47
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    Shark, yep. The thought of finally getting a Bucksaw frame in hand and then not having the parts on hand to build it up is not a fun thought. So that's my goal, too. Hard to say how the timing will all work out though, in the long run. The wheels are gonna be a big deal . . . so much is happening so fast in that space that pulling the trigger is gonna be a pressure cooker.

  23. #48
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    I know...
    I went from thinking marge lite, to wait for the Stans, now thinking the nextie 65mm when it's available.....

    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    Shark, yep. The thought of finally getting a Bucksaw frame in hand and then not having the parts on hand to build it up is not a fun thought. So that's my goal, too. Hard to say how the timing will all work out though, in the long run. The wheels are gonna be a big deal . . . so much is happening so fast in that space that pulling the trigger is gonna be a pressure cooker.
    Riding.....

  24. #49
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    Interesting thread! I've ordered a stock Bucksaw 1, and although weight saving isn't critical, I've seen two quick wins. First off I'll replace the saddle with a lighter (and prettier) Selle Italia SLR XC I've got stashed away. Second, I plan to try to convert the stock wheels to tubeless using this technique:

    I'm thinking about switching out the Nate tyres as well, since I find the rubber compound in these to be too hard for wet roots and rock, both of which we have in plenty supply here in Norway. Vee Rubber's fat tyres with silicone rubber are clear candidates. Possibly the 4.25" marked H-Billie, depending on actual rear tyre clearance on the Bucksaw: H-Billie | VEE Tire Co.

  25. #50
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    I've been talking to RaceFace about the Turbine Cinch and the BB required for the Bucksaw. I've seen the Turbine Cinch listed a couple of different ways. Universal Cycles shows the arms as an option (no rings, spindle, bb, or spider) and as a crankset (rings and spider, but no spindle or bb). QBP has it listed as arms and spindle under a couple options, and then you buy the spider/rings you want and the bb you need.

    It made things a bit ugly with different sites listing it different ways.

    It looks like RF is listing spindles based on what your rear hub spacing is. So for the Bucksaw, you'd get the spindle for 170mm hubs. That one's easy enough. For the BB, it looks like you'd want to get the BB92 bottom bracket with a wider sleeve, or use it without a sleeve (part # BB419230B7). The sleeve needed for the Bucksaw would be sleeve kit (# F10015), which is for 121 and 124mm shells. I suppose this would apply also if you're using the Next SL Cinch crankset. Availability for the Turbine Cinch looks to be Aug 1, and I plan on getting an order submitted ASAP. Steve from RF says they've been fielding lots of fat bike compatibility questions lately, so demand looks like it will be high for these.

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