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  1. #51
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    Nice, thanks for the research Nate!
    I have a set of RF NextSL for 170 rear and a 28T direct mount ring on the way from Outside outfitters (I hear their shipping is kind of slow, so we'll see) Just need the BB.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I've been talking to RaceFace about the Turbine Cinch and the BB required for the Bucksaw. I've seen the Turbine Cinch listed a couple of different ways. Universal Cycles shows the arms as an option (no rings, spindle, bb, or spider) and as a crankset (rings and spider, but no spindle or bb). QBP has it listed as arms and spindle under a couple options, and then you buy the spider/rings you want and the bb you need.

    It made things a bit ugly with different sites listing it different ways.

    It looks like RF is listing spindles based on what your rear hub spacing is. So for the Bucksaw, you'd get the spindle for 170mm hubs. That one's easy enough. For the BB, it looks like you'd want to get the BB92 bottom bracket with a wider sleeve, or use it without a sleeve (part # BB419230B7). The sleeve needed for the Bucksaw would be sleeve kit (# F10015), which is for 121 and 124mm shells. I suppose this would apply also if you're using the Next SL Cinch crankset. Availability for the Turbine Cinch looks to be Aug 1, and I plan on getting an order submitted ASAP. Steve from RF says they've been fielding lots of fat bike compatibility questions lately, so demand looks like it will be high for these.

  2. #52
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    I'm joining the party



    I may have missed it, but one of the biggest places to save weight from the stock Bucksaw 1 build is the cranks. The X1 1000 cranks coming stock will be very heavy. The standard spindle version, 175mm w/ 32t is 850g.
    Turner Burner, Polished
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn_man2 View Post


    I may have missed it, but one of the biggest places to save weight from the stock Bucksaw 1 build is the cranks. The X1 1000 cranks coming stock will be very heavy. The standard spindle version, 175mm w/ 32t is 850g.
    True that. Swapping the X1 out for a Next SL saves almost a full pound.

  4. #54
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    So after a sh!t-ton of time spent thinking about this bike and with lots of input from various sources, including this forum, I did a one-eighty and decided to buy a complete Bucksaw 1. I even agonized for quite some time over the Bucksaw 1 vs 2. In the end, I was really comfortable with my decision and I went into the LBS and asked them what I needed to do to lock in with their Salsa pre-season order and they asked for 20%, so $1000, so BAM, done. Haven't looked back, just settled in for the wait.

    These are the main things that made me change my mind:

    1. Lots of good chatter out there about the SRAM brakes. One of my big initial reasons for not liking the stock builds was these brakes - I dig my XT's and fear of the unknown and all that. Sounds like probably I could be pretty content with the SRAMs.

    2. Wheels. Damn. This is probably the biggest contributor to my decision. I have totally convinced myself that this bike will work best with a 60-70mm rim. And I'm very motivated to spend a few bucks to build up a light carbon wheelset, but the rim options just aren't out there yet, IMHO. The LM Lite is 690g, the 70mm Whiskey is 575g and rumored to be ~$500/ea. That's a ton of cash to save a little over half a pound. The 65mm Nextie's are rumored to be around 500g and a lot cheaper, so maybe that's the solution, but like the Whisky's, they're double wall, and the whole double wall thing REALLY bugs me. To spend that kind of dough to shave weight and then have the inherent void that water WILL get into . . . I dunno. I appreciate Shark and others being the pioneers so that we can learn about these new rims, and I will happily eat crow if I turn out to be way off base here. What I would LIKE, though, is a single wall rim in the low 400's. HED makes an 85mm single wall rim that weighs 445 grams. Yes, this fool and his money would soon be parted if an equivalent rim became available in the 60-70mm range, but for now I'm waiting, and LM Lites are not a terrible rim to wait with.

    3. Time. I just don't have it to spend right now on sourcing and ordering all the parts and bits. That's a me-problem, admittedly.

    4. The X01 drivetrain is pretty decent. It's not XX1, but it's plenty good enough and plenty light enough and doesn't need to be replaced. Except for the crankset, which I plan to replace with a Next SL right up front, which saves almost a full pound, and is therefore really good bang for the buck.

    5. The stock build may be lighter than I figured. There's a comment from a Salsa guy at the end of this post, saying the Bucksaw 1 build weighs 32 Lbs, 6 Oz, although he doesn't say what size frame. But say that's a large (my size), then the crankset swap gets me down to 31-1/2 lbs, and a nice tubeless wheelset (when it becomes available) along with some lighter tires should get me under 30# pretty painlessly.

    So of course, now that I have made my decision and all is good and well in the world, NateHawk comes up with some information that indicates I may not be able to get my hands on a first run bike, and may be in for quite a wait. Figures. Karma blows.

    Who knows how this will play out. Not me, that's for sure. My only solace in all this is that at the same time I put the down payment on the Bucksaw, I also ordered a $900 BD Lurch, to thrash during the coming winter. Man, with the potential frustration that looms, I am feeling sorry for the Lurch already.

  5. #55
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    FYI, I was pricing Whisky rims yesterday and MSRP on those puppies is $600/ea.

    I am very close to just going with the Nexties.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    For the BB, it looks like you'd want to get the BB92 bottom bracket with a wider sleeve, or use it without a sleeve (part # BB419230B7). The sleeve needed for the Bucksaw would be sleeve kit (# F10015), which is for 121 and 124mm shells. I suppose this would apply also if you're using the Next SL Cinch crankset.
    Nate and Shark, or anyone else:

    I've been putting together my parts list for my Next SL swap on my Bucksaw. Even though it looks like I won't have a bike in hand for several months, I'm getting kind of antsy about getting the parts ordered that are in high demand. (Yes, I'm ordering a complete build, but I want to swap a coupla things right away.) Case in point is the crankset/BB.

    The main point/question of this post is regarding the BB. I've scoured the web for the 121/124 BB version and I'm coming up totally empty. In like fashion, I've also looked for the sleeve kit and am coming up empty. I guess I could go to my LBS and aggravate them by asking them to spend a bunch of time looking up some new, obscure parts, but I'd rather not.

    So I'm wondering what you guys ordered and what you're thinking. The standard, readily-available version presses in just fine, but without the sleeve. Is the sleeve really necessary? How well do you think it would work?

    One pretty strong conviction of mine is that it's really hard to keep water out of places on a bike that you don't want it to be. Water is really sinister and insistent about getting there. So my philosophy is to assume it will get in and then give it a way out. My sole BB failure has been due to water getting into the shell and having no way out and putting the bearings into a battle for survival with their only defense being the grease they were packed with. The bearings lost. I've since drilled drain holes in my BB shells of all my bikes (if they didn't already have them), and have had no further failures.

    I'm just wondering if this sleeve has the potential to do the same thing - trap water. And whether you guys are planning to run the sleeve or are planning to not run the sleeve.

  7. #57
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    I am running the sleeve. It is certainly on QBP, and I think I found it on Universal Cycles, as well.

    Universal Cycles -- Race Face Cinch Bottom Bracket Spacers

    It's the BB 124-30 spacer on this page. Plenty available, it looks like.

    I was not able to find the BB WITH the wider sleeve in one package. Had to buy the std BB92-30 from Race Face, and then get the spacer sleeve. separately. I briefly considered going without it, but decided against that plan because of something I read somewhere. I don't remember where it was, but the article addressed the plastic sleeves in bottom brackets and recommended keeping the sleeve on mountain bikes and was pretty ambivalent about using it on road bikes.

    It sorta makes sense. I see a lot of road bikes these days with BB systems that don't even offer a sleeve as an option. I have yet to see a mtb using one of those systems. Granted, I don't see as many mtb bottom brackets pulled apart at the shop where I work since we are primarily a road shop, but still.

  8. #58
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    Awesome. Thanks, Nate.

  9. #59
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    Salsa has updated their website. The official frame weight for the Bucksaw is 3040g incl. Shock, Axle, & Collar (size LG).

    Bucksaw 1 | Bikes | Salsa Cycles

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    I also ordered a $900 BD Lurch, to thrash during the coming winter.
    Smart. Ride the Lurch and stop thinking about the BS until the LBS calls to tell you it's available for pick up.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    Salsa has updated their website. The official frame weight for the Bucksaw is 3040g incl. Shock, Axle, & Collar (size LG).

    Bucksaw 1 | Bikes | Salsa Cycles
    The additional details are much appreciated.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    Salsa has updated their website. The official frame weight for the Bucksaw is 3040g incl. Shock, Axle, & Collar (size LG).

    Bucksaw 1 | Bikes | Salsa Cycles
    Right on! That's over half a pound lighter than my estimate. Thanks for posting, Farbar.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Smart. Ride the Lurch and stop thinking about the BS until the LBS calls to tell you it's available for pick up.

  14. #64
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    So it was time for a compulsory visit to the LBS today, just to shoot the sh!t and see if there was any new info on availability. And to keep my face in their minds, and my face with my name, and all that.

    So what came out of my short, cordial visit was confirmation that my full BS1 and Shark's frame-only order are secured. They tried to get another full build for floor stock, but the demand is so high that they couldn't. Their Salsa rep felt bad enough about this that he offered to give them HIS Bucksaw for floor stock, which is the plan. The deal here is that the Salsa reps apparently have access to some of these bikes on an advance basis, and will get them on a priority schedule. My LBS guy thought that it was pretty damn cool that the Salsa rep would give up his BS to help out.

    This bike is a BS2 and it was hinted that this bike will hit their floor before the regular order that will deliver mine and Shark's. It was also hinted that if I might somehow be willing to change my preference from the 1 to the 2, I might be able to get my hands on the early delivery. I could be all wrong about this, but that's just the impression I got. I will have to think about that, and I'll bet you a steak dinner that Shark's wheels are turning right now, too, especially given his preference for color.

    What pretty clearly came out of the conversation was that Bucksaw is seriously oversold. Salsa took a gamble on introducing the first FS fatbike and hedged their potential losses, but as it turns out, the demand has been far greater than they had anticipated. It doesn't help, probably, that they hit it out of the park, based on early reviews.

    I am gonna be a face walking through their door on a regular basis, jib-jabbing, between now and Jan-Feb, which is still when they are estimating that I will get my bike. I put a pretty significant amount of cash down as early as they would take it and I feel like they will have had my money for several months by the time my BS1 hits their floor. That first full build should belong to me and I want to make sure that there is no confusion over expectations.

    No, I am not paranoid.

    Okay, maybe a little.

  15. #65
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    I have been getting to know the salsa rep pretty well myself. Drove 2hrs to demo a BS, and chatted him up in the shop yesterday also.

    Getting solid info about delivery is just not possible. The rep just shrugged his shoulders when I asked.

    My shop had a guy call from out of town last week to order a BS. I had to laugh. Shop owner checked availability on the bike for him anyway to be sure.

    Another local guy has a BS frame on order (he also knows Shark) and we have been discussing our respective builds.

    I know of one shop planning to get one for stock but not sure if they have it on one of the early ship windows or if they will get it after.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Getting solid info about delivery is just not possible. The rep just shrugged his shoulders when I asked.
    At least he's being honest. I find it funny in the business world when people can't admit they don't have any answer to something or when a customer can't accept that nobody knows when something is going to happen.

    A lot of times in life we just have to live with uncertainty.

    When it comes to a new bike I feel better when I get my mind on the "it'll come when it comes" track. Rather than waiting expectantly as one ETA after another goes by and I'm not looking at my sweet new rig yet.

    It's a lesson fatbikers should have learnt well by now given the niche's history with new bikes/products.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I have been getting to know the salsa rep pretty well myself. Drove 2hrs to demo a BS, and chatted him up in the shop yesterday also.
    What did you think about the BS you demo'd?

    I had a poke around the forum to see if you posted a report elsewhere, but I didn't see one.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  18. #68
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    Very true. The extra time is certainly more friendly to my budget and allowing me to trick out my build more.

  19. #69
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    Re: Help Me Build My Bucksaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    What did you think about the BS you demo'd?

    I had a poke around the forum to see if you posted a report elsewhere, but I didn't see one.
    I posted about it in my BS build thread.

  20. #70
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    My bad. I didn't look far enough down the page.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Re: Help Me Build My Bucksaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    What pretty clearly came out of the conversation was that Bucksaw is seriously oversold............., the demand has been far greater than they had anticipated.
    .
    Most here could have predicted this.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post

    It's a lesson fatbikers should have learnt well by now given the niche's history with new bikes/products.
    One of the few certainties in life.

  22. #72
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    BS Bikepacking Setup

    Check THIS out . . .

  23. #73
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    If there was ever a bike to do it all.... This looks to be the closest thing so far
    How the heck did that guy get his hands on one so soon? Insider!

  24. #74
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    Even though I haven't posted on this thread for several months, I've been doing a lot of thinking, in terms of how to lighten up my imaginary BS. I still think the size L that I ordered will come in at around 33.5 lbs. With sub-30 as still kind of the arbitrary goal. I think a Next SL crankset makes sense, if I order it up now, and take the stock cranks off before they have been turned, so that I can eBay them as new.

    I'll be doing a fair amount of bikepacking with this ride. For that purpose, stock wheels and tires will be fine.

    For trail riding, though, a light set of wheels and tires would be rad. 65mm Nexties built up around a (possibly) lighter set of hubs/spokes could make a big difference.

    And the tires: Holy hell. Jumbo Jims purportedly at under 1000g. The difference between two of these and two Nates is 1.7 lbs.

    Still not sure what tubes the BS comes with, but if they're legit 26 x 4's, there's another cheap/easy pound to be saved by going with Q-Lites. Or tubeless.

    It's great that people are starting to get the first delivery into their hands. My LBS still has their lips zipped about mine, telling me only to expect delivery sometime in February, despite the fact that I put $1100 down several months ago. If I was jonesin', I'd be kinda ticked, but as it is, I have way more bikes/riding options than I have time, so I'm not all that antsy. There will come a point, though . . .

  25. #75
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    Tires are a quick way to drop a couple pounds on this bike, it seems.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Tires are a quick way to drop a couple pounds on this bike, it seems.
    has anyone considered a totally diff wheel set for more focused trail riding?? i.e schlick 47mm northpaws with DW 2.75's? orrrrrrr a 650b+ setup to save BB clearance?

  27. #77
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    Re: Help Me Build My Bucksaw.

    Another guy in town getting a frame is planning on something like that. I am not. I liked how the bike handled on my demo ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    has anyone considered a totally diff wheel set for more focused trail riding?? i.e schlick 47mm northpaws with DW 2.75's? orrrrrrr a 650b+ setup to save BB clearance?

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    It's great that people are starting to get the first delivery into their hands. My LBS still has their lips zipped about mine, telling me only to expect delivery sometime in February, despite the fact that I put $1100 down several months ago. If I was jonesin', I'd be kinda ticked, but as it is, I have way more bikes/riding options than I have time, so I'm not all that antsy. There will come a point, though . . .
    It is completely possible your bike didn't make it on the first shipment and that is why the possible February ETA. My shop was saying his two Bucksaw's on order did not make the first shipment either and won't likely be in until the new year.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by keifla123 View Post
    It is completely possible your bike didn't make it on the first shipment and that is why the possible February ETA. My shop was saying his two Bucksaw's on order did not make the first shipment either and won't likely be in until the new year.
    I think you're exactly right, based on what I was told HERE. If it gets here earlier, all the better.

  30. #80
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    Next SL Crankset Components For The Bucksaw

    Today was finally the day to order up everything I need to do the swap from the BS1 stock X1 crankset to a Next SL. The whole pressfit thing is really confusing and I had to go back through this entire thread, as well as Nate's and Shark's (thanks guys), to pull together all the info I needed. And then go shopping. I thought I'd post up a summary, in case it helps anyone going through the same process.

    From Tree Fort
    Crank arms and spindle: $371.99
    Shipping: Free
    (Note: currently out of stock, as is everyone else, but showing a mid-Nov availability)

    From Jenson:
    BB: $50.99
    Chainring: $59.49
    Crank arm boots (optional): $8.99
    Shipping: free

    From Universal:
    BB sleeve (BB124-30 Kit): $18.99
    Shipping: $4.99

    Hope I got everything right. If I didn't, it's not for lack of effort. Took a few hours, all up.

    Total: $515.44

    The plan is to eBay the stock X1 crankset out for a coupla hundred bucks to someone putting together a 121 mm pressfit shell Surly or Salsa frame-up build, and net out at around $300 for the swap. This will gain me the better part of a pound, and ends up being a relative bargain, when you look at what it costs to lose weight in different areas.

    By contrast, the BS carbon frameset only saves 300g over the AL one, and look at the cost differential. I get that there may be differences in ride quality characteristics, but still.

    Tires and wheels are the big playground, and I'm waiting to tackle that until some stuff in the market shakes out. Namely, what the Schwalbe Jumbo Jims will cost and whether anyone is going to offer a single wall 65 mm rim that weighs in at 400-450g. And what it will cost. It could be that it will make sense to yard out the stock wheels and tires in new condition to someone doing that same frame-up build, to offset the cost of a new lighter wheelset, by the time I finally get it. Or not. If I had it in hand now, I'd just swap in some light tubes and probably throw on a well used set of Knards I have hanging in the shop and go ride, given current trail conditions. The cost-to-weight savings for a Marge Lite/Nextie swap doesn't make sense, at this point.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    has anyone considered a totally diff wheel set for more focused trail riding?? i.e schlick 47mm northpaws with DW 2.75's? orrrrrrr a 650b+ setup to save BB clearance?
    I am building the wheels for my BS1 using 47mm Trials rims and Salsa hubs. Was going to do Hope Hubs but saving $125 and going with the Salsa hubs. Hopefully King will start making hubs next year or so and I can do carbon/Kings then. :-) My bike too is in the Dec/Jan time frame that has recently gone to Late Jan early Feb.

  32. #82
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    Rad. Totally dig that you're experimenting outside the box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    Rad. Totally dig that you're experimenting outside the box.
    Not sure how far out of the box it is now that we see the new Turner FS fat bike is coming from them with 50mm Stan's hoops. I actually planned mine quite a while ago for three reasons:
    1. Cost for weight - the Trials rims are lighter than Nextie carbon rims and only $120 a pair with shipping. :-)
    2. They come in cool red color
    3. I already have a fat bike with 80mm rims and 4.5" tires for float, the BS will be a trail ripper so Fat-on-a-diet seemed like a good way to go.

    If I don't like how they ride vs. the stock BS I can build a second set with some 65mm rims easy enough.

    My goal for my BS1 build is a rig lighter than a stock BS1 for cheaper than a BS2 stock spec. I am close but afraid I will be just a touch over budget. ;-)

  34. #84
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    Some Measured Weights

    There is a general impression out there, I think, that stock Bucksaws generally weigh in the "barely above 30-ish" range. We certainly all want them to.

    In my super-recent experience, though, I think they are closer to the "a bit under 35-ish" range, at least in stock config, for size large as a general reference point.

    I had the dealer weigh my bike first on his Park scale, and then I measured it at home on my off-brand Feedback Sports scale. The weights pretty much dead-on matched, so I am inclined to generally trust my scale.

    Here's what I found:

    My BS1, with the stock XO1 cranks swapped out with Raceface Next SL's weighed 33.5 lbs. (With no pedals, for ref.) I weighed the XO1 crankset, and it was 0.7 lbs heavier than than the Next SL hardware, so the stock, large, BS1 probably weighs in the neighborhood of 34.2 lbs.

    The tubes that come with the bike are not all that chunky, but they weigh 1.0 lbs, as compared to Q-Lite tubes at around 0.6 lbs. I swapped in the Q's for the 0.8 lb savings. The Nates weighed 2.8 lbs (1260 g) which surprised me (on the light side), given that I had always considered Nates to be on the chunky side.

    So as it stands right now, I have a size large BS1 on which I have swapped out the XO1 crankset for a Next SL, and I have replaced the stock tubes with Q-Lites, and it sits at 32.8 lbs.

    Would I like it to be closer to 30? Hell yeahs, but I'll tell you what . . . just three years ago, I bought my first fatbike, a rigid, aluminum, 9:Zero:7 with a steel fork. It weighed just under 35 lbs. Now I'm sitting here staring at my new fatty with not only front but rear super-legit suspension, that weighs under 33 lbs. Holy living hell.

    These are good times.

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_1854.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_1853.jpg

  35. #85
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    Congrats! Looks great.
    Tomorrow is supposed to be a nice day too....

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    There is a general impression out there, I think, that stock Bucksaws generally weigh in the "barely above 30-ish" range. We certainly all want them to.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's a pretty decent weight for an AL FS fatty.

    My $7K+ of carbon 6" travel FS bike weighs ~28lbs with 2.35" tires.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Thanks spovegas! I read elsewhere that the stock Bucksaw 1 in Large is exactly 34 pounds, so your math seems right.

    I'm also surprised by the weight of the Nates! Impressive.

    I'm curious about the chainline of the Next SL on the Bucksaw. Could you tell me what rear cog you're in when the chain is perfectly straight? (or between which two cogs)? And how is the chain line when in the lowest gear? Is it noisy and frictiony?

    I ask because I hate when the chain has a bad line to the highest gears. The raceface is lighter, but according to salsa's chart the Raceface puts the chainring 1.5mm further out than the XX1. I might go with XX1 for this reason.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by matto6 View Post
    Thanks spovegas! I read elsewhere that the stock Bucksaw 1 in Large is exactly 34 pounds, so your math seems right.

    I'm also surprised by the weight of the Nates! Impressive.

    I'm curious about the chainline of the Next SL on the Bucksaw. Could you tell me what rear cog you're in when the chain is perfectly straight? (or between which two cogs)? And how is the chain line when in the lowest gear? Is it noisy and frictiony?

    I ask because I hate when the chain has a bad line to the highest gears. The raceface is lighter, but according to salsa's chart the Raceface puts the chainring 1.5mm further out than the XX1. I might go with XX1 for this reason.
    I am not sure 1.5mm is going to make much noticeable difference - the width center to center on 10 speed cogs is 4.14 mm - so that is less than 1/3 of a gear change difference. Changing out the 2mm spacers could get you to .5mm possibly?

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That's a pretty decent weight for an AL FS fatty.

    My $7K+ of carbon 6" travel FS bike weighs ~28lbs with 2.35" tires.
    LBS owners XL BS1 build tipped the scales at 30.5lbs. His build spec is something like this:

    Crank Bros Carbon bars
    Hope Hubs w/ Marge Lite laced with TI spokes
    Formula R1 brakes
    Thomson Elite post
    Sram X9 cranks
    XTR cassette
    1x10 w/ XT or XTR shifter/derailleur (don't remember).
    Larry Ultralight tires

    His build was done mostly by taking parts from his existing TI muk build and swapping to the BS frame.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destr0 View Post
    I am not sure 1.5mm is going to make much noticeable difference
    Yeah, I hear you. But sometimes once you go past a certain point things get ugly, and that point could be right around this range?

    Also, if it's way off, the XX1 gives you the option of using the WolfTooth direct mount chainrings come in two different offsets. One gives you about the same chainline as the RaceFace. The other is in about 5.5mm. I'm wondering if this would be the best, or if it will create problems when shifting into the smallest cog. According to Salsa's chart I linked above it shouldn't create and rubbing problems for 4.0 tires.

    Crap, I should have made this its own thread.

  41. #91
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    FWIW, you can play with chainline on RF cranks, too. You can flip the DM ring (if you went that route) to tweak chainline some. You can also use a single ring on a 2x or 3x spider to fiddle with the chainline some more. As time goes on and the platform becomes more popular, I can imagine that some of the aftermarket companies like WT, Absolute Black, and others will start offering DM rings in a CINCH spline. Not to mention, you can fiddle a bit with the spindle spacers to adjust chainline a little.

    Also, spove, that stainless rod on the base of that scale is meant to be clamped in a workstand, you know, right? ;-)

    Interesting about the weight on the Nates that came on the BS. That may well be why I didn't get quite as much weight savings as I expected with my build. Not to mention, I was basing my estimate of final weight off of some really early estimates of the total weight of a complete bike, which seem to have been a few pounds low. I am doubting now that those early weights were what we'd now consider to be "stock" builds.

    I have been thinking about getting some Nates for winter riding, as trail conditions are not as fast and pristine as summer conditions. Save the HuDus for summertime. This encourages me along that decision-making process. Damn you. I want to buy a helmet and a new GPS this winter, too.

  42. #92
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    The Nates I plucked off my Bucksaw were about 1330g, measured on decent kitchen scales. I plan on going tubeless come spring, which should offer some real weight savings for little cash. Tubeless Fatbike Conversion Update | Cycles In Life

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by matto6 View Post
    I'm curious about the chainline of the Next SL on the Bucksaw. Could you tell me what rear cog you're in when the chain is perfectly straight? (or between which two cogs)?
    Matt, your question is timely, because I'm in super nerd mode right now. I don't have any daylight ride time available due to work and family stuff until after Christmas, and plus, this bike has some technology and geometry that I have not dealt with before, and that I've been spending some time in the evenings just looking at, getting my hands on, measuring and turning over in my head, while the bike is still clean. Come Friday, I end this nerd phase and go ride for three days, but I think the time I am spending now will end up being valuable in terms of understanding the bike and making it more enjoyable once I hit the trail.

    So. I have gone to a fair amount of effort to ensure that the following numbers are accurate within something less than a millimeter, as opposed to something greater than a millimeter. In other words, they are not super precision, but they were done with digital calipers and a lot of care and thought, and I believe they are quite solid.


    The chainline on my bike, as it is set up now is 69 mm. Salsa says it should be 68. I could easily adjust to that with the proper spindle spacers, but I don't think it's that big of a deal.

    The distance from the centerline of the bike to the centerline of each of the cogs, with Cog #1 being the big one, is as follows:

    1 42.1
    2 46.0
    3 49.9
    4 53.8
    5 57.7
    6 61.7
    7 65.6
    8 69.5
    9 73.4
    10 77.4
    11 81.3

    So the chainline aligns most closely with the #8 cog. Matt, I hope that what jumps out at you from the data is that a mm or two is not going to change things in any significant way. You're looking at 4 mm between cogs, nominally, and moving the chainline from one cog to another takes some pretty drastic adjustment at the crank. Bike drivetrain engineering is a science unto itself and I guarantee you that there are engineers at SRAM and Shimano and Salsa and many other companies who understand and find acceptable, due to compromises that are necessary to provide clearance in other areas, the fact that the chainline is not going to live in the middle of the range (aka #6 cog) on fatbikes. Or maybe any other bikes, I haven't really studied this before.

    With that said, the visual offset of the big cog from the chainring is kind of alarming. It's really hard to get a picture of this, but the two that follow will hopefully paint the general picture.

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-20141222_04.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-20141222_05.jpg

    My Cinch, as it is set up now, has (2) 2.5 mm spacers on the drive side and (1) spacer (of unknown thickness, wish I had measured it) on the non drive side. (From the picture, it looks like the there are two spacers on the NDS, but the outermost is actually part of the lash adjustment nut assembly.) The tire to chain clearance is 12mm. The clearance between the DS crank arm and the "chainstay protector", which is something less than the clearance to the actual CS is 6 mm. The clearance between the NDS crank arm and CS is 6 mm.

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-20141222_01.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-20141222_02.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-20141222_03.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-20141222_06.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-20141222_07.jpg

    So there is 5-6 mm to play with on the Cinch setup, as far as moving things from side to side.

    In short, I don't think you are going to affect shifting performance in any real way by choosing one crankset over the other. Things kind of are what they are in terms of what the chain's job is. It's gonna get hurt one way or another and I wouldn't want to be it. But you should go with the crankset you want, IMO.

  44. #94
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    I've heard people talk about a bit of dish in the direct mount chain ring. Can't tell from the pictures. Could you gain or lose anything if you ran it inside out?

    Do you have 30 or 32T? How close is that to the chainstay?

    Thanks for geeking out on this.

  45. #95
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    Yeah, it's dished such that the chainline is moved closer to the centerline of the bike when run the "normal" way, which is how I have it mounted. If you reverse it, it moves the chainline away from the centerline of the bike. It's a 26T, and no where near the CS.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    The clearance between the DS crank arm and the "chainstay protector", which is something less than the clearance to the actual CS is 6 mm. The clearance between the NDS crank arm and CS is 6 mm.

    So there is 5-6 mm to play with on the Cinch setup, as far as moving things from side to side.
    Keep in mind there is always some flex and relative movement between cranks and CS. On some bikes it's quite a lot.

    So don't plan on cutting the clearance down too much.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  47. #97
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    Damn you spovegas, now you have me thinking of calling shops to try and find one.
    My Christmas bonus hit the bank account Friday. Still no ETA on frame...
    I will be patient and keep bugging my LBS - but your idea is eating away at the back of my brain.
    :-)

  48. #98
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    Holy crap spovegas, thanks for the info!!!! With digital measurements and pictures!

    I'm curious, how did you figure out the centerline of the bike (both bb area and wheel)? Eyeball, or did it involve trigonometry?

    I agree 1.5 mm isn't going to make or break anything. But I actually already own a new WolfTooth 28T chainring I'm not using that would move the chain in about 5.5mm. What your numbers are convincing me of is that this will not put the chainline too far in. It might indeed be perfect, and would allow me to share/swap chainrings with my 29er (also has a sram crank).

    If I find a steal of a price on an XX1 fat crank between now and 2017 when my Carbon Bucksaw arrives, I might just grab it.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by matto6 View Post
    I'm curious, how did you figure out the centerline of the bike (both bb area and wheel)? Eyeball, or did it involve trigonometry?
    In general, by clamping straightedges to outside surfaces of whatever I was measuring and taking measurements between those straightedges with calipers, and then measuring the thickness of the components/tubes with calipers and adding or subtracting half that amount.

  50. #100
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    I hate to use the word porn on Christmas day, so I won't. Here are some pics that I hope you Bucksaw "enthusiasts" will enjoy.

    Merry Christmas, all.

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4566.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4569.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4570.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4571.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4573.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4574.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4575.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4577.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4578.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4579.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4581.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4582.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4586.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4588.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4589.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4591.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4592.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4594.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4598.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4599.jpg

    Help Me Build My  Bucksaw.-img_4604.jpg

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