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  1. #1
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    Have you tried fats with studs???

    I was riding up over Hatcher Pass Saturday and wiped out 3 times on the ice. The ice was hidden under the snow so it was hard to see it. Two of the wrecks were not bad but one really rung my bell. I've been waiting on the studded fat tires until I hear some reports from others as to how they hook up with the ice... after my day Saturday I'm ready to move on this.
    I know they're expensive but the amount of Irish whiskey I have to drink to cover the pain of ice diving is also rather expensive.

    Anyone here tried them?

  2. #2
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    No, mine have not arrived yet, but based on experience with other studded tires, I am confident they will work. I recommend ordering them before:
    a) You really get hurt.
    b) You get disappointed by backorders.

  3. #3
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    Not yet, but I will be as soon as the snow flies, and then melts a little, and then gets cold again.

    I have some Schwalbe 2.1 Ice Spiker Pros with the same studs. They hook up like a beast. Studded fatbike tires will be amazing.
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  4. #4
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    I just ordered the Dillinger's today. Had a couple close calls last winter with snow over glare ice on the trail. Not this year
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  5. #5
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    I suck it up and bought a pair of dillingers from a LBS. Had a little hard time shelling out $450.00 for a pair of bike tires, but they got them I wanted them and there worth it to me. I mounted them tubeless using the split tube method I posted earlier on a different thread. This way I do not use any seal in this method to keep them as lite as possible. Put about 50 mile on them on blue dot, rovers run and the tour trail here in Anchorage there is about 1” snow over a lot of overflow ice in places. The roads and trails have some snow pack on them. I have been running nates and I tried going over the icy part of the trails and had to walk my bike over them with nates. The dillinger worked great on the hard packed snow and the ice but going up hills with semi hard pack snow the nates did better as you would expect. Over all if you commute and ride in all type of snow and ice conditions I think they are worth every penny plus they roll a little better than nates 120.

  6. #6
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    I believe the studded tires must be great on the ice but I am thinking of getting a pair of Nates for better traction, (than my BFL's), on trails. How would or do studded tires work on regular trails?

    P.S. I would get a set of Bud and Lou's but my 9-0-7 170 frame wont take the Lou.

  7. #7
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    We do not have very much snow, the studded tire do great on the roots and frozen trail that we have here now. I have ran nates a lot on this type of trails, the studded tires are far superior over this type of trail. But I think in the loose snow and mud the nates would be the way to go.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    How would or do studded tires work on regular trails?
    As in, just snow? No difference between regular rubber and studded in that case. Some will (probably rightly, depending on home brew stud size) claim that they can tear up hardpack, but my DIY studded Larry tires from two seasons back were of similar variety as the Dillinger, and I saw no such thing.

    Ice, ice, baby.

    I kinda want some Dillingers to reduce some weight off my heavy home brew setup. But that's a lot of cash for "kinda want", as I do have a working solution for now... says the guy who will probably end up with a pair anyway.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by curly1 View Post
    I was riding up over Hatcher Pass Saturday and wiped out 3 times on the ice. The ice was hidden under the snow so it was hard to see it. Two of the wrecks were not bad but one really rung my bell. I've been waiting on the studded fat tires until I hear some reports from others as to how they hook up with the ice... after my day Saturday I'm ready to move on this.
    I know they're expensive but the amount of Irish whiskey I have to drink to cover the pain of ice diving is also rather expensive.

    Anyone here tried them?
    If the ice is hidden under snow then it is unlikely commercial studs will reach through the thin packed layer under your tires. They will probably work on glare ice but as soon as you put a layer of snow in there that isn't "frozen" to the ice watch out.
    Latitude 61

  10. #10
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    yes:

    What's that sound? - YouTube

    The traction is absurdly FUN.

  11. #11
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    Last winter I was commuting on my Trek 4300 mountain bike and didn't see some black ice up ahead. As soon as I rolled over it my back tire slid out and I ended up really tweaking my back. I didn't fall but by back was messed up for about 4 months.

    I had a studded tire up front, but not in the back...

    Depending on how much snow/ice we get this winter I may end up getting/making some studded fat tires.

    Be careful with ice...it sucks to fall.

  12. #12
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    I've been riding Home Spun studs for years. Essential around here, unless you only want to ride when the conditions are just right. I've ridden fast and effectively across, up and down stuff I wouldn't have wanted to walk. Lot's of time's I feel safer on the studs than walking.

    This is from a couple winters ago with just two rows of small sheet metal screws. I've since added rows outside or these. If I didn't have studs, on some rides anyway, I'd want knee & elbow protection!

    <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZN0DXeW_t1k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  13. #13
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    Yep, I've put a lot of sheet metal screws in tires. When I owned a shop in the 80's we would put screws in mountain bike tires for people quite often during the winter. They work great.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    I believe the studded tires must be great on the ice but I am thinking of getting a pair of Nates for better traction, (than my BFL's), on trails. How would or do studded tires work on regular trails?

    P.S. I would get a set of Bud and Lou's but my 9-0-7 170 frame wont take the Lou.
    Not a cheap option (are there cheap options?). But why not lightly stud some Nates. Grip studs are easy to use. On trails you will only notice the studs when riding over roots, where they add a lot of grip.
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  15. #15
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    I was very happy with my grip studs and nate's last winter
    We got more ice than snow unfortunately
    they saved my bacon a couple of times on my commute to work
    I think I was running about 36 studs per tire and it was just enough

    Sj
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  16. #16
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    Commuted on them today in Anchorage, they are very confidence inspiring! I didn't once think to slow down or grab brake when ice or hills approached. They roll slower than a Husker Du but also have much more traction. The tread lugs are taller, for room to carry a stud. A fair trade? Waiting for deeper snow at this point for further testing. (its falling right now!!!) LET IT SNOW!!!

  17. #17
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    They are using a sandman hoggar with studded nates as a green commuter around the belgian the queen elisabeth southpole base, maybe caminoloco has an udate how the first arctic summer passed?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Yep, I've put a lot of sheet metal screws in tires. When I owned a shop in the 80's we would put screws in mountain bike tires for people quite often during the winter. They work great.
    Whats the process for studding your own tire and what size/lenght screw do you use?
    Also can you stud a BFL?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    Whats the process for studding your own tire and what size/lenght screw do you use?
    Also can you stud a BFL?
    You can stud just about any tire, just a matter of testing to get the right length & size of screw. I don't like them to stick out too far. Just right is just right and too much is too much. With endo's I'm using 3/8" #6 screws- and they vary in shape and length a little from brand to brand so try to stick with the same brand if you can. First I drill them as accurately with a drill press (I use a section of 2x4 to inside the tire to drill in to) them just screw them in. I cover them with Gorrilla tape but no more than 2 at a time because I want the tire to still be able to expand and contract with pressure. They may not last vary long riding paved roads, but they handle dirt & rock fine and if you keep pavement to a minimum, they'll last quite a while. And they're cheaply replaceable. I take these out after winter every year and use these Endo's for sand tires, then re-stud them for winter again. This will be the third "studding" for this pair.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51222326@N04/6514206925/" title="S1040007 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514206925_c98b5c62b9_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040007"></a>

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    You can stud just about any tire, just a matter of testing to get the right length & size of screw. I don't like them to stick out too far. Just right is just right and too much is too much. With endo's I'm using 3/8" #6 screws- and they vary in shape and length a little from brand to brand so try to stick with the same brand if you can. First I drill them as accurately with a drill press (I use a section of 2x4 to inside the tire to drill in to) them just screw them in. I cover them with Gorrilla tape but no more than 2 at a time because I want the tire to still be able to expand and contract with pressure. They may not last vary long riding paved roads, but they handle dirt & rock fine and if you keep pavement to a minimum, they'll last quite a while. And they're cheaply replaceable. I take these out after winter every year and use these Endo's for sand tires, then re-stud them for winter again. This will be the third "studding" for this pair.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51222326@N04/6514206925/" title="S1040007 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514206925_c98b5c62b9_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040007"></a>
    Wow, thanks ward. Very helpful. I will probably do this instead of buying a set of Nates. My BFL's are not cutting it on the wet, muddy trails.

  21. #21
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    gcappy, with screws, you decide the length that you want. A drill press is fine but not needed at all. Decide on the pattern you want for the screws and start drilling with just a very small drill bit. Drilling is only a guide to know where the screws need to be put through from the inside of the tire and to give the screw a path.

    After deciding on the length of screw you want, just go to Ace or True Value and buy a box of 100 screws and get riding. Personally, the gorilla tape on the inside should be left in longer strips. It won't stick very well to the tire anyways and it can be anything that protects the tube from the sharp edges of the screw.

    By the way, I always liked the screws that had a shorter profile head on them in the phillip variety.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    gcappy, with screws, you decide the length that you want. A drill press is fine but not needed at all. Decide on the pattern you want for the screws and start drilling with just a very small drill bit. Drilling is only a guide to know where the screws need to be put through from the inside of the tire and to give the screw a path.

    After deciding on the length of screw you want, just go to Ace or True Value and buy a box of 100 screws and get riding. Personally, the gorilla tape on the inside should be left in longer strips. It won't stick very well to the tire anyways and it can be anything that protects the tube from the sharp edges of the screw.

    By the way, I always liked the screws that had a shorter profile head on them in the phillip variety.
    Thanks. I will try this out.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    Wow, thanks ward. Very helpful. I will probably do this instead of buying a set of Nates. My BFL's are not cutting it on the wet, muddy trails.
    I don't think studs will help that much in mud. The sharp points are intended to dig into the hard surface of ice. They might help with a thin layer of mud over frozen ground or on wet/muddy roots, but in thick regular mud there's nothing for them to bite into. Big, widely spaced knobs (like Nates) are the ticket for mud.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I don't think studs will help that much in mud. The sharp points are intended to dig into the hard surface of ice. They might help with a thin layer of mud over frozen ground or on wet/muddy roots, but in thick regular mud there's nothing for them to bite into. Big, widely spaced knobs (like Nates) are the ticket for mud.
    Just looking for the best temporary solution until 9-0-7 gets me the new 186 frame and I can run a set of Bud and Lou's.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    You can stud just about any tire, just a matter of testing to get the right length & size of screw. I don't like them to stick out too far. Juswinter again. This will be the third "studding" for this pair.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51222326@N04/6514206925/" title="S1040007 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514206925_c98b5c62b9_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040007"></a>
    ^^I still like this method.^^

    But i remember that in another thread someone used grubscrews to stud a tire.
    He drilled a hole from the inside out screwed in the grubscrews until it completely disappeares in the rubber and i also think he glued in a really thin innertube as a tire liner.

    Has anybody tried that as well ?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  26. #26
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    Even Bud and Lou don't help on ice. I found that today. A very small stream across the trail that was frozen but was pretty wide. Wow, it was a bad decision to try to cross it but it might have made a good video.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabies010 View Post
    ...in another thread someone used grubscrews to stud a tire.
    He drilled a hole from the inside out screwed in the grubscrews until it completely disappeares in the rubber and i also think he glued in a really thin innertube as a tire liner...
    I think I've finally thought of a use for my Endomorph...
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  28. #28
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    As long as you post the results over here, i'm glad to help.

  29. #29
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    In my experience commuting with studded tires (on a non-fatbike), you only really need a front studded tire to prevent falls and crashes. The rear is nice if you're accelerating on a patch of ice but not really necessary.

    I've never really done much off road stuff in the ice though.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omiak View Post
    In my experience commuting with studded tires (on a non-fatbike), you only really need a front studded tire to prevent falls and crashes. The rear is nice if you're accelerating on a patch of ice but not really necessary.

    I've never really done much off road stuff in the ice though.
    If the ice isn't level and you are not riding straight down slope you need both.
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  31. #31
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    I agree, for around town riding on generally level type surfaces, just studs in the front tire will work.
    Last edited by alphazz; 11-15-2012 at 11:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    If the ice isn't level and you are not riding straight down slope you need both.
    Fair enough. Figured I'd throw that out there in case people reading the $450 price tag from the previous page were deterred from riding in icy conditions. In retrospect preaching frugality in the fatbike forum is probably kind of ridiculous though.

  33. #33
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    Pugs with teeth

    I am posting this after just finishing my studded setup. I simply could not afford the 45North national debt style of tires...so I got a pair of origin Devastators and studded them with Ice Spikes. Ice Spikes look like regular hex head screws but are made for shoes, and they are hardened steel. I drilled pilot holes first, around the outside edges, and ended up using almost 100 screws per tire. I find that if I run the tires with about 30 lbs they only contact the ground in a turn, but when it gets icy I let out some air and then you can hear them "click" regularly. I glued them in too, and although the tip poked through the tires on the inside by just a bit, I ground them down using a dremel. Then I put some felt pads on the exposed ends to protect the tubes, the kind of self adhesive pads that you put under lamps. Let me tell you....these Ice Spike are hard and sharp! I have not had a lot of snow yet and have been running them on dry pavement and there is hardly any wear. I can't post the Youtube yet....as I need to post 10 You might be able to search You Tube for Fat Bike 001

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    You Tube does not seem to allow a search for the video so I will post the link when I can.

  35. #35
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    I just got done studding a set of tires like ward with #6 3/8" pan head screws. Picked up 400 from Fastenal on Intl Airport for $5.20. I would recommend drilling with a 3/32" drill bit, tried 1/16" but it was really hard to see the holes when it was time to drive the screws in. Ended up with 150 on the Larry and 200 on the Endo. To protect the tube I decided to try cutting a 5" strip out of a 3mil heavy duty construction trash bag, light, tough, flexible, I'll post if it wears through.

    They are dangerously sharp, but I'm sure the will dull out to an still effective but safer sharpness soon. I ride mostly trails and picked up used tires to stud. Took about 20 minutes a tire to drill, then an hour a piece to drive the screws in.

    Only have one ride on them, didn't fall, but my wife didn't seem to be having any trouble without studs. Moose ridge was still plenty rooty and they did seem to climb over those well. Still testing.

  36. #36
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    You all don't have to use sheet metal screws any longer, there is a company called Gripstuds and they have all you want in studs. I did a Larry with them for the shop and it turned out great. I have 100 studs in that tire and will give it a good test this winter. Check them out for all your stud needs.
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  37. #37
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    Well, the appeal of sheet metal screws is the cost... I looked into grip studs, but for the amount of studs I wanted for rear/front tires, it was basically the same cost as the Dillingers. Not to mention the time saved not installing studs

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by majack View Post
    You all don't have to use sheet metal screws any longer, there is a company called Gripstuds and they have all you want in studs. I did a Larry with them for the shop and it turned out great. I have 100 studs in that tire and will give it a good test this winter. Check them out for all your stud needs.
    At $1 per stud, the price of the Dillengers doesn't look so unreasonable.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUWxGuesser View Post
    Well, the appeal of sheet metal screws is the cost... I looked into grip studs, but for the amount of studs I wanted for rear/front tires, it was basically the same cost as the Dillingers. Not to mention the time saved not installing studs
    The grip studs are expensive, that is why I tried the Ice Spikes. I used three sets of thirty-six per tire and that came to only $56. There is some labor...especially having to grind down the tips, but my time is cheap. Besides...it was fun. Also the Ice Spikes are taller, so better grip in a turn. I don't know how well they will work for those of you that are really aggressive riders. Using sheet metal screws from underneath did not appeal to me as the heads of the screws are on the inside and you need to use such a heavy liner.

  40. #40
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    $56 for 108 is about 1/2 the price of Grip-Studs, not bad.

    Is 100 studs enough? $100 per tire for Grip-Studs is almost 1/2 price compared to a 27tpi Dillinger.

    For $200 I can have studded BFLs on my Moonie and re-purpose a set of tires I'd never use.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    $56 for 108 is about 1/2 the price of Grip-Studs, not bad.

    Is 100 studs enough? $100 per tire for Grip-Studs is almost 1/2 price compared to a 27tpi Dillinger.

    For $200 I can have studded BFLs on my Moonie and re-purpose a set of tires I'd never use.
    I used to use chains...but what I hated about them was having to put them on and take them off all the time. It gets icy...they go on...the streets clear up....they come off. The chain was a ***** to ride on and too soft as they wore out so quickly. I decided that I just needed something to keep me from crashing...rather than having a tire studded like a car. As I said earlier, when I let some air out they contact almost all the time. But when it dries out and the streets clear up I add a little air and I am running smooth. I am not going to carve turns with them though and can't say how well they will hold up for that. I did also order some other screws that were similar in design, but returned them as they had little thread and were way too long for this application. The Ice Spikes have a decent amount of threads.

  42. #42
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    I think gripstuds are almost obsolete with the new studded tires. They cost 80x more than screws, would have cost me $350 plus shipping to put the same number of studs in with gripstuds.

    Dillinger has 240 studs per tire, I think a 100 studs would be skimping.

  43. #43
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    100 studs per tire? Maybe if you want to ride really, really gingerly.

    In other words no. 200 is a minimum from my perspective.
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  44. #44
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    I run 100 studs no problem in the front tire Drew. 200 is overkill for what we ride here in Minnesota. And the gripstuds are far better for me to use than the old sheet metal screws that I was using. To each their own, I just like to think that we have better products on the market that I don't have to use sheet metal screws any longer. For what it's worth, I don't run studs unless I'm racing on a course that needs them. For the better part of my riding, the rubber tires work just fine.
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  45. #45
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    That's cool dude. I wish your experiences were true for me. It is no stretch of the imagination, at all, that you're a more skilled rider, I'll put that out there any day of the week.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    That's cool dude. I wish your experiences were true for me. It is no stretch of the imagination, at all, that you're a more skilled rider, I'll put that out there any day of the week.

    Well lets not get carried away Drew, I've seen you ride and you do just fine. I think it's just one of those things that will work for some but not all. I was never a big fan of a lot of studs in my tires, I like to run on the wild side when I ride I guess. See you out on the trails Drew.
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  47. #47
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    Guess it all depends what you are riding and how good your balance is. I just figured if I was going to stud a set, may as well make it count, especially since it's a spare set of tires. I definitely could see studding lighter to save weight and drag if I only had one set of tires to work with or if you were racing, gripstuds are definitely a more flexible option than pre studded tires.

  48. #48
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    One of the reasons I like the screws, besides the price, is that the threads add some grip besides the points. I don't want them to stick out too far though. Too long and they just want to bend over. And yah, forgot to mention the danger factor. I mount a rear rack when running studs to keep from contacting the tire. If you contact that thing while it's spinning... your going in for some stitch's!

    As for needing them or not... of course if you don't get "slick ice" where your at then you can get by without them. But I don't care how good your balance is or how on the "wild side" you are... there's ice out there that's so slick you aren't staying up on it... riding or walking. I think most of the folks seriously considering studs have probably experienced that. And going down with some speed on hard ice isn't fun. I think they also increase my speed on compact snow & ice just due to "confident grip". No mater what kind you use, if you've got slick ice on the route you want to ride, studs are the answer.

  49. #49
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    Yep, have to agree with Ward, if there is enough ice, you are going down no matter how good your balance is. And some of that ice is downhill, so you're faced with - do you brake and risk wipe out or keep picking up speed and face out a larger wipe out further downhill?

    I ran self studded tires for years (using the smallest car tire studs available), and the grip was incomparable, but there were 2 disadvantages compared to prefab studded tires:

    1) Eventually the stud (flange inside the tire) would wear through the tube, no matter what the liners, glues, etc. installed. Flats in winter are approximately 100,006 times harder and more dangerous to repair than the rest of the year.
    2) They are pretty heavy. Not bothersome on a fun ride, but for daily use it can wear on you.

  50. #50
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    I am an old dude, not a young racer like most of you, but hitting the ice hurts. And man...it happens quick. The Ice Spikes I used are really light...and I think when I weighed them they came in at 150 or so grams? That's per tire...over 100 screws. Can't remember for sure. Anyway that is light...but then there is the rolling resistance. Having chains or screws located where they are constantly in contact adds to the resistance. I only needed them to keep me upright while riding to work and not trails. But not having my chains on...this is so easy...no resistance at all in comparison. I do think that the tires alone do pretty good by themselves, but get a little water on the surface and watch out. I walked on some ice last winter that I had rode across the night before and was amazed at how many times I almost fell where I did not with the bike. I know one thing...when sitting up on that bike while ridding on ice I use a helmet.

  51. #51
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    This is what 100 studs looks like on a BFL. I'd expect around 8 studs, per tyre, to be in contact with the ground at any one time. I think it should be a nice compromise, between grip, and ride quality. If there's too few, I plan to add 50 to each along the 'next on from centre' rows. Then maybe 25 along the centre if I still need more.

    Its an expensive solution, even taking the high quality of the grip studs into account. But I believe the quality of the final tyres produced. Having being fine tuned to your conditions, and not needing thick liners etc. Is where the real pay off is. I have nothing but respect for the true DIY'ers though.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Have you tried fats with studs???-fat-hoptech.jpg  

    A big boy did it, and ran away.
    62*28'

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfurry View Post
    This is what 100 studs looks like on a BFL. I'd expect around 8 studs, per tyre, to be in contact with the ground at any one time. I think it should be a nice compromise, between grip, and ride quality. If there's too few, I plan to add 50 to each along the 'next on from centre' rows. Then maybe 25 along the centre if I still need more.

    Its an expensive solution, even taking the high quality of the grip studs into account. But I believe the quality of the final tyres produced. Having being fine tuned to your conditions, and not needing thick liners etc. Is where the real pay off is. I have nothing but respect for the true DIY'ers though.

    That is the same pattern that I used on the shop tire for studding with grip studs. It worked well last season and can't wait to put more miles on it this year. Nice work on the tire.
    RICOH for LIFE
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  53. #53
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    Spike pattern Nate

    Those tires are in Antarctica now and still doing well.

  54. #54
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    Ice Spikes

    Well I finally his my mandatory 10 posts...so now I can link to my You Tube that shows how I did my Origin 8 Devist-8er's.

    Fat Bike 001 - YouTube

  55. #55
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    Got a chance to really test out the pan screw studs today. Road a local marsh, a lot more varied terrain than I expected, glare ice, wind scultped ice, punchable crust, sugary wind blown snow, dried grass tussocks. The studs did their job on the ice and thin snow over ice. No where close to a wipe out, another rider without studs wiped out twice. Rolling resistance and weight didn't seem too significant for recreational riding.

    If you push the limits exploring, or spend a lot of time where there can be frozen lakes or overflow from streams, studs are the way to go.

  56. #56
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    lookin forward to an install of spikes
    on tires..... once I get the bike~!

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