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  1. #1
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    Hello MTBR, noob questions about fat bikes

    Hello! This is my first post about this forum.

    I wanted to buy a fat bike, i have questions about this;

    How much fast they are? How much faster compared to standart 26" MTB? A little bit slower? (in city roads)

    I wanted to use fat bike as %50 city %25 mountain %15 this road %10 snow sand etc. Is it worth buying for these qualities?
    (I don't know is it dumb to have a fat bike exclusively as a city bike?)

    Can they be used as an everyday bike?

    I'll start with this 899 aluminum fat bike

    My height is 6'1" (1.85cm) How much frame size about my height? 19 or 20"?

    So, should i buy Fat Bike or buy 27.5 MTB? Or 28" City bike?

    What is the difference about 26x4.0 and 27.5x3.8 fat bikes?

    Thanks for your time, sorry for my bad english.

  2. #2
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    It seems that a 27.5+ bike would suit your needs well.
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  3. #3
    Big M, Little organ.
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    With the right tires, a fat bike is the most versatile bike you can have IMO. Tires make all the difference. A good snow/sand tire will be reaaally slow on streets. I haven't tried a ton of different tires, but the Maxxis Mammoth 26x4.0 is my summer tire. Pumped up (12-15psi) it rolls well on streets and bike paths. Aired down (7-8psi) it does well in rocks. It isn't good in snow at all though. But I roll around all summer on bike paths with a kid trailer behind me. Works great.

    I suspect the tires that come on the bike you linked are slow and heavy. But if you aren't racing it probably won't matter much. Just wear them out. Figure out what you didn't like and move on to the next pair. As I'm sure you've noticed though, fatbike tires are not cheap.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Organ View Post
    With the right tires, a fat bike is the most versatile bike you can have IMO. Tires make all the difference. A good snow/sand tire will be reaaally slow on streets. I haven't tried a ton of different tires, but the Maxxis Mammoth 26x4.0 is my summer tire. Pumped up (12-15psi) it rolls well on streets and bike paths. Aired down (7-8psi) it does well in rocks. It isn't good in snow at all though. But I roll around all summer on bike paths with a kid trailer behind me. Works great.

    I suspect the tires that come on the bike you linked are slow and heavy. But if you aren't racing it probably won't matter much. Just wear them out. Figure out what you didn't like and move on to the next pair. As I'm sure you've noticed though, fatbike tires are not cheap.

    I can change this tires with Schwalbe Jumbo Jim.

    I heard JJ's are fastest fat bike tire right?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    I can change this tires with Schwalbe Jumbo Jim.

    I heard JJ's are fastest fat bike tire right?
    Yes, but you just added $200 to the price by doing that.
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  6. #6
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    They are fun. I have 2, but for the way you describe their use I would not choose to get one.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    They are fun. I have 2, but for the way you describe their use I would not choose to get one.
    What do you suggest? MTB or City bike?

    I liked fat bikes so much.

  8. #8
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    If you really want one, get one. Just don't expect it to be better at the main types of riding you say you do than several other kinds of bike.

  9. #9
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    I have been riding a fat bike exclusively on the street for over a year now. My first was an iZip Sumo E3 fat ebike, outfitted with Surly Black Floyd street pattern tires. The one I just bought is a Specialized Fatboy Comp Carbon with upgraded brakes and drive, and Duro Fleetwood street pattern tires. Both are ~26x4.00 bikes, both are suspension-less.

    You give up speed in exchange for a wonderfully comfortable, versatile ride that is precise and tremendous fun. It's a trade off.

    As to what fits you, it's like any other bicycle: you have to try a couple out and see what you like. I'm about 6' and by the charts I should ride a Large frame. But I find that due to my shortish inseam and long torso, a Medium does better for me.

    Ride what you like, and don't care what other people say.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    How much fast they are? How much faster compared to standart 26" MTB? A little bit slower? (in city roads)
    In my experience, about 10% slower than my 29er with 2.2 tires.

    But 100% more grins.

    JJs do roll well, but I dont think Id wear them out on asphalt at their price.
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  11. #11
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    I have a few sets of wheels for my fatties. My beach wheels have Surly Big Fat Larrys on them. They have a shallow tread that also allows them to roll really well on pavement so I use the fat bike with those tires blown up to about 13 psi for pavement rides. I also paid a lot less for those tires than I did for my other fat tires or my 29+ tires. It kills me to ride some of the pricey ones on the street.
    Of course a fat bike will be a little slower but isn't a Ford F250 slower than a Mustang?
    It'll make you a stronger rider too.
    I like turtles

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Westy View Post
    In my experience, about 10% slower than my 29er with 2.2 tires.


    JJs do roll well, but I dont think Id wear them out on asphalt at their price.
    JJ price 70 at here. 26x4.0

    You mean JJ's are bad for asphalt riding?

  13. #13
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    Knobbies make noise and add rolling resistant for asphalt riding. I ditched the knobbies on both my fat bikes even before I took them home.

    The Surly Black Floyds have a beautiful ribbed street pattern: great in rain and slick surfaces, a plush ride, superb braking, great handling. They were designed for 65mm rims and work fine up to 75-80mm. Beyond that, the sidewalls crush too easily and you have to run pressures that are too close to the limit for my comfort.

    I put the Duro Fleetwood semi-slicks on the new bike because it has 90mm rims. These are an inverted dirt tire design: the center rib is smooth with just a little rain siping, and where a knobby would have projecting chunks, they have inset geometric cuts. This nets a smooth rolling, quiet tire that can also grip in dirt very nicely. They were superb on the 20 miles of gravel trail I rode last Tuesday. $120/pair in the USA, and 120 TPS with foldable bead. They give a very positive, crisp turn in and beautiful steering and braking response.

    Both these tires do fine on dirt roads and in medium coarse gravel, or over grassy dirt, which is all I do of dirt biking. They're not the best for mud or snow digging, of course.

    With the right tires and gearing, my Fatboy Comp Carbon glides along at 13-15 mph in next to top gear with me stroking along at about 75 rpm, easily. The young guys on narrow tire bikes will blow past me easily, and I usually catch up with them at the next traffic light or stop sign. But heck, I'm almost 64 yo and don't pretend I can run with the young guys anyway...

  14. #14
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    It doesn't sound like you need suspension for any of the roads you describe. A rigid aluminum frame would be OK and a tad lighter. I don't even think you need knobby tires at all either. I already replied to you in the JJ thread and as ramarren says the Duro's cost the same ($120) as the Vee Fatty Slicks from the factory web site, so it's your call. Nothing rolls quieter or better than a slick on hard surfaces or sand. What you need to find out is if the Slacano has enough space to fit 4.5" tires.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    JJ price 70 at here. 26x4.0

    You mean JJ's are bad for asphalt riding?
    They would be okay, but noisy.

    Depending on how much you ride, they would also wear out pretty fast on asphalt. 140 Euro a year just for tires would be a bit expensive.
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  16. #16
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    What's the difference about those tires?

    27.5x3.8

    27.5x4.0

    27.5x4.5 (Trek Barbegazi bikes)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    I can change this tires with Schwalbe Jumbo Jim.

    I heard JJ's are fastest fat bike tire right?
    I wouldn't sweat on the Mammoths. In the real world they roll pretty good. Read any real reviews and they are pretty slick. The only place they seem to be slow is on that dudes rolling checker plate machine.

    The fatbike can be a pretty handy do all rig just by adjusting tire pressures. Even more so if you go to 2 sets of wheels. Say 29ers for your city work and the 26 or 27.5 for trails etc. If your really not going to do snow or sand riding you may think about a 27.5+.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    What's the difference about those tires?

    27.5x3.8

    27.5x4.0

    27.5x4.5 (Trek Barbegazi bikes)

    The obvious difference is width. However keep in mind the diameter is a bit different as well. The 27.5x4.5 is a big wheel/tire to turn. The only real problem I have with the 27.5 fat is the limited availability of tires. Its growing slowly.

    As to your big question. Can a fat bike be used as every day?
    Yes, and I agree with most of the posts. Fat bike tires are generally expensive. So buy a cheap slick/semi-slick for the roads and keep the Jumbo Jims or other knobby tires for off-road. Of course changing tires constantly is a pain. So would a second wheelset be worth it? Maybe 2 bikes (1 fat and one 29er) is just as cost effective? Maybe just wear out those expensive tires is the most cost effective??

    Is a fat bike the best for everyday? doubt it, but its fun.

  19. #19
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    Fatties are mutant bikes. They transform as a result of the pressures you pump into the tires. If you choose 120 tpi softies like the JJ's the range of the mutation is wider than with 72 tpi harder compound tires. Wheel width and diameter affects the latitude of transformation too. Say, with the actual range 27.5 semi-fatties yo can go from David Banner to Hulk. With a 26 x 4.8 or 5+ you get up to Godzilla.

  20. #20
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    I rented a Carbon HT Fat Bike once,
    Was Fun to ride, but for me and my trais It was just way too much tire.

    I wanted one tire pressure for the fire roads to the single tracks,
    Another tire pressure for the technical stuff and yet another for the flat sandy stuff.
    Then came cornering and me wanting a different tire pressure. As for climbing, I'm just not that strong,

    I settled In with a 27.5+ with 2.8" wide tires, starting my third season on this Hard Tail,
    Still don't want a new bike :P

    I've moved and may get enough snow here to use a Fat Bike, N+1 rules!

    N+1 Is the perfect number of bikes to own,, N= your current # of bikes ~~
    I seek only the Flow, "27.5+ Hard Tails Rock"
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by qa_bugfinder View Post
    The obvious difference is width. However keep in mind the diameter is a bit different as well. The 27.5x4.5 is a big wheel/tire to turn. The only real problem I have with the 27.5 fat is the limited availability of tires. Its growing slowly.

    As to your big question. Can a fat bike be used as every day?
    Yes, and I agree with most of the posts. Fat bike tires are generally expensive. So buy a cheap slick/semi-slick for the roads and keep the Jumbo Jims or other knobby tires for off-road. Of course changing tires constantly is a pain. So would a second wheelset be worth it? Maybe 2 bikes (1 fat and one 29er) is just as cost effective? Maybe just wear out those expensive tires is the most cost effective??

    Is a fat bike the best for everyday? doubt it, but its fun.
    Which 27.5x tire is better? 3.8, 4.0 or 4.5?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by qa_bugfinder View Post
    ...
    As to your big question. Can a fat bike be used as every day?
    Yes, and I agree with most of the posts.
    ...
    Is a fat bike the best for everyday? doubt it, but its fun.
    It's obvious there are some downsides to the fat bike for daily use, not least of which is that it takes more effort to pedal one due to tire drag and the additional weight of the big tires. This means you tend to go a bit slower and often not quite as far. But, to me, these are trade offs that I'm willing to accept to meet my purposes in riding: mostly to have fun and exercise, but also to take up the task of local commuting needs.

    I like the feel of a largish tire on a rigid frame/rigid fork bicycle. Such a layout gives me a the road dynamics of being on a very light motorcycle, with similar braking and handling characteristics. Not the same, of course, because the center of gravity is much higher when riding a bicycle, but similar.

    Since my daily needs for running about are light and generally within an 8 to 10 mile radius, a fat bike works well to soak up most of the miserable pavement trauma on our local roads without resorting to heavier, clumsier suspension solutions. Since adopting the fat bike as my local runabout vehicle, my use of fuel for the car and motorcycle have dropped precipitously and saved me more than I've spent on fat bike tires.

    I still need a car, and still want to ride a motorcycle. So in the total picture the cost of a fat bike (or any quality bicycle for that matter) and the cost of maintaining it are probably not a huge savings, if a savings at all, and shouldn't be considered entirely on an economic basis.

    The fact that I can ride a fat bike every day with the right tires and gearing is a plus because it works for me and I enjoy it, not a necessary or a minus.

    G

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    Which 27.5x tire is better? 3.8, 4.0 or 4.5?
    Whichever one suits your desire for gearing, handling, braking, and feel. Different sized tires suit different purposes; one is not necessarily better than another other than in the specific context of how you are going to use it.

    G

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    Which 27.5x tire is better? 3.8, 4.0 or 4.5?
    IF the 27.5x4.5 tire is true to size it probably fits in only a few frames. So if your thinking of buying Bike X that comes standard with a smaller 27.5 tire and then up-sizing, this one might not fit.

    As too better, I have no clue since i ride 26x4.4. Riding styles, strength, brand/model of tire, and types of roads/trails will dictate if it works for you. There are just too many variables. Test ride one!

  25. #25
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    I still feel like a plus bike is exactly what you need. your riding demands and terrain percentages sound a lot like mine (but I do waaayyy more winter riding). However, I never race...speed is not an issue when I ride. I ride for pleasure, escape and technical challenge.

    I have a 29+ (Surly Krampus). I ride it everywhere...paved trail; snow; rocky, rooty, muddy midwestern singletrack; sandy, loamy central and northern Michigan single track; gravel and poor condition back roads...the skatepark. I plan on doing touring and bike packing with it. It has the stock 29x3 Knards, and those have been great for everything but deep snow, and sticky mud <- they don't shed mud well. The Krampus has other versatility features that can make it 3 (or more) bikes in one.

    I have absolutely nothing against fat bikes, but am glad I did not go with a full fatty given my terrain and riding situation. N+1 leaves the door open for a possible full fatty in the future, but right now the Krampus is exactly what I wanted
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  26. #26
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    There's a reason I have three.

    Hello MTBR, noob questions about fat bikes-img_20180506_174109912_hdr.jpg
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  27. #27
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    Honestly you've said only 10% of the riding you do would require a fat bike. Everything else sounds like commuter and mountain bike territory. Personally, I'm not sure I could financially justify fat bike N + 1 at that low a percentage.

    That all said, fat bikes ARE fun (I own two and ride them yearround) and if you want one, get it. They are versatile.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    Which 27.5x tire is better? 3.8, 4.0 or 4.5?
    Definitely 4.0. 3.8 is just to skinny. 4.5 is just too fat. But 4.0 is just perfect.🙄 In fact I don't know why they make those other sizes

  29. #29
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    https://bikerumor.com/2017/12/20/tir...up-against-26/

    All joking aside this article explains most of the key points regarding the difference between 26 and 27.5 fatty tires/ wheels.

    By and large for all season or mainly trail riding you will likely get a more responsive ride from a 27.5 set up. Mainly back-country snow, big fat 26s will likely do a better job

  30. #30
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    A gravel bike would be much better suited to your needs than a fat bike. I use both but would only ever use my fat bike commuting if a) I wanted a laugh b) a much harder workout c) it was deep snow. There's a lot of BS about fat bikes being a great "do everything bike". This is true if you aren't bothered by hauling round 14-15kg with larger rotational weight than anything else. Also, I punctured A LOT on fat bike before going tubeless. My tyres were 4.7"....so a huge contact patch so you open yourself up to much more punctures. Here's an example: I cycled over 6000km on my road bike before I got my first puncture. I cycled barely 20km on my fat bike when I punctured and pulled 3 thorns out of my tyre. If your rims are tubeless ready they are a NIGHTMARE (at least first time) to get bead off rim and inflate. Going tubeless on a fat bike is an absolute necessity. Also, not sure if you have somewhere secure to store it but fat bikes are a badge of honour for scummy thieves. They are desirable so for that reason I would hardly ever commute on mine....plus they also get lots of looks from people just rubbernecking at me while they are driving. I've commuted on MTB, Road Bike, Fat Bike and Gravel Bike. The latter is the real "do everything" bike with a skinny tyre MTB coming a close second for flexibility in urban environments.


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  31. #31
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    Fat bikes are fun. They are not faster, they are not lightweight, but they are fun. It is all I ride and I try to ride everyday. I am not going for the yellow jersey or anything like that. It just makes a regular ride more fun.

  32. #32
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    Fat bikes .. "going tubeless is a necessity!!" ?? Such hyperbole.

    I've had only three flats in 1800 miles+. All three incidents would have caused flats regardless of whether it was a fat bike or any other type of bike. I don't bother with tubeless.. see little value in that effort for my riding. Pulling a wheel, removing a tire and patching a tube, reassembling everything takes about ten minutes at a leisurely pace.

    G

  33. #33
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    On a road bike (like ramarren's), tubeless may be less important, but off-road, tubeless is pretty awesome. Tubeless also has a better feel to it-the tires communicate more and seem more responsive. I delayed in going tubeless until last month, but I love it now. Still, carry a tube just in case if you ride in rough country.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr3anmachin3 View Post
    A gravel bike would be much better suited to your needs than a fat bike.
    I don't have much english.

    Do you want to give up about me buying a Fat Bike?

    I liked fat bikes, i want to use (%50 city %50 others) in city ride (i don't need to much fast as road bike)

    If standard 26x4.0 fat bike a little bit slower than a 26" - 27.5" MTB, i can buy 29" MTB.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post

    Do you want to give up about me buying a Fat Bike?

    .
    I think some of us are saying to look for a plus bike:

    https://surlybikes.com/bikes/krampus

    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...olorCode=black

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    , or a "gravel grinder" type bike. Here is a pretty complete list of choices

    https://www.cyclingabout.com/complet...re-road-bikes/

    some of us think that a true fat bike is not a great way to spend your money; some thik it is fine.

    Ultimately it is up to you, but any one planning on riding as much city/paved road as you would do better with wheels that offer less rolling resistance...
    "It's about having pointless fun in the woods...." - Walt
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  36. #36
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    sXeXBMXer summarized it. Based on the types of riding you've said you want to do, we made recommendations. Doesn't mean you can't get a fat bike-it just isn't the overall best bike for your stated riding.
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  37. #37
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    I think the bike in your original post is also pretty expensive for what it is

  38. #38
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    I agree with MozFat on that, too.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    I think some of us are saying to look for a plus bike:
    What do you think about this bike?

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/int/arx-1

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    What do you think about this bike?

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/int/arx-1
    That's not a plus bike. Plus is not just 27.5 wheels. It also means wider tires. Something like 2.8 to 3.0 inches wide. To do that the bike will likely need wider (boost) hubs and a frame configured to fit the bigger diameter and wider tires. That bike is 27.5 X 1.95, which is actually a really skinny tire.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MozFat View Post
    That's not a plus bike. Plus is not just 27.5 wheels. It also means wider tires. Something like 2.8 to 3.0 inches wide. To do that the bike will likely need wider (boost) hubs and a frame configured to fit the bigger diameter and wider tires. That bike is 27.5 X 1.95, which is actually a really skinny tire.

    My friend said "don't buy MTB if you're using bike in the city"

    I liked Surly Krampus bike but doesn't have reseller in my country.

    This Giant ARX 1 is bad choice for me? %50 city %15 highway %15 mountain %10 others etc.

  42. #42
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    At some point, Guanzo, you're just going to have to decide what you want, regardless of what other people say or think, buy something, and then discover how well or how poorly it meets your expectations.

    I'd forget about asking further questions here and start scheduling test rides on various bikes so you can get a feel for what works best for you.

    I ride my fat bike(s) everywhere, everyday, and I am delighted by them. Regardless of what anyone else has to say about it.

    G

  43. #43
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    You don't seem to be certain what you really need, Guanzo. Given that you like fat and want to ride occasionally on surfaces where fat could be good, 27.5 plus is what was recommended.

    Save Up to 60% Off Plus FREE SHIP 48 STATES ON ALL BICYCLES FREE SHIP* Motobecane NEW Fantom Boost Trail NEW 27.5 PLUS Wheel Bicycles, Fat Bikes, Boost Mountain Bikes
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  44. #44
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    Bear in mind that Ramarren only rides on the road, so his mileage is 100% street.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    What do you think about this bike?

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/int/arx-1
    How much is it...and remind me again where you live?

    I think it could work, but as mentioned above, it is not a plus bike, and I don't think it cab accept plus size tires. I do think the 27.5 wheel size will work.

    It has lower end components, but if you are just starting out, that won't really matter at first. You can upgrade as you learn more about your riding style, and as things break/wear out. My final answer will depend on how much it is. In my situation, a bike purchase has to last me for many years because I am not well-off....I don't have extra money to just blow on many bikes. I want you to spend your money wisely in the end, and I think your first bike should be the most sturdy and versatile in case you never can get another one

    I would half agree with ramarren in that you should go test ride if you can, but also don't be afraid to keep researching....i did for 2 years before I bought my Krampus.

    And as mentioned, do you really need the fat bike, or do you just like the looks of fat ?(big; aggressive; different) A cool looking bike that does not fit you or your riding demands will probably not really get ridden.
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  46. #46
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    The Krampus has to just about define practicality in off-roadable bikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    The Krampus has to just about define practicality in off-roadable bikes.
    Obviously I would agree .

    I also think their Karate Monkey and Ogre are in that same definition...

    go fully rigid steel!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    The Krampus has to just about define practicality in off-roadable bikes.
    Or the Kona Unit X. The thrifty man's Krampus. Only with 27,5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Westy View Post
    Or the Kona Unit X. The thrifty man's Krampus. Only with 27,5.
    Agreed! Several bikes that are better for the OP's stated needs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Agreed! Several bikes that are better for the OP's stated needs.


    I liked Surly Krampus and Kona unit X.

    But they are expensive 1.300$+

    I have only 700-750$ budget =(

    Also those bikes doesn't have reseller and seller in my country

    Bulgaria.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    I liked Surly Krampus and Kona unit X.

    But they are expensive 1.300$+

    I have only 700-750$ budget =(

    Also those bikes doesn't have reseller and seller in my country

    Bulgaria.
    Which is why I posted a link to a plus bike a while ago.
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    https://www.bike24.com/1.php?__qf_pr...B6337%5D=19236
    This should have some reasonably specced plus bikes in Europe, within your budget.

    The components on these bikes are very solid Deore 10 speed. Not lowest level Tourney and Acera 7 and 8 speed etc

  53. #53
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    Some GREAT deals there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    Fat bikes .. "going tubeless is a necessity!!" ?? Such hyperbole.

    I've had only three flats in 1800 miles+. All three incidents would have caused flats regardless of whether it was a fat bike or any other type of bike. I don't bother with tubeless.. see little value in that effort for my riding. Pulling a wheel, removing a tire and patching a tube, reassembling everything takes about ten minutes at a leisurely pace.

    G
    I should have clarified...it's a necessity where I live. I'm riding regularly along hedgerows, backs of fields which are littered with thorns. I've no problem changing out a tube but it's definitely more cumbersome on a fat bike and even more so if the rims are TLR. I'm confident enough with tubeless now that I'm also not hauling round a 450g spare tube in my backpack but carrying plugs instead. It may be fine where you are riding but if I'm halfway up a freezing cold mountain I'm confident that I'm not going to puncture and have to change a tube. I also shaved close to kilo off the bike going tubeless. Tubeless is an effort to begin with but the pay off is well worth the effort.


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    I ride on the street. Broken glass, rocks, nails, detritus from trees, broken pavement, whatever is a constant nuisance.

    That two kilo weight savings is about two thirds the weight of the lock I need to have strapped to the bike all the time.

    It is what it is..

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    Quote Originally Posted by iliketexmex View Post
    Fat bikes are fun. They are not faster, they are not lightweight, but they are fun. It is all I ride and I try to ride everyday. I am not going for the yellow jersey or anything like that. It just makes a regular ride more fun.
    +1 this comment. Fat Bikes ARE fun. That's probably the most important thing to take out of this. That's why I got one. My girlfriend still gives me a hard time about it. As some of the guys mentioned a rigid+ bike might be the way to go but they're all a bit overpriced and beyond your budget. I was looking for one of these for ages but they were hard to find: https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/ind...iABEgKmtfD_BwE

    Like others have said only you will know what you need. The Fat Bike obsession has settled down a bit and maybe moving a bit back into the background. What it has done is pushed + tyre sizes into the mainstream and you'll find a lot of companies now selling 29+ or 27+ bikes. One of those may suit your needs better. Have a look at this beautiful machine here....ok beyond the budget but perfect to get the shopping done in town! LOL https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/b.../1120/p/22005/


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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    I liked Surly Krampus and Kona unit X.

    But they are expensive 1.300$+

    I have only 700-750$ budget =(

    Also those bikes doesn't have reseller and seller in my country

    Bulgaria.
    I hear ya about the price. Extending my search also helped me save up more money to get the Surly. Granted, I had a bike to ride at th time, though it was pretty out of date, so i didn't have to wait to ride.

    Glad to see that some people posted some web sites in your area with choices. As you are looking, definitely keep the quality of components in mind...mostly drivetrain and brakes. I think from what I saw listed in your price range, you would be alright to start with what's available. Quality of those components, and then fit of the bike will be the biggest issues that might make riding not fun right away
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    I ride on the street. Broken glass, rocks, nails, detritus from trees, broken pavement, whatever is a constant nuisance.

    That two kilo weight savings is about two thirds the weight of the lock I need to have strapped to the bike all the time.

    It is what it is..
    Those are compelling arguments for going tubeless. Fat bikes do feel better when running tubeless, even if you never lower your tire pressures below 20 psi. For those who ride off road, tubeless really is a life changer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Those are compelling arguments for going tubeless. Fat bikes do feel better when running tubeless, even if you never lower your tire pressures below 20 psi. For those who ride off road, tubeless really is a life changer.
    The birth of my first kid was life changing, going tubless not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    The birth of my first kid was life changing, going tubless not so much.
    Some folks' lives are changed only by major incidents, I suppose.
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    I was the holdout in my group going tubeless. When I finally did, it was on a 29er with 30mm rims and 2.3" tires. I immediately noticed an immense improvement in traction running about 2-3 psi less than with tubes.
    I've never even run my fat bike with a tube ever. I went fat in 2012 and haven't had a flat once on the fat bike.
    In a SMALL way, going tubeless was life changing for me because I was always the guy getting flats on the group rides. I'm not flat guy anymore.
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    There is very little to support riding anything with tubes. Last time I took a tire off there was dozens of thorns from the last 2 years riding, that I never knew about. Each one would have been a tube change.. The one big cut I was still able to re-air, limp home and permanently repair with a couple of plugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Those are compelling arguments for going tubeless. Fat bikes do feel better when running tubeless, even if you never lower your tire pressures below 20 psi. For those who ride off road, tubeless really is a life changer.
    Why are they compelling arguments for going tubeless when going tubeless generally means a messier, more complicated tire repair than just pulling the tube, patching it, and re-inflating it again? And when you almost never have a flat in the first place?

    I do not understand this logic. Please elucidate.

    G

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    Why are they compelling arguments for going tubeless when going tubeless generally means a messier, more complicated tire repair than just pulling the tube, patching it, and re-inflating it again? And when you almost never have a flat in the first place?

    I do not understand this logic. Please elucidate.

    G
    Tubeless saves plenty of weight.
    Lets you run lower pressures without fear of pinch flats and better traction in sand snow etc.
    You don't even notice minor punctures like thorns etc. In reality you will very seldom ever have to strip down a tubeless wheel. Even big cuts can often be repaired trail-side with a plug.
    My local trails are full of thorns, riding with tubes is all but impossible, some trails we basically refuse to ride with those with tubes, you just end u stopping every km or so.
    Its not actually that hard to do once you get into and try. Try Googling Tubeless tires and thorns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MozFat View Post
    Tubeless saves plenty of weight.
    Lets you run lower pressures without fear of pinch flats and better traction in sand snow etc.
    You don't even notice minor punctures like thorns etc. In reality you will very seldom ever have to strip down a tubeless wheel. Even big cuts can often be repaired trail-side with a plug.
    My local trails are full of thorns, riding with tubes is all but impossible, some trails we basically refuse to ride with those with tubes, you just end u stopping every km or so.
    Its not actually that hard to do once you get into and try. Try Googling Tubeless tires and thorns.
    I ride almost entirely on the street. Via testing, the best tire pressures for my bikes and tires is 23 to 25 psi; lower than that, the handling suffers and all I'm doing is wasting energy bouncing when I pedal hard. In 1800 miles of riding, I had a total of three flats despite the miserable streets with nails, glass, and sharp twigs. All three would have required my taking the tire off the rim to repair it.

    The one value I can see is a loss of rotational mass so you can spin up a wheel more quickly, but at the rotational speeds of a fat bike wheel in the 3 to 15 mph range, I just can't imagine this actually makes all that huge a difference.

    Again, the logic makes no sense to me; DH was directing his response directly at me, and he already knows the environment in which I ride is not the trail where it MIGHT have greater value.

    In my opinion, in your thorn filled environment, you are incurring a greater risk of puncture or pinch-flat by running the tires at too low an inflation pressure and would do better to run them at slightly higher inflation. I don't seem to have any problem with traction or cornering when I'm running on graveled trails with my bikes. But then, I am not trying to race or climb through mud and snow.

    G

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    G, it does make sense. Those three flats you had would not have happened had you been running tubeless. If your roads are as full of debris as you suggest, tubeless is absolutely the way to go. Add to that the reduced weight and the increased responsiveness (though at such insanely high pressures as you run, this might not be apparent).

    Regarding off road use on a fat bike, tubeless is the ultimate, because you get the benefit of being able to use those massive tires at any pressure you choose, airing down to ride washes or really soft stuff, then airing up (just a bit-these tires are really at their best sub 15 psi) for harder terrain. Pinch flats become a distant memory tubeless, as do those caused by such things as cactus needles and goatsheads. You don't ride off road with mad high tire pressures, as traction is a very different thing from the street, where it is mostly a constant. Off road, it changes frequently, as does the elevation, with sudden, loose climbs followed by rocky descents, sandy washes, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    G, it does make sense. Those three flats you had would not have happened had you been running tubeless. If your roads are as full of debris as you suggest, tubeless is absolutely the way to go. Add to that the reduced weight and the increased responsiveness (though at such insanely high pressures as you run, this might not be apparent).

    Regarding off road use on a fat bike, tubeless is the ultimate, because you get the benefit of being able to use those massive tires at any pressure you choose, airing down to ride washes or really soft stuff, then airing up (just a bit-these tires are really at their best sub 15 psi) for harder terrain. Pinch flats become a distant memory tubeless, as do those caused by such things as cactus needles and goatsheads. You don't ride off road with mad high tire pressures, as traction is a very different thing from the street, where it is mostly a constant. Off road, it changes frequently, as does the elevation, with sudden, loose climbs followed by rocky descents, sandy washes, etc.
    (bolded) I disagree completely. A ten penny nail or 3/16 inch wood screw puncture isn't going to be fixed by some goop in a tire, neither is a 3/8" inch long slit by a glass shard. You're going to have to take the tire off the rim to fix it, and apply a patch on the inside of the tire rather than onto the tube.

    Again, through experimentation using inflation pressures from 15 psi to 28 psi, I chose the "insanely high pressures" I use because THEY WORK BEST with my bikes' rims and my tires, and are within the manufacturer's correct operating range of inflation pressures for the tire and rim combinations.

    The cost and effort required to fix a flat every several hundred miles, if it happens, is inconsequential compared to the installation and maintenance required for tubeless tires in my use. I have worn out more tires than I've had to replace tubes as it is. I see no value in it, based upon both my experimentation and my experience. Prove otherwise, or pose some logical explanation of why it might be better, and I'll re-evaluate.

    G

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    Incorrect, my friend. You need to watch this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTlZvOVG8zs
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    and this....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    (bolded) I disagree completely. A ten penny nail or 3/16 inch wood screw puncture isn't going to be fixed by some goop in a tire, neither is a 3/8" inch long slit by a glass shard. You're going to have to take the tire off the rim to fix it, and apply a patch on the inside of the tire rather than onto the tube.

    Again, through experimentation using inflation pressures from 15 psi to 28 psi, I chose the "insanely high pressures" I use because THEY WORK BEST with my bikes' rims and my tires, and are within the manufacturer's correct operating range of inflation pressures for the tire and rim combinations.

    The cost and effort required to fix a flat every several hundred miles, if it happens, is inconsequential compared to the installation and maintenance required for tubeless tires in my use. I have worn out more tires than I've had to replace tubes as it is. I see no value in it, based upon both my experimentation and my experience. Prove otherwise, or pose some logical explanation of why it might be better, and I'll re-evaluate.

    G
    Sure in your conditions maybe it's not warranted.
    In my experience you'd be surprised what that goop can fix. Particularly with a tire plug or even two or three that can be installed in seconds. Without removing the tire.

    My worst was a decent gash from a broken bottle about 15 to 20mm on the outside of the case, about 3-5mm on the inside. One plug aired up, still loosing a bit, push in a second plug, shake up the goop. Hasn't lost any air in over a year.
    The only time I partially remove a tire is to bung in more goop, even that you can do through the valve.
    Coincidentally the inside of the tires are full of thorns. Horses for courses I guess.

  71. #71
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    Exactly. Top up the goop every few months in hot weather, ride often-and get zero flats.

    To bring this back to the OP, his riding is not all road nor even predominantly so (a 50/50 split); consequently, tubeless is a huge upgrade.
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    You guys are sounding just like religious zealots, you know. I don't listen to them either. Have fun with your goop and your damaged tires. Oh I see now: Take out the 2 lb tube and put 2 lbs of goop inside. Then you can shred the tire and ride on solidified goop. Whatever works for you.

    For me: Another fifteen miles today ... no punctures, undamaged tires*and tubes with 25 psi in them. Life is good.

    I'm off this thread.

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    Can we get a face palm emoji added to the forum?

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    ramarren: let me tell you, from 100% empirical observation, that going tubeless in a fattie that rolls in ANY surface makes a HUGE difference. Going tubeless plus getting better quality, softer compound and 120 tpi threaded tires makes, indeed, a night to day difference. For hardpack or road riding, going as wide as you can (in my direct experience, 100 mm rims + 4.8" tires) at high pressures, again in my case I'm a 6' clydes @ 220 lbs, it works best at 18/20 psi (FR/RR) the fatty rolls much better, with almost imperceptible drag, and very good high leaning angle, fast & tight turning behavior. On road, that is. It's not only a faster accelerating bike, it also takes less effort to keep at cruise speed. It actually even brakes better, with a more secure and firm feel. The actual feel is like I added full suspension to my fully rigid frame.

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    Pretty sure ramarren is the cult member, because what many of us have been offering is evidence. In the meantime, he still believes a certain way, so it must be true. 2 pounds of sealant-LOL!!!
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    hahah what has this thread turned into?! What about this poor fella asking about entry-level fat bikes? There should be not debate about tubes vs tubeless on a fat bike for off-road. The simple fact is tubeless>tubes on fat bikes. End of. I've had my Farley since late 2016. I've done 2,200km+ on it. The first few hundred k were with tubes and endless punctures. Since going tubeless NONE. Topped up sealant ONCE. NEVER had to use plug or remove tyre trailside. Regularly see punctures and sealant rushing to fill any punctures. Next thing....someone will be saying you don't need gears. The energy expended here espousing the benefits of tubes would be better spent on a kickstarter to get Guanzo a new bike!


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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    In my opinion, in your thorn filled environment, you are incurring a greater risk of puncture or pinch-flat by running the tires at too low an inflation pressure and would do better to run them at slightly higher inflation. I don't seem to have any problem with traction or cornering when I'm running on graveled trails with my bikes. But then, I am not trying to race or climb through mud and snow.

    G
    Incorrect. Lower pressures help to allow the tire to conform around some potential punctures instead of providing a firm surface for them to penetrate. Riding 20psi +/- might be fine for the street, not so much for trails. Venture over to the Santa Cruz mountains and you will quickly learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr3anmachin3 View Post
    Next thing....someone will be saying you don't need gears. ...
    Well, not if you have the right electric motor...

    Back to the OP, something like this will get you where you want to go:

    https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content...5D=3148;page=2

  79. #79
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    Definitely good suggestions for his choice of bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Incorrect. Lower pressures help to allow the tire to conform around some potential punctures instead of providing a firm surface for them to penetrate. Riding 20psi +/- might be fine for the street, not so much for trails. Venture over to the Santa Cruz mountains and you will quickly learn.
    Thanks, the Ram post was so illogical it didn't even warrant a response. Trying too hard to be the cool retro-grouch.

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    Hello again.

    Making nasty comments about others behind their backs is rude and a sign of cowardice.

    DDWYHUYA,

    G

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    Hello again.

    Making nasty comments about others behind their backs is rude and a sign of cowardice.

    DDWYHUYA,

    G
    Sorry my bad. But really think of two party balloons, one half inflated one inflated to near the max. Try poking them both with a blunt stick?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    Hello again.

    Making nasty comments about others behind their backs is rude and a sign of cowardice.

    DDWYHUYA,

    G
    Lets see, someone calls people a bunch of zealots and then says he is leaving the thread and now is upset that someone responded to the zealot comment? Hmmm.

    Dude, this is a public forum. Nothing is behind anyone's back.

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    I said "you sound like a bunch of zealots" not "you are a bunch of zealots." There is a distinction, unless the English language has changed beyond recognition.

    If I say I'm outta here, well, you might disagree with what I said, but to call me names is really the behavior of the rude, the bully, and the coward.

    Sorry my bad. But really think of two party balloons, one half inflated one inflated to near the max. Try poking them both with a blunt stick?
    Neither will pop if you poke at them with a blunt stick... The fully inflated balloon will bounce away much more strongly to a poke with such a stick. A sharp stick is a different matter: then it depends on the amount of force at the point of contact, and the time there is pressure applied to the surface of the balloons. (One of my classmates when I was finishing my degree in Mathematics was doing a project that I participated in: modeling the behavior of soap bubbles when subjected to puncture pressures. Fascinating stuff, and quite similar to what happens with balloons...)

    I'll say it again because it seems no one listens: I do not ride on dirt, I ride on pavement; I don't ride with knobby tires, I ride with semi-slick tires.

    Goop sealant solutions do well when riding with knobby tires on dirt because the traction is low coefficient forces, the tire is always flexing around the knobs and is designed to. A poke through the tire doesn't go through a knob, it goes through the part of the tread protected from friction between the knobs. You're looking to INCREASE traction by lowering pressure and letting the knobs key into the surface best, pushing the tread and carcass of the tire to flex and conform. A puncture of the tire seals with the goop and flexes without being worn away by the friction that generates traction.

    The traction on pavement is much higher, the friction pulls and generates friction on the tread at a higher level. The tread on a semi-slick tire is thin and all tractive surface. You run higher pressures to REDUCE rolling friction by minimizing contact patch; the smooth-ish surface of the tire is best supported firmly to support your weight and the high tractive forces. A puncture of the surface structure (which is far thinner than the surface structure of the knobby tire) if sealed by goop is a weak spot, and traction/friction forces try to tear it apart. A tube adds sidewall stiffness which helps directional stability and cornering stability in addition to the higher pressure.

    A true tubeless tire (i.e.: for a car or motorcycle, since none exist for a fat bike as yet) has an additional thin sealant layer bonded inside the tread/carcass structure which weighs less than a separable tube and provides the same function. It also has a bead shape, and matching bead shape on the rim, designed to lock and seal the tire to the rim, securing the airtight structure. No goop is needed, and using it is usually detrimental to maintenance of the wheel assembly. This is what's needed for a true tubeless street tire.

    I've been around two-wheeled vehicles and their tires for 50-plus years. I've been through all of this on motorcycles countless times. That why, when I decided to switch my motorcycle with traditional unsealed, standard bead retainer, spoked rims from tubed bias-ply tires to tubeless radial tires, I ordered a set of wheels designed for tubeless tires first rather than do the far less expensive job of applying sealing tape and sealant goop to the OEM wheels. It's a far more secure, safer, and more reliable setup than adapting stuff not designed to take the forces and seal the wheel assembly properly.

    Tubeless conversions on bicycles do not suit my uses at this time. This is not because I don't believe they can, it's because the technology that is needed to do it correctly for street tires and the tractive forces of the street do not yet exist for bicycles in the sizes required for a fat bike's wheels and tires. There are tubeless solutions for skinny tire road bikes ... a rim, a tire, etc ... but not for fat bike road use.

    My tires are wholly designed for street use and provide lower rolling resistance and easier pedaling than any knobby tire, tubed or tubeless, can possibly hope to. The fact that I can also use them on most moderately firm surfaces (gravel, hardback dirt, etc) is a side benefit even though they are not designed for that use.

    If you ride a bike on both loose dirt and street, you are always faced with a compromise one way or the other. I chose what works best for my use, which is street riding, because I have no particular love of riding in dirt. I ride on fat tire bikes with rigid chassis because I prefer the handling and braking dynamics of this type of two-wheeled machine, giving up the lower rolling resistance and higher achievable speeds of the narrow tire bicycle as a given. It's a choice.

    If I want to go faster or tour farther, I'll certainly buy a machine more suited to those tasks.

    Life is full of choices. You should make them based upon full understanding of the facts and ignore overly simplistic dogma, and then accept the consequences.

  85. #85
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    Holy semantic epic, Batman.
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Holy semantic epic, Batman.
    I hope the OP finds some direction somewhere in that diatribe...

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I hope the OP finds some direction somewhere in that diatribe...
    To summarize the consensus in this thread:

    A fat bike may not be the OP's best choice, but of course, that is up to him.

    A plus bike would be more ideal.

    Tubeless tires would be better for his riding style/terrain.

    This site offers bikes of the sort most members think would be suitable:
    https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content...5D=3148;page=2

    Some folks need more gentle care.

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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I hope the OP finds some direction somewhere in that diatribe...
    "...
    Life is full of choices. You should make them based upon full understanding of the facts and ignore overly simplistic dogma, and then accept the consequences."

    I don't recommend one way or another what bike a person might find to their liking. I just say what I do and what has worked, or not worked, for me.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    To summarize the consensus in this thread:

    A fat bike may not be the OP's best choice, but of course, that is up to him.

    A plus bike would be more ideal.

    Tubeless tires would be better for his riding style/terrain.

    This site offers bikes of the sort most members think would be suitable:
    https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content...5D=3148;page=2

    Some folks need more gentle care.

    nice summary...you wanna write my end of the year grade card comments
    "It's about having pointless fun in the woods...." - Walt
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramarren View Post
    "...
    Life is full of choices. You should make them based upon full understanding of the facts and ignore overly simplistic dogma, and then accept the consequences."

    I don't recommend one way or another what bike a person might find to their liking. I just say what I do and what has worked, or not worked, for me.
    Your statements are not based in fact, 2 cases in point:

    1.)
    Have fun with your goop and your damaged tires. Oh I see now: Take out the 2 lb tube and put 2 lbs of goop inside. Then you can shred the tire and ride on solidified goop. Whatever works for you.
    No knowledgeable person puts 2 lbs of sealant in a bike tire.

    2.) Advising to put higher pressure in to avoid punctures flies in face of material science. While you may run high pressure and have experienced few flats, that is coincidence, not causation.

    For a couple data points, I had 2 (known) punctures in 5,000 miles of road riding last year. One tire had a tube and one was tubeless with sealant. I got one flat, guess which one?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    nice summary...you wanna write my end of the year grade card comments
    You're a teacher, too?
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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    You're a teacher, too?
    yep...a middle school and high school band director to be specific, but we do give grades and have tons of end of the year commentary to make
    "It's about having pointless fun in the woods...." - Walt
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    yep...a middle school and high school band director to be specific, but we do give grades and have tons of end of the year commentary to make
    Same here. I teach Latin and chair the foreign language department on my campus. Cheers, amigo!
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post

    For a couple data points, I had 2 (known) punctures in 5,000 miles of road riding last year. One tire had a tube and one was tubeless with sealant. I got one flat, guess which one?
    Wait, wait!! I know! The one with the tube in it?
    I like turtles

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    Hey guys,

    I gave up for taking fat bike because speed issue seems likely. i ended up with buying 29" MTB.

    Honestly i very liked fat bike design and all-around performance. But slow tires ruined this.

    I heard carbon fat bikes are (light-weight) fast as 29" MTB. Lamere bikes for example. Is this true or false?

    https://www.lamerecycles.com/fatbike

  96. #96
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    Whoa! You're planning to spend $4500 on a 29er?
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Whoa! You're planning to spend $4500 on a 29er?
    No, 2 year after maybe.

    Seems like very expensive and not impossible to buy this but i never spent 3000$+ for a bike.

    I bought 650 with this 29" MTB.

    Hello MTBR, noob questions about fat bikes-accell-carraro-big-929-0569.jpg

  98. #98
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    OK. Here is a great 29er that is affordable:

    KONA BIKES | MTB | HONZO | Honzo AL
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanzo View Post
    Hey guys,

    I gave up for taking fat bike because speed issue seems likely. i ended up with buying 29" MTB.

    Honestly i very liked fat bike design and all-around performance. But slow tires ruined this.

    I heard carbon fat bikes are (light-weight) fast as 29" MTB. Lamere bikes for example. Is this true or false?

    https://www.lamerecycles.com/fatbike
    It is impossible to say that one is absolutely faster than the other as it depends upon the conditions.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHun View Post
    Same here. I teach Latin and chair the foreign language department on my campus. Cheers, amigo!
    sweet!! Teachers unite!
    "It's about having pointless fun in the woods...." - Walt
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