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  1. #1
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    HED BAD Aluminum Wheel set or cheaper carbon?

    Looking for a lighter wheel set. The HED carbon is out of my price range.
    Considering Nextie, HED AL, Naran etc.
    It appears that the HED's come in around 1900gr (with HED hubs) which would make them lighter than similar priced carbon rims. Any input guys?

  2. #2
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    Are you sure the HED alum wheels are 1900 grams? I thought they were heavier. If they are indeed 1900 grams then they would be pretty darn light for alum wheels.

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    that's what the HED guy claims in a video I just saw somewhere. I think the hubs only weigh 530gr combined.

  4. #4
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    DT Swiss Big Ride.

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  5. #5
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    My set with HED Brickhouse hubs(150/177) came out to 2090g

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    I really want a set of these. Any thoughts on the Brickhouse hubs. I weigh 260, Kind of scared of carbon wheels with my weight, these wheels look nice. I really want a set of Onyx hubs, but hoping to hear good things about the Brickhouse hub.

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    They are currently on my wife's Farley and I only have a couple snow rides on them. The only difference I've noticed between them and my I9's are the HED's are quieter!

  8. #8
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    I had a set of the hed alum built up with i9 for a little less money than The set from hed

    The weight quoted above I recall being accurate

    My lbs said that the ground control tires I had weigh more than the wheelset

    i previousky built up a set of the big ride- also a great ride. I would so the hed again only because it is a solid rim that requires no rim strip and I like the clean lines.

  9. #9
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    The question is why would I choose carbon rims over the HED AL if the weight is close or even lower. Tubeless setup is probably very easy too.
    I like the DT Swiss wheels mentioned but the tubeless setup is probably a bit more work

  10. #10
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    Well, I can't speak to actually doing the work but I can tell you that all hed and dt Swiss have one lap of tape and that's it. Aired up real quick with a compressor

    I was able to seat 45n beast tires on some whiskey 9 with a floor pump but I think that's because the tires were new and nice and tight

    I personally would do the alum over the whiskey again for cost

  11. #11
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    I am looking at the aluminum rims as well. As light as a lot of the carbon hoops and tubeless setup looks promising! What is the downside? I would think they would be as durable or even better than carbon?


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  12. #12
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    For the price and weight of the Hed aluminum rims I would prolly choose them over my Nexties if I had that choice to make again. Nothin wrong with the Nexties but kinda a no brainer imho.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentpushrod View Post
    I really want a set of these. Any thoughts on the Brickhouse hubs. I weigh 260, Kind of scared of carbon wheels with my weight, these wheels look nice. I really want a set of Onyx hubs, but hoping to hear good things about the Brickhouse hub.
    For the weight, I'd rather have 650g carbon rims than 650g aluminum rims, because the carbon ones will be far wider and far stronger/more reinforced. To get aluminum down to that weight, it gets scary thin and light. It's like a 350g DH handlebar. You *could* make it out of carbon for the same strength at 200g, but if you make it 350g, it will be way over-built and far stronger than that 350g aluminum model, possibly almost solid carbon
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    What's the rim only weight on the aluminum HEDs? If it's close to the nexties, then I think your decision is made.

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    At that point where the weights are the same then it would come down to material and handling characteristics, usually carbon comes out ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    For the weight, I'd rather have 650g carbon rims than 650g aluminum rims, because the carbon ones will be far wider and far stronger/more reinforced. To get aluminum down to that weight, it gets scary thin and light. It's like a 350g DH handlebar. You *could* make it out of carbon for the same strength at 200g, but if you make it 350g, it will be way over-built and far stronger than that 350g aluminum model, possibly almost solid carbon
    That's a good point.

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    DT Swiss rims are 25g heavier and are much stiffer than the BAD aluminums

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantone View Post
    DT Swiss rims are 25g heavier and are much stiffer than the BAD aluminums
    Proof?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantone View Post
    DT Swiss rims are 25g heavier and are much stiffer than the BAD aluminums
    The DT rims need strips and tape to seal, which adds more weight. The HED rims don't require tape if built with the same nipples and spoke washers as the carbon Bid Deals. So we're talking more than 25g.

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    Don't forget that the dt Swiss requires a rim strip

    So 25 grams gone in a heartbeat

    I was late this point I see (edit)

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    Quote Originally Posted by giantone View Post
    DT Swiss rims are .... much stiffer than the BAD aluminums

    <Citation Needed>

    Also the 'A' in B-A-D means aluminum, so it's sort of redundant to say that. But forreal, where are we getting these stiffness metrics from?
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  22. #22
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    Yeah, I'd be interested to see how 650g aluminum rims can approach 650g carbon rims for stiffness. My experience has been, the carbon ones blow them away. They are so much nicer to build from a wheel-building standpoint and you can get them to another degree of "true-ness", plus they are much harder to knock out of true. Although I never felt this before, except maybe a little on my E29 before I tightened up the stock rear wheel, they really make aluminum rims/wheels seem like noodles comparatively.

    The other thing is that with something as stiff as chinese carbon rims, I'm inclined to build the wheels with lighter spokes, that are inherently more flexy (Revolutions). Due to the stiffness of the rim, it's not an issue, but would I use them on an aluminum rim of the same weight (or even heavier)? Probably not.
    Last edited by Jayem; 02-19-2016 at 09:39 AM.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by farleybob View Post
    I am looking at the aluminum rims as well. As light as a lot of the carbon hoops and tubeless setup looks promising! What is the downside? I would think they would be as durable or even better than carbon?


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    Lack of durability is the downside. In order to make an alu rim this light, the extrusion is THIN. If you ride nothing but snow, and soft snow at that, then go for it.

    But if ice, rocks, roots, and 'normal' mtb trails are on your radar for this bike, think carefully. Better to spend more once than less twice.

  24. #24
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    Has anyone seen these in person yet? I hear you on the durability if they are paper thin. I might have to keep my eyes open for a good carbon deal.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by farleybob View Post
    Has anyone seen these in person yet? I hear you on the durability if they are paper thin. I might have to keep my eyes open for a good carbon deal.


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    I have a pair on my Bucksaw laced to I9's. According the mtbr as of late this must be the worst possible combination of hub/rim for a wheelset (lmao). I've got about 100 miles on them so far (just got them in January) and I think they're great. I intend on using them all year round. I can post pics if you're interested.
    Fatbikes tho

  26. #26
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    HED BAD Aluminum Wheel set or cheaper carbon?-image.jpg

  27. #27
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    They look nice! I guess we need some actual field reports to see how durable they are. Maybe Mikesee needs to slap a pair of these on and run them through some rough country!? For my needs here in the midwest I don't beat my wheels up too bad.
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  28. #28
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    I considered the HED rims, but ended up going with BR710 rims instead. My thinking was that with the cutouts, more material is concentrated in the bead area for increased durability. Hopefully they hit the sweetspot between strength and light weight. Tape adds a bit of weight, but they set up tubeless easier than anything i have tried, and my winter trails have lots of rocks and roots so durability is a major concern,not just the lightest weight by a few grams.

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    Thanks! I only have one ride on them. Hope to get some more ride time later this week. I am currently away from home but am told most of the snow has melted, so i might get a chance to try them out on the roots and rocks. I don't do drops and stuff, so i would be shocked to crunch a rim. That said, i might wear it like a badge of honor if it could!!

    I'll report back once i have some ride time.

    I enjoyed the DT Swiss, and i know the guy who bought the bike from me that they were on is enjoying them as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by farleybob View Post
    They look nice! I guess we need some actual field reports to see how durable they are. Maybe Mikesee needs to slap a pair of these on and run them through some rough country!? For my needs here in the midwest I don't beat my wheels up too bad.

  30. #30
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    Best looking set of fat wheels on the market and it isn't even close IMO, but at that weight, consider me skeptical. I hope their awesome because this is a price point I would consider, but I need to see it to believe an aluminum rim this light can hold up.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beluga_ciabatta View Post
    <Citation Needed>

    Also the 'A' in B-A-D means aluminum, so it's sort of redundant to say that. But forreal, where are we getting these stiffness metrics from?
    What format would you like my anecdotal evidence cited in? I have held both the carbon and aluminum HED rims, they're flexy and quite thin. The DT Swiss BR710 is neither of those things. I think Nextie or Whisky are better options for carbon and DT is a better aluminum option; even considering rim tape / weight.

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    I was under the impression that everything else being equal, drilled rims or with cutouts would be weaker than those without cutouts such as these HEDs or the Jackalopes.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estuche View Post
    I was under the impression that everything else being equal, drilled rims or with cutouts would be weaker than those without cutouts such as these HEDs or the Jackalopes.
    To achieve the same weight without cutouts, as Mikesee pointed out above, the thickness of the material has to be thinner and hence much easier to 'ding'.

    I am still running my Rolling Daryll's as I frequently get rim strike when running the rocky shoreline that I ride, but am keen to see the robustness of the BR710's as it's always nice to drop a little weight from where it matters.

  34. #34
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    The gold standard here in Ottawa is a carbon wheel set put out by Woven. They are strong, set up tubeless really well and don't burp. They are cheap enough that you are not afraid to ride them hard. The company is local and has a fantastic reputation for standing behind their product and being great supporters of the fatbike community. Check these out. Woven Precision Handbuilts | handbuilt carbon wheels for mountain, cyclocross, road, fat bikes

  35. #35
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    I have the HED B.A.D. with onyx hubs, completely worth the money. .
    Last edited by oldandintheway; 03-02-2016 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Auto correct

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidthefridgeguy View Post
    The gold standard here in Ottawa is a carbon wheel set put out by Woven. They are strong, set up tubeless really well and don't burp. They are cheap enough that you are not afraid to ride them hard. The company is local and has a fantastic reputation for standing behind their product and being great supporters of the fatbike community. Check these out. Woven Precision Handbuilts | handbuilt carbon wheels for mountain, cyclocross, road, fat bikes
    Hmm, that's $1200+ US for rims that almost certainly come from china and pretty dumpy hubs. Given that you can build chinese carbon rims and hope hubs for about $1000, I fail to see much benefit. If they came with some super-bling hubs, then maybe, but they'd need some flashy I9, Hope, Onyx or something like that to be worth it at the pricepoint IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beluga_ciabatta View Post
    I have a pair on my Bucksaw laced to I9's. According the mtbr as of late this must be the worst possible combination of hub/rim for a wheelset (lmao). I've got about 100 miles on them so far (just got them in January) and I think they're great. I intend on using them all year round. I can post pics if you're interested.
    Why is the Big Deal AL + I9 considered a bad setup?

    I got a pair of the Big Deal AL rims in blue. They look pretty sweet, but have yet to build them up.

    Was doing some searching on the Googles and came across what looked like an official HED document that has build instructions and a note on rim impacts.

    https://hedcycling.blob.core.windows...%202-10-16.pdf

    "Rim impact note:
    If you choose to ride these rims on regular dirt trails (e.g. NOT in soft snow or sand), wider tires and higher air pressure will decrease the chance of rim damage from striking an obstacle. We strongly recommend an honest assessment of your ride style. Use 10 psi minimum on 4" tires, or 8 psi minimum on 5" tires in these conditions. Impact damage is covered by our lifetime crash replacement policy enables the original owner to repair or replace the wheel at substantial savings."

  38. #38
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    I plan to ride mine all rear

    I'll be removing grounds for jumbo Jim 4.0 this week
    No way I'm running 10 psi
    I will bounce myself into oblivion

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidner View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Are these I9's BigRig 760 alloy wheelset? Or a custom build?

    Did they use the rubbed backed washers?

  40. #40
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    Those are the hed alum built to i9
    They were custom built by my local guy
    I do not believe rubber backed washers
    My guy likes the Sapim secure lock nipples
    One wrap of zip tape

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidner View Post
    Those are the hed alum built to i9
    They were custom built by my local guy
    I do not believe rubber backed washers
    My guy likes the Sapim secure lock nipples
    One wrap of zip tape
    You try it without tape?

    This guy seems to have had luck with no tape:


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    I have no doubt it would seat without the tape

    I just don't see the risk / reward ratio being in my favor by not using one lap of tape

    And I defer to what my guy tells me to do

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep01 View Post
    Why is the Big Deal AL + I9 considered a bad setup?

    I got a pair of the Big Deal AL rims in blue. They look pretty sweet, but have yet to build them up.
    It was a sarcastic statement referencing the (top) threads at the time - one of which was "Broken I9 Hubs!" and the other being this one (in which people talk about preferring Chinese carbon wheels to these). In that I9 thread, a few people get scared away by the loud minority of unhappy I9 customers. Take that as you will. I love my BAD wheels on I9s.
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    About to pull the trigger on a set of these laced to I9s or DT350s, haven't decided on a hub yet.

    The trails I ride are pretty mellow, not too worried about rim strikes.

    I've spent some time on the phone with HED... the BADs don't need rubber washers in the spokes like the carbon version because they fit much tighter.

    Looking forward to saving some weight and adding some bling to my Fatboy. That's what it's all about, right?

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    No nipple washers or tape needed. I ran mine all summer with just Orange Sealant and did not experience any significant leaks or problems. Best and lightest fat bike aluminum rims on the market.

  46. #46
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    I've got a set of BAD on DT's, the deciding factors were the tubeless security and the durability of AL over similarly fabbed carbon wheels. I've seen a few of the HED carbon wheels fail when a surprise under the snow impacts the wheel. Carbon cracks, AL bends. For the geometry of this part, AL wins for durability.

    The weight is fantastic, I can't wait to run a lighter set of tires that setup tubeless better than my Bud/Lou winter setup...
    Todd

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    I've built a LOT of HED BADs with no washers at all (including my personal pair) and have yet to hear a complaint about leaking. The tubeless setup is also so incredibly easy that I can usually do it with a floor pump and no tube help at all, depending on the tire. The 120tpi Van Helga in particular is a superstar on this rim

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    I've got a set of BAD on DT's, the deciding factors were the tubeless security and the durability of AL over similarly fabbed carbon wheels. I've seen a few of the HED carbon wheels fail when a surprise under the snow impacts the wheel. Carbon cracks, AL bends. For the geometry of this part, AL wins for durability.

    The weight is fantastic, I can't wait to run a lighter set of tires that setup tubeless better than my Bud/Lou winter setup...
    How do you like the DTs? About a $90 price difference for I9s vs DTs in the places I've looked. Any insight on one vs the other?

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    I've got a set of BAD on DT's, the deciding factors were the tubeless security and the durability of AL over similarly fabbed carbon wheels. I've seen a few of the HED carbon wheels fail when a surprise under the snow impacts the wheel. Carbon cracks, AL bends. For the geometry of this part, AL wins for durability.

    The weight is fantastic, I can't wait to run a lighter set of tires that setup tubeless better than my Bud/Lou winter setup...
    Aluminum will not be as durable as carbon at the same weight. It has to be made very thin to keep the weight down. Neither cracks or dents are necessarily fatal, cracks in carbon are easy to fix and dents when running disc brakes are no big deal either, within limits of course. I suspect both the HED carbon and aluminum rims are less durable than much of their competition because they are lighter. I have a set of HED carbons and I like the weight but I ride them on snow or relatively smooth dirt because they are so light. I have heavier carbon and aluminum rims for when the going gets rougher. I have pounded the crap out of 600 gram carbon rims, I don't think I would do the same with BAD's. As with anything though we each need to find our own comfort zones.
    I also agree with the earlier comment that saying HED's reccommendation to not run a fatbike rim at less than 10 psi kind of defeats the purpose.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    Carbon cracks, AL bends.
    Although we've all seen bent wheels, you might want to look at frame failures, very few are overload failures that cause bends and shearing, mostly it's a localized/small scale overload or flaw/riser/corrosion pit which causes a stress crack that propagates with time(cycles) until the structure can no longer support the load and it ultimately fails. This is most of the aluminum failures I see with mountain bikes and it's not a "bend". I've also cracked one carbon rim due to getting lazy with pressure. Undoubtedly, it would have meant the same thing for an aluminum rim, where I would have had to rebuild it due to a flat-spot or dent, but on the carbon rim I was able to ride it 10 miles, with 7 of those being rowdy downhill, back to the car no problem. Although nothing stands up to rocks, they are tougher than many people give them credit for. About the only place I wouldn't run them is super chunky rock like is found at South Mountain or Goat Camp, you pick up freaking boulders with your shoes that skip across the rims and all sorts of crazy stuff just due to how rocky it is, but otherwise except for knocking the rim out of true, which isn't really possible in the same way with carbon rims, most significant aluminum rim damage/impact ends the useful life of that rim. I learned early on the trick was to run enough tire pressure so you rim doesn't contact rocks in the most extreme circumstance you can foresee. Otherwise, you're on borrowed time.
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  51. #51
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    The people in here complaining about tape weight need to find a hobby that's not riding fat bikes.
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  52. #52
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Volsung again.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by aredemann View Post
    The question is why would I choose carbon rims over the HED AL if the weight is close or even lower. Tubeless setup is probably very easy too.
    I like the DT Swiss wheels mentioned but the tubeless setup is probably a bit more work
    Because if you hit something w a (ultralight) thin Al rim it is likely to bend. A bent rim may not hold air very well in a tubeless setup. Snow also sticks more readily to an Al rim, so there goes any weight savings.

    I just received my Nextie Black Eagle ii's and they look pretty beefy. They state max rider weight of 180kg! I have not laced them up yet but i figured them at about just under 2000g.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    The people in here complaining about tape weight need to find a hobby that's not riding fat bikes.
    No tape = faster/easier setup. My first tubless setup was UST so tape always seemed like a less than perfect solution from an engineering standpoint.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep01 View Post
    "Rim impact note:
    If you choose to ride these rims on regular dirt trails (e.g. NOT in soft snow or sand), wider tires and higher air pressure will decrease the chance of rim damage from striking an obstacle. We strongly recommend an honest assessment of your ride style. Use 10 psi minimum on 4" tires, or 8 psi minimum on 5" tires in these conditions. Impact damage is covered by our lifetime crash replacement policy enables the original owner to repair or replace the wheel at substantial savings."
    Why is this controversial? HED are weight weenie rims. The lightest stuff always suffers when it comes to durability and strength.

    They're racing rims for snow that *can* be used on trails *if* you don't subject them to the abuse that trail bikes get.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once Bitten View Post
    How do you like the DTs? About a $90 price difference for I9s vs DTs in the places I've looked. Any insight on one vs the other?
    I love them... I've got 3 sets now, their drive system is dead simple and strong. I popped in a set of 54t ratchets to speed,up,the engagement too. Can't go wrong with a DT.
    Todd

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Way2ManyBikes's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    578
    I have an original (1st run possible the first set sold to the public) and I've beat the crap out of them and I've ridden ever type of trail including some nasty jagged rock gardens. I weigh 175lbs + 10 to 15 pounds of gear and have only once had an issue.

    I would highly recommend the HED carbon rims and I can't imagine the aluminum wheels would be weaker.

    Btw I run 6psi rear and 12psi front with a bluto.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Marty
    12 JamisDakar650B
    14 FarleyBlue,Bluto,i9-Hed,4.JumboJims
    14 FarleyBlack,Jackalope
    17 Farley 9.6 Under Construction

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