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  1. #1
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    hadley or hope: which 170mm hub

    anyone any thoughts on this for a high quality 170mm hub?

    im not sure about I9 internals at present...which unfortunately makes me not sure about the paul hub...

    what im looking for: easy servicing, durability solid engagement. ideally the cassette body should be removable with minimal tools.
    what i dont care about: degrees of rotation before engagement, weight, colour, and in some regards initial cost.

    ta muchly.

  2. #2
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    And any info on the On-One hub?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  3. #3
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    anyone any thoughts on this for a high quality 170mm hub?

    im not sure about I9 internals at present...which unfortunately makes me not sure about the paul hub...

    what im looking for: easy servicing, durability solid engagement. ideally the cassette body should be removable with minimal tools.
    what i dont care about: degrees of rotation before engagement, weight, colour, and in some regards initial cost.

    ta muchly.
    I have the Hope FatSno and the Hadley Fatback 170mm rear hubs. This is the first Hadley hub and the fifth(?) rear Hope hub I've owned.

    I've been riding mostly the Hope. It works very well, as I expected. It's 130 grams lighter and can be had for less than half the price of the Hadley. Guess which I'd get again?

    If you want a black rear Hope 170mm, I have a brand new/unbuilt one (and appropriate skewer) sitting in the basement with your name on it which I can send to Sean
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  4. #4
    How much does it weigh?
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    My complaint with the Hopes are the amount of noise they make, and the front hub is rear brake spaced.

    My complaint with the Hadleys are the weight, and price.

  5. #5
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    dRj0n: I'd say don't overlook the Paul Comp Paul Components Rhub 170mm rear hub with I9 driver. Best of both worlds (Paul Components quality and I9 engagement + I9 Quality) in a 170 setup: Paul Component Engineering - Disk RHUB 170

    The hubs are pretty easy to service with minimal tools and both company's provide excellent service in my experience. The engagement IS worth the consideration in my opinion.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackcapstudio/8047651296/" title="Paul Comp Rhub+Whub! by 44 Bikes, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8169/8047651296_e5e9821e24_c.jpg" width="800" height="594" alt="Paul Comp Rhub+Whub!"></a>
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortyfour View Post
    dRj0n: I'd say neither now that Paul Comp came out swinging with their Rhub 170. Check out the Paul Components Rhub 170mm rear hub with I9 driver. Best of both worlds (Paul Components quality and I9 engagement + I9 Quality) in a 170 setup: Paul Component Engineering - Disk RHUB 170
    I agree completely, however the price point is a make or break deal for some.

  7. #7
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    @nvphatty: I completely understand where you are coming from. Price is a stumbling block on this one for many. It is worth it IMO if you save your lunch money. I am impressed. So much so all of my wheelsets have been switched to I9 (classic hubs, not their proprietary setup). The engagement in tech is a game changer for me and I was really happy to see Paul and I9 come through with this collaboration.
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  8. #8
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    I saved my pennies, nickels, & dimes for the WHUB and like you very pleased with the engineering aspect.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    My complaint with the Hopes are the amount of noise they make, and the front hub is rear brake spaced.

    My complaint with the Hadleys are the weight, and price.
    I packed mine with a med weight grease (pedro's) around the inside of the hub shell, it brought the noise down to a very acceptable level. Ive since put close to 1000 miles on my fat bike & still more quiet than stock, & no issues with performance.

    I did the same on my wife's bike that also runs hope hubs, & now she says the are "too quiet" & wants the clicking back....lol....
    (initially she complained that they were too loud!)....can't win.

  10. #10
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    does anyone have any experience with the Phil Wood 170mm rear hubs?

    Elvis

  11. #11
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    I have Hadley's and so far no complaints

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis @ Dirt Works View Post
    does anyone have any experience with the Phil Wood 170mm rear hubs?

    Elvis
    Guitar Ted of this forum had trouble with his. That and the huge price kept me from ever being all that interested.

  13. #13
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    If you grease the pawls of a Hope hub it runs quieter than the recommended Oil lube...

    If you have a problem with a Hope product despite its age an email to them usually gets a reply saying `send it to us and we will look into it`

    A few weeks later you recieve a replaced part or repaired part and if you ask they invite you for a factory tour with riding time on Hope spec Orange bikes and a goody bag to take home afterwards...
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis @ Dirt Works View Post
    does anyone have any experience with the Phil Wood 170mm rear hubs?

    Elvis
    If you want to know what happened, here is the post from my blog concerning the PW 170mm hubs I had: "The Saga Of The Snow Dog And The Phil Wood Hub"

    Essentially the pawls did not engage fully into the ring gear, then they would slip. Once damage started it failed fairly quickly.

    I have ridden three Salsa Cycles branded 170mm hubs extensively since, with no issues at all.
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  15. #15
    How much does it weigh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    A few weeks later you recieve a replaced part or repaired part and if you ask they invite you for a factory tour with riding time on Hope spec Orange bikes and a goody bag to take home afterwards...
    You're lucky... I'm one of many people who have leaky diaphragms on my Tech levers... Hope refused to help me at all on 3 separate e-mails.

  16. #16
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    616fab hubs
    no tools needed to remove the body.
    uses cardrige bearings and a Shimano body (XT or XTR)

    not cheap, but a good investment.

  17. #17
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    thanks all! ricky, might be in touch about that ;-)~

    616 make me a little nervous...its new, they were nukeproof right? and to my mind the design is not yet proven over time - which is important to me.

    couple more questions: do fat back still have some hubs made by hadley? do they use the same parts as the other hadleys?

    could a ti cassessette body go on a 170mm hub? (though i doubt it saves much weight)

    the hadleys can be bolt on or qr right?

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Drevil;9810831

    I've been riding mostly the Hope. It works very well, as I expected. It's 130 grams lighter and can be had for less than half the price of the Hadley. Guess which I'd get again?

    [/QUOTE]

    Really? 130 grams difference in the rear hub? That's huge. Hadley used to be considered light hubs. What are the actual weights of both?

    I have 2 sets of Hadleys and one 170mm rear hub. They all work great and are easily rebuildable with all parts and tools available and it's literally a Mom and Pop store in the USofA, which is nice to support when you can.

    But they are expensive and 130grams is..a.. huge. That's well over 1/4 lb for you metricly challenged individuals.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  19. #19
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    I considered Paul hubs for my new wheels build but the flange spacing from disk mount was a bit off putting considering the price. Im kinda understanding what they are trying to achieve with a equally dished wheel but surely there has to be some strength loss in not moving that flange out to the disk mount.
    3rd set of Hopes on the way..... maybe next time.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hadley or hope: which 170mm hub-diskrhub170main.jpg  

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  20. #20
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Really? 130 grams difference in the rear hub? That's huge. Hadley used to be considered light hubs. What are the actual weights of both?

    I have 2 sets of Hadleys and one 170mm rear hub. They all work great and are easily rebuildable with all parts and tools available and it's literally a Mom and Pop store in the USofA, which is nice to support when you can.

    But they are expensive and 130grams is..a.. huge. That's well over 1/4 lb for you metricly challenged individuals.
    Check the links in my first paragraph for pix.
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  21. #21
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    If you want to do a really light weight build, do Paul WHUB front, Hope rear. Hope front hub is quite a bit heavier then the WHUB. In the end, color choice pulled me away from Paul hubs.

  22. #22
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    Paul Component Engineering - Disk WHUB

    > It is important to note that the Disk WHUB is designed for front disk rotor spacing. There are several 135mm forks on the market like the Salsa Enabler and Surly Pugsley fork that accept rear wheels with rear disk rotor spacing. These forks will not work with the Disk WHUB.
    "Ride what you love, love what you ride"

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    If you want to do a really light weight build, do Paul WHUB front, Hope rear. Hope front hub is quite a bit heavier then the WHUB. In the end, color choice pulled me away from Paul hubs.
    how so??

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jddjirikian View Post
    Paul Component Engineering - Disk WHUB

    > It is important to note that the Disk WHUB is designed for front disk rotor spacing. There are several 135mm forks on the market like the Salsa Enabler and Surly Pugsley fork that accept rear wheels with rear disk rotor spacing. These forks will not work with the Disk WHUB.
    correct

  25. #25
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    Since I use Hadley, I run Hadley. Tools, bearings, parts are all the same, so why not! Plus they are made local(america), designed even more local(Alaska), and proven to work where I need them to(below -20).

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    how so??
    Yeah, I heard they do custom colors if you ask very nicely but I didn't want to know what that would cost

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordyB View Post
    Since I use Hadley, I run Hadley. Tools, bearings, parts are all the same, so why not! Plus they are made local(america), designed even more local(Alaska), and proven to work where I need them to(below -20).
    I tried to purchase hadley but they were out of stock and it took 6 weeks to get a message about avail so i went with paul WHUB.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    Yeah, I heard they do custom colors if you ask very nicely but I didn't want to know what that would cost
    $50 and while it doesn't match the CK rear its very close.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Really? 130 grams difference in the rear hub? That's huge. Hadley used to be considered light hubs. What are the actual weights of both?

    I have 2 sets of Hadleys and one 170mm rear hub. They all work great and are easily rebuildable with all parts and tools available and it's literally a Mom and Pop store in the USofA, which is nice to support when you can.

    But they are expensive and 130grams is..a.. huge. That's well over 1/4 lb for you metricly challenged individuals.
    Hub weights- please note that I did not personally weigh most of these, just harvested information off of the internet (mostly here):

    Hope 170: 349 grams
    Salsa Mukluk 170: 508 grams (with titanium skewer)
    616 170mm: 375 grams (Ultegra freehub) 345 grams (XTR freehub)
    616 front 135mm: 140 grams
    Paul WHUB: 210 grams
    Paul RHUB 170: 427 grams
    Fatback Hadley front: 282 grams
    Fatback Hadley rear: 506 grams w/bolt on axle, 480 grams empty

  30. #30
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    I would go hope on both. Providing the rear disk spacing on a front hub is not a huge issue for you. The reason I say this. Anodizing from hope is some of the most consistent in the biz. Weight is super low. Service is super easy. I also have a feeling that before long they will make bolt on and thru axle kits for these as they do for rest of their hub line up. Convertibility was what originally sold me on hope hubs, durability and weight were a serious bonus. Their head sets take me less than 10 minutes to swap from a rigid to a suspension fork on my 29er with out spending money on a extra race and star nut. No special tools required for this job just your metric allen set.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    Hub weights- please note that I did not personally weigh most of these, just harvested information off of the internet (mostly here):

    Hope 170: 349 grams
    Salsa Mukluk 170: 508 grams (with titanium skewer)
    616 170mm: 375 grams (Ultegra freehub) 345 grams (XTR freehub)
    616 front 135mm: 140 grams
    Paul WHUB: 210 grams
    Paul RHUB 170: 427 grams
    Fatback Hadley front: 282 grams
    Fatback Hadley rear: 506 grams w/bolt on axle, 480 grams empty
    The new Sandman hubs. The rear is 165mm, the front is a 135mm to go in the new suspension fork. Both come with thru-axles and Enduro bearings.
    Servicing the 6-pawl freehub is easy: just loosen the nut on the drive side with a normal 15 key (and another at the non-drive side) and you pull the thing right off the axle.

    The front hub end caps will be redesigned slightly to add stiffness to the already very, very stiff new 125mm travel fork so that might add a few additional grams in the end.

    People have already been running 170mm hubs in Sandman frames with no problems at all. Who wants to try one of these in a 170mm frame ? Price still to be determined, but they won't break the bank.




  32. #32
    Fat & Single
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    Nice hubs and weights !!!
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  33. #33
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    I imagine I weighed my Hadley 170 hub before I built my wheel but at the time there was no other choice so what else was I going to do? But now that I see the big difference I think my next set of fat wheels will start with something else.

    Those Sandmans look good, however for accuracy they really need axles, and the Hopes look good too. I only have a Hope front hub on one bike so I can't attest to longevity but others have had good luck with them.

    The Hadleys are noisy too but not as loud as Hope or i9 (the worst). I think I heard i9 was coming out with a 170 hub too.

    As far as packing the hubs with grease to quiet them down, I'm not sure that isn't going to cause engagement problems in the future. But I guess if you take them apart every so often and clean and repack they may be ok. But that is just one more thing to deal with and it seems like I have to service something on every bike I ride every time I ride them. But then most all my bikes are test sleds for something new or non existent outside of my world so service and tweaking goes with the territory. Hadley specifies mineral oil so I use their mineral oil and don't worry about the noise.

    I totally agree with the idea that the hub flanges should be moved as far out as possible rather than offsetting so much to gain symmetry.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  34. #34
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    What colors will the Sandman hubs be available in?


    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Nice hubs and weights !!!
    x2
    Wish these had been available when I built my wheelset.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    What colors will the Sandman hubs be available in?
    question is who actually manuf the hubs for sandman?? hope, hadley, chris king??

  36. #36
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    Not sure if I should start a new thread, but found this post interesting so I'll ask it here. How big of a difference will hubs make? In the Beginner Forum there was a post about wheels and it brought up that a better hub allows you to have better engagement.

    With my Mukluk, if I put my pedal at the top and go down, it's almost 1/4 of the way around before it engages, maybe more. Is this normal for the Mukluk hub and maybe why it's a pain with the pedal strikes and other issues I have with roots and rocks? Is it worth considering one of the hubs in this post? And it it normal for the pawls to be extremely loud and annoying?

    I'm finally understanding how all the parts work to make a bike better and more efficient so the talk of hubs and the brands really help.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    question is who actually manuf the hubs for sandman?? hope, hadley, chris king??
    Nope, when you see the price you'll know they don't come from any of those brands... Up until now they made and assembled almost everything in Belgium.
    Advantage: small series, great quality control, high-end stuff.

    But the market for high-end trail fatbikes is small, so this year they've been very busy finding Taiwanese companies who could and would make things according to their designs. Affordable frames, 125mm suspension fork, lightweight hubs, UST tires & rims, tubeless kits for 47mm rims... all arriving pretty soon now. If you're in the market for upgradeable to- and performance fatbikes & components, I'd advise you to wait a few weeks. There's some exiting stuff coming up.
    We'll get the prototypes of the new forks next week and we'll take them straight into the mountains for some serious testing.

  38. #38
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    Hadley vs Hope

    Iíve had pretty bad luck with Hope hubs for summer use. Multiple broken pawls, crap bearings right out of the box, problems with play in the front hub that never was resolved even after going back and forth with Hope on replacing this part and that partÖ

    I have really only used Hadleys in cold, dry winter conditions, so they have seen less abuse than the Hopes, but they have been very reliable, but not without their small issues.

    All that said, given the difference in price and weight and availability Iíd probably still try the Hopes over the Hadleys unless I was doing some expedition or something where I really needed be sure about reliability, then Iíd spend the extra cash on the Hadleys.


    165mm hubs? Thatís so 2006. Whatís the point? The future is ~190mm

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    ...Iíve had pretty bad luck with Hope hubs for summer use. Multiple broken pawls, crap bearings right out of the box, problems with play in the front hub that never was resolved even after going back and forth with Hope on replacing this part and that partÖ..
    On the other hand, I've never had any problem with my Hope hubs, and spec them on all my bikes. However, I'm a fairly conservative rider - carry the bike over deep water, etc.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    165mm hubs? Thatís so 2006. Whatís the point? The future is ~190mm
    Soon them Alaskan fatbikes will resemble the back end of those choppers I see on Discovery Channel.
    I recently talked to a guy about the 135offset-165-170 discussion. He likened it to the BB standard evolution: we were all perfectly happy with the square taper Shimano cartridges until industry types decided Isis was the next best thing. Then Isis was "passť" and along came the next standard...
    Now up to 190mm... sigh... what's the spin ?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Soon them Alaskan fatbikes will resemble the back end of those choppers I see on Discovery Channel.
    I recently talked to a guy about the 135offset-165-170 discussion. He likened it to the BB standard evolution: we were all perfectly happy with the square taper Shimano cartridges until industry types decided Isis was the next best thing. Then Isis was "passť" and along came the next standard...
    Now up to 190mm... sigh... what's the spin ?
    135 standard for fatbikes works with a 17.5 offset = 170 non offset
    135 with 17.5 offset or 170 non offset works great up to a certain size tire and rim, but lots of folks want bigger so a wider hub, offset crank, frame with more offset, or some combination of those is required like the Moonlander. People were using 165 on symmetrical frames because 170 wasnít available back in the day, but less than ideal for chain to tire rub on big tire rim combos and chainline with most of the 100mm cranks. Just donít see why somebody would choose to go 165 now a days. Maybe Iím missing something though?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    135 standard for fatbikes works with a 17.5 offset = 170 non offset
    135 with 17.5 offset or 170 non offset works great up to a certain size tire and rim, but lots of folks want bigger so a wider hub, offset crank, frame with more offset, or some combination of those is required like the Moonlander. People were using 165 on symmetrical frames because 170 wasnít available back in the day, but less than ideal for chain to tire rub on big tire rim combos and chainline with most of the 100mm cranks. Just donít see why somebody would choose to go 165 now a days. Maybe Iím missing something though?
    165 is basically obsolete at this point, and most of what was/is available is quite heavy and is thru-axle mount. Not sure why Sandman stuck with that spacing. However, my "165 mm" Sandman frame accepts a 170 hub with no trouble.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    135 standard for fatbikes works with a 17.5 offset = 170 non offset
    135 with 17.5 offset or 170 non offset works great up to a certain size tire and rim, but lots of folks want bigger so a wider hub, offset crank, frame with more offset, or some combination of those is required like the Moonlander. People were using 165 on symmetrical frames because 170 wasnít available back in the day, but less than ideal for chain to tire rub on big tire rim combos and chainline with most of the 100mm cranks. Just donít see why somebody would choose to go 165 now a days. Maybe Iím missing something though?
    You bring up an interesting point there: people want bigger tires & wider rims. But at the current prices (those tires cost more than what I pay for a brand A/T tire for my Land Cruiser !!) the enthousiasm might be short lived...
    Ofcourse 150mm rims will offer more float, 220mm hubs and 125mm BB a better chainline to go along, and 250$ 6-inch tires still acceptable weight. With yet another frame to accept all that, because your old one is hopelessly outdated by the time you unpacked the box...

    But do we really want to go there ?

    A 165mm width frame does just fine with 80mm rims and 4.8" tires. With some tweaking of the drivetrain and the right frametube forms it even does just fine with hundies. The newer Sandman frames go along that line, instead of entering in the "more-is-better" arms race they choose to perfect their current design: lighter, more tire clearance, stiffer, UST solutions, affordable sus fork... which, by the way, has 122mm clearance between fork legs, so OK for 80mm/4.8" combos.

    That way their current customers can upgrade/update older bikes or buy a new one in the confidence that it won't be outdated a few months later by some marketing guys or the next expensive fad or extreme use reserved for the happy few.

    But if you want to put in a 170mm rear hub: just go ahead... plenty to choose from and they all fit. You'll just buy more grams, more flex and less than a cog-width extra at the rear...

    Let's also not forget those Sandman bikes are essentially designed to go fast and efficiently on "summer" mountain and coastal trails. Being able to run hundies is more of a pleasant side effect than a goal.

  44. #44
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    Caminoloco.-
    please let us know when those hubs are available, I want a pair of those red ones for my hoggar

  45. #45
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    421
    Caminoloco.-

    You mean that the flame fork can take 4.8" tires with the original rim in the Hoggar?
    (do not give me more ideas...)

  46. #46
    Harrumph
    Reputation: G-reg's Avatar
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    Jan 2004
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    1,600
    I'm impressed with the Fatsnos, though I only have 40mi on them. I've been looking into the compatability with Hope's axle conversion kits. A 12x142 maxle front hub could be nice

    I was going to use the 616's because I like centerlock disc's, if they were cup and cone I'd be sold. But the budget didn't really have the funds for them, and they aren't too much lighter.

    I saw the 9zero7s in the flesh for the first time a few days ago, the fit and finish were really nice. And the bearings felt super smooth right out of the box. They are listed as 238g front / 368g rear.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  47. #47
    Harrumph
    Reputation: G-reg's Avatar
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    Woah, double post
    Last edited by G-reg; 11-24-2012 at 07:45 AM. Reason: dbl pst
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  48. #48
    I'm a Target Too.
    Reputation: cendres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    190
    I've got about 50 miles on my Hopes and I'm really happy with them, too. I wish the freehub was a bit less obnoxious, but the solid engagement makes it a lot more tolerable.

  49. #49
    Harrumph
    Reputation: G-reg's Avatar
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    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,600
    I rebuilt my Hopes out of the box with Lubriplate (my favorite cold wx grease). That toned them down a bit, and they have gotten quieter over those few miles.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  50. #50
    I'm a Target Too.
    Reputation: cendres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    190
    I may follow suit. Any drag issues after doing this? I'm wuss and don't generally ride when it's colder than -10įF.

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