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  1. #1
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    Groomed Trails Yes or No?

    Should we legislate for groomed trails or just stick to venturing out on our own? I say there is room for both what do you think? Oh and should 29+ be allowed on groomed trails and how does the contact patch compare to a 3.8 at low psi?

    Interview: How to Build a Fatbike Trail with the Central Wisconsin Offroad Cycling Coalition

  2. #2
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    Maybe you should be trying to get what we have in Scotland.

    Open access to the countryside.

    There's no freedom if there's no freedom.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Maybe you should be trying to get what we have in Scotland.

    Open access to the countryside.

    There's no freedom if there's no freedom.
    That would be awesome but I think it would start a civil war trying

    So VB would you ride a groomed system as well as your normal trekking?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Maybe you should be trying to get what we have in Scotland.

    Open access to the countryside.

    There's no freedom if there's no freedom.
    You take that back America Hater. America has all the freedom. ALL. OF. IT.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    How does a 29+ 3.0" contact patch compare to a 26" wheel 3.8" at low psi?
    This is what I would like to know.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    That would be awesome but I think it would start a civil war trying

    So VB would you ride a groomed system as well as your normal trekking?
    I'm just down the road from velobike and I would ride anywhere - groomed or not.

  7. #7
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    Our local S.B.R. Popularized in the cold rolled videos is more of a spaghetti bowl of both groomed and non groomed and snowshoe trails. We like and ride both, but temps play a big part in the trails being rideable.

    More so then contact patch, we dictate that if you sink an 1" lower your pressure. If you can't let anymore air out then you shouldn't ride.

  8. #8
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    I think there is room for both. If I think about it in the context of the trails in my area there is no way that we could groom all of them. On top of that, I think many of the XC skiers and snowshoers would revolt if we did because getting out on the ungroomed stuff is what so many of them love to do around here.

    If I had my say we would groom some of the trails that don't get much, if any, winter use and leave the rest of the trails to be naturally packed. That way we wouldn't take anything away from the other user groups and we would still have both options. This is actually the approach that I hope to be working on during the off season with our local trails organization and the land management groups.

  9. #9
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    I went out riding this weekend and came across this exact example. The trail system I was on is nothing but hills, and seeing as how we have a fairly deep snow pack, I am very thankful that the majority of them were groomed.

    I climbed to the top of one of the larger hills to find that a few snow shoe'erz had bypassed a very cool section of the trial and taken a no-fun short cut back down the hill. I assume they did this because that part of the trial often drifts over, and seeing as how it is tricky even in the summer, riding it in the winter is an adventure. Being the typical fatbikerer, I would not accept the fact that the trail was bypassed, and decided to make my way through the drifts. Well, long story short it was mostly hike-a-bike, and was happy to be back on the groomed trials a short time later.

    imho, both are good.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I went out riding this weekend and came across this exact example. The trail system I was on is nothing but hills, and seeing as how we have a fairly deep snow pack, I am very thankful that the majority of them were groomed.

    I climbed to the top of one of the larger hills to find that a few snow shoe'erz had bypassed a very cool section of the trial and taken a no-fun short cut back down the hill. I assume they did this because that part of the trial often drifts over, and seeing as how it is tricky even in the summer, riding it in the winter is an adventure. Being the typical fatbikerer, I would not accept the fact that the trail was bypassed, and decided to make my way through the drifts. Well, long story short it was mostly hike-a-bike, and was happy to be back on the groomed trials a short time later.

    imho, both are good.
    I still need to get over there and ride!! Let me know if you are ever in the Wausau area and I will show you around Sunny Vale.

    bOb

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    I still need to get over there and ride!! Let me know if you are ever in the Wausau area and I will show you around Sunny Vale.

    bOb
    Yes you do!! Do they close underdown and 9mile in da winter? I could maybe think about getting away from home for part of the day, but our 2 yo and 1 month'r keeping papa busy.

  12. #12
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    9 mile is shut down in the winter because of long wooden pointy things
    makes no sense
    I am slow therefore I am

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Yes you do!! Do they close underdown and 9mile in da winter? I could maybe think about getting away from home for part of the day, but our 2 yo and 1 month'r keeping papa busy.
    Yeah like BO said 9 mile is closed but depending on the snow conditions the Underdown can be epic but I would need to recruit some help for that one as I'm still not up for that hard of riding.

  14. #14
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    Here in Canmore ab, they have guidelines, you pay a trail fee, they groom some trails, but it comes with rules like no tires less then 3.5"

    http://www.albertaparks.ca/media/468...info_sheet.pdf

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    That would be awesome but I think it would start a civil war trying

    So VB would you ride a groomed system as well as your normal trekking?
    I'm happy so long as there is an empty track in front of me, and I'm just as happy with the bike on my shoulder. The beaten path doesn't take you to the more interesting places.
    Last edited by Velobike; 01-22-2014 at 03:10 AM.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  16. #16
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    I could ride over 100km of groomed/semi groomed MTB trails here from my front door with minimal fire track or road between the trailheads, we have 100's of kms of beaches and Dunes, also many 1000's of kms of "make your own" way crown land.

    Im with Velobike.... dont really care, just happy to have the health to be out doing something i love.

    I also like seeing others out riding the trails.
    Ti O'Beast
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    Dirty Disco CX

  17. #17
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    Growing up riding 9 mile and Standing Rocks and Iola in the summer, it sounds like fun biking in the winter back in the home land.

    Here in Alaska outside of Anchorage many of our multi use trails are groomed by volunteer snowmachine* clubs. This funding comes directly from the $5 it costs to register a snowmachine with the DMV. So the DMV collects the registration then hands those funds over to Division Parks and Outdoor Recreation (DPOR) to administer the SnoTrac Grooming Pool. The Volunteer clubs apply for the trails they want to groom and the citizen advisory board reviews the applications and recommends what trails get funded to groom. The SnoTrac funding is well below the amount of requests that come in to groom, and there has been talk for years of raising the DMV snowmachine registration from $5 a year, but with all user fees and perceived taxes, this has not happened. So the winter trail mileage will continue to fall, as trails are cut out of the pool. They quit taking new trail applications to the pool years ago. I would love to see an alternative sticker or pass that non-snowmachiers could purchase that would go into the Grooming Pool. These non-snowmachiners (dog mushers, xc-skiers, fat bikers, snowshoers) benefit from the groomed trails but have no way of supporting them.
    In the local municipalities and communities like Anchorage, Seward, Valdez, Cooper Landing, Sutton and Homer they do have Nordic Ski Clubs that also groom trails and collect funding from memberships and other forms of grants. But their trail systems are just that designed around the primary use of xc-skiing.
    DPOR (state parks) does not even list fat biking in a Winter non-motorized section of there website. Winter (non-motorized) Trails of Chugach State Park, Alaska State Parks
    But you can get a permit from DPOR for the Middle Fork Trail as well as there definition of a fat bike.
    To distinguish between regular mountain bikes we have created a working definition for Fat Tire Bikes as follows. A Fat Tire Bike is defined as a self-propelled bicycle created for cycling on soft, unstable surfaces. The tire width is 3.5 or greater and tire pressure is less than 20 pounds per square inch ground pressure.
    Yes we need more people advocating winter cycling and Fat Biking.

    *snowmachine= Snowmobile, sled, snow go, or brap brap.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I'm happy so long as there is an empty track in front of me, and I'm just as happy with the bike on my shoulder. The beaten path doesn't take you to the more interesting places.
    To be fair, yer posting from the UK, right? not a whole lot of deep snow that needs to be groomed to be rideable over there. in winter you kinda need an at least somewhat beaten path for a fatbike to function.

    The issue at hand is that XC ski trails are often groomed by cities/towns/villages but bikes (and hikers, snowshoers, etc) are asked/told to stay off so as not to destroy the groomed trails for skiers. As a skier, I understand their point- nothing like skiing along and coming to a section where some schmuck has completely obliterated the classic tracks...

    It's not much different than a city/town/village telling people they can't have a picnic or play frisbee on the city owned golf course because that would interfere with golfers, despite the fact that most of us don't actually golf and it would be nice to use that big pretty park.

    I've seen some pretty awesome narrow groomed trails that were definitely set up to be multi-use- too narrow for skate skiers but with a groomed section to the left of the classic tracks that's well used by hikers, snowshoers and me on my bike.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Maybe you should be trying to get what we have in Scotland.

    Open access to the countryside.

    There's no freedom if there's no freedom.
    That sounds great, but freedom requires responsibility. We lack that here in the colonies as well.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    I still need to get over there and ride!! Let me know if you are ever in the Wausau area and I will show you around Sunny Vale.

    bOb
    Yeah, I was there for the Badger State Games, and I want to offer a great big THANK YOU, bOb, for the wonderful work you did on those trails! I wish I lived closer!
    - Mark Ehlers
    The Prodigal Cyclist

  21. #21
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    We have access to many groomed xc trails as well as a lot of singletracks that get packed down by snowshoers , hikers and dog walkers. When the singletracks are in good condition I try to stay on them as much as I can, only using the groomed trails as connectors. It is more a matter of the trails being more fun, than anyone *****ing about bikes on the groomed track. My tax money goes toward grooming these trails and they are open to all non motorized users. Picky skiers can pay to play elsewhere if they don't want to share.
    Skinny grooming on singletracks would be great, but the best way to do that is with snowshoes. Nothing that could pull a sled will fit on these trails. I have considered getting a list of riders who would be willing to snowshoe pack certain trails after a new snow, to make them rideable sooner.

  22. #22
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    I've spent my time running rivers and just venturing, heck some of the best times I've ever had on a bike. Now give me fast flowy groomed single track and I'm a happy camper but there is still room in my heart for an occasional adventure if time permits.
    Last edited by bdundee; 01-22-2014 at 09:17 PM.
    And I love beer!!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DITCHMAN View Post
    Yeah like BO said 9 mile is closed but depending on the snow conditions the Underdown can be epic but I would need to recruit some help for that one as I'm still not up for that hard of riding.
    Underdown is a challenge I take it? If I were to make a trip over to that area in the summer, should I try out underdown? Ridden 9 mile a few times now...and dig it!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Underdown is a challenge I take it? If I were to make a trip over to that area in the summer, should I try out underdown? Ridden 9 mile a few times now...and dig it!
    Yeah The Underdown is an azz kicker!! Let me know when you are coming over.
    And I love beer!!

  25. #25
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    Groomed Trails Yes or No?

    Groomed single track or double track in Cuyuna. 20 inches of cord or 4 feet. Nice to have both options available to the Fatbiking community here in Mn ; )



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